Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

gooboy · 10-14-2007, 11:54 PM

Please help! I have been struggling with this decision for about a year now, and really need to define this to stop feeling divided...

I am male, 27 and have been in a relationship for 3 years now. On the one hand, I have no doubt she is the woman I would chose to be married and to have children with. I love her very much, and we get along with each other very well. She is my 2nd serious relationship but I had many other not so serious, so I knew many women and I am pretty sure when I say that she means that much to me.

On the other hand, I feel a big need to enjoy my youth. I mean going out with my friends, traveling with them, partying (I love to party!), even going out and having sex with other women. I just feel I have not lived everything I should have lived and that this is the best age to do this. I am afraid of being 40 years old and married, looking back and saying "Oh, why didn't I do this and that while it was time to?"

I also feel that if I continue this relationship it will go on until we get married (probably in 2 to 4 years from now), and will feel I have missed my "best time". But if I leave her, only god knows if I will be able to go back to her after my "party time". At the same time I am conscious that after some time being single I will get tired of that and will feel the need to engage into a serious relationship again, probably regretting to have left her in the first place.

I have been suffering a lot from this "self-division" because it is causing me not to be 100% engaged in my relationship and at the same time not respecting my desires. What I need most now is just to feel inner piece regarding these choices...

Your advice or new perspectives will help me a lot! Thanks for having the patience to read all that!

Peace,
Gooboy

Anya · 10-15-2007, 12:25 AM

Hi Gooboy!!!

I am (obviously) a girl, so I'll respond to you how I would feel about this situation from the girl's stand point.

All I've heard so far is....me, me, me ...what about her? Did you think about her? If I would've been in her place, I would rather have a mutual split and go on with my own life. I would never want to be accused of a "stolen" fun youth. No way!
So, please, count her feeling in as well. I hope that was not too harsh.

Good luck!

gooboy · 10-15-2007, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anya

Hi Gooboy!!!

I am (obviously) a girl, so I'll respond to you how I would feel about this situation from the girl's stand point.

All I've heard so far is....me, me, me ...what about her? Did you think about her? If I would've been in her place, I would rather have a mutual split and go on with my own life. I would never want to be accused of a "stolen" fun youth. No way!
So, please, count her feeling in as well. I hope that was not too harsh.

Good luck!

Hi Anya,

I fully agree with you. She is a wonderful person and it is not fair to play with her feelings. This is why I need to take some decision asap. I talk a lot about myself because I am the problem, not she.

It just won't help anything to tell her about all those feelings before deciding anything, don't you think? Otherwise she will just feel horrible and want to break up immediately...

If I were in her place I would maybe give him some limited time to make up his mind (that's exactly what I am struggling with) but on the long run I would not be able to keep the relationship.

Cheers

Lychee · 10-15-2007, 12:49 AM

Enjoy your youth? Who says that you'll live tomorrow (seriously)? Who says your desires are rational and correct? Human desires are not always right. If you know that she's the one you want to marry, then go ahead and marry her. Or let her go and allow her to marry a man who will appreciate her and what she has to offer - a man who doesn't feel like he's missing out on life experiences by being with her.

Mark Lapierre · 10-15-2007, 03:56 AM

We're notoriously bad at figuring out what will make us happy in the future, including a few minutes into the future. So you think you might enjoy yourself more if you don't stick with her. You're probably wrong, and there's no way to know for sure. The best chance you have of finding out is a) do it or b) find other people in a similar situation who are experiencing what you're considering. Find other people who were in a long term relationship, decided to end it so they could party more, then tried to return to a previous relationship. See how happy they are. Then find other people 10-20 years further along; either those who did the same, or those who stuck with their partner.

Inability to forecast aside, ask yourself what you really value. Do the pleasures of a party life really contribute much? Is it really the best use of your time?

But one other thing which may be obvious to you, but which isn't to me, but why can't you party with your girlfriend?

NotesMaeve · 10-15-2007, 06:09 AM

What the hell does sex with other women have to do with the potential of your youth?

m18pak · 10-15-2007, 07:22 AM

Do what Steve suggests, picture yourself a few years from now having take the "party route", and look back and see if you would have still made the same choice.

Rose of Cairo · 10-15-2007, 09:18 AM

Gooboy, there is something I don't understand. Why do you have to choose between the relationship and partying???

ok, having sex with other women might be a problem if you're in a monogamous relationship. But everything else, partying, going out with friends, travelling with friends, doesn't collide with a relationship! Your post sounds like your relationship is holding you back from enjoying your youth! Well I wouldn't want such a relationship... What kind of relationship are you having??? Having a relationship doesn't mean spending all your time with her or spending every evening at home holding her hand... I for my part don't see any problem in having a relationship and partying, going out with others and travelling around at the same time. Even when you have a relationship, you need your private sphere and time to be alone or with your friends anyway. So where's the problem?

About having sex with other women: you said you already had sex with enough women, so you know that's not the key to universal happiness.. I'm wondering what your reason is, because I get a feeling that you're a monogamous guy actually. So what's the reason for your wish? Do you need some positive female feedback and reassurance? In that case, work on your self-esteem. Or is it that you feel a bit caged in your relationship? I guess so, or else you would party and travel around freely. Or are you bored and want some adventures? There are many reasons you could have such a wish. Find it out and fix it. Leaving her and f***ing around will not solve your problem, as your problem is inside of you.

Or in the relationship too. But if this is the case, you'd attract the same in your next relationship anyway, so leaving is not a solution either.

Maybe there is something more general you're wasting in your life? You're not living what you could live now. What is it? Are you sure it's about sex with other women? Is it about partying? Why don't you do it then?? Is it something else? What? Maybe it has nothing to do with your relationship? Why do you think now is your "best time"? Every moment is your best time, even when you're 70.

Live more of what you really want to live, now, in your relationship, that's what I would say. Good luck to you!

danas · 10-15-2007, 09:49 AM

Mind you I know a guy that did just that, they broke up, and he told her if we ever get back together, it will be for good.
Today they are happily married. I think they were in there early 20s (or late teens) when they first broke up.
I guess we never really know the future. Taking risks is part of the game.
Although I agree very much with with Rose of Cairo, party with your GF, or with your friends. just have fun, a relationship should add to the fun. not make you feel like your missing out.
But many guys I know were only ready for a relationship when they were truely sick of their bachlorism. And when they finally got to that point they became so commited, and ready to compromise and work for the relationship, before that they only broke many hearts.
I guess, from what Ive seen a guy needs to get that point before being in a relationship. maybe you are just not there yet.

madgeylou · 10-15-2007, 09:46 PM

i was the girl in the relationship you describe above. i did everything i could think of to get him out of the house, to encourage him to do his own activities, to see his friends (and leave me alone a bit in the process!), but he was unable to do it. in his heart, our relationship had become the place where he could hide away from the world, and he was unable to both be with me and go forth and do his thing.

so, we broke up. it was rough but i am a lot happier now than i was when we were together, and i hope he is too. i'm glad we were together, but i'm glad it's over. i was not digging the experience of being the safe place to hide. what i want from a relationship is more adventure and engagement with life, not less.

are you in the same situation? are you using your relationship as an excuse to hide away from the world? if you talk to your girlfriend about these feelings, she might surprise you by agreeing that you need to be a bit more independent.

but ultimately, it's up to you whether you can do that in the context of this relationship or not.

Angela · 10-15-2007, 09:59 PM

It sounds to me like you're just not ready to get married. You recognize that this woman would be the woman you'd want to marry if you were ready, and that you might very well suffer later, realizing she was The One.

Well, aside from the fact that I don't believe in that "The One" crap -- there are innumerable people who would be the perfect partner for any of us -- if you're not ready, you're not ready. If you try to squooosh yourself into a monogamous relationship while wishing you were somewhere else, you'll make yourself and her miserable. What a horrible relationship!

Three years is a long time to waffle. You're not doing either one of you a favor by drawing this out longer, especially if it's her desire to get married. It will only get more and more difficult to end it. Be generous and make a clean break. Maybe you can agree to revisit the relationship in a year; but be forewarned: when women are done, they tend to be really done. Still, it's really stingy to be so withholding and dishonest and not present for her.

Make a commitment only when you're ready to make a commitment -- and you're not ready to make a commitment.

cdn2wheeler · 10-15-2007, 10:07 PM

I was going to give this thread a pass because of my own history with relationships (something less than stellar)... that, and the fact that there will undoubtedly be some that don't like what I'm gonna say.

*deep breath*

I was Mr. Responsible from the moment I got out of high school. Worked hard. Had a girlfriend that eventually became a wife and maintained a monogamous relationship. Never really did the whole "sowing the wild oats" thing because I was too busy being a good employee, a good son, a good son-in-law, a good husband and all the rest.

The result? The marriage failed. I became estranged from my parents (long story, but it's all patched up now). Lost the job due to corporate restructuring.

When I look back on it now, all that "Joe Responsibility" stuff may have actually done me more harm than good.

If I could only change 1 thing about that history, it would be this: Take freedom by the short hairs and use it for all it's worth. Because once you're married, solid in a job (well, as solid as one can be nowadays), got a mortgage and all the rest, your freedom is G O N E. There are certainly benefits to the security of a monogamous relationship and a mortgage and whatnot, but you can enjoy those benefits when you're older. Enjoy your freedom now.

*dives into a trench, awaiting flaming*

Angela · 10-15-2007, 10:17 PM

Well, you can be free inside of a monogamous relationship, too; we'll talk about that another time, cdn!

I'm the other side of the same thing cdn is saying. I passed up several invitations to get married, knowing that the men involved would never be happy about my urge to go live in foreign countries, to have a variety of romantic adventures, and to completely spurn the status quo of the upper middle class suburb I grew up in. Once in awhile I wonder how my life would be now if I had married any of those fellows, but one thing I'm quite sure of: I wasn't ready.

Interestingly, I'm ready now, and am so grateful for and happy in my monogamous relationship with Danger Man. There's no way I would have been able to generate this kind of joy, freedom and connection when I was in my '20s.

*dives into trench, too; hoping cdn will take the worst of the fallout and save my hide.

{aspiring_to_clarity} · 10-15-2007, 10:24 PM

cdn, I would actually be a whole lot happier if a guy just said, "I feel like I am not ready for the long term commitment" and went to sow his oats rather than dragging it out doing cost/benefit analysis for years. I don't think many women are in the market for a guy who is going to end up resenting them and the relationship. I would rather be alone than with someone who plays the game but secretly thinks I've stolen his youth.

OP - It may hurt at first when the plans she has for the relationship are shown to be futile, but in the long run it would probably be better for everyone involved if you don't drag out the inevitable.

cdn2wheeler · 10-15-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angela

*dives into trench, too; hoping cdn will take the worst of the fallout and save my hide.

OK, Angela, I'll brave the flames for you!!

*dons asbestos suit*

Quote:

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

cdn, I would actually be a whole lot happier if a guy just said, "I feel like I am not ready for the long term commitment" and went to sow his oats rather than dragging it out doing cost/benefit analysis for years.

I absolutely agree 100%.

gooboy · 10-16-2007, 01:32 AM

Thanks! Many have given me new perspectives, like Rose, Mark, danas, for example...

Have you read Steve's article "Feelings"? (http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2007/09/feelings/)

This part * is really making me think about all that story.

Negative feelings as a call to action

Negative feelings mean you’re going the wrong way. Your current reality is no longer a match for you, and it’s time to experience something new. That’s a good thing, so don’t worry when you notice you’re feeling bad. It just means you want something better or different. So don’t whine about feeling bad. Instead go into sleuth mode, and figure out why you’re feeling bad. It’s because you want something new that you don’t yet have, and at the same time you’re stubbornly resisting what you want by failing to fully align yourself with it. Don’t ignore your desires, or those negative feelings will only grow stronger and louder until you listen.

Do you think these negatives feelings may be a call for action like Steve describes it?

* hope I am not breaking any copyright rules by posting part of his text here in the forum...

striving4peace · 10-17-2007, 05:23 PM

man, cdn's post scares me. I sound like a younger version of him - always have been the responsible type having done the right thing (i've had good clean fun, yes - but I haven't exploited my freedom all the way)

andrew · 10-17-2007, 09:16 PM

Why do you *have* to get married? Religions and laws aside, I don't see marriage as anything else besides a title of officalness. Official to who, God and the State? I can understand that, but besides making it official, why is there an urge to get married? (I also understand being of one, joining together, etc etc, but beliefs aside) Can't you do the exact same things as being in a steady relationship? I know all the little goodies like saying you're husband and wife, and the wedding, and rings, etc, but wouldn't you say a month after the wedding, the novelty is over?

I can understand pressure and traditions, don't get me wrong. But what's the hurry? Everyone has their goals, and if getting settled down and married is one of them, great. Just trying to bring up some points.

I'm young and I totally understand what you're talking about. If leave her, and party, then decide you want her back, it'll be too late. But if you stay, you miss you on all the fun you could of had with other girls. That's pretty much it; being sexual with other girls is the only thing that should be limited. If being with her restricts you to a point where you're unhappy, something's wrong. Hell, you may find she likes other women too, you never know.

Just playing devil's advocate here. I know putting beliefs aside is not realistic, but I'm trying to make you think.

Mayo · 10-17-2007, 09:30 PM

Ur same age as me, now you have to choose will you be monogamous or be a player? If she does not satisfy you completely then you should stay a player, if she does complete you you will never even think of other women.. She will be your partner in every sense, she will even be willing to go with you on hypothetical Mount Everest...

Now my question is are you willing to climb her hypothetical Mount Everest, are you willing to listen her needs, desires and dreams... the relationship is a road of million miles and it gets crossed step by step.

I know how you feel, i'm on the similar questions set as you only i am starting from clean slate now.. should i be a player or dedicate my self to a certain woman?? But i have no problem (had before) to propose someone i feel is the perfect match in less than six months.. the more you think and philosophize on the relationship the more you get scarred.. as i said it's a road of million miles and it is crossed step by step and in reality i don't understand people that have "relationships" for 3,4-5 years without even understanding what they want... if you have to ponder for multiplicity of years what to think of a relationship then you are not a serious person. That is at least my opinion.
Oh and practice on sex with your partner, that is the most important part of your love life... once it dies so dies the love, i would hate to have a person i just share my flat with without sharing entire joy of love relationship long into the old age..

JimOfferman · 10-17-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooboy

Do you think these negatives feelings may be a call for action like Steve describes it?

Yes, I think they are. But it doesn't necessarily imply that the action is "go out and party and have lots of sex with a bunch of different girls". Maybe that is exactly the kind of action you need to take or maybe your action should be sitting down with yourself and taking an "official" decision on whether or not you want to commit to this girl. Only you can find out what course of action is right for you... so don't just stand there, start digging in your dirt!

Rose of Cairo · 10-18-2007, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew

If being with her restricts you to a point where you're unhappy, something's wrong.

absolutely!
You should be able to feel free, to party, to go out with your friends and travel with them while being in a relationship. If not, something's massively wrong. A relationship is not a prison

Your negative feelings are a sign that you're creating something you don't want. You're having some thoughts contradicting what you want, that's why you feel bad. Like Jim said, the action to take is not necessarily run away and party. But to begin with, you could find out what's wrong in this relationship and why you decided to put yourself into a prison.

Good luck!

poppy · 10-18-2007, 10:19 PM

It sounds like you value your relationship to a certain extent, but you are not demonstrating any respect for your relationship by sleeping with other women. If you believe you and your girlfriend are meant to be long term partners, you need to be honest with her. Any amount of pain that she would incur by you making a decision to live out your youth would be horribly intensified if she found out you were sleeping around. It's important to think about the message you want to send her. Respect what you have now, if you have to make decisions that will hurt her, the least you can do is honor the truth. In case this isn't obvious, I am in a similar situation, but on the other side.

JimOfferman · 10-19-2007, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy

It sounds like you value your relationship to a certain extent, but you are not demonstrating any respect for your relationship by sleeping with other women.

In gooboy's defense, he didn't say that he was sleeping with other women, but that he (among other things) still has a desire to experience what it is like to be with another woman.

I agree though that sleeping on the job, so to say, would show that you have no respect for your partner at all. And I'm sorry to hear that you are on the other side of such a relationship...

Honeywith4bees · 10-19-2007, 06:04 PM

cdn- Are you saying that to be responsable is to be equated with not having fun or enjoying life?
I am as responsable as they come, loyal to a fault, love meeting and socializing with new people, traveling and having new experiences. I think that I am leading a good life coupled with the fact that I am responsably taking care of my children and giving back to my community.
I hear about lots of men who walk away from the financial obligations towards their children because they are ready to go back and be the party going kid they think they missed out on in their youth.

Amandaaa · 10-19-2007, 07:29 PM

if you haven't lived out your wild side yet, and you're 27...then you're right-- you should probably do it now, before you hit 50 and sink into a midlife crisis.
do it now so you don't have any regrets.

if your girlfriend is truly in love with you, then she'll probably wait on you... but you can't break up with her, and expect her to be there when you decide that you're done with the single life.

(i know that if i were in her shoes, i wouldn't marry a guy who still had the desire to "experience" other women...)

Jennihul · 10-20-2007, 09:21 PM

It just means your ego is not mature enough to be a married person.

No biggie, just do your thing. Someday when you grow up, there will be another person just like your perfect woman. There is no such thing as ONE person for another person, soul mates is BS.

It would be a worse sin to get married with all this wildness still in you than to admit you need to get it out of your system.

Jennifer

gooboy · 10-20-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy

It sounds like you value your relationship to a certain extent, but you are not demonstrating any respect for your relationship by sleeping with other women.

Actually I am not sleeping with other women. I feel this need but don't do that in respect to her. At the same time it is hard to accept this need... and I just feel worse trying to deny it.

Some friends say I should start screwing around without leaving her, a sort of test-drive.... but I won't. I't would probably help to calm me down but I have the impression this is not the right way.

Amandaaa · 10-21-2007, 02:03 AM

Quote:

. There is no such thing as ONE person for another person, soul mates is BS.

the concept of soulmates is not BS.
if you think so, then you've never met yours.

(but i do think that there are a lot of people out there that you can be compatible with.)

gooboy-
do you think that you just need some attention from other girls..? like a little flirtation?
do you think that this could be cured with a few one-night stands?

or are you actually interested in dating other girls...like being exclusive with another girl.. to get a taste of what else is out there, and see if your girlfriend is really the right 'one'..?

if you think you just need more freedom and flirting in your life, then maybe you don't need to break up with her. maybe you can make some adjustments, and start going out with the boys more often, and things like that.
i don't suggest sleeping with other women while you're still dating her... but maybe if you get out there and test the waters, and meet some people, it'll give you a better idea of what you want right now.

(but i can guarantee that you'll quickly realize how overrated the single "party scene" is.
you'll probably be over it after the second week.)

BeyondBewildered · 10-21-2007, 02:14 AM

My hubby and I are high school sweethearts that got married at twenty. I think, the urge to "sow your wild oats" is mainly cultural. We both felt like if we stayed together we would "miss something", that "something" being what we are all told we will miss if we don't sow oats. But we realized, either way, when you make a choice, you are going to miss something. It's a question of what you want to miss. Fulfilling societies expectations and avoiding the status hit of being committed so young (especially for him) or just staying in love and letting the relationship continue it's natural course. For us, that was the choice. Perhaps your own personal desires are more in line in your culture, but what your culture tells you does play a role. It has too, it is a part of being human to factor it in either consciously or subconsciously. You should evaluate how much of a role it plays in your decision.

Do you really feel you are missing something? Or are you getting sucked into "the grass is always greener" mode and being romanticized by "experiencing your youth." Our culture equates promiscuity and substance abuse with masculinity. As a 27yo western male, you are taking a status hit by being monogamous. It's an assault on your masculinity (socially). If you're 27 and have only had 2 serious relationships, you must have a good idea of what being single and the party life means for you. You decided to stop being single because you wanted too, right? Think about how it really was, not how it looks on MTV.

I know what it feels like to be young and committed and feel like you're missing something. I know that I feel that way because I'm told to feel that way. I'm not missing anything that I actually want. You describe your relationship like a prison. Maybe being monogamous isn't the problem. Are you a partier and she isn't? You don't have to be traditional to be monogamous. Your marriage doesn't have to mean the end of all freedom and a beginning of a life of financial burdens and mediocrity. If a marriage is that way, that is the fault of the people in the marriage, not monogamy or age.

You say you love her, but it doesn't sound like it. It seems like you love having her. You sound very disconnected when you talk about her; you speak more of her as the position in your life than the person herself. If you love her, and you know that shes ready to be in a serious relationship and you aren't, you wouldn't want her to to anguish over you until you're ready to be with her. That isn't love. That is control. How is your communication? Does she know that the relationship keeps you from doing things you want to do, other than screwing women of course? Does she give you a lot of rules or ultimatums? Are you afraid to leave her alone or something? Like others have said, most of the things you want to do you should be able to do. It seems like you are either in a controlling relationship, or you simply want to start screwing other people. Do you guys have good sex frequently?

On that note, from what I hear, single life sex isn't that great. Infrequent, high risk, always the awkward first time, poor communication about technique/fantasy, too short because people are too horny, etc. My hubby has had way way WAY more sex than all of his single friends, and has gotten to explore a lot more in the fantasy department. It's like a hobby! And don't even get me started on the substance abuse part.

Guardian Angel · 10-21-2007, 03:18 PM

Hi to all (esp. to gooboy, I wonder why your name is not GOODBOY?!) Anyway, I was wondering how old is your GF, that you cannot enjoy your youth with her? But frankly, sorry for judging you but I think you do not love our GF, you just need her to be the future mother of your children. Another thing, your "best time" does not include the times with her?! hmmm...if you'll marry this girl with your kind of attitude, then I pity her...

10-14-2007, 11:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
gooboy Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5	I love her but feel the need to enjoy my youth - Advice, please! Please help! I have been struggling with this decision for about a year now, and really need to define this to stop feeling divided... I am male, 27 and have been in a relationship for 3 years now. On the one hand, I have no doubt she is the woman I would chose to be married and to have children with. I love her very much, and we get along with each other very well. She is my 2nd serious relationship but I had many other not so serious, so I knew many women and I am pretty sure when I say that she means that much to me. On the other hand, I feel a big need to enjoy my youth. I mean going out with my friends, traveling with them, partying (I love to party!), even going out and having sex with other women. I just feel I have not lived everything I should have lived and that this is the best age to do this. I am afraid of being 40 years old and married, looking back and saying "Oh, why didn't I do this and that while it was time to?" I also feel that if I continue this relationship it will go on until we get married (probably in 2 to 4 years from now), and will feel I have missed my "best time". But if I leave her, only god knows if I will be able to go back to her after my "party time". At the same time I am conscious that after some time being single I will get tired of that and will feel the need to engage into a serious relationship again, probably regretting to have left her in the first place. I have been suffering a lot from this "self-division" because it is causing me not to be 100% engaged in my relationship and at the same time not respecting my desires. What I need most now is just to feel inner piece regarding these choices... Your advice or new perspectives will help me a lot! Thanks for having the patience to read all that! Peace, Gooboy Last edited by gooboy; 10-15-2007 at 12:25 AM.

10-15-2007, 10:24 PM	#14 (permalink)
{aspiring_to_clarity} Family Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas, USA Posts: 3,709 ${aspiring_to_clarity} will become famous soon enough$	No fire here...I agree... cdn, I would actually be a whole lot happier if a guy just said, "I feel like I am not ready for the long term commitment" and went to sow his oats rather than dragging it out doing cost/benefit analysis for years. I don't think many women are in the market for a guy who is going to end up resenting them and the relationship. I would rather be alone than with someone who plays the game but secretly thinks I've stolen his youth. OP - It may hurt at first when the plans she has for the relationship are shown to be futile, but in the long run it would probably be better for everyone involved if you don't drag out the inevitable.
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10-15-2007, 12:25 AM	#2 (permalink)
Anya Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Columbus, Ohio (USA) Posts: 20	Hi Gooboy!!! I am (obviously) a girl, so I'll respond to you how I would feel about this situation from the girl's stand point. All I've heard so far is....me, me, me ...what about her? Did you think about her? If I would've been in her place, I would rather have a mutual split and go on with my own life. I would never want to be accused of a "stolen" fun youth. No way! So, please, count her feeling in as well. I hope that was not too harsh. Good luck!

10-15-2007, 12:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Lychee Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 538	Enjoy your youth? Who says that you'll live tomorrow (seriously)? Who says your desires are rational and correct? Human desires are not always right. If you know that she's the one you want to marry, then go ahead and marry her. Or let her go and allow her to marry a man who will appreciate her and what she has to offer - a man who doesn't feel like he's missing out on life experiences by being with her.

10-15-2007, 03:56 AM	#5 (permalink)
Mark Lapierre Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,061	We're notoriously bad at figuring out what will make us happy in the future, including a few minutes into the future. So you think you might enjoy yourself more if you don't stick with her. You're probably wrong, and there's no way to know for sure. The best chance you have of finding out is a) do it or b) find other people in a similar situation who are experiencing what you're considering. Find other people who were in a long term relationship, decided to end it so they could party more, then tried to return to a previous relationship. See how happy they are. Then find other people 10-20 years further along; either those who did the same, or those who stuck with their partner. Inability to forecast aside, ask yourself what you really value. Do the pleasures of a party life really contribute much? Is it really the best use of your time? But one other thing which may be obvious to you, but which isn't to me, but why can't you party with your girlfriend?

10-15-2007, 06:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
NotesMaeve Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 937	What the hell does sex with other women have to do with the potential of your youth?

10-15-2007, 07:22 AM	#7 (permalink)
m18pak Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	Do what Steve suggests, picture yourself a few years from now having take the "party route", and look back and see if you would have still made the same choice.

10-15-2007, 09:18 AM	#8 (permalink)
Rose of Cairo Family Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: France -> Germany -> France -> Brazil Posts: 3,430	Gooboy, there is something I don't understand. Why do you have to choose between the relationship and partying??? ok, having sex with other women might be a problem if you're in a monogamous relationship. But everything else, partying, going out with friends, travelling with friends, doesn't collide with a relationship! Your post sounds like your relationship is holding you back from enjoying your youth! Well I wouldn't want such a relationship... What kind of relationship are you having??? Having a relationship doesn't mean spending all your time with her or spending every evening at home holding her hand... I for my part don't see any problem in having a relationship and partying, going out with others and travelling around at the same time. Even when you have a relationship, you need your private sphere and time to be alone or with your friends anyway. So where's the problem? About having sex with other women: you said you already had sex with enough women, so you know that's not the key to universal happiness.. I'm wondering what your reason is, because I get a feeling that you're a monogamous guy actually. So what's the reason for your wish? Do you need some positive female feedback and reassurance? In that case, work on your self-esteem. Or is it that you feel a bit caged in your relationship? I guess so, or else you would party and travel around freely. Or are you bored and want some adventures? There are many reasons you could have such a wish. Find it out and fix it. Leaving her and f***ing around will not solve your problem, as your problem is inside of you. Or in the relationship too. But if this is the case, you'd attract the same in your next relationship anyway, so leaving is not a solution either. Maybe there is something more general you're wasting in your life? You're not living what you could live now. What is it? Are you sure it's about sex with other women? Is it about partying? Why don't you do it then?? Is it something else? What? Maybe it has nothing to do with your relationship? Why do you think now is your "best time"? Every moment is your best time, even when you're 70. Live more of what you really want to live, now, in your relationship, that's what I would say. Good luck to you!

10-15-2007, 09:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
danas Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,676	Mind you I know a guy that did just that, they broke up, and he told her if we ever get back together, it will be for good. Today they are happily married. I think they were in there early 20s (or late teens) when they first broke up. I guess we never really know the future. Taking risks is part of the game. Although I agree very much with with Rose of Cairo, party with your GF, or with your friends. just have fun, a relationship should add to the fun. not make you feel like your missing out. But many guys I know were only ready for a relationship when they were truely sick of their bachlorism. And when they finally got to that point they became so commited, and ready to compromise and work for the relationship, before that they only broke many hearts. I guess, from what Ive seen a guy needs to get that point before being in a relationship. maybe you are just not there yet.

10-15-2007, 09:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
madgeylou Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: brooklyn, new york Posts: 193	i was the girl in the relationship you describe above. i did everything i could think of to get him out of the house, to encourage him to do his own activities, to see his friends (and leave me alone a bit in the process!), but he was unable to do it. in his heart, our relationship had become the place where he could hide away from the world, and he was unable to both be with me and go forth and do his thing. so, we broke up. it was rough but i am a lot happier now than i was when we were together, and i hope he is too. i'm glad we were together, but i'm glad it's over. i was not digging the experience of being the safe place to hide. what i want from a relationship is more adventure and engagement with life, not less. are you in the same situation? are you using your relationship as an excuse to hide away from the world? if you talk to your girlfriend about these feelings, she might surprise you by agreeing that you need to be a bit more independent. but ultimately, it's up to you whether you can do that in the context of this relationship or not.

10-15-2007, 09:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
Angela Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 22,520	It sounds to me like you're just not ready to get married. You recognize that this woman would be the woman you'd want to marry if you were ready, and that you might very well suffer later, realizing she was The One. Well, aside from the fact that I don't believe in that "The One" crap -- there are innumerable people who would be the perfect partner for any of us -- if you're not ready, you're not ready. If you try to squooosh yourself into a monogamous relationship while wishing you were somewhere else, you'll make yourself and her miserable. What a horrible relationship! Three years is a long time to waffle. You're not doing either one of you a favor by drawing this out longer, especially if it's her desire to get married. It will only get more and more difficult to end it. Be generous and make a clean break. Maybe you can agree to revisit the relationship in a year; but be forewarned: when women are done, they tend to be really done. Still, it's really stingy to be so withholding and dishonest and not present for her. Make a commitment only when you're ready to make a commitment -- and you're not ready to make a commitment.

10-15-2007, 10:07 PM	#12 (permalink)
cdn2wheeler Family Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,016	I was going to give this thread a pass because of my own history with relationships (something less than stellar)... that, and the fact that there will undoubtedly be some that don't like what I'm gonna say. deep breath I was Mr. Responsible from the moment I got out of high school. Worked hard. Had a girlfriend that eventually became a wife and maintained a monogamous relationship. Never really did the whole "sowing the wild oats" thing because I was too busy being a good employee, a good son, a good son-in-law, a good husband and all the rest. The result? The marriage failed. I became estranged from my parents (long story, but it's all patched up now). Lost the job due to corporate restructuring. When I look back on it now, all that "Joe Responsibility" stuff may have actually done me more harm than good. If I could only change 1 thing about that history, it would be this: Take freedom by the short hairs and use it for all it's worth. Because once you're married, solid in a job (well, as solid as one can be nowadays), got a mortgage and all the rest, your freedom is G O N E. There are certainly benefits to the security of a monogamous relationship and a mortgage and whatnot, but you can enjoy those benefits when you're older. Enjoy your freedom now. dives into a trench, awaiting flaming

10-15-2007, 10:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
Angela Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 22,520	Well, you can be free inside of a monogamous relationship, too; we'll talk about that another time, cdn! I'm the other side of the same thing cdn is saying. I passed up several invitations to get married, knowing that the men involved would never be happy about my urge to go live in foreign countries, to have a variety of romantic adventures, and to completely spurn the status quo of the upper middle class suburb I grew up in. Once in awhile I wonder how my life would be now if I had married any of those fellows, but one thing I'm quite sure of: I wasn't ready. Interestingly, I'm ready now, and am so grateful for and happy in my monogamous relationship with Danger Man. There's no way I would have been able to generate this kind of joy, freedom and connection when I was in my '20s. *dives into trench, too; hoping cdn will take the worst of the fallout and save my hide.

10-16-2007, 01:32 AM	#16 (permalink)
gooboy Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5	Thanks! Many have given me new perspectives, like Rose, Mark, danas, for example... Have you read Steve's article "Feelings"? (http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2007/09/feelings/) This part * is really making me think about all that story. Negative feelings as a call to action Negative feelings mean you’re going the wrong way. Your current reality is no longer a match for you, and it’s time to experience something new. That’s a good thing, so don’t worry when you notice you’re feeling bad. It just means you want something better or different. So don’t whine about feeling bad. Instead go into sleuth mode, and figure out why you’re feeling bad. It’s because you want something new that you don’t yet have, and at the same time you’re stubbornly resisting what you want by failing to fully align yourself with it. Don’t ignore your desires, or those negative feelings will only grow stronger and louder until you listen. Do you think these negatives feelings may be a call for action like Steve describes it? * hope I am not breaking any copyright rules by posting part of his text here in the forum...

10-17-2007, 05:23 PM	#17 (permalink)
striving4peace Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 204	man, cdn's post scares me. I sound like a younger version of him - always have been the responsible type having done the right thing (i've had good clean fun, yes - but I haven't exploited my freedom all the way)

10-17-2007, 09:16 PM	#18 (permalink)
andrew Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: California, USA Posts: 593	Why do you have to get married? Religions and laws aside, I don't see marriage as anything else besides a title of officalness. Official to who, God and the State? I can understand that, but besides making it official, why is there an urge to get married? (I also understand being of one, joining together, etc etc, but beliefs aside) Can't you do the exact same things as being in a steady relationship? I know all the little goodies like saying you're husband and wife, and the wedding, and rings, etc, but wouldn't you say a month after the wedding, the novelty is over? I can understand pressure and traditions, don't get me wrong. But what's the hurry? Everyone has their goals, and if getting settled down and married is one of them, great. Just trying to bring up some points. I'm young and I totally understand what you're talking about. If leave her, and party, then decide you want her back, it'll be too late. But if you stay, you miss you on all the fun you could of had with other girls. That's pretty much it; being sexual with other girls is the only thing that should be limited. If being with her restricts you to a point where you're unhappy, something's wrong. Hell, you may find she likes other women too, you never know. Just playing devil's advocate here. I know putting beliefs aside is not realistic, but I'm trying to make you think.

10-17-2007, 09:30 PM	#19 (permalink)
Mayo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Croatia Posts: 448	Ur same age as me, now you have to choose will you be monogamous or be a player? If she does not satisfy you completely then you should stay a player, if she does complete you you will never even think of other women.. She will be your partner in every sense, she will even be willing to go with you on hypothetical Mount Everest... Now my question is are you willing to climb her hypothetical Mount Everest, are you willing to listen her needs, desires and dreams... the relationship is a road of million miles and it gets crossed step by step. I know how you feel, i'm on the similar questions set as you only i am starting from clean slate now.. should i be a player or dedicate my self to a certain woman?? But i have no problem (had before) to propose someone i feel is the perfect match in less than six months.. the more you think and philosophize on the relationship the more you get scarred.. as i said it's a road of million miles and it is crossed step by step and in reality i don't understand people that have "relationships" for 3,4-5 years without even understanding what they want... if you have to ponder for multiplicity of years what to think of a relationship then you are not a serious person. That is at least my opinion. Oh and practice on sex with your partner, that is the most important part of your love life... once it dies so dies the love, i would hate to have a person i just share my flat with without sharing entire joy of love relationship long into the old age..

10-18-2007, 10:19 PM	#22 (permalink)
poppy Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: california Posts: 2	It sounds like you value your relationship to a certain extent, but you are not demonstrating any respect for your relationship by sleeping with other women. If you believe you and your girlfriend are meant to be long term partners, you need to be honest with her. Any amount of pain that she would incur by you making a decision to live out your youth would be horribly intensified if she found out you were sleeping around. It's important to think about the message you want to send her. Respect what you have now, if you have to make decisions that will hurt her, the least you can do is honor the truth. In case this isn't obvious, I am in a similar situation, but on the other side.

10-19-2007, 06:04 PM	#24 (permalink)
Honeywith4bees Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 861	cdn- Are you saying that to be responsable is to be equated with not having fun or enjoying life? I am as responsable as they come, loyal to a fault, love meeting and socializing with new people, traveling and having new experiences. I think that I am leading a good life coupled with the fact that I am responsably taking care of my children and giving back to my community. I hear about lots of men who walk away from the financial obligations towards their children because they are ready to go back and be the party going kid they think they missed out on in their youth.

10-19-2007, 07:29 PM	#25 (permalink)
Amandaaa Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 344	if you haven't lived out your wild side yet, and you're 27...then you're right-- you should probably do it now, before you hit 50 and sink into a midlife crisis. do it now so you don't have any regrets. if your girlfriend is truly in love with you, then she'll probably wait on you... but you can't break up with her, and expect her to be there when you decide that you're done with the single life. (i know that if i were in her shoes, i wouldn't marry a guy who still had the desire to "experience" other women...)

10-20-2007, 09:21 PM	#26 (permalink)
Jennihul Family Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,031	It just means your ego is not mature enough to be a married person. No biggie, just do your thing. Someday when you grow up, there will be another person just like your perfect woman. There is no such thing as ONE person for another person, soul mates is BS. It would be a worse sin to get married with all this wildness still in you than to admit you need to get it out of your system. Jennifer

10-21-2007, 02:14 AM	#29 (permalink)
BeyondBewildered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 53	My hubby and I are high school sweethearts that got married at twenty. I think, the urge to "sow your wild oats" is mainly cultural. We both felt like if we stayed together we would "miss something", that "something" being what we are all told we will miss if we don't sow oats. But we realized, either way, when you make a choice, you are going to miss something. It's a question of what you want to miss. Fulfilling societies expectations and avoiding the status hit of being committed so young (especially for him) or just staying in love and letting the relationship continue it's natural course. For us, that was the choice. Perhaps your own personal desires are more in line in your culture, but what your culture tells you does play a role. It has too, it is a part of being human to factor it in either consciously or subconsciously. You should evaluate how much of a role it plays in your decision. Do you really feel you are missing something? Or are you getting sucked into "the grass is always greener" mode and being romanticized by "experiencing your youth." Our culture equates promiscuity and substance abuse with masculinity. As a 27yo western male, you are taking a status hit by being monogamous. It's an assault on your masculinity (socially). If you're 27 and have only had 2 serious relationships, you must have a good idea of what being single and the party life means for you. You decided to stop being single because you wanted too, right? Think about how it really was, not how it looks on MTV. I know what it feels like to be young and committed and feel like you're missing something. I know that I feel that way because I'm told to feel that way. I'm not missing anything that I actually want. You describe your relationship like a prison. Maybe being monogamous isn't the problem. Are you a partier and she isn't? You don't have to be traditional to be monogamous. Your marriage doesn't have to mean the end of all freedom and a beginning of a life of financial burdens and mediocrity. If a marriage is that way, that is the fault of the people in the marriage, not monogamy or age. You say you love her, but it doesn't sound like it. It seems like you love having her. You sound very disconnected when you talk about her; you speak more of her as the position in your life than the person herself. If you love her, and you know that shes ready to be in a serious relationship and you aren't, you wouldn't want her to to anguish over you until you're ready to be with her. That isn't love. That is control. How is your communication? Does she know that the relationship keeps you from doing things you want to do, other than screwing women of course? Does she give you a lot of rules or ultimatums? Are you afraid to leave her alone or something? Like others have said, most of the things you want to do you should be able to do. It seems like you are either in a controlling relationship, or you simply want to start screwing other people. Do you guys have good sex frequently? On that note, from what I hear, single life sex isn't that great. Infrequent, high risk, always the awkward first time, poor communication about technique/fantasy, too short because people are too horny, etc. My hubby has had way way WAY more sex than all of his single friends, and has gotten to explore a lot more in the fantasy department. It's like a hobby! And don't even get me started on the substance abuse part.

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10-21-2007, 03:18 PM	#30 (permalink)
Guardian Angel Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 99	Hi to all (esp. to gooboy, I wonder why your name is not GOODBOY?!) Anyway, I was wondering how old is your GF, that you cannot enjoy your youth with her? But frankly, sorry for judging you but I think you do not love our GF, you just need her to be the future mother of your children. Another thing, your "best time" does not include the times with her?! hmmm...if you'll marry this girl with your kind of attitude, then I pity her...