should I let him go or should I fight for my love?

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by joyjoy

I really dunno whats wrong with this idea.

What is wrong with the idea is that it is all about YOU, not about him. You are using him as a means to an end, in a way: if only you could be allowed to love him again and treat him right this time, then YOU could prove to YOURSELF that you are a good person.

Well, it just doesn't work that way. You've had your chance with him and, quite frankly, you blew it. The mistake in itself isn't bad, but please learn from it and move forward. Understand that you can never again be that stranger that falls in love with this particular guy for the first time - not in your mind and certainly not in his.

You and him are over. Let it rest. Move on. Give yourself the time to fall in love with yourself first - that is the only path to true happiness.

[joyjoy]

Its really not that encouraging to hear all these words, to be frank. I finally got some motivation in my life, and then it all disppear again. I have been crying for 3 months without doing anything, yes, also having some professional help.
There are so many successful cases around. Why everyone here has to tell me that i am the one who is doomed already? All i need is some suggestions on dealing with him.
He is the one contacting me initially last weekend, and he is the one who tells me that he still likes me very very much, and he still cares me a lot. What am i supposed to think? I cannot even have a bit hopes up.
I am sorry if I soud harsh. It's just really not such a nice feeling that when you finally think through sth. and decided to put it into practice, everyone keeps on telling you, no, no use, you will not achieve anything no matter what you try.
Even in those popular American episodes, people can go back to each other years later. Why does everyone has to harshly tell me that no matter what i do, it's useless!!! Anyone here can really fortell the future??? How???
I asked for specific advices on what to do now. Yes, leaving him alone. I did it. He called me, told me he has been thinking about what i have been doing recently, and he asked his friends to bring me to lunch or sth. I am a human being, am i allowed to hope up a bit in this situation?
Thanks!

[Angela]

joyjoy, I'm sorry that you are feeling the pain of thwarted love. I know how much it hurts. What you are missing is that we are not telling you things are hopeless. On the contrary, we're telling you that you have all the power in the world to build a life you love! It may sound harsh to you because we're also telling you that it's irresponsible to pin all your hopes for happiness, satisfaction and fulfillment on one guy, and a guy who has told you your relationship is over, to boot!

Of course you are free to continue hoping and pining for this fellow. But what you're doing is marrying an outcome -- you are having thoughts that there is only one way in the world that will satisfy you: you and he must get back together. These are thoughts that are stingy, both with him and with yourself, and you're not likely to hear on a personal development board encouragement to be stingy!

You may very well get back together with him. And if you do, while still in this state of pinning all your hopes on him, he'll leave you again because he'll feel stifled by your neediness and your lack of responsibility for your own satisfaction and fulfillment. It will hurt more next time, because you will continue to bring your old pain with you, over and over again. You will continue to weigh him (or the next guy) down with all your needs. That is too much to ask of anyone!

I encourage you to take 100% responsibility for your own happiness, satisfaction and fulfillment, and trust that he will do the same in his own life. That way, if you ever do encounter him again, you'll be coming together as partners who realize that each must provide for her own needs, and give the other the freedom to do the same.

Trust and freedom are missing from everything you've described so far, and as far as I'm concerned, without trust and freedom, there is no love at all.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by joyjoy

Even in those popular American episodes, people can go back to each other years later.

Unfortunately, reality does not mirror the fictional world of American TV - or at least not that often.

Please understand that I am not telling you these things just to make you feel bad or out of disdain. Quite the contrary, I'm trying - as Angela does - to steer you towards a path of happiness, not pain. Part of that is because I know, from personal experience, how much pain comes with the years and years of waiting for a relationship gone wrong to turn right. Trust me when I say that is not a path you want to tread - there are far, far happier ways to live out your life.

love,
Jim.

[votoshka]

JoyJoy, I understand where you are coming from, I really do. And I understand your motivation to change yourself so that you can again be a woman that your ex boyfriend wants to be with.

yes, it IS possible that you could end up with him again in the future, but you can't push for it. You have to let what happens happen...

Have you ever heard the saying, "If you love something, let it go. If it's truly yours it will come back to you."

I think that is what you have to do. You have to let him go with love. If the two of you are truly meant to be together, then one day you will be. If not, you will find someone else who will suit you even better!

It's good that you're working on yourself. But do it for you, not for anyone else!!

[joyjoy]

Originally Posted by Angela

joyjoy, I'm sorry that you are feeling the pain of thwarted love. I know how much it hurts. What you are missing is that we are not telling you things are hopeless. On the contrary, we're telling you that you have all the power in the world to build a life you love! It may sound harsh to you because we're also telling you that it's irresponsible to pin all your hopes for happiness, satisfaction and fulfillment on one guy, and a guy who has told you your relationship is over, to boot!

Of course you are free to continue hoping and pining for this fellow. But what you're doing is marrying an outcome -- you are having thoughts that there is only one way in the world that will satisfy you: you and he must get back together. These are thoughts that are stingy, both with him and with yourself, and you're not likely to hear on a personal development board encouragement to be stingy!

You may very well get back together with him. And if you do, while still in this state of pinning all your hopes on him, he'll leave you again because he'll feel stifled by your neediness and your lack of responsibility for your own satisfaction and fulfillment. It will hurt more next time, because you will continue to bring your old pain with you, over and over again. You will continue to weigh him (or the next guy) down with all your needs. That is too much to ask of anyone!

I encourage you to take 100% responsibility for your own happiness, satisfaction and fulfillment, and trust that he will do the same in his own life. That way, if you ever do encounter him again, you'll be coming together as partners who realize that each must provide for her own needs, and give the other the freedom to do the same.

Trust and freedom are missing from everything you've described so far, and as far as I'm concerned, without trust and freedom, there is no love at all.

Dear Angela,

Thanks so much for all your words. It makes me cry.
My computer crashed, and thats why i cannot reply in the last two days.
You are so right about me in your words, even though you dont even know me. Very freaky!
Anyways, iam really really touched by all your words and suggestion. I used to be such an independent girl among all Chinese. Working, travelling, managing my own stuff on my own, since when i started to change to such a crying child and rely all my happiness on one guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes. I am now working for my new job, my second Master in Sweden, learning new language, losing weight. I will use my own power to creat my own happiness. I will definitly do.
And yes, you are so right. If i behave the same like before, the second guy, or any other guy will scream and run away again.
I am not going to contact him or anything for a really long time. I will not think about contacting him again. Leave everything to him and to time.
Thanks so much again for your help. It does mean so much to me.

[joyjoy]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Unfortunately, reality does not mirror the fictional world of American TV - or at least not that often.

Please understand that I am not telling you these things just to make you feel bad or out of disdain. Quite the contrary, I'm trying - as Angela does - to steer you towards a path of happiness, not pain. Part of that is because I know, from personal experience, how much pain comes with the years and years of waiting for a relationship gone wrong to turn right. Trust me when I say that is not a path you want to tread - there are far, far happier ways to live out your life.

love,
Jim.

Dear Jim,

I never thought for one second that you want to make me feel bad or out of disdain. I know that there is a reason you believe this. Yes. I can see very clearly that you and Angela are trying so hard to let me realize what im stalked in now.
As my reply just now, I will now leave everything to him, and to time. Let everything works out itself.
I am now doing all sorts of things to get happiness. I believe that i have power to create my own happiness. It's gonna to be hard for me to make a living for a Chinese girl in North Europe. However, I will try my best.

[joyjoy]

Originally Posted by votoshka

JoyJoy, I understand where you are coming from, I really do. And I understand your motivation to change yourself so that you can again be a woman that your ex boyfriend wants to be with.

yes, it IS possible that you could end up with him again in the future, but you can't push for it. You have to let what happens happen...

Have you ever heard the saying, "If you love something, let it go. If it's truly yours it will come back to you."

I think that is what you have to do. You have to let him go with love. If the two of you are truly meant to be together, then one day you will be. If not, you will find someone else who will suit you even better!

It's good that you're working on yourself. But do it for you, not for anyone else!!

Dear Votoshka,

"If you love something, let it go. If it's truly yours it will come back to you."
I never heard about this sentence before....Is it true?????
I will remember it.
Maybe working on myself is also one way to work for the future. Who knows!

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by joyjoy

I am now doing all sorts of things to get happiness. I believe that i have power to create my own happiness. It's gonna to be hard for me to make a living for a Chinese girl in North Europe. However, I will try my best.

You absolutely have that power! And I am quite sure you will find your way. Never give up believing in yourself!

Jim.

[uberinquisitive]

joyjoy, I was an American making a living in Tokyo for a year - it was really an amazing experience!

I didn't speak the language (and most Japanese can't speak English). I didn't know how to get an apartment. I knew no one. The culture shock was pretty extreme. However, I always saw it as an adventure.

Personally, I would love to be working in Sweden. You're young, single, in Europe...it's glamorous!

[joyjoy]

Thanks, Jim. uberinquisitive, I am sure you will manage Tokyo. It's always easier for a Westerner to manage a life in Asian countries, but not always that easy for a girl like me in Northern Europe. They have very strict immigration rules. Denmark is just ridiculous in this way. Some married couples are forced to be separate sometimes, and this is something the newspapers talk a lot in Denmark.

[joyjoy]

Another thing still disturbs me a lot is that, in one of his email I posted before, he said, the harsh truth is that he is not in any relation with any other girl. However, he told me on the phone he started to date another girl right after we split up. In his emails to my friend, he wrote again, no matter how he tried, to be honest or lying, I cannot accept is. I am very disturbed by thinking about it. However, there is absolutely no way for me to know whether he really has a girl or not. I don't know what i should do on this issue. It came to my mind back and forth and again and again.
I by chance saw someone write in this board, that long distance relation rarely rarely works. So dissporinting!!! He will stay in that isolated island for another one year and half, and I probably have to leave Sweden by then due to my visa. Such a destiny!

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by joyjoy

However, there is absolutely no way for me to know whether he really has a girl or not. I don't know what i should do on this issue. It came to my mind back and forth and again and again.

Why are you torturing yourself with these things? Maybe he has another girl, maybe he doesn't, I can't say, but it's clear that you're not doing yourself any favours by holding out hope.

Please please please... move on. Remember your time with him with fondness and warmth, a time where you grew, a time where you learned. Now that time is done, and you can carry those memories and lessons with you into your next relationship.

[joyjoy]

However, I always am disturbed also by his letter. why he wrote me such a letter 2 weeks before breaking up, if so, why he told me that he planned on this for a long time. I am sorry, but it's really the most difficult part I am trying to get over with now:

"You cannot possibly imagine it. You cannot possibly imagine, what difference you have done to my life. I honestly don’t think you know, but you, and you alone have changed everything about me, about what I think and how I act. I have told you before, and it is still true, when I think about my life, the dividing point is when I meet you. For me, there is life before I meat you and after. You are the single most important person in my life, and everything I do, I do with you in mind, thinking about how it will affect you, what you will say about it. My love for you is that strong. Whatever happens, whatever the future brings nobody knows. But what I do know is, that I will always always always love you and nothing will ever change that, and that a smile from you will make my heart smile for the rest of the day.
I love you sugar, only you and always you, I am sorry if I don’t say it so much, but that is truly how I feel."

Only two weeks!!!!

[joyjoy]

It really hurts by thinking that we will be friends forever. No. Impossible! I just cannot do that.
If i cannot win him back, we will never have any contact again!

If I am still having that bit hope and wanna win him back after my change, wanna know how long is a good time to pick up the connection again?!
Three months? Half a year?

[cdn2wheeler]

Look, here's the deal.

You can choose to wallow in your pain. That's your right. Whether doing so is productive or not is another matter. (Do you think HE'S wallowing in pain and loss? Probably not.)

Or you can choose to move forward with an open heart and gratitude.

Choice is yours.

[JimOfferman]

I have to agree with cdn here. You just have to make a choice between wallowing in past hurts or moving forward and finding new life and new joy.

I think you already know which path I would choose...

Strength and happiness,
Jim.

[uberinquisitive]

Originally Posted by joyjoy

It's always easier for a Westerner to manage a life in Asian countries, but not always that easy for a girl like me in Northern Europe. They have very strict immigration rules. Denmark is just ridiculous in this way. Some married couples are forced to be separate sometimes, and this is something the newspapers talk a lot in Denmark.

1. How do you know it's easier for a Westerner? Just because of immigration laws? Japan has some of the STRICTEST immigration laws I've experienced.

2. What do you mean "not always that easy for a girl like me in Northern Europe"? You obviously can read and write and speak English. I couldn't do any of that in Japanese! And Japanese don't speak English well. Riding the taxi was an adventure.

I really suggest you try to count your blessings. Even though I could barely buy food in Japan (I knew no one, didn't know how the money system worked, etc.), I felt so happy to be young, single, and glamorous!

So many young people would love to work abroad...you are missing out on a very amazing opportunity...enjoy this time.

And also...everyone in the world experiences pain and heartbreak. Not just you. You have your health, your family, a roof over your head. Count your blessings.

[Rose of Cairo]

Hi Joyjoy,

these two letters are not a contradiction. I guess he really did love you very much and you were very important for him. Sounds like he really felt what he was writing. But some day, he took the decision to leave you because this relationship was not working. Maybe he had known that for a long time and thought it again and again, but still wanted to make it work because of his feelings. Till the day he finally realized that he doesn't want to be pushed any longer. Two weeks is a long time. It takes two seconds to make a decision.

You can love someone AND leave them you know. When the relationship doesn't work, for instance.

I don't know how this is in China, but here in Europe, behaving like you do is abusive, unhealthy and exhausting. When you're in a relationship with an abusive person, leaving this person is the best thing you can do, even if you love her. That's what he did.

He made it very clear to you that he wants to break up. If you keep contacting him, that's called stalking and is illegal. So don't do it.

Keeping thinking about it without contacting him isn't good for you either. Of course he still cares for you, but it's over all the same. To be able to have a healthy relationship (with him or with someone else) you'll need to work on yourself first. And when you'll have worked on yourself, you won't want him anymore So don't look back.

You know, when I read your posts, I think that it's a great thing that happened to you. You were dependent on him like a baby and now look, you're learning a lot, you work, you learn to live alone in Europe, you go to a counselor.... Hey that's fantastic!!

Don't worry, there are thousands of wonderful men out there who will love you. Just take care of yourself for now. And love yourself

[joyjoy]

Thanks for all of you!!!!!!!!!!
I have been reading what you guys write to me again and again. It helps a lot. It does! It really does!!!!
I already lost 4 kg in one week.
I run 6 km everyday. Yesterday, I even run 9 km. My friends joked that I can run back to Beijing next year
PS: After I talked so much about us, mainly my fault, anybody thinks that the way he broke up with me is nice? Called me from half a globe away and then stopped all the connection with me. Of course I had no clue whats going on. 3 days ago telling me love me till he die is a truth like there are 9 million bicycles in Beijing, and then overnight, puff!!!!!!!!! Do I have any supporters here, I mean, think I am not that crazy by flying to that isolated island by asking him. I really think a 3 year relation parterner deserve a face to face break up, right? Or its just ok that he break up like this in Western culture? Its just so ... harsh. Only myself knows how painful it is, and how many nighmares I had in the last months. Its easy for everyone to tell me to move on, however, only myself knows how many times I cry everyday, even now. I cried when I was running, or mopping the floor.
I suggest the guys, never break up your long-term parter from a phone call thoudsand of kilos away, its really too harsh!!! A girl cannot put up that much.

[uberinquisitive]

joyjoy...

If my boyfriend did all the things you did, I would break up with him by email and tell him to leave me alone or else I'd call the police.

Honestly, he was extremely nice, even after you stalked him at his workplace. I would have definitely called the police, and filed a restraining order against you.

[joyjoy]

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

joyjoy...

If my boyfriend did all the things you did, I would break up with him by email and tell him to leave me alone or else I'd call the police.

Honestly, he was extremely nice, even after you stalked him at his workplace. I would have definitely called the police, and filed a restraining order against you.

He was extremely nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You just make me wanna win him back again now Of course I will change myself first!!!!!!!!!!!

[JimOfferman]

joyjoy,

You just keep going round in circles... every time I see even the slighest hint of you moving past this in one post, there invariably follows another post where you claim to want your ex back sooner rather than later. You are not helping yourself, nor are you increasing whatever slim chance there is to ever get back with him by being stuck in this cycle. I can't think of more ways to say this to you, so I am just going to stop after these final words:

Break the cycle. Move on. Find happiness within yourself.

I really hope you'll find your way eventually - good luck!
Jim.

[joyjoy]

Thanks, Jim.
He gave me an email 2 days ago.

Hi ***
How are you doing? I hope everything is still going well for you. I know that I must seem very very harsh to you, and I really wish that I did not have to be, but you why I had to stop talking to you for a while. Hopefully you can understand why, and accept the way things are now. You are my best friend, and I hope all the best for you in the world. I think a lot about how you are doing, every day, and whether or not we can ever have a friendly relationship. If you don't ever want to talk to me again, or email me I can understand but I really hope that we can be friends. I really really do.

Sincerely,
****

Well, what I can say? What should I do now?
I was thinking he is still emotional with me, and i was thinking should I send my diaries to him, with all the wrtings of the past happiness? Too silly and useless. Iam sure you will say that!

[joyjoy]

How on earth can we be best friends again!!!!!!!
His words just broke my heart again and made me cry again !!!!!!

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by joyjoy

I was thinking he is still emotional with me, and i was thinking should I send my diaries to him, with all the wrtings of the past happiness? Too silly and useless. Iam sure you will say that!

It's not only silly and useless, it would be disrespectful. That would be an attempt to gain him back by playing with his feelings, ignoring his very clear statement that it's over.

Originally Posted by joyjoy

How on earth can we be best friends again!!!!!!!
His words just broke my heart again and made me cry again !!!!!!

You don't have to be friends with him. If you don't like the idea of being friends without having a relationship, that's ok, that's your right. Just tell him not to contact you again.

I understand that it hurts you to have contact with him without a relationship. You don't have to do what he wants. Just break up with him You'll feel better.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I agree with Rose of course. I know how tough it is to have contact with someone you are not "over" but thinking this is an opening to restart a romantic relationship would be to misunderstand his motives in my opinion.

I can see that he cares about your wellbeing. I believe he may even miss you, but that is not the same as wanting to renew a relationship.

He's told you what he wants very directly -- that is friendship. I can see how hard that idea hits you and how badly it makes you feel, so I would suggest you write him back and let him know that you appreciate his offer of friendship, but that since you are pained by not being in a relationship it is best for you if you cut out contact for now. Please trust me when I say that everything in this situation will be easier if you just stop communicating with him. For now, possibly forever, depending on the work you do in yourself and where that takes you.

Keep your chin up. Let him know that you care very much about him, but that it would be best if you don't have contact and then get to work on taking care of yourself, taking responsibility for your life and making it awesome.

[joyjoy]

He kept on writing me emails last week, 4 emails in one week in a row, keep on asking me to contact him, and be his best friends. Telling that he wants me to know that he thinks of me everyday, and thinks about that whether we will ever have any friendly relationship one day. He told me i am the only one in this world has been the closest to his life.

I am so distubed by all his emails last week. Its like you are finally fine. And his emails remind me that we are not together anymore.

This afternoon, I got another Danish friends email, telling me they have met him two days ago for a supper, coz he went to London for business trip and had a stopover at CPH airport. That Danish friend told me how they had a great night together and they just want me know that they treat both of us as friends still.

I was so hurt by all these stuff, crying again for the whole afternoon. I dont know what i should do now. My Swedish friend told me he is the worst Jerk she has ever seen, and she got so sick of his meails telling me again and again to be his best friends. WHy he has to remind me of the fact that we are not together anymore again and again, or is it because there maybe a chance for us, and i should give it a last goal?

I did not reply the first 2 emails from him. And he wrote to my friends back in China asking her to inform you about me, and he then wrote me another 2 emails in a row. However, he did not even tell me he is in CPH while he met the other two friends. I was really really hurt. I am. I am so upset that I ... came here for any support, coz i am living alone here in CPH. It is really a bad time for me. No friends around, coz i am so depressed and had no mood to meet any friends. I used to have the ability to make friends from all over the world before

[uberinquisitive]

You know what might help?

Print out all his emails. And then burn them. As you watch it turn to ash, you will feel a bit more free.

Are you seeing a psychologist? You must see one at least once a week. This is a priority! Your life will feel much brighter with a professional to help you. I understand how it feels to be all alone in a foreign country. Get a great therapist as soon as possible.

[richie]

Originally Posted by joyjoy

He kept on writing me emails last week, 4 emails in one week in a row, keep on asking me to contact him, and be his best friends. Telling that he wants me to know that he thinks of me everyday, and thinks about that whether we will ever have any friendly relationship one day. He told me i am the only one in this world has been the closest to his life.

I am so distubed by all his emails last week. Its like you are finally fine. And his emails remind me that we are not together anymore.

This afternoon, I got another Danish friends email, telling me they have met him two days ago for a supper, coz he went to London for business trip and had a stopover at CPH airport. That Danish friend told me how they had a great night together and they just want me know that they treat both of us as friends still.

I was so hurt by all these stuff, crying again for the whole afternoon. I dont know what i should do now. My Swedish friend told me he is the worst Jerk she has ever seen, and she got so sick of his meails telling me again and again to be his best friends. WHy he has to remind me of the fact that we are not together anymore again and again, or is it because there maybe a chance for us, and i should give it a last goal?

I did not reply the first 2 emails from him. And he wrote to my friends back in China asking her to inform you about me, and he then wrote me another 2 emails in a row. However, he did not even tell me he is in CPH while he met the other two friends. I was really really hurt. I am. I am so upset that I ... came here for any support, coz i am living alone here in CPH. It is really a bad time for me. No friends around, coz i am so depressed and had no mood to meet any friends. I used to have the ability to make friends from all over the world before

Hi,
Everyone told you to just leave him which is the most right way to go, but as you're too attached and if you have learned your lesson, you can try this to get him back, but remember even if you did get him back you will have to change tremendously.
You'll have to play with his emotions, and make sure you never loose yours.
He cares about you is 100% sure from his last 4emails/week, now your goal is to make him feel he loves you.
would you like a guy who become all dependent on you and has no self respect of his own?
So your first step is to show him that you don't care much about him but you'll be starting contact with him on IM just for his sake.
was there some guy with whom he was jealous with? tell him that guy called you.
Talk to him like you're happy with your world. you love the climate, sky, birds, read great books and stuff. make him feel a bit emotional but not romantically yet.
Talk to him by showing you have grow'd yourself. talking like a self help guru would also help, but don't overdo.
don't even show slightest emotion of love.
make yourself more beautiful, change hairstyle and loose weight. tell him abt all this indirectly. almost like he asked you, hence you're saying it.
this all would need tremendous emotional control.
After you become a sort of regular on IM or phone, try to avoid phone as there are more chances of you getting emotional on it. avoid his calls sometimes too. avoid your fixed Im talk time too. be a bit careless about him.
Tell him things like the breakup has helped you grow tremendously in life but with great cautious as it should not look like a plea to get back together.
after he gets more and more interested in you, tell abt your some past good experiences together but it should look very innocent recollection almost how we remember the dead one's and incident with them.
By this time he may either drool over you or enough for you to try your last.
if he's back in love, he'll start talking romantically and you just have to go with the flow. and if he doesn't, you have to throw some romantic things in between and change your path even before he says anything.
The more time you take for all this, the more better. don't go too fast.
This all would be difficult to do. I suggest you to follow the path which others suggested, but if you feel almost sucidal, go for this one.

Hope you got the point.
P.S. to all other posters:
I know I got her on the not so good path of going back to her old boy friend. but she's in immense pain. I know this is not the best solution but its almost second to best.