Vegan and Thanksgiving

[gberardi]

Since I made my decision to cut animal-based food from my diet, I knew this day would come, and just yesterday I realized that it was a week away! Thanksgiving is almost here, and that means attending dinners...

...which means having to turn down all sorts of food that has been slaved over and painstakingly prepared for me. B-(

A vegetarian friend of mine told me that it is good etiquette to bring something to the meal myself. Since I am still new to being vegan, I'm still learning about what meals I can prepare. I am afraid that my diet is no more diverse than it was when I wasn't so concerned about what I eat; I have simply replaced certain staples with other staples.

Anyway, Thanksgiving. I have two questions:

What do you suggest I bring? I don't want to bring just whole apples and grapes and call it a meal.

How much should I bring? Enough for me, or enough for everyone?


EDIT: Also, I figured that this post had more to do with relationships, but if you think it is more appropriate in a different forum, feel free to move my post.

[Erin Pavlina]

I definitely have advice for you as I've experienced this very thing.

My suggestion is that you bring three dishes so that if none of their dishes are vegan, you will have enough to eat from the three dishes you brought yourself. I would bring enough to feed half of the expected guests and make sure you get first crack at those dishes.

Don't worry about turning down other dishes and hurting people's feelings. I always showed appreciation for their effort, example, "Wow, that looks so delicious. I'm sure it tastes wonderful."

If it were me, I would bring two side dishes and one dessert item. I wouldn't try to bring a whole Tofurkey or anything. however, I might bring a side of tofurkey for me and my family. Then I would bring like baked sweet potatoes, fresh rosemary bread or green bean casserole. Or a big salad, or a fruit platter.

[gberardi]

Actually, right after I posted, I decided that I should probably go where other people might go to find out: VegFamily magazine - Raising Vegan Children, Vegan Pregnancy, and Vegan Recipes. I made a note to finally order your cookbook tonight (I've been good at procrastinating since you sent me that message many months ago).

I found the articles to be quite apropos, specifically: Ask the Editor - VegFamily.com

I feel much better armed to handle any kind of snarky comment I get my way. B-)

This article also gave me some ideas for sides to bring: The Vegan Holiday Table

[Lotus]

"Snarky comments" ... LOL.

I'm the only veg in a huge family that all get together for the holidays. I get lots of "missing out" comments, and "you're nuts, this is delicious" comments.

You won't hurt anyone's feelings if you're tactful, like Erin described. If you get lots of "why????" questions shot at you, it's usually easier to say that since dropping animal products, you feel a lot better. Whatever you do... don't cite any stats. Trust me... citing research will invoke a 16 to 1 debate which you probably aren't equipped to defend against at this period in time.

PETA sent me a Tofurky last year when I won a "turkeys are cool" story contest last year (or the year before? I don't remember when it was.) Tofurky is not something I'd normally buy, but it's not bad.

Make yourself responsible for your meal. If you just take some apples and grapes, everyone will look at you and think that veganism implies poverty. Go all out -- make something so tasty that even the omnis will be wanting it. I always try to take several vegan dishes, like Erin suggested, and I share them. Also take a dessert... even if you don't eat much (or any) of it. People tend to be particularly weird about missing out on sweeeeeets.

[Pooka]

I'm on a thirty-day vegetarianism trial, and I was wondering how I would deal with this situation myself, come Thanksgiving. These are all great, tactful ways of dealing with the situation-- I was previously planning to just hope that in the bustle of serving everyone in my huge family, no one would notice that I didn't take any meat. Not the best plan of action at all, I'll admit-- so thanks for posting this, gberardi.

[gberardi]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Whatever you do... don't cite any stats. Trust me... citing research will invoke a 16 to 1 debate which you probably aren't equipped to defend against at this period in time.

Hah! My father is the one who will say "9 times out of 10" even when he doesn't actually know any such statistic, so even if I was prepared to defend myself, it wouldn't matter because some people are just convinced they are right. B-)

Thanks for the advice, everyone!

[madgeylou]

i'm a vegetarian who avoids milk/cheese/eggs almost all the time (nearly vegan but not quite) and i'm planning on eating a lot of side dishes. i will indulge in things that have dairy in them, since it's a special occasion, but i will probably mostly fill up on salad.

i'm also going to bring a ton of delicious vegan cupcakes, from the new book "vegan cupcakes take over the world." i'm not telling anyone they are vegan, though, till after they are eaten. they are amazing and you would never know the difference unless someone told you.

my suggestion is bring something delicious that you can eat but dont make a big show out of not eating the other stuff.

[Jaben]

From my experience the words vegetarian and vegan seem to really turn many people off. When you explain that you are vegan they'll be concerned for your health and if you justify the choice it will strengthen their opinion that you're depriving yourself, have lost your mind and will wither away and die if you don't snap out of it. This negativity will affect how they feel about any food you bring to share as well.

However, one handy fact is that pretty much any animal product has cholesterol and pretty much everyone agrees cholesterol is bad for you. So if you say you are avoiding cholesterol and transfat, eating more vegetables and fruit and feel great they will respect you and not have a negative association with eating the food you bring.

I agree you should go all out and make several delicious dishes to impress. You can politely state their dishes look delicious so they're feelings aren't hurt, but you are on a special diet. I would suggest not bringing anything with imitation meats or tofu. And don't use the words vegan or vegetarian unless you want to spark a debate.

It seems vegans I know use these times as oportunities to educate people. If you reach a few, it may be worth the sacrifice. However I think a subtle approach that gets people to enjoy your vegan dishes would probably be better. It is fun though to ask the children, "so is the dead animal on your plate tasty?" Especially when they then ask their parents, "Are you going to eat me when I die?"

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Jaben

It is fun though to ask the children, "so is the dead animal on your plate tasty?" Especially when they then ask their parents, "Are you going to eat me when I die?"

ROTFLOL!! OMG, you do not?

I have pointed out to children that "hamburger" is actually dead cow. "Lamb is baby sheep!" "You know those fluffy little chicks you see at easter? Yeah, grow up to be 'chicken dinner'." You're welcome, mom and dad; good luck with your little veggie.

But I don't have the balls to do it to anyone in my family over the holidays. I catch enough flack for ME trying to avoid aminals. I even made them watch "Meet Your Meat" one year. It didn't phase anyone like I had hoped. Mostly I got, "I bet PETA staged that." Now, being vegan, this made me crap myself. But people who have their minds made up to have thier minds made up will not change through outside forces. I've given up on a lot of them. I just flaunt my excellent cholesterol and skinny vegan-ness at them. And when I cook for them, they get good, non-violent food.

[gberardi]

Originally Posted by Jaben

From my experience the words vegetarian and vegan seem to really turn many people off.

Just yesterday my girlfriend informed my friend about my choice. This friend is the kind who would probably point out that my jacket or shoes are made of dead animal just to make me realize that I didn't think things through. I cut him off to say that I am doing it for health reasons, and he actually had nothing to say about it other than that I was giving up "real" pizza.

But yeah, I would prefer if my girlfriend would not "out" me like that. B-) It really does spark a debate, and I can see already that it will get tiring or boring to have to defend my choice.

It is fun though to ask the children, "so is the dead animal on your plate tasty?" Especially when they then ask their parents, "Are you going to eat me when I die?"

LOL! Has that actually happened to you?

By the way, these past few days, I realized that there is a whole new world of jokes that I can get.

[gberardi]

Originally Posted by Lotus

But people who have their minds made up to have thier minds made up will not change through outside forces.

And that's why diet is just like politics and religion. You don't talk about it in polite company. B-)

[Jaben]

Originally Posted by gberardi

LOL! Has that actually happened to you?

Yes, however it wasn' t thanksgiving and it was with close family, my sisters' children. I actually used the term dead bodies, rather than dead animals. And when my sister who is vegetarian friendly walked in the room her daughter told her what I had said. And she agreed, saying yes it is from a dead PIG body. Then when my other sister's husband walked in, his daughter asked, "When I die are you going to eat me?" He just told her not to listen to uncle Jaben.

After that meal we had icecream. I set my chocolate soy dream on the counter and the adults were serving the dessert and bringing it out to the children. I served my son chocolate soy dream and the other's all go vanilla Bryer's. When I brought my son's plate the other children asked why they didn't get a choice of chocolate or vanilla. I asked them to bring that up with their parents.

It's amazing how emotionally tied to cow and chicken secretions people can be. Young children don't have those preconceptions.

Have you ever told someone who was eating an Oreo cookie that it is vegan or ask if the icecream bars they are offering are vegan? They'll say something to the effect of you never know these days, everything is being substituted with cheap imitation ingredients

I've been pretty open with my opinions, especially with my close family. But, if I were to become vegan all over again I think I would be more tactful and also avoid the words vegan or vegetarian in most social settings. I think most people will embrace the idea of increasing consumption of fruits and vegetables but are very turned off by those two words. Refering to meat and dairy as dead animals and reproductive secretions is so much fun though ... I've already employed Steve's pet chasing joke and I'd like to use the term puss burger and mucus shake some time too

[Gautam]

to avoid hurting anyone's feelings, just take a taste out of the gravy or just take a long hard sniff at the dish and tell them how delicious that is..

[Gautam]

Originally Posted by Jaben

puss burger and mucus shake some time too

LMAO !

[bix]

From my experience the words vegetarian and vegan seem to really turn many people off. ... It is fun though to ask the children, "so is the dead animal on your plate tasty?" Especially when they then ask their parents, "Are you going to eat me when I die?"

I guess the last two sentences above explain the first one. It is completely distasteful and rude to emotionally harm a child on something you are not ready to fight over with the adults. I will make sure that cheapshots like you stay away from my house.

[Cassie]

I think its great you're going vegan for Thanksgiving. You're an inspiration to us all. Usually I've found that there is so much prepared food I *could* eat, hardly anyone notices if I sneak off with a plate filled with veggies and casserole and no turkey. One year I "adopted" a turkey for Thanksgiving. I brought her meals at the animal shelter that had saved her from being slaughtered.

[cgs]

Wow, I guess I'm lucky. My parents aren't vegan/vegetarian, but they are open minded. Mom's cooking up some extra Indian food for me The only person who would give me flak about it ("but we have canine teeth!" *sigh*) is my conservative uncle, who will be down huntin' in Georga.

[Jaben]

Part of me wants to argue:
The adults were very well aware of my position and it's a brother's job to pick on his little sisters, isn't it? Imagine all the turkeys sitting on tables around the country this Thursday, naked and cooked with wings and legs exposed. Does it really harm a 4 year old to state the obvious, that's a dead bird...? If you are afraid knowing the true nature of your food's origin will harm your child, maybe you shouldn't be feeding that to your child?

But the truth is people don't want to have disturbing thoughts associated with their food, especially on Thanksgiving. I guess I have been so passionate about veganism that I forgot the compassion for people and even my family. Sometimes I wonder what Hawkin's level this passion is vibrating at

Allow your family to enjoy their food this holiday. It will do no good to have your arguments looming around. Even the thought itself that the best diet for their health is to eliminate all animal products is very disturbing. It is disturbing to consider this because animal products are such an integrated and intimate part of their lives. To suggest that it shouldn't be is threatening. So, do your family a favor and let them enjoy their food. Offering your delicious vegan food with no expectation seems to me to be the best thing you can do.

There are some people with which in the right venue you can have a healthy debate with and share information such as The China study. But, if you choose to do that, be very careful. Involving their children is definitely not your decision.

If you want to have influence on the children of your extended family, maybe try something such as if they are trying to decide whether to watch the movie Cars or Open Season. Suggest Open Season. Many children's movies relay the message: Finding Nemo, Chicken Run, Madagascar, etc...

[KeithHandy]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I even made them watch "Meet Your Meat" one year. It didn't phase anyone like I had hoped. Mostly I got, "I bet PETA staged that."

PETA could stand to take note of the part of The Secret where they talk about how to bring about positive change in the world. Maybe they're already moving in that direction. Just as there is a difference between "anti-war" and "pro-peace", there is a difference between "anti-cruelty" and "pro-compassion".

I fully favor what they're aiming to do, but feel that their "shock people into action" style does just as much to polarize the less-compassionate and make them more defensive of the status quo -- and more likely to perceive activists as wackos -- as it does to actually further the cause.

A few short years ago, my own initial reaction to their literature (and I've always loved animals) was "oh god, I'm not looking at their literature ever again". As sickened as I was, I felt it was inappropriate and unnecessary to mail me such upsetting images without warning, or without at least giving me an option to skip the gore and go straight to something helpful and proactive.

Maybe that sounds callous, like I'm placing too much importance on my own short-term comfort? Thoughts?

[gberardi]

Originally Posted by KeithHandy

Maybe that sounds callous, like I'm placing too much importance on my own short-term comfort? Thoughts?

No, it sounds about right. Years ago, I remember seeing the van with the giant television broadcasting something, which might have been Meet Your Meat for all I know. The people involved handed out pamphlets and had this loud TV right by an entrance to a building.

I remember talking with some friends about how stupid it was. No one got the "real" message. Everyone just laughed at the vegans. "I'm going to go buy myself a hamburger, then walk up and start watching the TV and see what they say."

It disgusted some people, which made them NOT want to pay attention. The people that weren't disgusted were either amused or didn't care.

[gberardi]

Ok, so I am back from Thanksgiving, and I learned some things.

One, preparing dinner for 16 guests requires a lot of coordination and planning. Being in the kitchen at the same time as the person preparing dinner for everyone is apparently not fun.

Two, a lot of things at Thanksgiving are not vegan.

Three, I should have been better prepared.

When I got there, I thought I would pick a few recipes, buy some ingredients, and get to work. I ended up preparing only one dish, Autumn Stew, because everything else required the ovens, which were already being occupied by turkey and other things. My girlfriend had not informed her family that I was eating a vegan diet these days, so they had no idea I was going to be doing anything in the kitchen that day.

The stew was great, although the beans were not completely finished. A little crunchy, but otherwise delicious. I had one other person say that I made a great stew, so that felt good. B-)

I had some bread (no butter or honey) and some sweet potatoes (although I am still not sure if it was completely vegan). I really wish I could have made potato stuffing, though. I thought that I could have had some mashed potatoes, green beans, or salad, but it turned out that they were made with butter, milk, or cheese.

As for conversation, I got a few questions about my reasons, and a few of the guests came from farming families. One of them believed that the chemicals being put into the ground can very well lead to disease, and we had an interesting conversation about what farming is like.

Things went a lot better than I expected, which I think is how most things go. I could easily create scary images, but it is usually more fantastical than real life. Next time, I plan on preparing my meals beforehand. Microwaves are quick and should not get in the way. B-)

Oh, and I tried a Tofurkey a few days before, just to see how it would be. I also didn't realize that it needed to be defrosted 24 hours in advance. I think it felt a bit rubbery, but it tasted great. The stuffing and gravy was delicious, too. Maybe I might bring one next year.

Thanks for everyone's advice and help!