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JimOfferman · 10-31-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeker5

"I'm so tired, but I need to take out the trash"

I really dislike the not-so-subtle-take-a-hint undertone in such a statement. I'd actually prefer "I'm so tired, would you take out the trash for me (dear)?". That's both nicely put and direct enough for my groggy after-work head to comprehend it.

I don't mind if you're pushing my buttons the right way, but I do not like it at all when you leave me guessing which button I need to push to make you happy.

Rose of Cairo · 10-31-2007, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

I really dislike the not-so-subtle-take-a-hint undertone in such a statement. I'd actually prefer "I'm so tired, would you take out the trash for me (dear)?".

Yes, I hate such not-so-subtle-take-a-hint undertones too. It's difficult to say no when they didn't ask directly. I feel pressured into doing something in such a case and don't feel I have the freedom to make a decision and say "yes" or "no" honestly. Defiant as I am, I'll always say no to such an unfair capture attempt.

But Jim I also really dislike your assumption that it's her job to take out the trash

JimOfferman · 10-31-2007, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

But Jim I also really dislike your assumption that it's her job to take out the trash

Hey! That was not my assumption at all! And, for your information, I always take out the trash...

Rose of Cairo · 10-31-2007, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Hey! That was not my assumption at all! And, for your information, I always take out the trash...

hihihi! teasing you pays off

Alex2007 · 10-31-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kulai

What happened to male dominance? Don't be manipulated by women. manipulate them instead.

Yes. You are a man for "gOD sake"!

Unfortunately women toy with men's insane disire for sex. Formula is that men have many women in the pool so sex is not an issue for them no more!!

Alex

4Mind4Life · 10-31-2007, 10:18 PM

The truth is, anyone can be manipulative! Not just females, or not females more so, ANYONE. In order to deal with this manipulation, you need to 'grow a set' & man-up or woman-up to the situation. TELL THE PERSON that their manipulation needs to stop. You have a choice over what to do with your life and who to hang around with. There may be a lot of manipulation that you realize is going on, but try focusing on the goodness and good people in this world and start hanging around them!

If we are talking flirting here, yeah, it can be difficult to hold back, BUT realize that whatever you do or say while flirting, you should take FULL PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for!

REAL TALK.

seeker5 · 11-01-2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Yes, I hate such not-so-subtle-take-a-hint undertones too. It's difficult to say no when they didn't ask directly. I feel pressured into doing something in such a case and don't feel I have the freedom to make a decision and say "yes" or "no" honestly.

Oh? I feel different. I feel pressured if asked directly, but with hints, I can easily ignore it if I choose not to do the thing. When asked, I have to think about explaining why I don't want to. When hinted, I can ignore and not have to explain why I don't want to.

Lola · 11-01-2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeker5

Oh? I feel different. I feel pressured if asked directly, but with hints, I can easily ignore it if I choose not to do the thing. When asked, I have to think about explaining why I don't want to. When hinted, I can ignore and not have to explain why I don't want to.

So now you have manipulation upon manipulation. And nobody is clearly communicating what they really want.

seeker5 · 11-01-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lola

So now you have manipulation upon manipulation. And nobody is clearly communicating what they really want.

I can see why you think this. But that's not the case - the communication is very clear - it's clear I'm ignoring the hint because I choose not to follow it. The other person understand that. It's hard to explain. There are some cultures that is based on that, and I spent part of my life in one such culture so it comes easier to me I guess.

Lola · 11-01-2007, 04:01 PM

Care to clarify?

It sounded like you said if someone hints at something rather than asking outright then you can act like you didn't hear/didn't understand/didn't notice them rather than having to make and own a decision.

Lola · 11-01-2007, 04:09 PM

oops - you edited while I was posting!

So it sounds like you understand what I was getting at which is when one person hints at what they want rather than asking for it, inauthentic communication is created. Ignoring the hint then, perpetuates it.

seeker5 · 11-01-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lola

So it sounds like you understand what I was getting at which is when one person hints at what they want rather than asking for it, inauthentic communication is created. Ignoring the hint then, perpetuates it.

No. It's not inauthentic, it's respectfull. It's respectful because it doesn't force the other to say yes or no and it doesn't put the other on the spot and under pressure to have to explain why they don't want to do something.

Angela · 11-01-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeker5

I can see why you think this. But that's not the case - the communication is very clear - it's clear I'm ignoring the hint because I choose not to follow it. The other person understand that. It's hard to explain. There are some cultures that is based on that, and I spent part of my life in one such culture so it comes easier to me I guess.

I've seen that in my travels -- this idea that it would be too impolite to make a direct request, so you drop a hint. That allows the hintee to either notice the hint and act on it, or pretend not to notice the hint and avoid acting, without taking face away from either the hinter or the hintee.

Such a delicate dance. Not for me.

Lola · 11-01-2007, 04:28 PM

OK - thanks seeker - I understand what you're saying now.

But, boy would that trip me up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angela

Such a delicate dance. Not for me.

Yeah. I'd be stomping on everyone's feet.

Rose of Cairo · 11-01-2007, 04:40 PM

oh yes, I know what you mean Seeker. In some cultures asking directly or saying directly no would be extremely impolite indeed. That's not inauthentic, that's just another way to communicate. I noticed that in South France, where I was raised, people tend to communicate this way more than in Germany, where I live now. In the first months I lived here, I was often upset by germans because they were soooo rude! (in my eyes at that time... they simply were more direct) I've learnt the german rudeness now

But even in this more subtle communication you're talking about, you're free to say no. You just express it in another way. What I meant I hate is when people raised in a "direct" culture use indirect hints, because they often (not always, but often) don't accept it when you don't do what they want. They're upset by your (direct or indirect) no or get cranky or reproachful or try to pressure you into doing it. That's real manipulation. You know what I mean?

seeker5 · 11-02-2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

What I meant I hate is when people raised in a "direct" culture use indirect hints, because they often (not always, but often) don't accept it when you don't do what they want. They're upset by your (direct or indirect) no or get cranky or reproachful or try to pressure you into doing it. That's real manipulation. You know what I mean?

Yes exactly! I've seen this happen so many times in couple relationship here in the U.S. - one ask the other to do something, and if one says no, the other gets upset overtly, or feels hurt. So basically in these relationships, people end up doing what their partner want them to do - not because they want to, or they think it's right, but because they want to avoid the other one being mad or upset at them. To me, that very unauthentic and it doesn't seem right.

Ilya · 11-02-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeker5

There are some cultures that is based on that, and I spent part of my life in one such culture so it comes easier to me I guess.

Are women manipulative in that culture as well?

Cron · 11-02-2007, 04:16 PM

Both men and women try to manipulate the other sex.

There is not shortage of men telling lies to impress women and get them into bed.

Ilya · 11-02-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cron

There is not shortage of men telling lies to impress women and get them into bed.

True, but here we are talking about women trying to impress men and NOT get them into bed

JimOfferman · 11-02-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cron

There is not shortage of men telling lies to impress women and get them into bed.

And what a bunch of losers they are...

10-31-2007, 10:18 PM	#36 (permalink)
4Mind4Life Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: U.S. Posts: 149	Hmm.......Anyone can be manipulative! The truth is, anyone can be manipulative! Not just females, or not females more so, ANYONE. In order to deal with this manipulation, you need to 'grow a set' & man-up or woman-up to the situation. TELL THE PERSON that their manipulation needs to stop. You have a choice over what to do with your life and who to hang around with. There may be a lot of manipulation that you realize is going on, but try focusing on the goodness and good people in this world and start hanging around them! If we are talking flirting here, yeah, it can be difficult to hold back, BUT realize that whatever you do or say while flirting, you should take FULL PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for! REAL TALK.

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11-01-2007, 04:01 PM	#40 (permalink)
Lola Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 679	Care to clarify? It sounded like you said if someone hints at something rather than asking outright then you can act like you didn't hear/didn't understand/didn't notice them rather than having to make and own a decision.

11-01-2007, 04:09 PM	#41 (permalink)
Lola Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 679	oops - you edited while I was posting! So it sounds like you understand what I was getting at which is when one person hints at what they want rather than asking for it, inauthentic communication is created. Ignoring the hint then, perpetuates it.

11-01-2007, 04:40 PM	#45 (permalink)
Rose of Cairo Family Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: France -> Germany -> France -> Brazil Posts: 3,430	oh yes, I know what you mean Seeker. In some cultures asking directly or saying directly no would be extremely impolite indeed. That's not inauthentic, that's just another way to communicate. I noticed that in South France, where I was raised, people tend to communicate this way more than in Germany, where I live now. In the first months I lived here, I was often upset by germans because they were soooo rude! (in my eyes at that time... they simply were more direct) I've learnt the german rudeness now But even in this more subtle communication you're talking about, you're free to say no. You just express it in another way. What I meant I hate is when people raised in a "direct" culture use indirect hints, because they often (not always, but often) don't accept it when you don't do what they want. They're upset by your (direct or indirect) no or get cranky or reproachful or try to pressure you into doing it. That's real manipulation. You know what I mean?

11-02-2007, 04:16 PM	#48 (permalink)
Cron Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 420	Both men and women try to manipulate the other sex. There is not shortage of men telling lies to impress women and get them into bed.

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