Can this marriage be saved? Should this marriage be saved?

[ahimel]

Please pardon my over-emotional post. If it bothers you, please feel free to ignore this thread and move one. I'm hoping for help, not to bother anyone.

I met my future husband 7 years ago, my first year in college. We hit it off almost immediatly, but still only saw each other in class. A couple of weeks into school, he went through an emotionally hard time, and I realised that I neded to find him the next day - when we didn't have class - because it hurt too much to know he needed support and not be there to help him. We started dating a few weeks after that. We got engaged my sophomore year, intending to get married the next summer, after I graduated (I was due to graduate in 3 years). My graduation got delayed, and we decided not to postpone the wedding.

Our sexual relationship has never been good. He pushed me into it before I was ready, and I've never had the space I needed to find my own comfort level in sex. That's only gotten worse over our 4.5 years of marriage, as he asks me, essentially, "It's been 5 years, why aren't you over it yet?"

I also feel like I'm growing and leaving him behind. When I met him he had a light in his eyes and wanted to change the world. Lately, he's come to the conclusion that the world is too much for him, and his only purpose is to buy video games. I'm afraid I may have had something to do with that; initially, I admired his dreams and wanted to help him achieve them. As time went by, my enthusiasm flagged. I think that discouraged him. As he grew discouraged, he lost one of the things I admired most about him: his dreams. As I lost admiration for him, he grew more discouraged.

He remains fully supportive of my growth, but his mindset is still fairly small. I don't like talking to him about my plans to build a business, or invest in real estate, or become a professional singer, because his scarcity/defeatist attitude makes me doubt myself, even when he says, "That sounds good." And if I can't talk to him about building a business, how can I talk to him about something as crazy as the Law of Attraction? So we live in the same house, eat the same food, and watch the same TV, but our lives don't actually intersect much.

Yesterday we had a huge fight. He demanded to know why I wouldn't trust him (esp. regarding sex) I answered that I had repeatedly asked for things from him, and he had agreed, but then not carried through, which led to distrust. He decided that my answer was false, that I was hiding something, and that he would go on a hunger strike until I told him the truth. Since he's hypoglycemic, he knows that I know that if he didn't eat anything before he left for work, he'd be risking his life on the highway, so it was essentially a suicide threat.

I broke down and fled to my parents' house. Last night was miserable. I couldn't sleep 'til midnight, and cried myself to sleep. It hurts so much to know how much I hurt him. I told him I needed a few days to sort things out, but I'm not feeling any closer to a solution. I don't want a divorce, but my feelings are so mixed up right now that I can't tell whether that's because of love for him or fear of the mess that comes from divorce. (My heart breaks at the thought of dividing our posessions.)

I know you guys can't give me answers. What I'm hoping is that you can give me questions. What questions can I ask myself that will make this clearer to me?

[Shaden]

"Would it be a good idea to talk to my husband about my worries about sex? Ask him if we could take it slower, if he could give me some space.? Tell him that I feel pressurised into something that I'm not comfortable with yet? Is that a good idea?"

[Helly]

Can I give you a ((((hug)))? Seems like a lonely place to be right now, doesn't it?

I'm intrigued as to what prompted you to write:

Originally Posted by ahimel

It hurts so much to know how much I hurt him.

How have you hurt him? Wasn't he the one who failed to back up his words with actions? And then pulled the meanest trick in the book by attempting to emotionally blackmail you?

The fact that you state that you don't want to divorce because of the practicalities speaks volumes, imho. You know those are do-able, don't you?

Have you ever considered counselling? Even if he won't go with you, I have found that going alone reaps its own rewards. And don't forget the "I" statements - I feel "x" when you do Y" can open up some interesting dialogue.

Take care, hon. I understand how difficult it is to be in your position.

[Kimberly]

Why am I settling for a relationship in which blackmail is viewed as a proper means of communication?

Why do I feel responsible for my husband's happiness?

Can I really blame someone else for making me doubt myself?

What role have I played in the deterioration of my marriage? What positive contribution can I make to turn the situation around?

Just a few thoughts - hope this helps.

[Wulfen]

Sorry to say this but I see very little room for hope in this relationship.

The most important trait for a man is that he has a higher purpose, a mission. A man in a relationship that is focused only in the relationship (clingy), or, even worse, that has no purpose at all (apathy) is not attractive in the slightest.

Besides, he is throwing emotional tantrums when he sees that he is losing you, which makes him less of a man in your eyes.

Here, in order to revive this relationship he should change. As it is going is doomed to end pretty soon, IMO, though maybe someone else can give you tips in alternative things that you could do.

[elainevdw]

You seem to think that you are part of your husband's flagging drive to succeed. However, by your timeline, it sounds like you two are only a few years out of college. Ask yourself if you really have contributed to your husband's defeatist attitude, or if he simply is having a difficult time adjusting to life outside of college. Do you expect yourself to single-handedly renew his positive outlook on life? Isn't that a little bit too much responsibility? Do you have the patience and love to deal with his depression for however long it takes until he can pull himself out of it? Will you support him in whatever measures it will take him to recover? (It took my boyfriend two hellish years to get over his post-collegiate loathing of life and himself. The most integral part of his recovery was moving back home, a very, very difficult change for me.)

"Sex" encompasses a lot of things. What, specifically, are you uncomfortable with? What, specifically, are you very comfortable with? Is there a way you can help your husband fulfill his sexual needs without making yourself uncomfortable in the process, while you sort things out? Maybe it would help to list all of your varying opinions about sex, and then circle all the negative ones. Are they negative because of personal preference, or because of beliefs you hold about sex, yourself, your body, your husband? If you target some beliefs that are blocking a fulfilling sex life, perhaps you can find some books or a friend/professional to help you redefine those negative beliefs. (My boyfriend was amazing in helping me get over my sexual blocks without overly pressuring me. If your husband doesn't have a knack for compassionately helping you grow in this area -- especially during a difficult part of his life -- you might have to do some of this hard work on your own.)

Regarding him cornering you about trust, it sounds to me like one of those arguments that sounds like a big deal, but in reality, it's a minor issue that he has a big obsession with. Is it possible the only topic meaningful to him that he thinks about all day is his relationship with you, causing him to blow small issues out of proportion? He has no passion for anything else at the moment, and video games are only so much of a distraction. (My boyfriend did this to me a lot during his depression. And yes, he played a LOT of video games at that time, too -- especially MMORPGs.)

As far as sharing your personal development with him and talking about deep stuff, is it possible that he's just not mentally "there" enough to meet you on the level you're currently at, because he's depressed?

I met my boyfriend in college, too. And he was one of the most driven people I knew. When he hit his post-college depression, he completely changed. I hardly knew who he was anymore. I wanted to keep growing; he wanted to stay home and play Final Fantasy XI all day. We had some of the worst fights I ever experienced; I would have stayed at my parents' had I lived within 100 miles of them. I cried myself to sleep a lot. I had a lot of doubts regarding the sustainability of our relationship during this time. After a time, he decided that he needed to move home to heal. We've been back three months, and the man I fell in love with has reemerged. It was really weird getting used to treating him like a compassionate human being again, not a time-bomb ready to blow at any second, but it only took me maybe a month to readjust (would have been faster, but I hated the idea of moving back home and was depressed myself for a while after we moved).

If you are in a similar situation to the one I just went through -- feel free to PM me, if you would like to.

[babuji]

Conflicts generally arise when expectations for each other are not met... so you can ask yourself and perhaps even you husband...

-What expectations do I have of my husband? What expectations does my husband have of me? How can those expectations be met through the means of compromise.. or can they be met at all?

I'm sure your husband has dreams that he wants to accomplish. So ask him:

-Where do you see US in one year, two years, five years.. and how can we work together to get there?

Lastly.. don't blame yourself for his loss of dreams.. and work on building the trust between you two again... start with small milestones.. and work on accomplishing them together.. this will help to regain the trust in each other since you'll both be making an attempt to go in a positive direction..

I hope that helps... God bless you both..

[Keith]

Originally Posted by ahimel

He decided that my answer was false, that I was hiding something, and that he would go on a hunger strike until I told him the truth. Since he's hypoglycemic, he knows that I know that if he didn't eat anything before he left for work, he'd be risking his life on the highway, so it was essentially a suicide threat.

This here? Not cool.

You want questions, I suggest these two:
* Why is he acting in such a hurtful and dangerous way?
* Is he willing to act to change that?

I suspect that, if you answer those questions, you'll be well on the road to knowing whether you should stay or go.

[Josip]

There is no much philosophy, you must talk with him, you must love him, you must encourage him and believe to him.

If your husband started hunger strike and risk to die, it is obviously that you are most important to him, at least more important than it's life.

Go slow, don't give up, talk, talk and understand each other and try to avoid to be to serious too much.

And, yes, you both need to read the "Seven habits...." of Stephen Covey
(last few days I allways finish post with this book )

[Dating Specialist]

Originally Posted by ahimel

Our sexual relationship has never been good. He pushed me into it before I was ready, and I've never had the space I needed to find my own comfort level in sex. That's only gotten worse over our 4.5 years of marriage, as he asks me, essentially, "It's been 5 years, why aren't you over it yet?"

It looks like he's not fulfilling your many other needs like emotional and mental, that's why you can't fulfill his physical needs like sex. So you feel like your body is being used, you don't feel the love and connection you should when making love with your husband, am I right?

Communicate to him what your needs are, which I may doubt if he's willing to satisfy them as he seems to be drowning in sea and he's pulling you down.

Originally Posted by ahimel

As I lost admiration for him, he grew more discouraged.

Yeah, man needs admiration to grow. Especially from his partner.

Originally Posted by ahimel

He decided that my answer was false, that I was hiding something, and that he would go on a hunger strike until I told him the truth. Since he's hypoglycemic, he knows that I know that if he didn't eat anything before he left for work, he'd be risking his life on the highway, so it was essentially a suicide threat.

Going on a hunger strike is a threat you're right. He is hurting himself to hurt you. Someone who doesn't know how to love himself makes me wonder how much love he can have for another person?

If you cave in with this threat, he may use this tactic again in future since he knows it works.

Plus he's refusing to believe in what you said. Now how much trust is there in such a marriage?

Originally Posted by ahimel

I don't want a divorce, but my feelings are so mixed up right now that I can't tell whether that's because of love for him or fear of the mess that comes from divorce. (My heart breaks at the thought of dividing our posessions.)

I second what Helly suggest - to seek counselling. Because if you want to keep this marriage there seems to be lots of work to be done. It'd be great if both of you can go, if not you can go and start working on yourself first.

When a person is very stressed out, he has lost the clarity in his mind and thoughts. So the more you force yourself to make sense of all these and to sort our your feelings, the more confused you may get. Seeking professional help and advice will help speed this process for you.

Lastly, some hugs for you. This must be tearing your heart.

[Trina]

I think the main question that you need to ask yourself is... Am I willing to live the rest of my life this way?

You need to decide if living with his emotional blackmail and temper tantrums is something you are willing, or even able to do. You can't force him to change into what you want him to be, just like you didn't make him into this person that you are having such a hard time with. I hope you realize that. You can't force another person to change, for the good or bad. As much as we would all like to think that we have so much influence over the people we love, when it comes down to it, no matter who you are and who they are (subjective reality aside) you just can't force someone to be something they are not.

Have you talked to him about all of this? Or do you just live with it? I think you owe it to him and yourself to at least have a conversation with him if you haven't already. Let him know that what he is doing is making you very unhappy and is a deal breaker for you. Let him air his concerns in an adult way and listen to them. Suggest marriage and/or individual counseling. If he loves you and wants to make it work, he will make an effort. If he is too wrapped up in his own issues to make your marriage a priority, that will be obvious.

I just hope that whatever you decide to do, it contributes to your happiness. I believe that marriage is something that people really need to work at and shouldn't bail the first sign of problems, but marriage should never be a good enough reason to stay with someone while they tear you down either.

[Radical]

Originally Posted by Wulfen

Sorry to say this but I see very little room for hope in this relationship.

The most important trait for a man is that he has a higher purpose, a mission. A man in a relationship that is focused only in the relationship (clingy), or, even worse, that has no purpose at all (apathy) is not attractive in the slightest.

Besides, he is throwing emotional tantrums when he sees that he is losing you, which makes him less of a man in your eyes.

Here, in order to revive this relationship he should change. As it is going is doomed to end pretty soon, IMO, though maybe someone else can give you tips in alternative things that you could do.

Wulfen, you seem incapable of viewing the world through any other lens than that of a PUA.

If you love him then I would advise working things out.

I can empathise with his apathy, since the world can seem a very daunting place after education.

[Lotus]

Do I want to be in a relationship in which one partner uses unfair tactics such as emotional blackmail to try to control my actions?

Why did I stay involved with a man who did not respect my sexual boundries?

I am only responsible for ME and MY actions. What message is my husband recieving when I allow him to disrespect my boundries and use emotional blackmail on me? Is this the message I want to send?

How is the situation in terms of communication? (You mentioned that you don't feel you can talk about PD with him.) What is causing the disconnect in communication?

Where do I want to be in one year? five years? ten years?
(Do I want kids? What sort of father would my partner make?)

Am I a "rescuer"? -- A person who tries to save others from themselves.
("A couple of weeks into school, he went through an emotionally hard time, and I realised that I neded to find him the next day - when we didn't have class - because it hurt too much to know he needed support and not be there to help him.")

Is my sex life satisfying... or is my sex life about satisfying my partner?

What can I do to take control over my anxieties concerning sex?
(On a side note, do you mastrubate? Have you taken the time to learn what feels good for your body? Please don't feel any obligation to post anything about this if you aren't comfortable. I've found that a lot of people who are unsure of themselves sexually, especially women, have never mastrubated in an attempt to learn more about their own bodies. Many of them have been taught that mastrubation is "bad" in some way.)

My partner is having trouble communicating with me (otherwise he wouldn't have threatened the hunger strike). Am I doing something to block incoming messages so that he has to resort to unfair tactics to "get the message" across?

[Scientist]

That is a tough situation and I hope things will get better for you.

I write the comments below knowing that I couldn't know enough about your situation to provide good advice, but I thought it might be helpful in some way. Please trust your intuition, perhaps you already know how to deal with the situation.

I think you did the right thing by fleeing. From what you wrote, I don't see that you did anything wrong. Your husband did not appear to deal with the situation in a rational or respectful manner.

If you do want to continue your marriage, I think marriage counseling could be helpful. It could also help you discover if your husband is willing to grow and be better about meeting your needs.

If you don't want to continue your marriage, try to think about what the benefits will be from ending your marriage rather than embracing your fears.

[ahimel]

Thank you to everyone who posted. All your questions gave me a great place to start journaling, which let me find what I needed to know.

Thank you also for the emotional support. You guys are awesome.

For those who care, here's the current sitch:

We met at Old Chicago to discuss what we wanted to do. Per Trina's suggestion, I told him that I couldn't live this way any more, but that I was open to how we stopped it. If we could work it out to live together in a different way, that would be my preference. If the only way to not live like this is to live apart, then that's what would have to happen.

He agreed to talk about it, and determine whether we had irreconcilable differences or not. He also (on his own!) suggested we go back to a more dating-like approach to sex, where we assume that we both want physical intimacy, but decide whether or not to go "all the way" as the situation arises.

We now have a written communication agreement, allowing us to request discussions of hard topics, request space for thinking, and request active listening. We also have a written agreement about what constitutes acceptable behavior inside and outside of the bedroom. (Emotional blackmail and exceeding sexual boundries is out. So is refusing to talk about an issue and setting random sexual boundries with no explanation.)

Finally, we sat down yesterday to work on goals. We now have communal 1-year, 5-year and 10-year goals, as well as individual goals. I also helped him create a plan for his 1-year goal. You could see him start to light up as the promotion to his dream job became an achievable (if reaching) goal, instead of an impossible fantasy.

Again, thanks to everyone. You guys are fantastic.

Amanda

[andrius]

Personally myself do not believe in "saving" marriages. If one party doesn't want to stay together, no trick would save the marriage.

[elainevdw]

Originally Posted by ahimel

He also (on his own!) suggested we go back to a more dating-like approach to sex, where we assume that we both want physical intimacy, but decide whether or not to go "all the way" as the situation arises.

People joke about how marriage takes the passion out of relationship -- maybe this is why. What your hubby considers to be the "dating" approach sounds like way more fun, to me!

Originally Posted by ahimel

Finally, we sat down yesterday to work on goals. We now have communal 1-year, 5-year and 10-year goals, as well as individual goals. I also helped him create a plan for his 1-year goal. You could see him start to light up as the promotion to his dream job became an achievable (if reaching) goal, instead of an impossible fantasy.

That is so unbelievably awesome. You guys went from a couple to a couple on a mission in one sitting! Isn't it interesting how you can phsyically see the change come over someone when they go from desperation to hope?

[Strangemagik]

I dunno but separation can be a good thing. Its hurtful to him sure but it can turn around and my marriage is proof of that. After 4 months and me leaving in a horrible way(late one night while he was working) but we have started talking and I have moved back in and we are working on things.

Take some time gather your thoughts. If he loves you and you mean that much to him he will eventually be okay with you being separated for awhile.

Well I see now that I read all the replies that you have worked some things out. Yep saving marriages is possible.

[KittyG]

(((((Ahimel)))))

Often, when we are raised in dysfunctional homes, we are made to believe we actually have control over what another person is feeling. This just isn't so. How somebody responds is about them; their past, their history, their triggers.
I would defiantly recommend a therapist who can help with boundaries and co dependence. I'd also suggest Pia Mellody's "Facing Co Dependence." (book)

Good luck, hun. You deserve good things in life. You should tell yourself that in the mirror.
More on mirror work : Mirror Work

More on boundaries:
Books by "John Bradshaw" and "Pia Mellody."



Sincerely,

Kat

[KittyG]

Lotus,

Good advice


Kat