Coming out of the closet

[The David]

I've been planning this for a while, and knowing that I still have not done it is an enormous burden. I just went back to school and have plummeted into a paralyzing depression, and the funny thing is how I'm blaming everything else, even though I've been thinking about this every day of the semester and can think of nothing else.

Advice would be appreciated. My parents are strict fundamentalists, and although I'm not dependent on them anymore (I'm more dependant on grandparents), it will still get pretty ugly. My sister has mellowed out a little more, even though we've had similar conflicts in the past, but I don't know how she'll deal with it, either. Due to my upbringing I have almost had nervous breakdowns just coming out to myself. So basically, this isn't easy.

[NotesMaeve]

Oh, baby.

The sibling bond is stronger than any ideology or dogma. Just know that there are men and women out there who come out and go on to have great, successful, happy lives. My brother and I took my other brother's coming out just fine, and my brother R was a bit of a homophobe. People change their unfounded views.

Being gay or bi or straight is just a facet and is so unimportant. It's nothing you chose. It's nothing you can change. Are you in an area with good support groups? You have people here at least who love you and care about you and just want you to be safe. PM me if you need anything.

[The David]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

Are you in an area with good support groups? You have people here at least who love you and care about you and just want you to be safe.

Well, I'm still in East Tennessee, but since I came to UTC it seems every friend I've made is gay, and the ones who are not, I've met through my gay friends. I just joined a GLBT organization on campus, which made me feel the urgency even more.

Edit: My sister is not an idiot and it is painfully obvious that I am gay (I'm not 'campy', but have shown no interest in females at all). We have actually had convesations about it while I was still in the whole ex-gay paradigm, but I denied it because I wasn't even out to myself. I can't say I'm terribly afraid of her response, just mabe a little annoyed about the inevitable 'I knew before you did!' :P

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by The David

Well, I'm still in East Tennessee, but since I came to UTC it seems every friend I've made is gay, and the ones who are not, I've met through my gay friends. I just joined a GLBT organization on campus, which made me feel the urgency even more.

Edit: My sister is not an idiot and it is painfully obvious that I am gay (I'm not 'campy', but have shown no interest in females at all). We have actually had convesations about it while I was still in the whole ex-gay paradigm, but I denied it because I wasn't even out to myself. I can't say I'm terribly afraid of her response, just mabe a little annoyed about the inevitable 'I knew before you did!' :P

David, I'm from East Tennessee originally! Tiny little world, isn't it? :-) UTC is a good school. (I ended up going to TTU.) Remember, you're not alone in this.

[The David]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

David, I'm from East Tennessee originally! Tiny little world, isn't it? :-) UTC is a good school. (I ended up going to TTU.) Remember, you're not alone in this.

Tennessee Temple University? My parents went there! That's how they met.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by The David

Tennessee Temple University? My parents went there! That's how they met.

Close! Tennessee Tech, AKA the Teacher Factory.

[The David]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

Close! Tennessee Tech, AKA the Teacher Factory.

I know even more people there.

I'm constantly being surprised at how many ETers I randomly find online.

[Shamou]

The David! You are who you are… there are things that you can change about yourself… and others that you cannot change…

You cannot change the color of your eyes… your stature… the size of your hands and feet… or your sexual orientation… and, the sooner that you can accept that… the sooner you will be on your way to happiness…

You are unique… like everyone else… so, be happy to be who you are… your sexual orientation does not define who you are… your character does…

The very best of luck to you...
.

[Vanessa]

David, I wish I could transfer to you my memories and thoughts through my process of coming out. That you have come to terms with yourself is going to be your rock and the supportive people you've met will help you adjust to who you've known yourself to be but were not. Dealing with your sister reaction doesn't sound like what you need to worry about.

Questioning your family's unconditional love about who you are is worrying about something you have no control over. It took my family years, and years to accept and love me as I am. the big thing I learned from that experience is that I can't control how they love me or what they show me as their love. I can only control my love for them as they work through their issues about how I am. I can only let them cause feelings and reactions to my being gay if I let them.

You too have that power to only feel what you allow yourself to fear about their reaction. You might be surprised at how strong you will be through coming out to your family. They love you. If you think they don't love you as you are, you can still love them and know that you love yourself enough to happy and grateful for being true to yourself and sexuality.

Take all the time you need to work though who you are. Find confidence in those who have been there too. You're not alone, I promise.

[The David]

Well, I just edited my facebook/myspace profiles to reflect the truth. That's a start.

[Love]

Oh, David, I wish you so much support. My brother told us a month or two ago, and of course I love him just the same as before, why wouldn't I? Even if your folks don't immediately turn around, there will be someone in your life who will understand. I admire you for speaking up. I wish you the best!

[The David]

Thanks for all of your replies.

The profiles were aggravating me for a while, even though I've only been on this path for about seven months. I don't know who will notice them, though. For those of you who have come out to your family, or know people who have, what medium did they use and how did it go? My preferred medium of communication is e-mail because fewer emotions are involved.

[NotesMaeve]

I'm so proud of you, David.

I think it's something that it really depends on the relationship with the person. Go with your heart on this. Those who love you will love you for the real David, no matter what.

Vanessa, that was a great fecking reply.

[Matthew Shea]

The David, my best friend since kindergarten is gay. We're 33/34 now and I still consider him my best friend. I was also one of the last people he came out to. I've been Catholic all my life and he was sincerely worried about my reaction. I'm happy to report that his fears were completely unfounded. At one point, though, he would have been absolutely right to be concerned. Where I was concerned, though, I'd been picking up little hints here and there for years prior, so by the time he finally sat down and came out, my reaction was "I'm glad you're finally comfortable enough to tell me."

So, as Maeve pointed out, people can change. When you put people in a position to choose between their usually irrational pre-conceived beliefs and the real world where people they care about sometimes challenge or even shatter those beliefs, they'll usually choose correctly. Some people won't but that's why my friend, to the best of my knowledge, came out first to those he was the most sure would react well and saved the challenging ones for later. He still hasn't come out to my parents, BTW, despite my assurances they'll still welcome him and consider him like another son (as they always have). He's told me that people have been overwhelmingly supportive and that the network of supportive people he's built have far outweighed the disappointments of those who reacted negatively.

So best of luck to you. It sounds like you've made some good first steps. Take your time and move forward smartly with the knowledge that once you get this off your chest, especially with the people you're most worried about, the stress will start to melt away and you can truly move on with your life.

Finally, don't hesitate to PM me, too. I'll answer whatever I can and I'm typically pretty good at dealing with religious questions.

[Tasaio]

David, I haven't been in your situation, but I do have one comment.

Normally, when I'm reluctant to reveal something to my family, it's because there are still traces of guilt...subconscious or not...

My advice is that you research some great men (and women) you admire who were gay.

Here are some examples from the top of my head:

- George Takei (Sulu, from Star Trek)
- Timothy Findley
- Alan Turing, the father of modern computing
- Leonardo da Vinci
- Ian McKellan
- Graham Chapman
- Rosie O'Donnell

[The David]

Originally Posted by Tasaio

David, I haven't been in your situation, but I do have one comment.

Normally, when I'm reluctant to reveal something to my family, it's because there are still traces of guilt...subconscious or not...

My advice is that you research some great men (and women) you admire who were gay.

Here are some examples from the top of my head:

- George Takei (Sulu, from Star Trek)
- Timothy Findley
- Alan Turing, the father of modern computing
- Leonardo da Vinci
- Ian McKellan
- Graham Chapman
- Rosie O'Donnell

That does help, because yes, I am a little ashamed. I'm ashamed about a lot of things in my life that not only are not wrong, but are only right.

I'm not so sure if I want Rosie O'Donnell to be my role model just yet.

And I totally didn't know about George Takei. That's cool.

NEWSFLASH!

Well, I just came out to my parents over the phone. Well, kind of. It was less like 'I'm gay' and more like 'It's true' (they had seen my facebook profile). It was a lot easier, but kind of felt a little too passive-aggressive. I was still thinking about telling them upfront but was secretly hoping they would stumble across it.

I still don't think my sister knows. I always thought she would be the first one. Oh well, I'm not usually the first one to hear about her escapades, even though we tell each other (almost) everything.

[NotesMaeve]

Well, the good news:

You're free. No one can out you. No one can humiliate you. Pencil it in on your calendar: Today's the day you're truly your own man and can start living up to your potential, not the mainstream subpar dreams that were the best the previous generations of our families could hold for us. Congratulations. I hope it feels every bit as magical and powerful for you as it truly is.

[The David]

I told my sister later and we had a very long and very intelligent conversation about it, and about everything else. So that went really well.

[Dan.Linehan]

Awesome, David! I'm really proud of you.

Coming out is a big milestone. I came out when I when 18, in my third year of college. Being in the closet to my dormmates the first two years SUCKED. Coming out wasn't super easy either. My Mom didn't have the best reaction for sure (are you sure you might not want to date an asian girl who doesn't expect too much? What??) and my Dad kept telling me to sleep with as many women as possible so I could at least be bi, but anything was better than being in the closet.

A couple years later my Mom and boyfriend were antiquing while I was at work. I couldn't believe it.

Pretty anti-climatic, huh?

[The David]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

are you sure you might not want to date an asian girl who doesn't expect too much?

ROFL!

Did she mean that the way it sounds to me?

Edit: Incidentally, I don't think I knew you were gay. I wonder how many of us are here?

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by The David

ROFL!

Did she mean that the way it sounds to me?

Yep, yep, she sure did.

Originally Posted by The David

Edit: Incidentally, I don't think I knew you were gay. I wonder how many of us are here?

Good question..

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

are you sure you might not want to date an asian girl who doesn't expect too much? What??

Knowing a fair number of asian girls...

...umm...

I second your reaction.

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Good question..

Why isn't a poll up yet?

Originally Posted by The David

That does help, because yes, I am a little ashamed. I'm ashamed about a lot of things in my life that not only are not wrong, but are only right.

I'm going to suppose that you don't have a boyfriend at the moment. I'd imagine that a relationship would help dissolve shame.

Originally Posted by The David

Well, I just came out to my parents over the phone. Well, kind of. It was less like 'I'm gay' and more like 'It's true' (they had seen my facebook profile).

Sounds like it went off with minimal fireworks. Very good. Depending on the people they are, that may or may not be the end of it; you'd know better than I would, but I didn't want you to miss the possibility.

I'd be curious if more people on these forums talked about homosexuality. It's a terribly interesting concept and I'm having difficulty actually understanding it as I've searched myself and have found no interest, and so cannot relate. The nice thing about this forum is that we're almost entirely safe from homophobic flaming.

[The David]

It's been discussed before, mostly with Erin Pavlina.

I should make a poll. I'm sure most people didn't suspect me, so it would be interesting to find out who else isn't straight.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Yeah, what is that about. I kinda form images in my mind of the people I talk to here. You guys (The David and Dan.Linehan) both had cute little girlfriends in my immagination. Glad to meet you both! I guess straight people assume the straightness of others until they find out otherwise. It's probably just me, but the assumptions we make about people everday interest me so much.

The David - I just wanted to say I am sending you some peace and encouragement. I can't speak to your particular situation because I haven't experienced it, but I will tell you a little story of mine. I had to tell my very religious parents I was having sex (or rather they kind of figured it out and confronted me). I was supposed to save it until marriage in their life plan. For pickle sake, I was 25 YEARS OLD. They (well, especially my mom) freaked out, but they got over it. That is to say, they don't badger me about it all the time...they still disapprove. I know it's not the same, but I think regardless of their reaction, being able to live freely without worrying about the moment when they'll find out is so much easier.

Speaking as the sister of a guy named David, she will come around. She's your sister. I can't imagine anything that would make me think less of my brother. I love him to death.

Good luck!

EDIT: Just realized I missed a lot by not reading all post first...DOH! I am glad it went fairly well.

[lizthefair]

Just want to add my congratulations, and well wishes.

I'm also glad to hear it didn't turn out as badly as you had feared (which is almost always the way of it)

[The David]

Actually, it went pretty well with my sister. I figured it probably would, as she is a bit non-religious herself.

The 'no sex at 25 thing' is ridiculous. Still, it isn't as traumatic for parents, because they know that at any point you could stop. Of course, my parents probably think I can stop being gay. I think that's actually the worst part; the complete scientific ignorance. The first thing my mom said to me when I told her was:

"Were you raped?"
"No."
"Were you molested?"
"No."
"Were you sexually involved with a guy?"
"No."

Yeah, I think I might have rather heard: "We're pulling you out of school until you stop this nonsense!" Why can't my mom just be a ♥♥♥♥♥ like every other gay guy's mom?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by The David

. Still, it isn't as traumatic for parents, because they know that at any point you could stop. Of course, my parents probably think I can stop being gay.

Good points, both. They haven't had to deal with it, but I would pity anyone who had to come out to my parents! And they do consider it a choice, not an inborn thing.

I am sorry that it's hard, but I do hope that the overall quality of your life is increased by being out. I would think with time things will be better than they were in the closet.

I find it strange, too that they immediately went to those questions. But it does reflect their point of view (the religious idea that this is something unnatural and wrong, so it must be brought on by something horrible).

Best of luck in the coming days. I think the worst is over?

[Akashic_Librarian]

This thread is a typical example of how much further our society really has to go before we can even consider ourselves civillised.

Gays, Bisexuals and Straights are all the same people underneath. Its not a mental condition...its not something you can catch, like a disease...

Its a lifestyle choice, like vegetarianism...

In some people its pre-disposed...but I think to a certain extent you can choose it.

Personally I quite like gay men...not in a sexual way, but in a friendly way...they have good dress sense, they are funny and generally more emotionally sensitive in comparison with the average meat-head prat that passes for a male of the species these days. (no offence to you straight folks out there who arn't meat-heads...I apologize...but you can understand where I am coming from right? BTW I am straight...)

But alas, alack...

I love boobs.

So...I like gay mens personality...but they just don't have the physical attributes that women do...and there are some pretty fantastic personalities out there in women...

I am just talking gibberish now.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

This thread is a typical example of how much further our society really has to go before we can even consider ourselves civillised.

Gays, Bisexuals and Straights are all the same people underneath. Its not a mental condition...its not something you can catch, like a disease...

Its a lifestyle choice, like vegetarianism...

No, it's not a disease, but when a child is suffering because he lives in a sick community and he's forced in the closet, I can tell you, it's no lifestyle choice. You have never seen the up close and personal results of being forced into the closet, and while I haven't, through no choice of my own, I've seen it. Never minimalize someone's orientation by saying it's a choice or a lifestyle until you yourself have lived through it or at the very least seen the effects.

[The David]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

No, it's not a disease, but when a child is suffering because he lives in a sick community and he's forced in the closet, I can tell you, it's no lifestyle choice. You have never seen the up close and personal results of being forced into the closet, and while I haven't, through no choice of my own, I've seen it. Never minimalize someone's orientation by saying it's a choice or a lifestyle until you yourself have lived through it or at the very least seen the effects.

I don't think he was trying to minimalize it. I've often theorized about it, and have previously come to the conclusions that orientation is not as concrete as we make it out to be. Now, because of the experiences I've had, I realize I can't --reasonably, at least--change.

I am curious, though...can you (Akashic_Librarian) control your heterosexual orientation? Some people think that homosexuality is less stable than heterosexuality, and that you can be 'convinced' out of it.