Apologizing...

[Chado2423]

Apologizing and forgiving can be painful but necessary experiences in our relationships... I am a terrible apologizer... it doesn't mean that I'm not remorseful, or that I don't mean it when I say "I'm sorry..." but the truth is we all have unique ways of giving and recieving apologies. In my household growing up I was rarely apologized to, yet ironically I was always expected to apologize when I did something wrong. This sort of paraodixal example/expectation thing happens in any relationship, but it seems that it happens more often in the realm of apologies and forgiveness. Some people have rules for unforgiveness, "I can never forgive him for that!" Some people have been taught that all you have to say are the two words "I'm sorry" in order to be forgiven. But of course this clashes when the means for forgiveness by the other person are either unattainable or more complicated... for some a simple "I'm sorry" won't work... For some, in order for an apology to be effective you must have a list of a hundred different things going on at once, and you must communicate it clearly while showing feelings. The truth is, apologizing and even forgiving is not as simple as Seseme Street make it seem. It really delves much more deeply into our psyches and what we have been taught and told to believe about them, along with our own conclusions.

Have you ever heard someone say something like "You can't forgive...." or "I can't forgive..." Is it really true that they can't, or that they won't? I believe you CAN forgive anyone for anything, if you just take the time and effort to work through your pain. I'm not saying you won't be hurt or that it will be easy. Far from it. I think forgiveness and even working our way up to apologizing is very hard work sometimes. Its only easy, when we are readily forgiven. But it can also be excruciatingly difficult. And since I have seen much about relationship struggles on this forum, and since I have my own issues, I think it's time we think through our apologies and forgiveness strategies. If we are truly committed to personal growth, we would honestly take a hard look at how we relate to others. Most people on this forum are concerned about this, so I don't have to point it out, but the question is, what are we doing about our relationship concerns? Are we forgiving those who have asked us for forgiveness, or are we holding a grudge, and keeping those "comfortable" painful feelings inside? Are we taking the time to work through our apologies, and figure out what is really upsetting another person that we have wronged in some way?

Screwed Up

Take your time and think about it.

Have a good day,

Chad

P.S. The actual article on the page link above is good, but if you decide to buy the book they are trying to sell you, you do so at your own risk. I didn't notice the typical bait and lure salesman technique at first, so I apologize for that. I didn't buy that e-book so I'm not going to reccommend it.

[geekchic9]

Cue my favorite song....

[NotesMaeve]

Slamhot just usually jumps naked out of my closet as an apology. Thus far it's worked out okay. The landlady found it less humorous when she came in to drop off some cookies though and was mistaken for me.

Seriously though... Here's a fine example: I discovered awhile back Slamhot was REALLY bothered when I'd poke fun at his age. At first I was surprised. Initially, I thought he didn't look his age at all. (Maybe I was a little smitten! ) So I thought teasing was fine. WRONG. First thing I said is that I wouldn't do it again. No age jokes pass my lips. And I pointed out I love ALL of him, including his age and experience. At the very least, he seems over it and is wonderful to me.

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by geekchic9

Cue my favorite song....

Good song. Many of us think it's too late to apologize or to forgive, because the pain is too hard for us to go through. Yet, this is holding on to our hurt, and is really unproductive.... you never know how much better you'll feel, until you really work through that pain...



Another song with this threads theme:
Hard To Say I'm Sorry

[JimOfferman]

My experience is that you get what you give. If you forgive easily, others will find it easier to forgive you as well. Owning up to your faults helps as well and will often result in those around you owning up to their mistakes more often as well.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

My experience is that you get what you give. If you forgive easily, others will find it easier to forgive you as well. Owning up to your faults helps as well and will often result in those around you owning up to their mistakes more often as well.

Nah. I'm a total unforgiving jerk and I find people are pretty great.

[lizthefair]

I wrote a live journal post about good apologies and bad apologies awhile ago. Let me see if I can find it.

ah, here it is.

[Honeywith4bees]

I know that it is better to get over our perceived "pain" and let go of our injuries, but how do you do that if the person who has injured you believes that they had the right to injure you? I would like to forgive and not carry around the anger anymore, and sometimes I'm able to just forget about that person, but othertimes it just eats me up inside!! Suggestions?

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by Honeywith4bees

I know that it is better to get over our perceived "pain" and let go of our injuries, but how do you do that if the person who has injured you believes that they had the right to injure you? I would like to forgive and not carry around the anger anymore, and sometimes I'm able to just forget about that person, but othertimes it just eats me up inside!! Suggestions?

The pain is not "percieved" it is authentic and real... who is to say that emotional pain is not real? It is always a good idea to forgive those who apologize to us. But, what you speak of here is forgiveness without an apology. Yes it is excruciatingly difficult to do so, but the first step is becoming willing to forgive the person not only for harming you, but for also not apologizing to you. This is really more difficult than most people think and is not an instaneous process. Another approach if you find that one to hard, is to accept the harm. Accepting the harm done is a form of forgiveness, although it lies on the lesser end of the spectrum because you don't have a positive and powerful confrontation with the other person. This type of forgiveness isn't real forgiveness, but it does help you to internally lessen your own pain until you are ready to fully forgive. If you decide to take the tougher and ultimately more positive course, you will explain your values to the other person and seek for both of you to understand a. why the person harmed you, and b. why you were hurt by it. and c.what each of you can do to make the relationship better. This will be a very difficult conversation, and can be quite complicated to even get started. But the point is to try... and try again... sometimes really changing an aspect in yourself will help the other person see you in a new frame of light. There are even some who would suggest that you tell the person you forgive them anyway, even if you don't really feel it right now, because in some (not all) cases the person becomes receptive to you, and then the feelings of forgiveness come in later. Everyone has different needs in apologies and even forgivenesses(is that even a word?) A good book to read on Apologies is On Apology by Aaron Lazare... and I also recommend The Five Languages of Apology by Gary Chapman.

But you have to realize that this takes hard work, and working through your REAL emotional pain barriers toward ultimate forgiveness, or effective apologies.

But this brings us to an interesting question that could start its own thread: Why is apologizing so hard sometimes? Why is forgiving so hard sometimes?

[Honeywith4bees]

Thanks for the suggestions. Maybe I am not ready to forgive because the idea of facing that person again and telling them that they hurt me, showing that I am or was vulnerable to them, doesn't feel good to me now. Maybe I will try it symbolically.

[Angela]

Honeywith4bees, your pain sounds like old pain. It's not really helping you anymore; how long will you carry it with you?

I think you're right, though, not to want to face a person who has said or demonstrated that he feels he has the right to injure you. In fact, wouldn't it be sort of insane to be with someone who feels he has the right to injure you?

You can stay away from him and still let go of your old pain. All you have to do is remember the pain that he is willing to inflict upon you, you don't have to actually feel it. And that might be all you need to effect forgiveness in your life. Just let go of the old pain and anger, and keep the evaluations you've made as a result of the pain and anger. It's a much more powerful stand to take in your life, because if hold onto all those feelings, then you are just allowing him to continuously injure you, forever. You forgive, and you take that power away from him.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

Nah. I'm a total unforgiving jerk and I find people are pretty great.

Lol. There goes my point... but I'll forgive you for that!

Originally Posted by Angela

You forgive, and you take that power away from him.

Very well spoken! That is the heart of the matter, isn't it: you forgive a someone first and foremost to help yourself, not him/her. Perhaps it is the same with an apology, in which case you primarily help yourself accept the mistake and move on.

Jim.

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by Angela

You can stay away from him and still let go of your old pain. All you have to do is remember the pain that he is willing to inflict upon you, you don't have to actually feel it. And that might be all you need to effect forgiveness in your life. Just let go of the old pain and anger, and keep the evaluations you've made as a result of the pain and anger. It's a much more powerful stand to take in your life, because if hold onto all those feelings, then you are just allowing him to continuously injure you, forever. You forgive, and you take that power away from him.

Angela is speaking about the type of lesser forgiveness that I was referring to...

Of course if someone feels that they have the right to injure you, they really don't, nor should you allow it. But in order for what I call ultimate forgiveness to take place, in this sort of scenerio it should be brought to other person's attention. Do they know how you feel about what they did? Do they internally feel differently, NOW, then they did in the past? Of course we can't read other people's hearts and minds, but we can try to communicate with them. If they haven't apologized, then perhaps you should bring it to their attention (IN A PLEASANT, NON ATTACKING, NON DEFENSIVE MANNER) that you would appreciate an honest apology. I wouldn't say "You owe me an apology." Because what is most likely the next response... "For what?", right?. Instead explain how you felt hurt, and suggest that you would like an apology. Many try to beat around the bush. But if you recieve an apology; don't make the error that it isn't authentic simply because all of your apologies require something different. If you recieve an apology in an interpersonal relationship, in most cases, it is best to give the other person the benefit of the doubt.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

Of course if someone feels that they have the right to injure you

How can you expect an apology from someone when they feel they were justified to hurt you in the first place? That would be like expecting a terrorist to apologize for blowing up your house when he felt that he had every right to rid this earth of your like. He may be very deluded and society as a whole may condemn his actions, but in his mind he did the right thing... so why apologize for it?

[Honeywith4bees]

Three or four years ago, I confronted this person with a a letter that I had written, which I read to him. I have to see this person often because we share children. I read the letter which basically outlined some of the actions he had taken in our relationship and then I pointed out that those actions were abusive and that therefore, he was an abuser, of me. I didn't ask for an apology because he has told me before that he would "rather die than believe that he was wrong". (I think it would be devastatingly painful for him to have to admit that to himself.) I don't think he will ever apologize and I don't think that I even want to hear one from him. But, like Angela said, hanging on to old pain is not useful. I like to whip it out like a stinky shoe whenever life is getting overwhelming, and take a big long whiff so that I can feel justified that I really am deserving of feeling bad! (I actually don't do that too much anymore!)
But I think that what Jim and Angela said is true, the heart of the matter is to forgive for your own personal growth.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Honeywith4bees

.... hanging on to old pain is not useful. I like to whip it out like a stinky shoe whenever life is getting overwhelming, and take a big long whiff so that I can feel justified that I really am deserving of feeling bad! (I actually don't do that too much anymore!)

Ha! That is a very amusing image! I can relate.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous to request an apology from another person. Apologies aren't "owed" and I would like to see the recent PC custom of groups "demanding an apology" go down the tubes. What good is an apology that is delivered because it has been demanded? Craziness.

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

How can you expect an apology from someone when they feel they were justified to hurt you in the first place? That would be like expecting a terrorist to apologize for blowing up your house when he felt that he had every right to rid this earth of your like. He may be very deluded and society as a whole may condemn his actions, but in his mind he did the right thing... so why apologize for it?

I'm not talking about expecting an apology in that sense... I'm talking about making it clear that you would prefer an apology... make it clear that your values and their values are different, explain clearly why your values are different, and why you would prefer an apology. It would still be up to the other person to empathize with you or not. You cannot EXPECT an apology, but you can request one and let the other person know how much it might help to assist the both of you. Yet, although it is difficult you CAN forgive without this apology, IF you are willing to work through your grief from the fault that was done unto you.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Chado2423

I'm talking about making it clear that you would prefer an apology... B]You cannot EXPECT an apology[/B], but you can request one...

Sure, you can request an apology, but here's why I think that doesn't work if you want to achieve happiness, satisfaction and fulfillment.

If I ask you for an apology, I'm asking you to tell me you are sorry for something. Underneath that, I'm asking you to actually BE sorry. Requesting that someone BE something is telling them that you don't accept them exactly as they are and exactly as they are not. If you lie and say you are sorry but you're not being sorry, what does that give us in the relationship? Deceit and resentment on both sides. You're lying, but I'm also lying in telling myself that I'll be satisfied with this rickety arrangement. You'll resent being manipulated (you either have to lie, or you have to refuse to apologize) and I'll resent being lied to or being placated or having forced myself to pretend to be satisfied.

But let's say I ask for an apology and you actually ARE sorry. I've preempted your natural route to expressing that you're sorry. The generous flow of "this is what I've seen about myself, and I want to share it with you so our relationship can prosper" gets jammed up a little by having it be requested, which sounds like an ultimatum: "either you apologize to me, or I won't be satisfied and fulfilled." Not good for a relationship.

My grandpa had the best response ever when someone demanded an apology: "I apologize if I said something I didn't mean!"

I think apologies should be left entirely in the realm of the apologizer. Requesting, demanding, expecting, or even hoping for an apology is a great thing to let go of if you're holding on to it and would like to have more freedom in your relationship.

That's what I think.

[JimOfferman]

What she said ^

(I agree 100%)

[Chado2423]

^^ agreed... in some cases it is best to work forgiveness in our hearts. The reason we ask for an apology is because we want to feel better. But if we can forgive without the apology, we would feel better, right? So it is not necessary to request an apology, unless you wish to clearly communicate your feelings to the other person in a way that would invoke empathy. But there can be no guarantee that any action you take would invoke that empathy. I agree whole heartedly with Angela, which is why I think, depending upon the circumstances of the situation, forgiveness without apologies is one of the best routes we can take. This is ultimate forgiveness, because it is not dependent upon anything, except your own inward self.

"either you apologize to me, or I won't be satisfied and fulfilled." I should have made it clear that I was not speaking about being dependent upon the apology to forgive... rather just making it clear to the other person how you felt and why. You don't need an apology to do this. If the person comes of their own accord this is best. But if they do not, they may not have a full understanding of your perspective. I'm merely speaking of clearly communicating your perspective, and perhaps requesting an apology if you feel led that way during the discussion. I hope that clarifies my meaning.

[Honeywith4bees]

Chado2423, I appreciate that you started this thread and got me thinking about the act of forgiveness. Apology or not, forgiveness is very important, and something that, thanks to you, I have been thinking about for the last couple of days. So, thankyou for that!!

[Angela]

yeah, I can see where it would be helpful to straighten out in a relationship: "When you (did or said x), I was (hurt or threatened). It would help me feel safe in this relationship if I knew that you regretted that action and are committed not to repeat it. If you don't regret your action, or are not committed not to repeat it, that would help me a lot to know that, as well. Would you please let me know where you stand about x?"

You're not asking for anyone to change what they're being, your simply asking for clarification so you can take the action that's appropriate for your own life. If you're mystified about their future likelihood to interfere with your well-being, how could you ever have sure footing in the relationship?

So, I think it's a good idea to request clarification. Not an apology.

[Chado2423]

Originally Posted by Angela

yeah, I can see where it would be helpful to straighten out in a relationship: "When you (did or said x), I was (hurt or threatened). It would help me feel safe in this relationship if I knew that you regretted that action and are committed not to repeat it. If you don't regret your action, or are not committed not to repeat it, that would help me a lot to know that, as well. Would you please let me know where you stand about x?"

You're not asking for anyone to change what they're being, your simply asking for clarification so you can take the action that's appropriate for your own life. If you're mystified about their future likelihood to interfere with your well-being, how could you ever have sure footing in the relationship?

So, I think it's a good idea to request clarification. Not an apology.

^ Yet it is also a good idea to also take initiative to apologize on our own when we do wrong. If we would like others to apologize to us when they wrong us, then why are we not apologizing to them when we do wrong?

Originally Posted by Honeywith4bees

Chado2423, I appreciate that you started this thread and got me thinking about the act of forgiveness. Apology or not, forgiveness is very important, and something that, thanks to you, I have been thinking about for the last couple of days. So, thankyou for that!!

You're welcome. Its also something I've been thinking about for a long time, and I realized that it isn't always easy.

[Rose of Cairo]

Lizthefair, thanks very much for your article! You're right about that "I'm sorry, but.." thing. I was doing it too. Now I stopped it! Today I apologized and just said "I'm sorry I did that, that wasn't ok, I'm really sorry I hurt you." Without explaining why I did it. It was much better. you're right, first only aknowledging that we did hurt the other person is much smarter. Thank you!

[Chado2423]

In Steve's post here: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2007/09/feelings/ Steve talks about feelings...

He writes:

"Often what traps us in negative emotion is that deep down we know what we want, but we don’t think we can get it. Sometimes we also don’t feel we deserve it. So we tell ourselves maybe we shouldn’t want it. Please don’t do that. It never works. You cannot NOT want what you want. If you want it, you want it. Trying to deny your desires is only going to piss you off. You really need to do the exact opposite of that."

I think this can apply toward apologizing and forgiving in a sort of more spiritual manner... I believe that we feel like we won't be forgiven, so we don't even make an effort to apologize... we feel like there is no hope for a change in behaviour by the other party, so we don't forgive. Either way we hold on to these negative emotions and don't really grow past them.


A Wiccan spell/prayer for forgiveness from a particular person...

Cerridwen, Mother, blessed be
I request the need to remove all hostility.
Both from myself toward (name) and (name) toward me.
Mother and Father, blessed be
Bring between (name) and I tranquility.
Pan and Eros, blessed be
Since there is still love somewhere hidden between us, let it be.
For the good of all and harm to none, as I will, So mote it be.

I now lay down the sword that I weild
And he/she puts down that heavy shield
And the wall breaks down and then we're free
For the good of the all and harm to none, as I do will, so mote it be.

The veil of anger and hurt is removed with care,
And only love remains, plenty of pure and true love to share,

I wash away all that keeps us now at bay I now pray let forgiveness come my way.
I wash away all that keeps us now at bay I now pray let only my love come (his/her) way.
This is my will so mote it be.




A Judeo-Christian prayer for forgiveness from God... i.e. an apology and request for forgiveness

“Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen.”




How Can I Forgive You?: The Courage ... - Google Book Search

[Chado2423]

In Steve's post here: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2007/09/feelings/ Steve talks about feelings...

He writes:

"Often what traps us in negative emotion is that deep down we know what we want, but we don’t think we can get it. Sometimes we also don’t feel we deserve it. So we tell ourselves maybe we shouldn’t want it. Please don’t do that. It never works. You cannot NOT want what you want. If you want it, you want it. Trying to deny your desires is only going to piss you off. You really need to do the exact opposite of that."

I think this can apply toward apologizing and forgiving in a sort of more spiritual manner... I believe that we feel like we won't be forgiven, so we don't even make an effort to apologize... we feel like there is no hope for a change in behaviour by the other party, so we don't forgive. Either way we hold on to these negative emotions and don't really grow past them.


A Wiccan spell/prayer for forgiveness from a particular person...

Cerridwen, Mother, blessed be
I request the need to remove all hostility.
Both from myself toward (name) and (name) toward me.
Mother and Father, blessed be
Bring between (name) and I tranquility.
Pan and Eros, blessed be
Since there is still love somewhere hidden between us, let it be.
For the good of all and harm to none, as I will, So mote it be.

I now lay down the sword that I weild
And he/she puts down that heavy shield
And the wall breaks down and then we're free
For the good of the all and harm to none, as I do will, so mote it be.

The veil of anger and hurt is removed with care,
And only love remains, plenty of pure and true love to share,

I wash away all that keeps us now at bay I now pray let forgiveness come my way.
I wash away all that keeps us now at bay I now pray let only my love come (his/her) way.
This is my will so mote it be.




A Judeo-Christian prayer for forgiveness from God... i.e. an apology and request for forgiveness

“Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen.”




How Can I Forgive You?: The Courage ... - Google Book Search

An article I am working on:

APOLOGIES AND FORGIVENESS