What Women Want

[NotesMaeve]

So, as per usual, I flounce into the office, early morning, past my inbox packed with papers I don't want to think about. I swing back by and am sorting through. There are two handwritten pages, from my boss' 13 year old son.

In this letter, he tells me how cool, smart, funny, and passionate I am. He thanks me for listening to him, taking time out of my day to chat about robotics with him, etc. He even refers to me as "super hot." Made me laugh out loud on that part.

I was thinking to myself: How many ADULT men would say this to their wives or girlfriends or romantic interests? Slamhot is one of the few who sends me emails and notes just to pump my ego, and you know what? This is how men end up in really happy relationships, when they learn to set forth total emotional honesty no matter what the price. Women like that. Since this site is mostly populated by men, thought you should know.

[Matthew Shea]

That's a riot, but I though you were into the older guys, Maeve.

Great points though, especially for us married guys! The one thing that comes to mind, though, is that all the ego stroking in the world isn't going to fix a relationship that's broken on a fundamental level or contains a major incompatibility. It might make for a temporary fix and can certainly make a good relationship better, though, and can certainly make for better romance.

[Angela]

Danger Man mails me handwritten thank you notes for everything and anything, little drawings of things he would like to buy me, Peanuts cartoons, and color-copied photographs of us and his kids. He draws all kinds of colorful stuff and "I love you"'s. It's like having a 13-year old boyfriend, except he's 53. He's so cool.

[wolfgang]

It occurs to me it's not about trying to pump up someone's ego - but about truely appreciating your partner and verbalizing that. The side effect is that the one receiving the appreciation gets to feel, well, appreciated.

If one goes off trying to say the right things thinking that will boost someone's ego it may not work as well as having the appreciation as the motivation for saying things that end up as ego boosts for the receiver.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

That's a riot, but I though you were into the older guys, Maeve.

I do like them legal, at the very least! It was a really great surprise.

Originally Posted by Angela

Danger Man mails me handwritten thank you notes for everything and anything, little drawings of things he would like to buy me, Peanuts cartoons, and color-copied photographs of us and his kids. He draws all kinds of colorful stuff and "I love you"'s. It's like having a 13-year old boyfriend, except he's 53. He's so cool.

That is so sweet.

Originally Posted by wolfgang

It occurs to me it's not about trying to pump up someone's ego - but about truely appreciating your partner and verbalizing that. The side effect is that the one receiving the appreciation gets to feel, well, appreciated.

If one goes off trying to say the right things thinking that will boost someone's ego it may not work as well as having the appreciation as the motivation for saying things that end up as ego boosts for the receiver.

Best point in the thread. I had not considered that. I always try to speak from a sincere place, just appreciating things, but you know, I really need to assume others are doing the same too. Thank you.

[Brutha]

I was thinking to myself: How many ADULT men would say this to their wives or girlfriends or romantic interests? Slamhot is one of the few who sends me emails and notes just to pump my ego, and you know what? This is how men end up in really happy relationships, when they learn to set forth total emotional honesty no matter what the price. Women like that. Since this site is mostly populated by men, thought you should know.

At the point when you say something like this to have an intented effect it isn't honest anymore.
It isn't authentic and it doens't work.

The child that does that is authentic, the adult man that tries to win the favor of a woman isn't.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Brutha

At the point when you say something like this to have an intented effect it isn't honest anymore.
It isn't authentic and it doens't work.

The child that does that is authentic, the adult man that tries to win the favor of a woman isn't.

Really? You think that the 13 year old boy wasn't trying to win Maeve's favor?

[Shamou]

I have said this many times... my number one priority is the lady that I call my wife...(we are not married but have been together for twenty five years.) She is the apple of my eyes and she is treated as such... and I can testify that the efforts (for lack of a better word) invested in that relationship have been worth it a thousand fold...

She is twenty three years my junior and she sees me as a rock of stability and a source of guidance in her life... I see her as the seventh wonder of the world... the ideal combination for mutual happiness...
.

[Angela]

Just as Shamou does, I think men really want to make the woman they love happy -- I think that's very important to men. Right, men?

It's not always possible for a man to read a woman's mind, especially early in the relationship. Why wouldn't a woman generously and lovingly let her man know what would make her happy -- like receiving love letters? Wouldn't a man feel grateful not to have guess all the time (and suffer guessing wrong, sometimes?)

I think it's a little stingy to treat a man like Lancelot, sitting around waiting for him to figure out what works and what doesn't. Sex, communication, affection, ... wouldn't you want your woman to let you know how to please her, without her making demands? And if Maeve can suggest something that many women in general like (a note of loving acknowledgement and appreciation), wouldn't that help, too?

Nuthin' wrong with that, is there, guys?

Of course the vice-versa goes, too.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by Shamou

She is twenty three years my junior and she sees me as a rock of stability and a source of guidance in her life... I see her as the seventh wonder of the world... the ideal combination for mutual happiness...
.

You old dog! Yowza. That's wonderful.

Originally Posted by Angela

Just as Shamou does, I think men really want to make the woman they love happy -- I think that's very important to men. Right, men?

It's not always possible for a man to read a woman's mind, especially early in the relationship. Why wouldn't a woman generously and lovingly let her man know what would make her happy -- like receiving love letters? Wouldn't a man feel grateful not to have guess all the time (and suffer guessing wrong, sometimes?)

I think it's a little stingy to treat a man like Lancelot, sitting around waiting for him to figure out what works and what doesn't. Sex, communication, affection, ... wouldn't you want your woman to let you know how to please her, without her making demands? And if Maeve can suggest something that many women in general like (a note of loving acknowledgement and appreciation), wouldn't that help, too?

Nuthin' wrong with that, is there, guys?

Of course the vice-versa goes, too.

Agreed there, Angela. I consider it a privlege to do nice things for Slamhot, and it's just nice when it gets returned, not because you expect it, but because, well, it's just nice.

I think it'd be interesting to see what men really enjoy that women do. I see so many men complaining they can't get women, but the guys who have it figured out just seem to grasp it so well.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

I think it'd be interesting to see what men really enjoy that women do.

I think that in either cases... what is expected should be shown by being an example of it...

If you want your mate to be nice... be nice... if you want your mate to be loving... be loving... if you want your mate to take good care of his/her body... you take care of yours... and you want your mate to evolve and grow... evolve and grow... etc...

Sheesh... what's so complicated about that...
.

[Ree]

Originally Posted by Shamou

I think that in either cases... what is expected should be shown by being an example of it...

If you want your mate to be nice... be nice... if you want your mate to be loving... be loving... if you want your mate to take good care of his/her body... you take care of yours... and you want your mate to evolve and grow... evolve and grow... etc...

Sheesh... what's so complicated about that...
.

Sounds simple to me. Sort of like....... the Law of Attraction?

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Ree

Sounds simple to me. Sort of like....... the Law of Attraction?

I always said it... the Law of Attraction will work if you do...
.

[JimOfferman]

One thing I've always wondered about (as I am still very much an outsider looking in, when romantic relationships are concerned), is why people use so many semi-automatic I-still-love-you's. For example, one of my colleagues at work always ends the phone conversations with his girlfriend with an obligatory "love you too". Those words don't seem to carry any affection whatsoever anymore - it's just a protocol that was consciously or sub-consciously established at one point during their relationship. To my mind, these semi-automatic responses are devoid of meaning and thus superfluous. They add nothing and only diminish the "I love you"-s that are heartfelt.

I personally would much rather just hear the sincere and passionate "I love you" that comes once a month or maybe even just once a year. The superfluous ones, I can do without...

[Matthew Shea]

Jim, there's a lot to be said for constant reassurance that you're still there for your partner, still love her and still want to be with her. Not saying that regularly will, at least for all the women I've known, make them wonder whether or not you really love them. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but it's certainly been my experience.

I tell my wife and son I love them all the time, several times a day usually, and I mean it every time. If nothing else, it fosters closeness and, as I mentioned, provides some reassurance, if only a little.

It should also be stated that, if your words are true, real love will be reflected in your actions toward your partner everyday. That's what really counts.

[openeyes]

It's funny, I gave girlfriends love letters from the time I could barely write (at age 6 I'd dictate them and my brother would write them out for me) until about age 16. Then I thought maybe I'd been going overboard, writing my girlfriend poetry most every day, not out of an attempt to win her over, but just because it felt so good to be able to express my love in words, so I stopped completely. Perhaps I'll find a happy medium yet, as I genuinely enjoy being able to let people know I care for them, and it's nice to hear that it can still be well received.

[Angela]

openeyes, that's exactly what I love about younger men -- they're still willing to put it in writing! Men seem to get a little reticent about writing valentines as they get older, especially once they've had their heart broken for the first time.

We want to read what you have to say! We want to hold it in our hands and gaze at your loving words.

[Lola]

Originally Posted by Angela

We want to read what you have to say! We want to hold it in our hands and gaze at your loving words.

...and read it and re-read it, opening it so many times the paper gets soft from the touch of our fingers and starts to fall apart at the fold lines...

[Lallymac]

Originally Posted by Angela

openeyes, that's exactly what I love about younger men -- they're still willing to put it in writing! Men seem to get a little reticent about writing valentines as they get older, especially once they've had their heart broken for the first time.

We want to read what you have to say! We want to hold it in our hands and gaze at your loving words.

I agree Angela.
I've been watching my 22 yr old son make special gift tags, scour the city for particular books and CD's and thoroughly enjoy spoiling his girlfriend who is younger than him and tends to flip it all off. She told him last weekend not call her sweetie cause it's too metro and embarrassing. My older daughters watch him and say they'd love a boyfriend who did those things. His enthusiasm and joy of doing it is sadly starting to wain.

I still cherish the handwritten notes and tear stained love letter from a younger man I had a relationship with a few years ago. I'd come home from work and he would have called in and filled the house with little bunches of wild fressias that grow on the side of the road. He'd carve words of wisdom and sayings into pieces of wood (was a boat builder) and put them in my letter box.

For me, it was the genuine little things that meant so much.

Lallymac

[carenkh]

Yeah, see... I get creeped out by those kinds of things! Not *too* much - but - it can smack of desperation. I guess the last relationship I had where I was truly showered - with poems, post cards, gifts - was with a man too insecure to be himself! It didn't take me too long to figure out he lied about almost everything, just little silly stuff, like whether he worked that day or not. I figured his gift-giving was just trying to make up for what he believed he was lacking.

So - I get suspicious when I get too much of that kinda thing.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by Lallymac

I've been watching my 22 yr old son make special gift tags, scour the city for particular books and CD's and thoroughly enjoy spoiling his girlfriend who is younger than him and tends to flip it all off. She told him last weekend not call her sweetie cause it's too metro and embarrassing. My older daughters watch him and say they'd love a boyfriend who did those things.

That's so sweet. I admit, I'd pop a strange man in the mouth for a pet name, but I let Slamhot do it. I think it takes a little maturity to appreciate the things that are just kooky and endearing. I never thought I'd be all right with ANY guy calling me "babe" or "sweetie" or "dear." That's new; probably over the last year I started being really comfortable with it.

There's a fine line between romance and tacky. When you get that, then wow. Groping, making out in public? Ew. Deep passionate kiss in the middle of the street for no reason? I could tell you what that's like, but not in mixed company.

[Angela]

NotesMaeve, I know what you mean...whenever a guy calls me "sweetheart" it's like a super-hypnosis-ray-gun; all the little hairs on my neck stand up, I lose the ability to speak, my skin gets all itchy and my muscles go sort of slack. It's more like horror than pleasure, but a little of both. Kind of like when I hear someone chewing gum while they're on the phone with me. Funny -- even thinking about that brought up the hairy-mute-itchy-slack response. Is it possible I have issues?

[NotesMaeve]

YESSSSSS, I felt that way when Slamhot first called me "babe." Sort of disarming and stops reality for a good couple of seconds. And he'll do it once a week, and it always sort of causes a reality freeze for me.

[Lallymac]

Originally Posted by carenkh

Yeah, see... I get creeped out by those kinds of things! Not *too* much - but - it can smack of desperation. I guess the last relationship I had where I was truly showered - with poems, post cards, gifts - was with a man too insecure to be himself! It didn't take me too long to figure out he lied about almost everything, just little silly stuff, like whether he worked that day or not. I figured his gift-giving was just trying to make up for what he believed he was lacking.

So - I get suspicious when I get too much of that kinda thing.

Ha ha I went out with a guy briefly when I was a teenager who did that from the first date and I ran. The young man I was talking about was strong in his masculinity and himself. He was honest, spoke his mind and listened. We didn't always agree and had interesting debates which made the things he did more endearing.
It has to be genuine. Not done to impress.
Lallymac

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

YESSSSSS, I felt that way when Slamhot first called me "babe." Sort of disarming and stops reality for a good couple of seconds. And he'll do it once a week, and it always sort of causes a reality freeze for me.

Now, *that* I can appreciate! lol I lived with a man for several years, who didn't overuse endearments, so when he did use them, it meant that much more. "Babe" was one of those words that made me all melty. Ever read any Janet Evanovich? Her description of Ranger's use of "babe" in her Stephanie Plum novels catches it perfectly. What fun.

[Adrienne]

Originally Posted by carenkh

Now, *that* I can appreciate! lol I lived with a man for several years, who didn't overuse endearments, so when he did use them, it meant that much more. "Babe" was one of those words that made me all melty. Ever read any Janet Evanovich? Her description of Ranger's use of "babe" in her Stephanie Plum novels catches it perfectly. What fun.

Exactly.. i can not read the word babe without going... god i love ranger

i never mind terms of endearment. I call my 16 and 10 year old cousins any of the following.. dear, sweetie, sweet heart, kido
the older one i frequently refer to as beast... he has always been very tall.
The young one i frequently refer to as baby, fiend and my little finish friend lol. i called him that so much that he called his cat fiend when he was two. And no, i am not being mean, he thinks the word fiend is hysterically funny. When he turned 10, i asked him if he wanted me to stop calling him baby and he said never that it was a reminder of how much i love him. For me, that is what it comes down to, its a way of saying i love you - that there is something special between you and me and that is reflected even in an address

When it comes to terms of endearment in romantic relationships, i love them, but i only love them when they mean something unique between me and that person. Like it would totally ruin it if Ranger (the most amazing character ever lol) called lulu babe..

What do women want? i think the as unique to every person.

I read this article recently, it was some girl explaining to guys what women really want in bed. i finished that article hopping no guy i ever sleep with read that... the only thing that article said was how to sleep with the author or the article such that she likes it.

Personally.... i want the world. I want someone who i mean the world to and who means the world to me. Trustworthy, highly intelligent, sense of humor, passionate, open minded, and a strong desire to change the world and be everything he can be. He has to be original and stand up for what he believes in. He appreciate me as i do him and show it. His arms have to feel like home and liking alot of sex is definitely a plus.

perhaps i am a bit demanding here, but i know i need someone who can keep up with me mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually, and who's dreams are as big as mine. I wouldn't be happy with less and i doubt a couch potato would be happy with me.

Adrienne

[Isis Kali]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

One thing I've always wondered about (as I am still very much an outsider looking in, when romantic relationships are concerned), is why people use so many semi-automatic I-still-love-you's. For example, one of my colleagues at work always ends the phone conversations with his girlfriend with an obligatory "love you too". Those words don't seem to carry any affection whatsoever anymore - it's just a protocol that was consciously or sub-consciously established at one point during their relationship. To my mind, these semi-automatic responses are devoid of meaning and thus superfluous. They add nothing and only diminish the "I love you"-s that are heartfelt.

I personally would much rather just hear the sincere and passionate "I love you" that comes once a month or maybe even just once a year. The superfluous ones, I can do without...

That's so, so true. One of my friends used to do that with her husband. I would actually wince when I heard it. I think that it loses it's specialness when it's said too much.

[Lola]

I dreamt I was the bride in a wedding last night - likely influenced by reading the what women want and what men want threads yesterday, and receiving the (surprising) announcement that a long-time-single friend is getting married.

The weird parts of the dream - which left me feeling somewhat unsettled this morning until I worked through them - were that the groom was my cousin Tom, and my uninvited ex-husband was present, which resulted in my (IRL over-protective) son calmly kicking him out. All of my immediate and extended family was present (even the no longer living ones) along with lots of other folks who were faceless shapes. The minister was represented by an actual minister here in town - one whom I've heard speak and is quite lacking in oratory skills, although he's a very kind man.

Do I even have to tell you that my immediate response to dreaming I was marrying my cousin was - ewww! (Although I do love him dearly - just not THAT way! ) Perhaps that's why I felt so unsettled when I woke up. On further reflection though, I think I was dreaming an affirmation of what I'm looking for.

Cousin Tom was a stand-in for the comfort of deep, genuine, long-lasting, completely accepting love. A fun, friendly, familiar kind of love. There's no pretense and no hidden agenda. (What's left to hide from someone you once played naked in the sprinkler with?!) My family's presence indicates security, warmth, and again - love. These are all people who accept me exactly as I am.

The ex is there as a reminder of what I don't want - fear, pain, sadness, manipulation, dishonesty, repetition of past patterns. And my son in the bouncer role, besides being a mirror of real life, reminds me although I'm generally self-sufficient and independent, it is nice to feel like there's someone looking out for me. Throw in the general wedding symbolism of new beginnings, transitions - which definitely applies to my life right now - and there you have it.

The only part I can't get a handle on is the goofy minister. I have no idea why he was there. I like to think I have much better taste than that!

[Angela]

Great dream, Lola, and skillful interpretation!

Everyone in the dream is an aspect of yourself. In that regard, how is the minister an aspect of yourself? The minister, the spiritual entity that blesses and binds the feminine and masculine within yourself (and maybe gives you permission or validation or courage to do this?) -- what does this particular guy represent in that particular regard? You say he's lacking in oratory skills, but he's a nice man. Is it possible that there is something important for you to articulate to yourself or to another person about how you want your relationships (inner female/male AND you+mate) to flow?

What words would you use to bless your ideal "marriage" (again, both internal and external)?

p.s. I just noticed you disrespected the minister a little -- "goofy"; "like to think I have better taste" -- is there some way you are downgrading your own ability to bless or validate in this area?

[Zukin]

I once read that Bill Clinton was considered to be so charismatic because when he was talking with someone, he was totally "present" - meaning that he actively listened and talked to the person as if they were the only person who was important to him at that moment.

The book I read was about political leadership, but I imagine that those skills served him well in other areas too.