4 psychics - different readings

[lironil]

Hi there,

I've approached 4 different psychics (well, 2 were card readers) regarding my situation with a guy I like. They're all pretty famous for being accurate. But so far I got 3 different readings. Well, one of the card readers was talking about things that had happened and caused the problem and it was completely different to what the other card reader said. Also the other card reader gave me a timeframe and what to do while the other psychic (not card reader) told me a different timeframe and something a little different to do. Both those two also said a bit different reasons to why it all started.

I find it all so confusing, while I want to follow their advice (well the two that gave me advice) I find it difficult when I'm not even sure about the reason. I'm still waiting for the last psychic to reply of course..

Happened to anyone before?

[illbreaker]

Originally Posted by lironil

Hi there,

I've approached 4 different psychics (well, 2 were card readers) regarding my situation with a guy I like. They're all pretty famous for being accurate. But so far I got 3 different readings...

Happened to anyone before?

Yes.

[Slorri]

I believe that this is the way it works, and should work.
Readings are not in the realm of physics, with repeatable predictable patterns, but it's metaphysics, and the answers might be very surprising.

[lironil]

The question is then if I'm truly lost (hence the reason I turned to them in the first place) how will I know the answer.. I was less than surprised with a reading I got from the first reader I approached. But the one I got last night was so different to anything I expected or imagined, and to be honest, scared me a little (she suggested the guy is seeing at least 2 other women, when the first reader stated he isn't with or interested in anyone right now). Whereas the psychic I went to said he cared for me and opened up to me and didn't mention any interest in someone else..
So this is really quick confusing lol

[Ishh]

I know what you are going through... This is making things more complicated... I donot know If this will work but I feel you shall ask your own Spirit Guide for guidance.... Well I am not very sure but that s how I feel....

[dreamland]

This is the woman I really admire and know she is very honest....
I didn't get her reading or anything but I do read what she writes on another forum and like her very much...
Here is what she says and I agree with her....

Psychic has a bit of a rant. - YouTube

[FelineNostalgia]

I find sometimes psychics get very caught up in the subjectivity of what they're seeing, which may be fair enough. This has happened to me loads of times. Maybe they're all right in some places, we all hold different layers of information inside us and I suppose they're reacting to certain ones closer to what they're aligned with. I find also with overly opinionated psychics they tell you things which actually relates more to them or what they're going through. Hope this helps.

[lironil]

Ishh, I'm not very good at connecting I fear. Any tips on how to connect to my spirit guide? I tried what you put before in the forum with your guardian angel. I always feel I don't connect deep enough.


Thanks dreamland and FelineNostalgia.. well, I'm still awaiting an answer from another reader. I suppose if her reading fits anything said before I'll go with that, if not I will just have to continue following my gut feeling and hope for the best. I guess sometimes the sign is we just know better than anyone.

[Bonadea]

You ask 4 people the same question, get 4 different answers.

They are not ominous beings with all the answers, so what each one will get will be a different perspective.

From here, go with your gut.

[Erin Pavlina]

Just wrote an article about this:

Why don’t multiple psychics give the exact same predictions and information?

[lironil]

Thank you Eric, I read through and it's very helpful. To be honest in my case it was mostly information regarding 'now' that confused me (each one of them said different things about how he feels). But bottom line is I think I will go with the answer I felt most connected to and use the advice that psychic gave me (which, to be honest, was what I planned to do since the beginning). Anything else feels wrong for me.

[Blue Sparks]

lironil, if you would for a moment consider what I have to say, I will give you a true diamond of knowledge.

You can and will find all the answers you will ever need about your personal/life problems and decisions through introspection, deep contemplation and understanding yourself and your behaviors. The key word here is understanding. Knowing and understanding your motives is also extremely important. Once you begin to understand yourself, your behaviors, your emotions, why you do things, why you desire certain things etc, then you will have the power to make genuine changes in your life.

I don't imagine many "psychics" would want their clients to know these things, assuming they even know these things in the first place. There are always people out there who profit from ignorance and with-holding real knowledge. The truth is, you don't need to hire a psychic to tell you why you have certain emotional problems, you don't need to hire a psychic to tell you what decision to make.

All of such answers can be found within yourself through humble introspection and gradual understanding, period. Also, people with a genuine and vivid spirituality and inner life know and understand how unimportant money is, they also understand how evil and corrupting money and materialism is to the mind and soul, and would never even conceive of charging someone who is truly in need money, in return for help or guidance. Such an act would be unimaginably self-corrupting to the spiritually developed person.

The very fact that a "psychic" would charge you money for "spiritual guidance" is more than enough reason to avoid them, because their own spirituality and understanding is not sufficiently developed, they will not be able to help you very much, if at all. Again, a genuine spiritually developed person would never make you pay to receive guidance, but such a person would in every case be more than willing to do it for free, because their satisfaction is the warm-tender feeling of having helped their fellow man out of sincere love, kindness, concern and understanding. Compared to this, money is worth less than a dictionary is to a cow.

Say a person comes to you after a lifetime of emotional difficulty and lack of guidance, or some other problem. Would you say, "I understand your problem and I know how to help you, but I will need $397. After you pay me I will answer your questions and help you, but only for 30 minutes"? Is that not basically stating that the persons emotional health and happiness is worth less than your personal gain?

Say you come across someone on the street who is suffering in terrible agony from some disease that has become an epidemic, and days earlier you discovered the cure in your lab. Would you say to this suffering person, "I discovered the cure in my lab and I will give it to you, but only after you pay me $797, your aid will be limited to one hour based on what you have payed me". Is that not basically stating that the money is worth more than the persons well-being?

What's more important?
A. Seeing to it that your fellow man is helped
or
B. the personal or monetary gain from helping your fellow man

If you saw an injured puppy on the side of the road that was yelping out in pain, and you know that you have a full tank of gas and can easily drive the puppy to the vet to get help, would you stand there and say, "I will help this injured and suffering animal, but only if someone pays me for the gas it will take to drive 5 miles to the vet"? I think most people would help that animal out of compassion and concern without even having to think about it, let alone an incentive. The same should be true when it comes to helping one another.

In other words, its selfish, greedy, unethical, immoral and evil to trade what should be sincere acts of concern and compassion for your own benefit, gain or other incentive.

You will never see a truly spiritual and wise person make a business of selling help/guidance for money/personal gain, their conscience would buckle under the weight of guilt and hypocrisy after only one customer. False teachers and spiritualists can be easily detected according to this ethic.

[Bonadea]

Blue sparks,

Why shouldn't a psychic charge for their services? They are taking time and energy away from their day to provide a service for someone else. That's time and energy they could be using to make money doing something else.

Why are they the only ones that should be expected to provide their gifts in life for free. You wouldn't expect someone who sings professional to do it for free. You wouldn't expect a doctor to work for free, a house cleaner, a dog walker.

I have a friend who does Reiki. She loves it, loves helping people. Would love nothing more to do it full time, but she's afraid that if she excepts money people won't take her seriously.

She spent a lot of money to learn what she does. The table costs money, the things she uses costs money, the magazines to keep up to date. Why shouldn't she be able to charge without feeling guilty?


All the ones I know are good hard working people trying their best just like everyone else. Most do classes so you can learn to do this stuff on your own. It's not some secret they are keeping from you.

But like anything else, sometimes it's just nice to have someone else do it for you. I can paint my own nails, but sometimes it's nice to go for a manicure. Actually I've never done it, but you get my point.


Of course, like with every profession, you'll have a bad apple here or there who's only in it to milk people. But most of these people are not scam artist.

[Erin Pavlina]

Do you know what happens to really great psychics who feel guilty charging for their services? They go get jobs that make them unhappy and suffer all day doing something they hate because the feel too guilty earning a living doing what helps others and makes them feel like they're contributing. And what a shame that is.

Took me a long time to realize that I have a right to eat, like everyone else, and that my greatest contribution to others is to honor my gift, use it in service to humanity, and to allow people to give me value in return.

To say someone is not spiritual because they receive payment for their service is the reason why some of our best psychics are not practicing (or helping people) today. And what a waste that is.

[Bonadea]

Erin, thank you. You put it a lot nicer than I did.



This one gets me very upset. We pay people for a lot lesser skills without a second thought, but span heaven and earth, oh no, you should do that for free or else you're a fake. Oh OK.

[illbreaker]

I agree with some of what Blue Sparks wrote. Stop seeking psychics for answers. There are a lot of fakes out there. Even "real" psychics come back with poor information sometimes. Then if the information is found to be wrong, there's always the cop out that your spirit guide, etc. thought it was best for you not to know, grow, mature, etc. You paid to get information, and then you find out that it was worthless. Caveat Emptor.

[lironil]

Thanks guys. I gotta say I don't think asking for money for it is wrong, and I only contacted psychics I got good reviews about. I'm aware of fakes.. and also some abuse it and ask for insane amounts of cash. I went to ones who were quite fair.
Still, when you get good reviews about them then one says the guy I like really likes me, another says he drifts in and out as he's confused and pursues other girls, then another doesn't even mention him liking me just the fact he's apparently dating loads of girls so it's confusing.
My gut feeling does tell me he likes me.. because I find it hard to find answers for things that happened if he doesn't. I suppose that's enough for me to know how to act next as if he does, I can't give up on it just yet. I just need to give it time because well, I do also believe he's confused. It's just really hard cos I'm an extremely impatient person lol

[Bonadea]

My gut says there's a much better door to open if you shut this window.

[lironil]

I'm not going to shut any window though before I sort it out, I just can't. That's my own gut feeling.

[Blue Sparks]

Money, what do you do with money? You pay an assassin money to commit murder, you bribe a politician or a judge with money to pervert justice and to make decisions in accordance with a criminals desire, with money you buy a Cadillac Escalade that gets 10 MPG and wrecks the quality of air for everyone.

Women are kidnapped by the busload, prostituted, wrecked emotionally and traumatized for this little thing called money, people are made into slaves and labored to death for the profits of others. Greed and lust for money is why America is in the shape it's in right now.

I have contemplated the evils throughout history done in the name of money and I find nothing pure about it, it corrupts the hearts and minds of people, it is inconceivable for me to sell an act of kindness for money.

Serving others with help and guidance, I find this to be a worthwhile pursuit, I see nothing evil or corrupt about doing such things, because when you help someone you do it out of genuine compassion and concern for that persons well being. But when you start trading what are supposed to be acts of compassion for money, your motives are no longer whole and genuine, the heart-felt compassion and concern for the other person is lessened and becomes tainted by the desire for your personal physical gain,.

In essence, you are trading a higher, spiritual act of helping others, for a lower, physical monetary gain, wealth. The two natures contradict each other. So you mix spiritually serving others with physical material gain, you get selfish-serving, it's a contradiction of the spirituality and goodness you so profess to adhere to.

But you don't need to charge money, because you will find that the reward felt in your spirit by serving another person with pure motives is far superior to that of gaining material wealth for the same act, though, in my opinion someone shouldn't serve or help another person spiritually for a reward or personal gain in the first place.

Put it this way,

Spiritually helping someone emotionally and mentally.
Physically mowing someones lawn.

you serve someone in spirit, you get paid in spirit
you mow somebody's lawn, you get paid with money.

Originally Posted by Bonadea

Why are they the only ones that should be expected to provide their gifts in life for free. You wouldn't expect someone who sings professional to do it for free. You wouldn't expect a doctor to work for free, a house cleaner, a dog walker.

Your comparing trivial acts like singing, cleaning a house and walking a dog to serving somebody mentally and emotionally.

Originally Posted by Bonadea

But like anything else, sometimes it's just nice to have someone else do it for you.

Spiritual development and personal growth isn't something you buy or have someone do for you.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by Blue Sparks

Money, what do you do with money? You pay an assassin money to commit murder, you bribe a politician or a judge with money to pervert justice and to make decisions in accordance with a criminals desire, with money you buy a Cadillac Escalade that gets 10 MPG and wrecks the quality of air for everyone.

Dude...I don't know what you're doing with your money, but I just pay my bills and buy food for my family.

If it could be possible to live without money in a comfortable way, I could understand, but especially here in America it is virtually impossible. So it's either offer services and make sure you give as much as you can, even if it means doing more than what was paid for, work in a job that is not fulfilling in anyway and not have time to do these things that you feel as if you're being called to do, or be homeless and do readings.

I mean seriously, I understand there is a point where it's abuse, but psychics have to eat too. If a person is willing to pay for the service, it's because they do value it and feel it's worth that. Money is only evil if you view it that way and use it that way. Money cannot be avoided in this society.

How are you paying for you internet service? Seriously. You must be making money somehow to be here. If a person has the ability to help others and others are willing to pay for that because they feel it is valuable, where is the evil in that? What about the people who pay $50 for a reading and are given advice that helps set then up financially for the rest of their lives? That $50 is NOTHING compared to how valuable the information that was given is.

I know a woman who has a client that she's basically helped become a millionaire. She's never asked money for her readings, but she is given donations. We'll just say after he was able to make this money, he's given her some large donations for her readings because he understood she NEEDED the money and she was spending her time and energy helping him, which he values greatly and has been worth much more to him than what he has paid for them.

[Bonadea]

Exactly if someone has the means to do so without having to charge, great.

But we all have bills to pay and someone can either work that into a profession to help people or not do it.

My friend does Reiki. She's very good at it, but because she's so afraid to take money for doing it, she keeps her day job and only does a few people when she can fit them in.

What a waste, all because people who think that because it's a gift, they shouldn't charge.

[HiImJeremy]

Blue Sparks

I think where you're at now in terms of consciousnes has brought you to this conclusion. With time and reflection, im certain you will change your mind. Allow me to raise these points.

You seem to think money is the evil thing. Money is a piece of paper and a number on a screen. It's worth represents our desires, goals, oppurtunities, possessions even. I think it's peoples relationship with money that can get out of hand. So, is the piece of paper evil? Sit back and ask yourself that question and really fairly consider it. Is the piece of paper what corrupts people or do people become corrupt for the money? A distinct difference.

Psychologists and counsellers recieve money to help people with problems. They go to study extensively and put time and effort into learning so they can help these people and so they can be worth something for their time.

Now psychologists help us mentally and emotionally. With your logic, their reward should just be their satisfaction with a job well done. You serve someone mentally and emotionally, you get paid in mental and emotional satisfaction. That's nice and all, but satisfaction in that client isn't going to hold up with the bank when they can't make a mortgage payment.


Psychics, though they are different to psychologists, are a little bit of an offshoot. Their goal primarily is to find where you're at right now, and how they can help you with some of the issues you have. To get to the point they're at ( the good ones) they needed training, a lot of effort and time. Someone comes for a reading, might gain a good deal of help, and then leave without paying. All good, spirit pays them right? Well, Spirit food might sound nice in theory, but it doesn't feed my family.

When you have a service performed for you, it is etiquette to give something in return. When you buy milk, you exchange a sum of money equal to that of the milk, so that you can recieve the milk.

When you have a psychic reading, it might be very nice to say they should be paid in spirit - but they don't feed you, clothe you and keep a roof over your head. It's about balance and it's about living.

If you can provide someone a service, while doing what you love and love what you're doing then it is an honorable thing to be able to live abundantly providing that service.

I notice in the spiritual community that we were all brought up in this sort of judeo christian consensus belief system that it's good and spiritual to be poor. I don't think this is the case at all, in fact money provides you with a lot of things. Better living conditions, being able to afford good food for a healthier diet, better education for our children, adding some fun into life and being a little more secure and confortable. What's so bad about having those things? Not everyone is evil. I think what you're saying is a little old fashion and a bit unfair.

[Blue Sparks]

Should I elaborate on every single little thing? You all seem to be missing the key point here. For the sake of keeping my argument brief I stated only one side of my view on money, but in no way do I believe money is the absolute evil and should be avoided at all cost. I believe in moderation, along the lines of "not taking more than what you need", I think it should be especially of concern to anyone on the spiritual path the corrupting effects money can have. But I have a bank account too. There's nothing bad about those things Jeremy, the point I've been trying to get across for three posts is that it is not a very good motive to help someone for your own personal gain, its a contradiction.

When you help someone it's not about you or your gain, but theirs. How have we confounded money, with acts of kindness? It's as if we are so lacking in concern for each other, that humanity needs an incentive to help and to better one another? Ironic seeing how one of the main New Age tenets is that of unconditional love, but here it's conditional love, based on how many hundreds of dollars your willing to spend? It is sad to see even the people that aren't selling their kindness, defend the people that are, and act almost as if selling and buying acts of kindness were a "cool fad". Has it really come to this?

I suppose that your ethics are subject to change if it were a fad of some sort, but this would be expected of a more mainstream audience who have no concept of philosophy what-so-ever or reason to be moral to their fellow creature, besides the fear of going to hell and jail.

But you guys are here obviously because you have at least somewhat woken up to the illusion of the "mainstream", and you study spiritualism. So how is it you guys can justify personal gain being a sound motive to do good and helpful things for one another? (Since "helpful things" is quite general, lets specify, emotional help and guidance.) If your sister or brother called you and was feeling terrible and needed some guidance, would you tell him/her to "book a session"? Of course not, you wouldn't make your own family pay. But aren't we all a part of the human family, Earth being our home?

The importance of money I believe has long been over-exaggerated. This is especially true in western society, obviously, it has come to a point where even the western spiritualists need an incentive to do something nice for their fellow creature. There is something fundamentally wrong here with the act (of selling kindness), and society as a whole, I just don't believe the two (money and kind acts) should be mixed. I'll close with a quote from the introduction of Thomas Paine's Common Sense essay.

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom."

I know you guys can get it.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by Blue Sparks

Should I elaborate on every single little thing? You all seem to be missing the key point here. For the sake of keeping my argument brief I stated only one side of my view on money, but in no way do I believe money is the absolute evil and should be avoided at all cost. I believe in moderation, along the lines of "not taking more than what you need", I think it should be especially of concern to anyone on the spiritual path the corrupting effects money can have. But I have a bank account too. There's nothing bad about those things Jeremy, the point I've been trying to get across for three posts is that it is not a very good motive to help someone for your own personal gain, its a contradiction.

When you help someone it's not about you or your gain, but theirs. How have we confounded money, with acts of kindness? It's as if we are so lacking in concern for each other, that humanity needs an incentive to help and to better one another? Ironic seeing how one of the main New Age tenets is that of unconditional love, but here it's conditional love, based on how many hundreds of dollars your willing to spend?

I suppose that your ethics are subject to change as if it were a fad of some sort, but this would be expected of a more mainstream audience who have no concept of philosophy what-so-ever or reason to be moral to their fellow creature, besides the fear of going to hell and jail.

But you guys are here obviously because you have at least somewhat woken up to the illusion of the "mainstream", and you study spiritualism. So how is it you guys can justify personal gain being a sound motive to do good and helpful things for one another? (Since "helpful things" is quite general, lets specify, emotional help and guidance.) If your sister or brother called you and was feeling terrible and needed some guidance, would you tell him/her to "book a session"? Of course not, you wouldn't make your own family pay. But aren't we all a part of the human family, Earth being our home?

The importance of money I believe has long been over-exaggerated. This is especially true in western society, obviously, it has come to a point where even the western spiritualists need an incentive to do something nice for their fellow creature. There is something fundamentally wrong here with the act (of selling kindness), and society as a whole, I just don't believe the two should be mixed. I'll close with a quote from the introduction of Thomas Paine's Common Sense essay.

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom."

I know you guys can get it.

I think you might be a little mislead in thinking that profit from offering psychic or healing services is some kind of new age thing. From what I understand, people were bartering and offering gifts to medicine men, witches, shaman, etc., for their services for as long as they've been documented in time because those people viewed those services as valuable. It's is not one taking from another, it is two people HELPING one another by exchanging things that are valuable for the other.

If a psychic sees that someone will get hit by a bus if they step out into the street just at that moment, rest assured if they are a good person, they will say, HEY YOU, STOP! and not ask to be paid for helping that person.

However, if someone actively seeks out the advice, energy, and services of a psychic then they themselves are willing to pay for these services because they view them as helpful and valuable. You simply cannot bring someone a dead hog for dinner as a thankyou these days and it be useful to the person you give it to. Well, unless you live where I do! LOL. Then it may become breakfast sausage, but that's beside the point. Money is a much more viable and reasonable gift in exchange for services.

I feel like you are being very judgemental here and it is unfair to the people who do their very best to help others out. I can attest that if you give your services away for free all the time, that you will spend 24 hours a day on the phone or in e-mails helping others while you are unable to provide for yourself. There is nothing wrong with asking to be paid for a valuable service as long as it is honestly valuable and you are not scamming or taking advantage. A person who installs floors for a living is helping another by putting new floors in their home so the owners don't have to do it themselves. They also ask to be paid for it because it consumes much time and energy, just as doing readings do, and it is a desired service that is valuable.

Also, being psychic does not equate to being spiritual. They seem to come hand in hand many times simply because of the doors that are opened, but a psychic does not HAVE to be spiritual therefore being psychic is not necessarily a spiritual path. I feel like that is also a misconception and a psychic should not be expected to be someone who is also very spiritual and will "abide" by these laws and limitations that are set by others' values.

Who decided money was root of evil? Man did...I don't think spirit had much of anything to do with that at all. Man is also telling us that we're selfish and not spiritual if we accept money for psychic services. Spirit isn't saying that at all.

[Blue Sparks]

When it pertains to another persons personal development, emotional health and well-being you do not demand the person pay you for your help, this is unethical. The same money you charged to help that person could also be used to hire a murder, so you see money can be used for good and bad, but acts of kindness and helping others can never be used in a bad way. There is a very subtle point I have been trying to make with this comparison but I'm having a hard time putting it into words, it seems there are no words to describe it. It's like your trading a greater for a lesser, acts of kindness for money, a pure for an impure, it makes no sense, it's a contradiction. When you help someone your reward is heartfelt, you feel it inside, you feel better about yourself but you don't do it for a reward. Why taint it with the motive of acquiring money? It's about helping and serving the other person, not about serving yourself by getting something like money out of it. Serve the other and not yourself.

I laid out several good examples but it seems still no one gets it. I thought this was a sort of spiritual forum!

[Albalida]

I'd like to hear all your thoughts on the "payment for emotional support" issue, so I made a thread here.

As for the four readings? Hmm, I don't like tuning in to romantic stuff. To me, at least, it's a royal mess. There's the maze of each individual's psyche, there's this bubble of privacy, there's free will in spades more than an inquiry about systemic abundance or individual purpose, expectations and emotions all leaving their own psychic imprint. I'm unsurprised by the conflicting information, you would have gotten a much more conclusive reading by asking your man directly if he sees a future with you in it.

[HiImJeremy]

Originally Posted by Blue Sparks

When it pertains to another persons personal development, emotional health and well-being you do not demand the person pay you for your help, this is unethical. The same money you charged to help that person could also be used to hire a murder, so you see money can be used for good and bad, but acts of kindness and helping others can never be used in a bad way. There is a very subtle point I have been trying to make with this comparison but I'm having a hard time putting it into words, it seems there are no words to describe it. It's like your trading a greater for a lesser, acts of kindness for money, a pure for an impure, it makes no sense, it's a contradiction. When you help someone your reward is heartfelt, you feel it inside, you feel better about yourself but you don't do it for a reward. Why taint it with the motive of acquiring money? It's about helping and serving the other person, not about serving yourself by getting something like money out of it. Serve the other and not yourself.

I laid out several good examples but it seems still no one gets it. I thought this was a sort of spiritual forum!

You may think you've laid down some good examples - but it's the same old crap really. Heard it all before. You're repeating the same old argument. It's been thoroughly fleshed out and countered many times over. How crazy we must all be for allowing to value ourselves, right? We musn't be spiritual at all!

I don't think it's fair you've used your limiting beliefs about money to chastise people who don't see it the same way.

That being said, this is all within reason. If your paying $800 for only half an hour or even an hour with one person - then you'd wanna bloody make sure it's worth it. Me personally - i don't care how good you are- $800 is going to feed my family for 2 weeks so they ( The psychic) can dream on lol.

[emerge]

Blue Sparks,

While it is true that money can and has been used for a wide variety very bad things it also can and has been used for a wide variety of good things as well. People donate money to a wide range of good causes, like bulding new hospitals or adding a specialized wing on a hospital. They donate money to animal shelters and other animal rights organizations. They donate money to womens shelters and food banks and the Red Cross and the list can go on and on.

Money is just a form of energy and as energy can be used for "good" or "bad" depending upon the person who is using it. In that respect money is no different from a computer. A person can use a computer to help others or to cause pain and suffering.

The bad/ evil things that you have stated as being being done for money you are blaming it on the money. While I understand your confusion you must realize that it is the person that is weilding the money or desiring the money that is to blame and not the money itself.

It's the people, it's the organization, it's the individual and it's their own beliefs about money, their desires pertaining to money, and it's these people's willingness to place aquiring money or aquiring the things money can bring as more important than their fellow humans. It's the people not the money.

Originally Posted by Blue Sparks

.....but acts of kindness and helping others can never be used in a bad way.

Kindness can kill, maim, inhibit, and paralyze!

I used to take care of an eldery lady who was originally bedridden and had difficulty chewing after a lengthy hosptal stay. Her children loved her so much they would do anything for her. They showered her with kindness and compassion. They knew she had to keep eating something so they were feeding her jello because it required no chewing. They thought they were being kind to their mother in her last days. They were actually killing her from malnutrition.

A mother whose child has been injured and requires painful physical therapy on a daily basis thinks she is being kind to her child by not doing the physical therapy at home as directed by the Physical Therapist can pervent the child from fully healing and could result in the child being crippled for the rest of their life.

I can go on with examples of how kindness can inhibit or paralyze a person's spiritual growth or independence.

Being kind to someone is not always the right action to take to help them.

Originally Posted by Blue Sparks

Your comparing trivial acts like singing, cleaning a house and walking a dog to serving somebody mentally and emotionally.

You obviously have no idea just how these acts effect some people. Just because you view them as trivial doesn't mean everybody does.

Originally Posted by Blue Sparks

Spiritual development and personal growth isn't something you buy or have someone do for you.

It may suprise you that there are a whole lot of people out there who don't give a rat's behind about spiritual development or personal growth. They are too focused on survival for anything like that. They want answers and they want hope. They are more concerned about keeping a roof over their's and their children's head, can they afford to buy food this week, is their daughter going to be raped while walking to school this morning, is their son going to be beaten or killed by a street gang..... Can they keep all their employees working next week or will they have to lay off one or two people, will they be able to continue doing business with X company that provides them with great products or will they have to switch to products that are cheaper in price and quality.....

And if they had more money just imagine the good they could do with it.

[thecommoner]

Of course this is a pretty old post. I accidently jumped on it. The argument that was going on here was from 2 different perceptions. 'Blue sparks' has some points to make and is well appreciated. However the fact remains that as long as the spirits is in mortal bodies they need to feed them ,for which they have to resort to 'beg borrow or steal'. Many saints of the East ( I refer India specifically) were non materialistic and cared less about the material part. They virtually begged near the temples ( Survived on voluntary food and donations) and didn't care about if nothing was available on a particular day.

One interesting story would give some insights. The great philosopher. Mystic and enlightened soul Thirumoolar used to spend his time in Dhyana( meditation) in Chidambaram Temple Of India. Once an ordinary beggar approached him and asked for alms. The saint smiled and replied that he was poor and he (the beggar) could try with another saint who was meditating on the other entrance of the same temple. The beggar approached the other saint and asked for alms. But he gave the same reply as Thirumoolar gave. The beggar was greedy and told the second saint that he was directed by the saint on the other entrance( Thirumoolar) . The other great saint smiled in revelation ( Contemparory of Thirumoolar and anonymous) threw his begging bowl to the beggar and told "Take it", He knew that Thirumoolar never kept a begging Bowl infront of him.I (In fact Thirumoolar, the great preceptor was giving a lesson on renunciation to his contemparory, through this episode.)

Thirumoolars are few. Time (perceptive) has changed.Although the above philosophy is worth emulating most of the present day psychics are not Avadhootas( Renounced spiritual seekers and evolved souls). It is not fair to expect this kind of approach to life from them. It is their choice and I do not find any reason why it ( the approach) should make them less psychic although it would make them less renounced.