Should I jump at him or forget about him?
ok... I'm lost, I need some direct advice.
There's a man. I met him almost four years ago. I was in love with him like crazy. Sexual attraction from his side was clear. More, I don't know. I felt there was definitely more, but maybe it was just a wish. We spent many hours together. We did nice things, like going for walks in the forest and climbing on a building at 6 in the morning to watch the sunrise together. It was kind of romantic. But nothing ever happened. I was far too shy to do something, and I had thoughts like "not yet, I'm not ready, it's a too big thing.." And he, I don't know, he had genuine interest in me as a person, but I didn't know if there was more than friendship. He never tried anything. Plus, sometimes we arranged to meet and he just did not show up. He always had concrete reasons for not showing up, but he did not let me know in time. I was very angry about it. It happened three times, and the third time I told him "you're not worth it to me!". I am very sorry for this, it was too hard and additionally it was a lie.
But I could not apologize, for he had to travel abroad and we lost contact. I didn't see him for three years. I had a very hard time getting over this. My head told me, forget about this guy, he's not reliable, it would not work anyway. But it broke my heart and I could never totally forget about him.
A few weeks ago, after reading Ask and it is Given, I thought "great! now I can see him again! I'll see him again soon." Two weeks ago I met him accidentally on the street. !!!! For me, it was like those three years had not existed at all. In one second everything was back. It was exactly the same again, same feelings, same everthing. It blew up my mind!
We were very happy to see each other again. He told me he had been trying to contact me a hundred times in those three years. He asked immediately for my email and phone number, and wanted to see me the very next day. We arranged that he would call me at 9am the next morning. Guess what? he did not call. He wrote my in the evening, apologized and told me he had to drive to another city because of work. The next day we arranged to meet after work. He did not show up. He wrote three days later to apologize and told me his grandmother had an accident and he had to go to the hospital.
He wrote a lot of nice things too. In his first email, he told me that now that we have found each other again, he will not give up that easily any more. He wrote that every time he heard <name of a love song> all this time, he always thought of me. He wrote two times more. He calls me "my sweet" or similar names. In every email he tells me that he thinks of me. He even said that if I am travelling away, he'll come with me. (but all this could be only-friendly as well)
Now the situation is: I am not angry this time, I wrote him a nice email on wednesday and I'm waiting for him to write back to arrange the next meeting-attempt. And he doesn't write back! He has no computer at home, but it's not that difficult to find one and answer an email... As I said in the thread about how to be patient?, I'm generally too impatient. But this thing now especially drives me nuts. I just want to see him! And talk to him! (and apologize for my lie) (and maybe clarify what we want from each other now) Why doesn't he write back?! I can't help thinking something like "if I were really important to him, he would write back, he would want to see me asap!". (yes I know, bad thought...)
I know you're going to tell me "concentrate on your life, do what you have to do, he'll write back, it's only a few days, and if he doesn't, he's not worth it.." But I think I am doing something massively wrong on this one. (From a LoA PoV of course, I focus on him not writing back, so I get more of him not writing back..) What should I do? I don't know how to behave. Should I write him I want to see him? Should I wait no matter what? when I eventually see him should I say/do something? The question is, am I running too much after him, or not enough?? :confused:
What makes it difficult too is that I don't know which signals I send to him. When I see him I am totally overwhelmed. I almost don't understand what he says. To salute me, he puts his right arm around my shoulders and gives me a kiss on my left cheek, and I am not even able to give him a kiss back. I just stand there paralyzed, not able to react. We met accidentally three times now and talked for five minutes. We talk a lot, we both smile at each other from one ear to the other all the time, I'm very nice to him, but the situation is so overwhelming that I don't know if objectively I am just friendly or if I am looking at him like a groupie, or what. I have the impression that it's written with big marker across my face of course, but maybe my feelings are not that obvious? Or they are, and that's what holds him back? :confused:
I don't know, I need your input, pleeeeease... :eek:
Hey, Rose of Cairo, you are very powerful! That is wonderful and inspiring, and I hope you make the most of it.
As far as romance goes, what do you want, really? Do you want to have a fun adventure with this guy, or do you hope that he will be a long-term relationship? If you want to use the Law of Attraction to generate what you want, be clear with yourself about what you want -- otherwise your fuzzy conflicting emotions will keep you in limbo, and you won't be captaining your own ship.
Either way, the big question is: what kind of a romance are you willing to have with a man who has no integrity? This man has no integrity -- he does not do what he says he's going to do when he says he's going to do it. Unfortunately he did not grow integrity during your three year separation, and you will not change that about him. So, what kind of relationship are you willing to create with a man whom you will never be able to trust or rely on to keep his word?
Since you are such a powerful and intentional person, maybe you would like to experiment with him -- this is a really good exercise for yourself and your relationships in general, not just him -- be totally straight with him. Tell him straight out: "You have no integrity; you don't do what you say you're going to do when you say you're going to do it. You have trained me to not believe you or rely on you. That doesn't work for me for a long-term romantic partnership. Even so, I love you exactly as you are, and don't wish to change you. I would like to have (x romance sex -- whatever you decide you want) with you. I'll still be on the lookout for the right guy for me long term, so I won't commit to you, but it might be fun to have (x romance sex) for as long as it lasts. How does that sound to you? What do you want?" And listen to what he has to say.
You never know; you might have more power to generate exactly what you want than you're even aware of.
Angela is giving good advice here. Decide what you want from this relationship and then go from there.
There are, however, some points I find disturbing:
* that you were initially so taken by him without really knowing him very well
* that it took you so long to get over him (perhaps a lack of self-worth)
* that a lack of integrity on his part isn't sending out red flags to you
As Angela pointed out you can't change him, nor should you try, however, it would be desirable to have someone you can rely upon. Sexual attraction is not that hard to come by, but a good solid relationship is a little more challenging to build.
Angela, ZHereford, THANKS for your answers :)
LOL Angela, it would be very funny to tell him such a thing. :D But that's a good idea, really. You know what, I'll tell him. If he ever shows up once... :o
You're both right, I should first know what I want. I don't know! First of all I just want to see him. I want to talk with him. I changed very much in those three years, and he changed too, I saw that. I want to talk and see what everything looks like between us today. I don't want to make any decision based on a three-year-old situation!
What I want on the long term, I don't know. A fun adventure, sex: NO. Far too much feelings! A relationship? I don't know. I don't know if I generally want a relationship, actually I think I don't want any. I have one now, dying, and it doesn't feel right for me. I told my bf I will move out. I feel caged... most of all I want to feel free and do what I want. I am not the monogamous type either. On the other side, the day I fell in love with him, at that time, I dumped everyone and did not even look at any other man for the whole time we saw each other (over half a year). For someone as interested in sex as I am, that's very unusual. And now it's the same again, I went totally impotent from the minute I saw him again. So, I don't know. Maybe he's just the one for me. I'd walk to China for him, but can't we have a big love story without having a relationship? :p
To your points, ZHereford:
Well I know him quite well actually. Over half a year we saw each other very often and spent many hours together. We talked a lot. I saw him interact with many people at work too.
You're right, three years ago I had a BIG lack of self-worth. I worked hard on this one and I'm better now. Still not perfect I guess. And yes, unreliable or not fully committed men are a pattern in my life :rolleyes: Maybe because my father left me at the age of 2? First he was very unreliable visiting me, I always used to wait for him and he didn't show up. After a few months of this, he never showed up again and gave no warning and no explanation. (I talked with him about that 20 years later, he said he could not deal with the responsibility of having that child) Till today, waiting for someone who doesn't come/call is the worst thing that can happen to me. I know this is important, I'm working on that too. I'm sure there are some thoughts somewhere attracting such men again and again. It's hard work to change this, as it has been going on all of my life ;)
Another reason why it was so difficult to get over him is what I told above. He's really a very special man for me. Sometimes I think that's THE man of my life.
His lack of integrity is one reason why I tried to forget him. Why it's not an absolute red flag... Well I'm used to such things from men as I told above... And it's because it doesn't look like him at all too. Maybe I'm totally idealizing him?? I noticed him because of his integrity. He would never lie or cheat or do something twisted. He's a very straight forward person, he has principles and sticks to them. I admire him a lot for that. He's actually very reliable. Very often he does something because he has promised it. So that's very, very surprising that he's not like that with me. That's why I did not think "he is like this, he has no integrity"
I thought this not-showing-up has something to do with me, either personally or as a girl he likes. I thought, that's me causing this behaviour. I don't know how, maybe I'm too attached to him. Freedom is very important to him too, maybe he wants to see me but doesn't want to be accountable to a girl and have duties and so on? I would understand that very well. That's why I wrote I am doing something wrong. I think if I changed something in my behaviour or in my thoughts, he'd not do that. Am I wrong?
Agreed with Angela on this one. Rose, you're beautiful and smart and fun. This sounds like an opportunity for adventure. Tell him what you want. Tell him what you think of him, good and bad. Then you sit back and ask him flat-out, what's he gonna do about it?
You mean, long-term, mutually beneficial relationship though, right? Have you considered that perhaps you have attracted exactly the right person into your life so that you could work through the very thing that is stopping you from creating a LTMBR? What I see: Here's a person who is wonderful, fun, and exciting; who professes to want some kind of intimate relationship with sex appeal, romance, but not sure what kind; who is not completely honest or present with Beloved; to whom freedom is paramount; who may have a tendency to bolt as a coping mechanism; is withholding; and is very willing to overlook some huge obstacles to a LTMBR. In short, this person is not Available.
Does that sound familiar, Rose? Do you know who I'm talking about?
Some of what you're saying about what you want and what he's like doesn't add up. Perhaps he's confused too! You may be sending out mixed or conflicting signals and that could stem from the fact that you yourself don't know what you want from this situation.
I'm sure I attracted exactly the right person to learn my next lesson, yes. My life is a learning process and I always attract the person(s) I need to learn what I have to learn next. I already noticed that.
but I don't get what this next lesson is! What is the very thing that is stopping me from creating a LTMBR? How should I work through it? What should I do? :confused:
I'm currently learning 1) detachment 2) to listen to my intuition. Is it related? I'm stuck...
NotesMaeve: you decided to overwhelm me with compliments those days... ;) Thanks. You know, I'm only reflecting you! I'll do what you told me. If he only would let me talk to him at last!
I'll think about all this those days and let you know what's happening next. Thank you so much for your help... :) :) :) I'm very happy and grateful you're here.
Edit: just read what you wrote ZHereford. I meant, FIRST I noticed him because of his integrity. Then he started (after one month or two) to become unreliable (but only with me, as far as I could see). But I did not think he has no integrity, I thought it's me causing him to act like this. And finally, as he disappeared, my head told me he's not reliable, forget about him. I used the word "lack of integrity" here because you used it, not because I would call it like this. Sorry.
But you're right, I'm probably sending out mixed signals... Like I'm in love, but I don't want a relationship, but I want to see you... lol :)
It's Not You!
If you are thinking you need to change *anything* about yourself, this is not the man for you. You are perfect and beautiful just as you are - mixed signals and all. Would it help to get clear about what you want? Yup. But in the meantime, can you love your confusion? There is *nothing* wrong with you.
There is Nothing Wrong With You by Cheri Huber
The Work by Byron Katie
may be helpful to you.
Wait a moment you guys! (edit: to cdn2wheeler and Jim)
who said no feelings???
With "no sex" I meant "not only sex".
It's true that I don't know exactly what I want. Generally, and in this case especially, because what happened between us happened three years ago. I'm not the person I used to be at that time any more, and I guess he isn't either. That's why I want to see him first of all.
Maybe my signals are mixed, BUT one message is very clear: "I want to see you." And I am consistent with that wish. When we arrange to meet, I am at the right place at the right time. When he writes, I answer within 12 hours. I really want to see him, that's clear. Unclear is the long run... is it really that important?
And he sends mixed signals too!!! First he wants to see me immediately, then he doesn't show up. Then he writes as if he's in love with me, then he doesn't write anything for one week. It's cold-hot-cold-hot all the time!
Why should he get involved? Well if he has feelings for me, he should want to see me asap, or am I wrong on this one??
Perhaps I'm wrong - gawd knows I've been wrong before - but from where I sit it sure looks like that to me.
Yes I wrote "no sex" but I didn't mean "no sex at all". Angela was asking "what do you want? a fun adventure? sex? or a relationship?" and I answered "sex: no, too much feelings", what meant "only sex no, I have too much feelings to have only sex with him and nothing more". Sorry for this misunderstanding, I thought it was clear. Feelings don't prevent me from having sex you know ;) but they prevent me from having nothing more than sex.
I think you are right, he mirrors my own confusion. But this confusion is about a relationship or not. Wether we should meet asap or not is clear to me, so why doesn't he mirror this instead? :D
You're right, absolutely. I even wanted to cry reading this.
As I was a child, when we talked about that my mother used to tell me "Everything was wonderful, then you were born and from this moment he was half away all the time" And now I attract men who are "half away all the time" in one manner or in another... And I think "If only *I* would behave differently, he would be really here".
So the truth is, he IS NOT reliable and I have to decide wether I want such a man or not?
Thank you very much for the links, Caren. First one seems to be censored, I could not open it. But I looked quickly at Byron Katie. It looks like fun, applied SR :) I'll do it tonight! Thank you!
Rose, it's not just that you're unclear about what you want that's getting in your way, it's that you're unclear about how unavailable you are.
And so you've picked this perfect guy who is the same flavor of unavailable as you: he looks, feels, and sounds available, but isn't present for you or straight with you. Just like you are not present for or straight with him. Voila -- chemistry!
Also, you say that freedom is your most important value, or it's right up there towards the top, right? And yet, you are "shoulding" this guy left and right. Few things have the power to rob people of feeling free than being should-ed. You don't even have to verbalize the shoulds to him -- people feel shoulds from others, plain as day.
It's always easier for outsiders to see when a person is mirroring than it is for the mirroring person to see it herself, so please don't think we're giving you a hard time here -- we are simply trying to point you towards the mirror -- to see that the trouble you are having with this relationship is 100% contained within yourself first. If you are bold and courageous, and you take 100% responsibility for your life, for your satisfaction and fulfillment, you have the opportunity here to have a huge breakthrough in your power to create a loving, mutually beneficial relationship.
(Plus, the likelihood is that all of us who are drawn to point out how you're mirroring are also mirroring something in our own lives! Ai chihuahua, life is a circle.)
Lots of love,
Angela, I know that the trouble I am having with this relationship is 100% contained within myself first... The trouble I am having with everything in my life is 100% contained within myself. My goal is to take 100% responsibility for my life. Don't worry, I knew that posting about this here would bring me a few big slaps in the face ;) That's exactly what I want. I need to take a hard look at myself in order to grow. Sometimes you can grow alone, and sometimes you're stuck and need some kick in the a**.
You're right, I am shoulding him all the time. you should want to see me asap! you should write every day, you should show up at our appointments, and so on. Of course I don't tell him such things, but for sure he feels it. OMG!!! I hate it when someone does this to me, and now I'm doing it to someone else... :mad: I want to change this immediately!
I never thought about this not-available thing! I feel very committed and available because I want to see him so badly and I answer his emails and so on. But you're right, in fact there is some part of me escaping permanently. I don't want anyone to catch me.
So, I don't only attract men who are "half away all the time", I am half away all the time myself? I feel that's true. But why? This is something I have to think about a lot now.
I kept telling myself (in the relationship equation) well, we're both adults. We both have busy, full lives, we live far from each other. I don't *need* his validation to feel complete. But kept hating his inconsistency at the same time! I had decided to be "through" with him - physically (no phone calls, no sex... no phone sex ;) ) even though I was till attached emotionally, when a friend gave me a copy of "He's Just Not That Into You". That's one of the reasons I recommend that book so much - it saved me from myself, and from months of *wondering*.
Cheri Huber link
There's Nothing Wrong With You
edit: Tried to link to tinyurl, and it got censored! That *was* the problem. Wonder why?
This may be from left field, but have you talked to him about his habit of not showing up, and not calling/letting you know in advance?
It seems like the motivation you've attached to those actions is a likely one, but it's not the only one. And it's possible that he's not aware of how much he's hurting you.
I find it's always worth putting a voice to your emotional needs in a clear and non-accusatory way. I.E. "When you don't show up when you say you will I feel ________. Can we talk about some alternative ways to let each other know when plans are changing?" (Think Non-Violent Communication techniques)
If he responds well, you may be able to work out a solution that works for both of you, if not, you have more information about his motivation and his conflict resolution skills. Seems like a win/win to me.
Half Available is Not Available
Rose, one thing you kind of sneaky-slipped into your post was that you actually live with a man now, and are apparently in the process of removing yourself from that situation. This is another way you have cleverly sentenced yourself to being only half-available. You really are very powerful!
That's an illusion though, of course. Someone who is half-available is really not available at all; she is only trying to have it both ways between her conscious and unconscious desires. A man who is truly available, one who is interested in a woman and looking for a real relationship, will probably not see a woman who is in the process of extricating herself from another man as being a real possibility. In fact, to Mr. NoIntegrity, you are the perfect fish for him -- with all of the myriad ways you demonstrate that you are not available to him for a LTMBR, he feels perfectly safe from being "caught" himself. And vice-versa.
What might be very valuable for you would be to learn how to let go of being half-available and generate something that works better for you -- perhaps being free? When you are being free, you are free to be fully yourself, fully present, and fully honest in a romantic relationship, regardless of how the other person is behaving. Of course I recommend the Landmark Forum for unlocking the cage you locked yourself into when your dad left and your mom blamed you. But there are other approaches, too.
You can start by asking yourself this question: "Is it true? Would I tell my own 2 year old daughter that it's true?" Someone here recommended Byron Katie's work, and I second that. It will start you asking questions of yourself that will unconceal the things you've been hiding from yourself, but that are nevertheless running your life.
You are a loving and generous listener, Rose. You are on a good road!
Liz: after the first miss, I wrote him "please if you cannot come to our appointment, let me know as soon as possible. When I wait for you and you don't show up/ call, it drives me mad. I cannot concentrate on anything else in this time and I don't like the feeling that someone else has power over my time. That you cannot come is not a problem, please just let me know in time." (don't know if this was the right thing to say...) Then I wrote about other things. He answered but nothing about this first thing. After the second miss, he apologized a lot and told me that in the moment he was told his grandmother had an accident, he just forgot about everything and jumped into his car. (I would have done the same...)
Angela: about my father: of course it's not true! I know it's not true, I even already worked on that with a counselor and with EFT. But something still remains obviously. I'll keep on working on that.
I'm still digesting all of the input from all of you... Haven't started with Byron Katie or the Landmark Forum now, I'm still too much clogged with the input I got. I feel it works hard in the background of my brain, processing all this information :)
Now I see, I am not available at all. I don't want a relationship at all. I don't know if I am ready to learn how to be available now. When I think of it, I get a big I DON'T WANT!!!
It's a big relief for me to know that now. I feel wonderful. I could even let go all those "shoulds" about him. I am so relieved...
And as soon as I let him go, I meet him... guess whom I met accidentally again today? :) He told me since his grandma is in the hospital, there is a big family drama, and he has problems dealing with this. He told me he hadn't even time to check my email. And he told me where he works tomorrow and that I am invited to visit him there. I felt he was feeling guilty towards me. I'll try not to should him anymore. I want him to feel free and happy when he sees me.
Rose? give up on that bumb...... I am here for you hahahahahah.
oh really? great! if you're married, have children, live at the other end of the world and have no skype, I might consider falling in love with you :D
work still in progress here...
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