I'm so sad....do you think it's absolutely my fault??

[zpivat]

Basically my girl and I had a little misunderstanding. I somehow felt that it's not really my fault (at least not entirely), but it seems that she is more angry than me. It happened yesterday, and since then she's not really talking and I'm rather sad because of it.

Basically what happened was this: we were chatting, and she said something, and apparently due to some strange technical reason, I only got one of her messages partially. Then I asked her the same question, but her reply was somehow rude, and then after that, when I tried to explain, she said "whatever", which I think is also a little rude. It's her nonchalant and "don't care" attitude that bugs me a little, I guess.....
So I just complained a little (very politely) and told her that she could've been more considerate towards me.
So yeah that's basically it.....and she is angry at me now and I don't really know what to do. I want to know you guys's opinions.....you can be 100% honest and I won't be offended if it's really my mistake. I just want to know if what I said was really that bad that she got so offended....

Here's our chat:


she: salut
me: Hi there!!!!!!
it's been quite a while since I saw you here.....!!
she: ?
me: got my message?
she: f**** WLAN
me: yes as always
did you get my first message?
she: no
me: Hi there!!!!!! ^^
it's been quite a while since I saw you here.....!!
she: yup
me: I missed our chats
she: well yeah
thx
how r u?
me: I'm great, thanks!!!!
and you??
what've you been up to today??
she: a lot (she said more stuff after this bit, but I only got this)
me: right.....
are you busy?
she: now no
just tired
me: what did you do? (hence I asked again because I didn't know what she really did)
she: I just told you
oh god you make me crazy (a little rude)
me: you didn't tell me
you just said "a lot"
she: groceries, market, laundry, decorated my room, cooking (the extra stuff that didn't get delivered)
I wrote that too
me: but I didn't see those (I tried to explain)
she: whatever (a little rude again)
me: "me: I'm great, thanks!!!!
and you??
what've you been doing today??
she: a lot
me: right.....
me: are you busy?"
there, if you don't believe me
she: you don't have to copy paste it
!!!!!!
me: but it's annoying and it upsets me when you say things like "oh god you make me crazy"
you get irritated really easily by small stuff....I don't understand why, and this is not the first time either....
she: right?
me: right what?
she: nothing
me: Please be a little more considerate......
you could've said it more nicely....and as you can see, I did not get that message
she: how can I know that you didn't get it?
in my history it is displayed
me: I guess that's caz it was sent from your end
but didn't reach me
she: yes whatever
me: I apologise if I offended you in any way....
but I just felt a little hurt too by what you said....
that's all
but please nevermind it okay??
I want to make peace now....let's not fight or get angry over this....
she: you're not the reason for me being okay or not
me: but you seem to get hurt by what I said.....
she: maybe
me: oh come on sweetheart!! =) =)
she: yeah
me: I don't want you to think that I deliberately hurt you.....far from it.........but I just thought that I had to make known what I felt, that's all. It was in no way intended to hurt you.....no way.....
she: I know
could we finish this now here?
me: sure
are we okay now?
she: no
me: what do I do so you forgive me?
she: Nothing

[Angela]

This is your girlfriend?!?!? Put that stupid machine down and go TALK to her IN PERSON! Geesh.

[zpivat]

Well we do talk over the phone too, but do online chat too. It just so happened that we were chatting, that's all.

I did end up calling her, and she just asked "why did you call me??" and acted irritated and all that.....

[NotesMaeve]

You're kind of a drama queen. I'd be annoyed with you, too. If I just explain some additional text should have been there and a guy blathers on about how he "doesn't want to hurt me," I would be irked. It's SO not a big deal. It looks like you're looking to inject emotion where there is none.

[zpivat]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

You're kind of a drama queen. I'd be annoyed with you, too. If I just explain some additional text should have been there and a guy blathers on about how he "doesn't want to hurt me," I would be irked. It's SO not a big deal. It looks like you're looking to inject emotion where there is none.

I guess you completely missed my point. I did NOT want to inject any emotion at all.
She's a difficult person who gets irritated easily (and she even admits that herself, she also admitted that she's not that easy to be with). She's done this a couple of times but I just let it go, but this time I "exploded" a little because I thought it was so rude that she said how I made her crazy, and also when I tried to explain, she didn't even care.....
I just couldn't let it go again or else she'd just trample on me and think that she can be bitchy any way she wants......

[geekchic9]

Originally Posted by zpivat

this time I "exploded" a little because I thought it was so rude that she said how I made her crazy, and also when I tried to explain, she didn't even care.....
I just couldn't let it go again or else she'd just trample on me and think that she can be bitchy any way she wants......

Why are you dating her? She treats you horribly. You deserve much better.

[Brutha]

she: salut
me: Hi there!!!!!!
it's been quite a while since I saw you here.....!!

Starting a conversation with attacking the other person for not being online enough is not really smart. You project a victim mentality and label her the aggressor, which puts you into a low power position.
(note that the intention of your conversation is irrevelant, and that the text can be read that way)

she: a lot (she said more stuff after this bit, but I only got this)
me: right.....
are you busy?
she: now no
just tired
me: what did you do? (hence I asked again because I didn't know what she really did)

She gave you an answer, you responded that her answer is inadequate.
As a pretense of the conversation you give her the obligation to tell her all about her day. When you are in a low power position you can't control a conversation like that.
Then she "punched back" a little with "oh god you make me crazy", rejecting the obligation to tell her everything about your day. That is the natural flow of the conversation.

me: but it's annoying and it upsets me when you say things like "oh god you make me crazy"
you get irritated really easily by small stuff....I don't understand why, and this is not the first time either....

Your projecting there I would guess.
In addition calling another person inconsiderate, because she doesn't let you dominate the conversation (and allow you to disrespect her answers), makes you seem like a control freak.

she: you're not the reason for me being okay or not
me: but you seem to get hurt by what I said.....
she: maybe
me: oh come on sweetheart!! =) =)

Another attempt from you to "control" the status of the relationship.
She says you aren't really important to her, but you can't accept that.

me: I don't want you to think that I deliberately hurt you.....far from it.........but I just thought that I had to make known what I felt, that's all. It was in no way intended to hurt you.....no way.....

This lowers again your power over the relationship (in the conversation). In addition it increases the importance of the event, because you want to overcontrol the conversation (out of a low power position).

me: sure
are we okay now?
she: no
me: what do I do so you forgive me?
she: Nothing

You show that you don't understand her and think that adding additional pressure by requesting her forgiveness does anything to help you.

Conversations in general have a certain flow. You break the flow, and except her make a better conversation.

You express your concerns over her communication "but it's annoying and it upsets me when you say things like "oh god you make me crazy" and apologise later for it. That damages your own integrity.

You're kind of a drama queen. I'd be annoyed with you, too. If I just explain some additional text should have been there and a guy blathers on about how he "doesn't want to hurt me," I would be irked. It's SO not a big deal. It looks like you're looking to inject emotion where there is none.

And don't understand the emotions that were there.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by zpivat

I guess you completely missed my point. I did NOT want to inject any emotion at all.
She's a difficult person who gets irritated easily (and she even admits that herself, she also admitted that she's not that easy to be with). She's done this a couple of times but I just let it go, but this time I "exploded" a little because I thought it was so rude that she said how I made her crazy, and also when I tried to explain, she didn't even care.....
I just couldn't let it go again or else she'd just trample on me and think that she can be bitchy any way she wants......

No, I didn't. As Angela preaches: 100% responsibility. You seemed to be very emotional and agree you "exploded." Next time, try saying, "Oh, I didn't get all of the message. Weird." Then move on to another topic.

And I agree 100% with Brutha's post.

I thought Slamhot was mad at me today for example. Know what I did? I said, "Oh, I wasn't trying to make you mad. I just wanted to know ___. So how is work?" Explanation. Clarification. Change topic.

[zpivat]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Starting a conversation with attacking the other person for not being online enough is not really smart. You project a victim mentality and label her the aggressor, which puts you into a low power position.
(note that the intention of your conversation is irrevelant, and that the text can be read that way)
She gave you an answer, you responded that her answer is inadequate.
As a pretense of the conversation you give her the obligation to tell her all about her day. When you are in a low power position you can't control a conversation like that.
Then she "punched back" a little with "oh god you make me crazy", rejecting the obligation to tell her everything about your day. That is the natural flow of the conversation.
Your projecting there I would guess.
In addition calling another person inconsiderate, because she doesn't let you dominate the conversation (and allow you to disrespect her answers), makes you seem like a control freak.

Another attempt from you to "control" the status of the relationship.
She says you aren't really important to her, but you can't accept that.
This lowers again your power over the relationship (in the conversation). In addition it increases the importance of the event, because you want to overcontrol the conversation (out of a low power position).
You show that you don't understand her and think that adding additional pressure by requesting her forgiveness does anything to help you.

Conversations in general have a certain flow. You break the flow, and except her make a better conversation.

You express your concerns over her communication "but it's annoying and it upsets me when you say things like "oh god you make me crazy" and apologise later for it. That damages your own integrity.

And don't understand the emotions that were there.

I appreciate the response Brutha. Danke schön.

First of all, I wasn't attacking her not being online, and that's absolutely not the centre point of my message.......and that's not what caused the problem either. Everything started off very friendly (trust me....afterall I know about us better.)
I can understand why you typed what you typed above, but I guess that's because you don't know her as a person, as well as the very exact nature of our situation, which is okay though...afterall this is the Internet and it can be hard to describe things trully accurately.

So I will make it clear to you so that we don't overcomplicate things. What annoyed her is the fact that I asked her twice. She thought she already told me what she did and the fact that I asked the second time (because I didn't get the message) annoyed her.......
It's as simple as that.....

To tell you the truth (and trust me, I am not making up any of what I am saying in this thread) she admitted multiple times that with her ex boyfriends, she used to fight and complain, and they got annoyed at her too. For example one time she was staying at a (cheap) youth hostel with an ex, but she didn't like it (preferred a "real" hotel instead) and made a big deal out of it, and even admitted (to me) to being snobbish and arrogant about it.

And once she told me this very sentence "I know that I'm not that easy to be together with, and I can be difficult too, but I do have lovely sides....a guy just has to know how to take me"
She also once admitted to being resentful, and that it takes her a little while to forgive someone......

BUT.......I didn't realise she was THIS sensitive though.

[zpivat]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

No, I didn't. As Angela preaches: 100% responsibility. You seemed to be very emotional and agree you "exploded." Next time, try saying, "Oh, I didn't get all of the message. Weird." Then move on to another topic.

I totally agree with you NotesMaeve....in fact, I am and have been that kind of person (the way you mentioned above) towards her. Until yesterday, I have been so laid back and a take-it-easy person.....but she keeps acting like that over very small things and somehow I couldn't take it anymore? I'm only human you know.....

[NotesMaeve]

There you go. Look, it isn't that I have no sympathy. My boyfriend has a horrible illness that affects his mood and he can be short-tempered. The question is, is dealing with this worth it?

[Brutha]

First of all, I wasn't attacking her not being online, and that's absolutely not the centre point of my message.......and that's not what caused the problem either. Everything started off very friendly (trust me....afterall I know about us better.)

I didn't said you intenteded to attack her. What you intented when you wrote the above segment is relativly insignificant.

And once she told me this very sentence "I know that I'm not that easy to be together with, and I can be difficult too, but I do have lovely sides....a guy just has to know how to take me"
She also once admitted to being resentful, and that it takes her a little while to forgive someone......

Translation: I want a guy who knows what he wants. Someone who projects power, instead of someone who likes to be the victim.

trust me....afterall I know about us better[...]
BUT.......I didn't realise she was THIS sensitive though.

You don't need to be much sensitive to feel attacked by your communication.

To tell you the truth (and trust me, I am not making up any of what I am saying in this thread) she admitted multiple times that with her ex boyfriends, she used to fight and complain, and they got annoyed at her too.

Allocating blame to her won't help you.
Taking responsibility does.

So I will make it clear to you so that we don't overcomplicate things. What annoyed her is the fact that I asked her twice. She thought she already told me what she did and the fact that I asked the second time (because I didn't get the message) annoyed her.......
It's as simple as that.....

How do you know?
Unfortunatly communication isn't that easy. The thing people intend to say and the thing that the other person receives is often something different.

That produces communication problems. You probably have the similar problems in other conversations with her and think she "acts wrong", because you don't understand the reasons for her behavior.
Asking her to explain it to you won't help you either, because you won't change you framework but interpret your explanation inside that framework. (in addition the story that she tells herself doesn't have to be accurate either)

[zpivat]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

There you go. Look, it isn't that I have no sympathy. My boyfriend has a horrible illness that affects his mood and he can be short-tempered. The question is, is dealing with this worth it?

Well no, of course it's not worth it.....I just thought that if I always kept quiet about it, then she'd think that she can easily trample on me and acts bitchy....
So far when she does this, she's been the one that ends up apologising though....

[NotesMaeve]

Is the relationship worth it?

[zpivat]

Originally Posted by Brutha

How do you know?
Unfortunatly communication isn't that easy. The thing people intend to say and the thing that the other person receives is often something different.

Yes I agree.....!! Even people talking face-to-face can misunderstand each other. Let alone online chats....

How do I know that's what annoyed her? Well caz I asked her. After the chat, I phoned and asked her why she changed drastically (she left suddenly by the way) and first, she told me that she got annoyed that I asked twice, and second, she got annoyed that I got annoyed by her rudeness, and told me that she didn't realise the message wasn't transmitted (and I didn't blame her for that), and that she had a right to tell me that I made her crazy.....

It's kind of hard to explain, really, simply because you don't know her personally, so it's kinda tricky to explain the situations.

In general she's nice and I care about her a lot, but she can be so negative about life, and constantly complains about things. I constantly try to cheer her up, but she always tries to find a way to "negativitise" (it's a made up word ) the situation.....
She'd complain about pizza, about her dad, about her mum (to whom, by the way, she wasn't talking for days, over silly things too!), about university. She gets annoyed if I wear t-shirt and asks me to wear a camisa or polo instead. Heck, she even mocked me and called me green, beginner, for having been intimate with only 2 girls. Not that I can't get girls; I do know a lot of them and had my chances, but I don't just do it with anyone and I want to do it only to those with whom I feel a strong connection.

She has great qualities too and that's what I love about her......and in fact.....I actually am in love with her. I've been wanting to tell her that lately, but I am having my doubts now and consider postponing until I can be sure if it's really worth it.

Her voice is so beautiful though

[zpivat]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

Is the relationship worth it?

To tell you the truth, I am confused. I want to make this work, but if she's constantly negative (not just about me, but with many things in life), I don't know how a good future can be sustained.

I guess I should take it a little more slowly and see how things develop. I'm used to dealing with problems instead of running away from them, so I hope this will work well.....

Afterall, nobody is perfect, and neither am I, but part of loving someone, I guess, is seeing perfections in their imperfections.
(What I love about her are things like her commitment to life and her studies, her love for children (she said she wants 4 or 5 later on!), and when she's in the right mood she's very romantic too.)

[Rose of Cairo]

I must say, although Brutha says it in a very german dry manner ( Brutha), I totally agree with him! and with NotesMaeve. I don't find she treats you horribly. First, this really wasn't a big deal, so "whatever" is not rude. Second, she's defensive, but that's normal when you see how you talk to her. I would have been much more rude in her situation!

I know it's not your intention to be controling, but you are. Listen at what you're saying:
long time no seen
I missed you
are you busy
did you get my msg
what have you done
this puts a lot of pressure on her.

and then, a LOT of reproaches, with one clear msg: you often behave wrong and because of you I'm feeling bad

and all the time you are weak:
please
I apologize
forgive me
i don't want to hurt you
and so on
so she cannot be angry because you are sooooo kind...

this manner of being very controling out of a weak position and making people feeling guilty is called manipulation and emotional exortion.

it's very efficient, obviously. she even apologized.

it's normal that she reacts defensive and angry. I even got angry just by reading the conversation.

[zpivat]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I must say, although Brutha says it in a very german dry manner ( Brutha), I totally agree with him! and with NotesMaeve. I don't find she treats you horribly. First, this really wasn't a big deal, so "whatever" is not rude. Second, she's defensive, but that's normal when you see how you talk to her. I would have been much more rude in her situation!

I know it's not your intention to be controling, but you are. Listen at what you're saying:
long time no seen
I missed you
are you busy
did you get my msg
what have you done
this puts a lot of pressure on her.

and then, a LOT of reproaches, with one clear msg: you often behave wrong and because of you I'm feeling bad

and all the time you are weak:
please
I apologize
forgive me
i don't want to hurt you
and so on
so she cannot be angry because you are sooooo kind...

this manner of being very controling out of a weak position and making people feeling guilty is called manipulation and emotional exortion.

it's very efficient, obviously. she even apologized.

it's normal that she reacts defensive and angry. I even got angry just by reading the conversation.

I appreciate the feedback. Keep it coming please . Obviously I have a lot to learn in relationships, and it is from mistakes and others' insights that I can grow, I guess.

Yeah, the "whatever" in this context might not be so serious, but the problem is that she says that so often it gets so damn annoying. (Ironically, she keeps telling me that she is very annoyed by people who keep saying "whatever", while she does so very often herself.)

As I kept saying, the only reason why she got annoyed is because I mistakenly asked her the same question twice; that's it. And I didn't really like how she mentioned that I made her crazy.

No, she did not apologise. (Pls read carefully )

She is German, by the way.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by zpivat

Well no, of course it's not worth it.....I just thought that if I always kept quiet about it, then she'd think that she can easily trample on me and acts bitchy....
So far when she does this, she's been the one that ends up apologising though....

I DO read carefully.
I don't think you had this strategy only once. You do this because you learnt that it is generally efficient. as she generally apologizes.
btw, the reason someone says they get angry is not always the real reason why they get angry. often people are not aware they are being manipulated. they just feel uncomfortable and explain their anger somehow.
I would act bitchy too if my bf was doing to me what you do to her.
but I would not apologize

[zpivat]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I DO read carefully.
I don't think you had this strategy only once. You do this because you learnt that it is generally efficient. as she generally apologizes.
btw, the reason someone says they get angry is not always the real reason why they get angry. often people are not aware they are being manipulated. they just feel uncomfortable and explain their anger somehow.
I would act bitchy too if my bf was doing to me what you do to her.
but I would not apologize

No you didn't read carefully...I'll tell you why....
I mentioned that so far, I have always let it go! She has acted like this (bitchin' over small stuff) multiple times, but I literally let it go (i.e: said nothing at all, and immediately moved on to other subjects). Yet she ended up apologising right after saying what she said, and she did so without my intervention at all, without my confronting her whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I don't think you had this strategy only once.

Wrong. It's not correct to say that I've been using some "strategy" to manipulate her or anything, simply because I have done nothing. Absolutely nothing. However, though, yesterday I got tired of it, and it was the very first time that I decided to pursue it, simply because I could no longer stand her short temper!
I mean, seriously, she even constantly fights with her mum and dad. Doesn't that tell you something??

I on the other hand don't fight and in fact never fight with anyone else; have lots of friends, and get along very well with everyone. It's only with her that I'm having this kind of issue.

[Lauxa]

What I'm reading from Brutha et al is that you shouldn't have asked twice. By asking twice you were implying that her answer was insufficient and putting her on the defensive. If the only answer she chooses to give is "a lot" then maybe she wants a little privacy and you shouldn't push it. It doesn't even matter that you missed some of the information, because your message to her is the same, your answer was wrong, here, I will ask again, please provide a better answer. Maybe you should talk about what you did that day instead.

Second piece of advice, my husband and I have a mutual agreement that "whatever" is a fightin' word. When one of us tosses out a "whatever", the usual response by the other is "them're fightin' words." Your response to "whatever" was to counter-attack by explaining that she was wrong to attack you. This is the wrong approach, since "whatever" is usually used from a defensive position, then you are only serving to put her further on the defensive. The "fightin' words" response allows the person to explain why they are feeling attacked and can deescalate the conflict.

[zpivat]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

What I'm reading from Brutha et al is that you shouldn't have asked twice. By asking twice you were implying that her answer was insufficient and putting her on the defensive. If the only answer she chooses to give is "a lot" then maybe she wants a little privacy and you shouldn't push it. It doesn't even matter that you missed some of the information, because your message to her is the same, your answer was wrong, here, I will ask again, please provide a better answer. Maybe you should talk about what you did that day instead.

Thanks for the feedback Lauxa .

Well she wrote more than "a lot", but due to a technical glitch, the rest didn't get delivered.
It wasn't that she got defensive because my answer implied insufficiency in her answer, it's because miniscule things (including ones that are unrelated to me) irritate her very easily......

[10kc]

Wrong. It's not correct to say that I've been using some "strategy" to manipulate her or anything, simply because I have done nothing. Absolutely nothing.

See, right there was your mistake.

If you two have an on-going problem, ignoring it isn't going to do you any good. Remember: 100% responsibility. If your girlfriend behaves in a way that drives you nuts, it is your problem.

However, though, yesterday I got tired of it, and it was the very first time that I decided to pursue it, simply because I could no longer stand her short temper!

So you've finally decided to deal with the issues, straight on. That was a good decision. The question is - how should your pursue it? What's the course of action you should take, in order to solve the problem?

I don't pertend to have the answers. But I think we can both agree that getting angry at her is a lousy strategy. It is a perfectly understandable human reaction, but it still is a lousy strategy which won't get either of you anywhere.

I mean, seriously, she even constantly fights with her mum and dad. Doesn't that tell you something??

Yes. It tells me that if you want a working relationship with her, it will require a lot of hard work from both of you.

I on the other hand don't fight and in fact never fight with anyone else; have lots of friends, and get along very well with everyone. It's only with her that I'm having this kind of issue.

In other words, you're the stronger one, emotionally.

According to your own statements, you are the stronger and more mature person in this relationship. And the conclusion is inevitable: You're the only one who has the needed mental strength to get you both out of this mess. Don't expect her to cooperate immediately, because she won't. And you'll need to muster every bit of personal control to address the situation without loosing your temper.

I'm not claiming that it's fair. It isn't fair at all, really. But these are the facts, fair or not.

Now you know what you're facing. So ask yourself: Is the relationship worth it? Do you love her so much, that you're willing to make such an unbalanced effort towards a resolution? Only you can answer this question.

[Brutha]

Wrong. It's not correct to say that I've been using some "strategy" to manipulate her or anything, simply because I have done nothing.

A strategy is a way of doing things.
It doesn't really matter whether you use the strategy that you use in a conversation intentionally or don't. (in general it is better to intentionally pick one, but that is another story)

Talking about conversation strategy's and the power dynamics of a conversation takes place at a meta level.
As long as you don't go to that meta level, you won't understand the situation.

I mean, seriously, she even constantly fights with her mum and dad. Doesn't that tell you something??

That you don't want to take responsibilty for your own communication?

she: well yeah

As a response to your first communication. To me that doesn't sound really excited.
It is certainly not enough for her to feel anoyed but it sets the mood for the conversation.

How do I know that's what annoyed her? Well caz I asked her. After the chat, I phoned and asked her why she changed drastically (she left suddenly by the way) and first, she told me that she got annoyed that I asked twice, and second, she got annoyed that I got annoyed by her rudeness, and told me that she didn't realise the message wasn't transmitted (and I didn't blame her for that), and that she had a right to tell me that I made her crazy.....

People seldom get annoyed by the content of a sentence. They get annoyed by the energy transmitted by the sentence.

She knows what you said to her and that she got annoyed. Then she constructs a story where what you said to her got her annoyed. Human beings work that way
Unfortunatly that doesn't tell you the whole story of what happened in the conversation.
It only tell you what happened on the content level.
It doesn't tell you what happened on the energy/power flow meta level.

[Tuumble]

Originally Posted by zpivat

me: Hi there!!!!!! ^^
it's been quite a while since I saw you here.....!!
she: yup
me: I missed our chats
she: well yeah
thx
how r u?

I thought this last response a bit odd. She didn't say: 'Me too.' it was a bit wishy-washy. It's almost as if she was going through the motions.

me: I'm great, thanks!!!!
and you??
what've you been up to today??
she: a lot (she said more stuff after this bit, but I only got this)
me: right.....
are you busy?

Based on what you received your reply was quite dismissive. It almost sounded disinterested and that you wanted to move on to what you wanted to say. The trouble is is that 'are you busy?' could be interpretted in different ways. The way I read it (above) or as a general statement. Which way did she read it?

she: now no
just tired

That could be a signal that she didn't really want a long conversation and once feelings escalated it may be that you got the full brunt of someone who was over tired and irritable.

me: what did you do? (hence I asked again because I didn't know what she really did)
she: I just told you
oh god you make me crazy (a little rude)
me: you didn't tell me
you just said "a lot"
she: groceries, market, laundry, decorated my room, cooking (the extra stuff that didn't get delivered)
I wrote that too
me: but I didn't see those (I tried to explain)
she: whatever (a little rude again)
me: "me: I'm great, thanks!!!!
and you??
what've you been doing today??
she: a lot
me: right.....
me: are you busy?"
there, if you don't believe me

I think this was probably a mistake. I understand your reasons for doing it but trying to prove a point at that moment was unlikely to be well recieved.

What came after was a mixture of attacking her and her on the defensive but you did try to make up. Unfortunately I think it was probably too late by that point.

If she was tired and had a hard day I guess you were on to a loser. I don't pretend it's easy but you need to spot the signs and cut some slack.

If your relationship is strong enough you will be able to overcome this and look back on it as an unfortunate episode.

We all have misunderstandings - I hope it works out for you.

[emeraldbaby]

Hi zvipat,

I think some ppl missed your point that this isn't an one-off occurrence, that you've had to put up with it for a while, and her negativity is quite pervasive. That's actually a big red flag for me.

It's hard dealing with an easily irritated person, it's like having to walk on eggshells all the time. I think it's a bit harsh to say that you played the victim when you may have been trained to be one. (you know - "oh she'll change, she's not that bad, she didn't blow up when i did this, so if i do this and don't do that, things will get better).

may be you did push your gf at the 'wrong' time, but i really can't see what other people are saying about you being manipulative etc. I could easily say that your gf also blew the whole thing out of proportion and manipulated you with her anger, knowing you'll back down?

I do think you can learn from the other posts, regarding how to communicate. You went from "this is hurtful" to "what can i do to make YOU feel better" too quickly because you don't want to lose her and "think" this is the response she wants. That's an assumption that you probably need to explore. Take some time to look at the treasure trove of articles/discussions here on how to focus on improving yourself and fulfilling your needs, which will in turn improve your relationship with others.

anyway, I sympathize with you. I hope you don't become one of those people who learn to curtail their action and speech just to avoid a negative reaction from their partner.

all the best,

eb

[Brutha]

I think some ppl missed your point that this isn't an one-off occurrence, that you've had to put up with it for a while,

No, it is likely that he has the same problem that he had in this conversation on regulary basis with her.

I think it's a bit harsh to say that you played the victim when you may have been trained to be one.

I don't doubt that he "has been trained" to act like a victim. That explains his way of communicating. But it doesn't mean that he isn't responsible for behaving like that.
In addition he would get other results if he wouldn't behave like a victim.
Stating truth is harsh, but talking around it doesn't help him.

I could easily say that your gf also blew the whole thing out of proportion and manipulated you with her anger, knowing you'll back down?

The fact that it is easy to reject taking responsibilty for your actions doesn't mean that it is the benifitial.
Taking responsibilty is the hard way, but it puts you into a situation where you can do something and better the relationship.

anyway, I sympathize with you. I hope you don't become one of those people who learn to curtail their action and speech just to avoid a negative reaction from their partner.

That isn't what we (Brutha et al ) are proposing.
The problem isn't so much doing things that make her say "you drive me crazy", it is rather not taking responsibilty for it and blaming her for it, when it is the result of his own communication.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

It doesn't even matter that you missed some of the information, because your message to her is the same, your answer was wrong, here, I will ask again, please provide a better answer.

I think Lauxa hit the nail on the head here. And as I think Brutha was saying (in different words) this is your habitual mode of communication. You are certainly being that here in this thread. "WRONG!" you told someone here. Try again! and this is a dance, ebbing and flowing between being right, making the other person wrong, and avoiding being abandoned.

You say you are in love with this woman, but you complain that she is so negative that maybe you shouldn't tell her you are in love with her. You do not accept her exactly as she is and exactly as she isn't. That has nothing to do with her; it has everything to do with you.

Even if you choose to exit this relationship, you would be wise to create a space of freedom for her and for yourself -- accept who she is and who she isn't, and let go of trying to change her. Trying to change someone is not an act of love. (accepting is not condoning, by the way.)
and of course you know the first step to accepting others exactly who they are and who they are not, right?

[zpivat]

Originally Posted by Brutha

People seldom get annoyed by the content of a sentence. They get annoyed by the energy transmitted by the sentence.

Arggghhh the Internet!!!!!!!
What I meant by "transmitted" in "she got annoyed that I got annoyed by her rudeness, and told me that she didn't realise the message wasn't transmitted" is that what she typed was not transmitted properly through the cyber space.....(bad Internet connection may be...)

Yes during chats sometimes she appears cold and indifferent because she often does many things altogether. She may have been tired and annoyed by other things too, that day, though.
(In person she's warmer....in fact the day before she called me just to say that she missed me and how happy she was that we were speaking.)

[emeraldbaby]

Hi Brutha,

I do hear you. and I do believe in taking responsibility.

However, I just feel zvipat was still looking for acknowledgement...he stressed the same point (about his gf's constant irritability) for a couple of posts, and I wanted to acknowledge that so he can move on.

It seems that some people have grown from a lot of experience, from years of PD, from awareness training etc etc, and it just seems to me as if these people cannot remember what it was like to REALLY NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO...to really take the 1st step. At least that's what this thread made me feel...more judgemental and less encouraging than others.

I was once a miserable little B**CH before I took responsibility for myself. I've treated some people badly for reasons unconnected to them. Because of my history, I tend to also think that the gf contributed to the problem. Sure Zvipat can do better at communicating, but he can't be the sole cause of her negative relationship with so many ppl (parents, ex's)? Surely she's responsible for that.

My point still is - Zvipat, it wasn't completely your fault, to feel anger, doubt, frustration etc. However, you did attract this gf into your life, there is a reason for that, and I hope you can explore and grow from it