I just want to know how everybody knows everything.
 

LOL! I'm sorry, but I'm reading through a lot of posts and there seems to be so much knowledge out there that people look at as concrete and share as fact. A lot of it is based on faith, personal experience, books they've read, mentor views.

I want to know how you KNOW. How do you know? And how do you know well enough to tell anyone else that they're conflicting views are wrong?

I'm here to proclaim right now that I know absolutely nothing and it is perhaps the most uplifting position I've ever been in. I've argued my views on things, theories, thought about my own personal spiritual and paranormal experiences, but when I'm asked for proof, I have none. None that can transfer to anyone else. Everyone's seem to vary so much.

So there we are. How do I know what I believe, feel, see, hear, think is true? I don't. I feel it is true, but I know nothing.

How do you know? What makes it ok for any of us to pick apart and try to disprove others' beliefs. I've done it recently on the subject of solipsism, afterwhich I gave myself time to think about my actions and how belittling, invalidating they could have been to that individual and I felt horrible. <----that I do know.

There is not much point in this thread or this post. I'm not even sure what section to put it in. But regardless of my judgement of other peoples' experiences, my feelings on their beliefs, etc., how do I decide and debate whether the other person is wrong if I actually know nothing at all? I simply cannot and I'm now starting to believe that I should not. EVER. It's not my place to impose my beliefs on others. Maybe share things and give them something to think about if I feel it could help, but never tell them they're wrong. Because quite frankly I don't know what's right.

Does that make any sense? Any relation out there to these thoughts?

You pretty much answered yourself. Doing studies, reading up, personal experience, practicing. And the number one rule: BELEIF. If something happens to you, you either beleive it is really happening or you say "No."

I suggest you study up on something that interests you. Read, try to perform the actions, and just beleive. You will learn more than most people after doing it for a long time.

Well, I know what I believe. I do know that. But I've seen people basically telling others that they are wrong in what they do believe and in their practices. Religion is a good example. I've done that myself. What I'm asking, I suppose, is more along the lines of who do we think we are to refute other peoples' experiences and tell them they're incorrect. This applies to spirituality, paranormal experiences, theology, etc.

I guess the thought came to me that I feel what I believe is truth, but what gives me the right to tell someone else that what they believe and feel is not truth when it's different from what I believe? I'm seeing that a lot and I want to know why we do this? Is it for validation of our own beliefs? Is it to destroy others' beliefs so that ours are the only left? Is it ego feeding?

I probably should have put this in the spirituality section. I post in paranormal out of habit, I guess.

Thank you for putting this so lucidly! Have been contemplating the same issue the past few days, castigating myself for the same pettiness (but I let that go now, it's not good for the brain), and I just smile at the synchronicity. The relief is enormous though, isn't it? To 'not know' and it is OK... :D

If a Christian has an athiest friend, and they would go to hell, wouldn't they try to save them? Beleif is taking a risk at what you know, and others will try to prove you wrong and make you "safer" to what they beleive. We do not tend to destroy others' ideas, but to make them right as we see it.

It's perhaps a deep sense of insecurity, specially about identity? But honestly, I think it's Mercury's fault as well - it has recently been in retrograde and I think the bugger is still messing with our comms. I read the threads and see how people who are perfectly reasonable and wise otherwise (haha, see what I did there), suddenly misunderstand and get rather defensive and tetchy over nothing much.

Just to make myself clear - I do believe that what you say is applicable, no matter how the planets are aligned; I just think it's prudent to keep in mind that this 'I'm right, you're wrong'-issue will be emphasised and high-lighted even now. Also a very good time to contemplate why we're doing this (so bravo to you), but I mention it just in case someone needs to dis someone else over whatever in this thread... :D

Well, I can't speak for everyone here, but SOME of the people here on the board, and I'm pretty sure I fall into this category, is that before we incarnated into this lifetime we decided to come here on the Internet and help awaken others through our "knowing", of what to do, what methods to use... etc.

I know that may seem a bit silly but in truth, many are here "on assignment", from the higher realms, and in turn we had many, many life experiences in this life that were sort of an education in spiritual topics.

So with some people here on these forums, there's more to who they are than meet's the eye. One person I would like to point out and everybody probably already knows him is ChrisL, some of his post's or maybe all of them... are really priceless, time and time again I find myself saying that "wow... that was a great answer"... when I read through his posts.

I'm sure we could think of others too... but the point I'm making is that many here are specially trained to hand-out guidance and this was done and set-up before we were born.... and of course when we were all in Spirit, we were VERY excited to come here and re-discover all this stuff with the help of our good friends who are also experts at this!!

Yes, this is exactly what I mean! To not know is fine. Why do people feel the need to push themselves on each other (myself included) and change their beliefs?

It is so hard to put into words exactly what I'm trying to express right now. lol.

Like I said, it's so hard to explain what I'm trying to say. The thoughts are so abstract and hard to put into words without imposing my own beliefs.

Personally, I also believed in reincarnation and that we come here for lessons and to teach from our own experiences. Then that is challenged.

So then goes an argument about "this is this" and "that is that" etc., etc., and I have to wonder "what is what?" LOL. I say I believe these things and I'm telling this other person they're wrong when I have no way to prove them wrong. They're basing their beliefs on their experiences just as I am, so who I am to invalidate their experiences to tell them they're wrong.

I love what you say here. Use what you know to help others. I think that's the bottom line here. Why don't we, instead of telling someone they're wrong, work within other peoples' comfort zones and beliefs to help them overcome their issues?

One of the things I personally believe more than anything else is that in the scheme of things it doesn't matter what we believe. So I think if it doesn't matter, then we can apply whatever wisdom we've gained from whatever belief system, experiences, etc., we've had to help anyone else with different beliefs without invalidating them in anyway.

Does that make any sense? LOL. I feel like a basket case trying to explain myself.

Thank you so much, Christa! I am seeing the same things and even doing it myself! I hate it when I get into defensive mode about my beliefs. It makes me question them intensely. Then again, it turns into a learning experience and I'll have a moment of humility that reminds me that my beliefs, thoughts, existence are no more real, truthful, or important than anyone else's. I have no right to try to impose myself on anyone else. What's the point? LOL.

I agree that the "I'm right, you're wrong" issue will probably rear it's head here. Maybe everyone's right! Maybe everyone's wrong! We can all argue until we're blue in the face, but we won't know until we're dead...if even then.

You're expressing yourself just fine. Well, to me at least! I think us humans are at a junction in our collective spiritual development where we are forced to shed the illusion of separation - and it is SORE! So we fight for the deep seated belief that each of us is a separate 'identity'....which has beliefs that just must be right. Haha, I believe/know thisthattheother, therefore I am, summin' like?!

But we are one, to quote mr Lennon, and shedding the old skin of separatedness, and all the follies of I'mRightYou'reWrong that go with it, will happen.

Now I feel my words are all muddled. But it is OK, I still don't know, and it's still a relief!!!

thank you for this. This makes perfect sense to me. Perhaps one day we'll all realize that past our Earthly ventures, we have very little control or say in what happens until we get there and it does nothing but cause harm to constantly argue about who is wrong and who is right. THAT is my belief, and perhaps other people disagree, but I don't care because even when saying what I believe, I don't really know if it's the truth. All I know is that it feels right to me. LOL!! Other people may feel comforted and right in other directions.

If it doesn't matter then, well, ... it doesn't matter! LOL!

OMGosh! It does seem to be one of the hardest things to verbalize.

Exactly, perhaps we'll get to the point where nothing matters! Because everything matters! And we don't mind! :D How's that for lucid.

You know, I need to mention this - 'Momo' is one of my most most favourite childhood-books Ever...it was written by Michael Ende, also author of Neverending Story. Do you know it? It's about a girl who knew how to listen, and because she just listened, something magical happened to people who talked to her. It has a sad ending, which I have of course forgotten the details of, but the book touched me deeply.

:) Sounds pretty darn lucid to me!

People have mentioned the character Momo to me a couple of times, actually, but I've never read it. I think I'm going to have to now! LOL! This is at least the fourth time I've been asked about Momo. It sounds like a good book! I loved The Neverending Story, so I'm sure it's great. :D

Sorry Yazkin, I didn't see this before because so many posts came at the same time.

When applying this to religion, it's really difficult because we're talking about the salvation of one's soul. So can we do this for others without telling them we're wrong? And can we do this whole heartedly believing we are right?

I am not Christian, so it's a little hard for me to understand the reasons behind trying to save someone since I don't really believe we have to accept Christ for salvation. But I don't think there is anything wrong with that because I don't think it matters either way. It brings comfort to people. I understand why a Christian wouldn't view this the same way as I do, though, because basically not accepting Christ as Savior means a one-way ticket to hell. LOL. Nobody wants that.

I think it's a really noble thing to attempt to save someone and spread the word of what you believe with good intention; however, I feel like it's pointless unless the person you're trying to help is willing to receive the information and believe what you say. I don't think I would try to force my beliefs on Christians anymore (trust me, I've tried) or even argue the cause because I know that faith in God and salvation brings a lot of comfort to people and I don't see the harm in believing. I see much more good than harm, actually. It's when we decide to argue and fight about it where the harm comes in, so I think that's what we should try to avoid.

Congratulations to your ignorance which you're so proud of, momo3bur! But your soul is omniscient as much as everyone else's :).

Merrick

I like not knowing anything. It's very empowering, yet I do need to remind myself sometimes.

The more I ask myself "Is this true?" , the more I learn. For a while I continued to look for information from the outside (books/other people) when I should have been looking in. To answer the original question- we all think we know the truth so we want others to know too. Look within wins everytime ;)


I ask myself

"What is true?"
"Who am I?"

I wrote this out for a while because every time I went back to it I realised how 'wrong' i was only the night before :)

(this was taken from Jed McKenna's books)

LOL! Well, my soul sure might be but my brain isn't. It sure we be nice for them to catch up sometime. Maybe they can manage to do that sometime BEFORE I die. LOL.

AH! Yes. I understand this on so many levels. It's a constant battle. LOL. So I just decided to wave the white flag and accept that no matter what I believe, I really don't know a thing for sure, so I might as well be accepting of everything and everyone as equal.

I don't think you saw what i intend to put. I was giving an example. Wouldn't you try to correct someone if they were wrong? And if your friend was performing a ritual that you saw as bad, wouldnt you correct him?

I am just saying that it is the human nature to be right, and try to bring others into equal mind so that your ideas are the greater.

I used Christianity and conversion to give a very good example :o

And what wise words Socrates has spoken on his behalf :)

Socrates was one of those wise men who lead his followers to find the answers within themselves.

Merrick

Well, I understood what you meant. I was simply trying to apply what I was thinking to what you said. :D And I agree with you...I think it is human nature to WANT to be right, not necessarily to be right.

I'm just trying to be more conscious of these things now considering I know I've belittled people in the past with my refute of their beliefs.

If it's a ritual that seems to be causing harm to that person, yes I would definitely advise them to stop for their own safety or the safety of others. I would not say, "This ritual is BS and you're wasting your time. Instead you should do it my way..." That would be imposing my beliefs, not concern for wellbeing through belief, but beliefs simply based on personal experience because I had never been able to get that ritual to work for me or never tried or simply didn't believe, etc.

That's why I'm saying spreading the word of Christianity by true Christians is noble because to them it's for greater good. I understand that and I'll no longer say, well I don't believe what you believe so it's obviously stupid. You know what I mean? Instead understand that they're trying to be helpful and accept that they are doing what they feel is right and hope that they will respect me enough not to tell me I'm evil. LOL. Or stupid.

GOSH! It's so hard to put it all in here to where I am expressing myself in a comprehendable manner.

@pianoperformer-Beautiful! Thank you. This is exactly what I needed to see right now. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

And this too! Yes, exactly. Thank you guys for putting into words what I'm trying to say.

We need to find the answers within ourselves because we have everything we ever need to know available to us right here within. And in knowing this, we should also know that everyone else does too...so it might be nice to stop telling them they're wrong all the time! LOL!!! Right? :D

I don't think it hurts to help people out with a bit of wisdom here or there if you feel the urge, you know. You don't have to say...DO THIS OR ELSE! But I think it's our responsibility to lend a hand and they can take it or leave it, their choice.

So letting others find their own answers doesn't mean completely keeping to yourself and not expressing your views, it just means not to ever view yourself as more important or any more wise than the others because their truth is just as valid as yours. HELP them find THEIR truth...not YOURS. And I guess you've got a few nice conversations ahead if it turns out to be anything like yours! :p

I want to let you all know that if any of this sounds like an argument, I DO NOT MEAN IT THAT WAY! I'm trying to work these thoughts out and I needed help. And you all are really, REALLY helping. So thank you!

I also want to post again that I am TOTALLY GUILTY of trying to impose my beliefs on others. This thought came to me overtime and I'm seeing the fault in what I've done. So if I've ever done it to any of you, I apologize sincerely. :o

We've had deep discussions like this before in chats. I'll say what i said then -

In the whole scheme of things, i really do know nothing really.

But we do our best - i think.

:) Thank you, Jeremy. Yes, we do our best and that's what matters. And thanks to you I do much better than I would alone. LOL.

You know things through experience. If you've experienced something, it is true for you. And other people have a whole different range of experiences, so other things will be right or true for them. But, that being said, the only truth is infinite love. Everything else is an illusion. That is probably the most empowering way to look at this. At least for me. It may not work for others, but realizing that God, or Source, or whatever is the only truth and that this world is a dream or an illusion, and that we can change it any time we want.

The beauty of life is that you can choose to believe whatever you want. It takes a pretty big person to say they know nothing, but you have to start realizing what is true for you and go from there. Try to choose empowering beliefs and see where they take you. The purpose of life is to enjoy it. So, try to start really enjoying your path of personal growth.