I just want to know how everybody knows everything.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

I want to know how you KNOW. How do you know? And how do you know well enough to tell anyone else that they're conflicting views are wrong?

In a very real sense, there is nothing that is truly right and nothing that is truly wrong, because every experience imaginable exists for the purpose of illumination. When two people argue, all statements made by both sides are equally right, including the statements they may say that indicate the other person is wrong. All statements are validated by experience, someone's experience, and there aren't any experiences which are 'better' than others.

You are right to claim that none of these people really know anything, and yet they are still right to claim that they do.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by VinceG

In a very real sense, there is nothing that is truly right and nothing that is truly wrong, because every experience imaginable exists for the purpose of illumination. When two people argue, all statements made by both sides are equally right, including the statements they may say that indicate the other person is wrong. All statements are validated by experience, someone's experience, and there aren't any experiences which are 'better' than others.

You are right to claim that none of these people really know anything, and yet they are still right to claim that they do.

This is a good verbalization of what I'm trying to say. Thank you!

Although I am going to say that I will not claim that I think that none of these people really know anything because then I would be saying that I KNOW they know nothing, and that I do not know. I know I really know nothing; however, there may very well be a person out there who does know something. I'm not sure who it is though, since everybody seems to know everything and so much of it is conflicting. LOL. Make sense?

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

I'm not sure who it is though, since everybody seems to know everything and so much of it is conflicting. LOL. Make sense?

It need not be so conflicting. The conflict arises out of the need to know. If the need to know is not present, than it is easy to see that one person arguing from experience against one person arguing from desire is going to go nowhere because they're not on the same page. But if you're focused on which side is 'right', then you're buying into the conflict itself, and teasing out which one is right means getting involved in their conflict. You might not be raising your voice, but you're involved all the same.

There really is no conflict, between anyone. When people fight, they are sharing, the same way that we are sharing right now. They just happen to be sharing in a loud and obnoxious manner.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by VinceG

It need not be so conflicting. The conflict arises out of the need to know. If the need to know is not present, than it is easy to see that one person arguing from experience against one person arguing from desire is going to go nowhere because they're not on the same page. But if you're focused on which side is 'right', then you're buying into the conflict itself, and teasing out which one is right means getting involved in their conflict. You might not be raising your voice, but you're involved all the same.

There really is no conflict, between anyone. When people fight, they are sharing, the same way that we are sharing right now. They just happen to be sharing in a loud and obnoxious manner.

That's a really good way to look at it. Thanks Vince!

[VinceG]

Sure thing!

[angel A]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

LOL! I'm sorry, but I'm reading through a lot of posts and there seems to be so much knowledge out there that people look at as concrete and share as fact. A lot of it is based on faith, personal experience, books they've read, mentor views.

I want to know how you KNOW. How do you know? And how do you know well enough to tell anyone else that they're conflicting views are wrong?

I'm here to proclaim right now that I know absolutely nothing and it is perhaps the most uplifting position I've ever been in. I've argued my views on things, theories, thought about my own personal spiritual and paranormal experiences, but when I'm asked for proof, I have none. None that can transfer to anyone else. Everyone's seem to vary so much.

So there we are. How do I know what I believe, feel, see, hear, think is true? I don't. I feel it is true, but I know nothing.

How do you know? What makes it ok for any of us to pick apart and try to disprove others' beliefs. I've done it recently on the subject of solipsism, afterwhich I gave myself time to think about my actions and how belittling, invalidating they could have been to that individual and I felt horrible. <----that I do know.

There is not much point in this thread or this post. I'm not even sure what section to put it in. But regardless of my judgement of other peoples' experiences, my feelings on their beliefs, etc., how do I decide and debate whether the other person is wrong if I actually know nothing at all? I simply cannot and I'm now starting to believe that I should not. EVER. It's not my place to impose my beliefs on others. Maybe share things and give them something to think about if I feel it could help, but never tell them they're wrong. Because quite frankly I don't know what's right.

Does that make any sense? Any relation out there to these thoughts?

I know where you are coming from!

We are all learning, just at different paces,so none of us no nothing untill our education is finished!,( which is not until we leave the Earth plane,or not lol, in my oppinion) We can share, what we have learned so far, with others but we have no way of knowing if, what we have learned is right or right for everyone else,we just feel it's right for us as an individual.

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

It takes a pretty big person to say they know nothing...

I'd say that it depends on the inner attitude because I've seen this used as a cliché.

Things are true at some levels, while on other levels they do not apply.

Also from the practical point of view does it make any sense to say: "I don't know whether 1 + 1 = 2 is a true equation? Obviously, the way this world, we are living in works, it is valid. What sense would it make to say: "I don't know."?

Or if your spouse asks you whether you have cheated on her and you haven't (well, at least you're not aware of it), what sense would it make to say: "I don't know." ? And if she became sad what good would it do telling her: "I know that I know absolutely nothing."?

Or if I'm not limited by my physical senses in my perception and can visually perceive a ghost making a noise in my room and someone asks me: "Who was making that noise?" What sense would it make to say: "I don't know."? For me the ghost is as real as the person asking. And although all of us - the ghost, the person asking and myself may be but illusions on a certain level, on this level of existence at this very moment (sure, time does not exist ) I deem it practical to say that it was a ghost. Why should I say: "I don't know."? And everyone who knows better is free to say that it is a bullock. For me it is true and I don't see a reason why I should hide with it somewhere.

And if a Nazi says that the Jews and the Gypses and other races are inferior people or that they are not people at all - like someone told me about the blacks while I was living in South Africa - is it right to let them put those people in the concentration camps and start murdering them? Sure this may sound absurd but is it not what the philosophy of: "I know that I know absolutely nothing" implies? "Well, the Nazis may just be right. I don't know. Why should I argue with them and interfere? Let them do what they believe is right. There is no right or wrong."

A man once came to J. Krishnamurti: "Sir, we postulate that there is only Brahman who creates the world and the illusion of it, and the Atman which is in every human being - is of that Brahman. Man has to awaken from this everyday consciousness of plurality and the manifest world, much as he would awaken from a dream..!"

J. Krishnamurti's reply was quite long but the point he made here was: "... the world is not an illusion but a terrible reality which man, in his relationship with his fellow man, has constructed. It is this which has to be understood and not your theories of Vedanta..."

I resonate with these words. People often tend to talk about the illusory nature of this world and of other things without having had a direct experience. And when one has had such an experience to share some of them tend to play it down proudly saying that they know better because they know that they know absolutely nothing. I like Krisnamurti's practical approach: See everything with fresh eyes from moment to moment. Then you may see the "what is". This is what the Buddha taught and many others.

Sometimes it is important to be able to say: "I don't know." But sometimes it is just a hiding away from accepting responsibility.

Merrick

[Richful]

One of my favourite examples of humbly expressing ignorance and inexperience comes from Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein. The protagonist Valentine Michael Smith is a human raised amongst Martians and when expressing his inexperience and ignorance to those he interacts with he simply says "I am an Egg."
Can you Grok it?

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by Richful

Can you Grok it?

I find I'm having problems to understand the English slang, as a non-native speaker. What does "Grok" mean? The other day someone added to my reputation: "Random rep luv." I understand that "luv" is a familiar way of addressing someone. "Rep" could stand for reply, I suppose. And "random"? I gather that the person said that I was talking sh**t since my dictionary says that this is what "talking at random" means. Unless he or she wanted to say that they bumped into my post at random and just wanted to say hello! Either way, it's fine. I'd just like to know to mend my English . Thanks.

Merrick

[Richful]

@Merrick: Sorry friend, Grok is not an English word, it is actually from the book I mentioned. It's been adapted into English because the book became a cult classic. Essentially Grok is gaining a full understanding of something.
I mentioned it to see who might have read the book, I forget sometimes English isn't everyone's first language

[HiImJeremy]

Originally Posted by Merrick1

I find I'm having problems to understand the English slang, as a non-native speaker. What does "Grok" mean? The other day someone added to my reputation: "Random rep luv." I understand that "luv" is a familiar way of addressing someone. "Rep" could stand for reply, I suppose. And "random"? I gather that the person said that I was talking sh**t since my dictionary says that this is what "talking at random" means. Unless he or she wanted to say that they bumped into my post at random and just wanted to say hello! Either way, it's fine. I'd just like to know to mend my English . Thanks.

Merrick

Ahaha! I got the same thing!

Random in this case means ' out of no where, no particular reason'

Rep stands for reputation - it's the way the people on the forums normally express there like for your posts, or there agreement with your point of view.

Luv - slang for 'love'

So really they meant - They gave your reputation for no particular reason other then perhaps the love to give you rep.

Make better sense?

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by Richful

@Merrick: Sorry friend, Grok is not an English word, it is actually from the book I mentioned. It's been adapted into English because the book became a cult classic. Essentially Grok is gaining a full understanding of something.
I mentioned it to see who might have read the book, I forget sometimes English isn't everyone's first language

Oh, thanks Richful . I must read this book sometime.

Merrick

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

Ahaha! I got the same thing!

Random in this case means ' out of no where, no no particular reason'

Rep stands for reputation - it's the way the people on the forums normally express there like for your posts, or there agreement with your point of view.

Luv - slag for 'love'

So really they meant - They gave your reputation for no particular reason other then perhaps the love to give you rep.

Make better sense?

Oh yes, thanks Jeremy

Merrick

[Federer]

Momo3bur, that's very nice question and you nudged me.

I know through my beliefs, views, flashes of images and feelings. That's all and more of it my knowledge,too.

Most biggest thing is through faith i have come here.

[desertrat]

Most of what I know I got from books. I took a yoga class years ago. I have used the self hypnosis tapes and mp3s , for past life regression , a.p. ect. I can not a.p. yet , on the regression tapes Dick Sutphen says to "make it up you will makeing up real lives " so who knows if it is real. desert rat

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by angel A

I know where you are coming from!

We are all learning, just at different paces,so none of us no nothing untill our education is finished!,( which is not until we leave the Earth plane,or not lol, in my oppinion) We can share, what we have learned so far, with others but we have no way of knowing if, what we have learned is right or right for everyone else,we just feel it's right for us as an individual.

Thank you! I love this.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by Merrick1

I'd say that it depends on the inner attitude because I've seen this used as a cliché.

Things are true at some levels, while on other levels they do not apply.

Also from the practical point of view does it make any sense to say: "I don't know whether 1 + 1 = 2 is a true equation? Obviously, the way this world, we are living in works, it is valid. What sense would it make to say: "I don't know."?

Or if your spouse asks you whether you have cheated on her and you haven't (well, at least you're not aware of it), what sense would it make to say: "I don't know." ? And if she became sad what good would it do telling her: "I know that I know absolutely nothing."?

Or if I'm not limited by my physical senses in my perception and can visually perceive a ghost making a noise in my room and someone asks me: "Who was making that noise?" What sense would it make to say: "I don't know."? For me the ghost is as real as the person asking. And although all of us - the ghost, the person asking and myself may be but illusions on a certain level, on this level of existence at this very moment (sure, time does not exist ) I deem it practical to say that it was a ghost. Why should I say: "I don't know."? And everyone who knows better is free to say that it is a bullock. For me it is true and I don't see a reason why I should hide with it somewhere.

And if a Nazi says that the Jews and the Gypses and other races are inferior people or that they are not people at all - like someone told me about the blacks while I was living in South Africa - is it right to let them put those people in the concentration camps and start murdering them? Sure this may sound absurd but is it not what the philosophy of: "I know that I know absolutely nothing" implies? "Well, the Nazis may just be right. I don't know. Why should I argue with them and interfere? Let them do what they believe is right. There is no right or wrong."

A man once came to J. Krishnamurti: "Sir, we postulate that there is only Brahman who creates the world and the illusion of it, and the Atman which is in every human being - is of that Brahman. Man has to awaken from this everyday consciousness of plurality and the manifest world, much as he would awaken from a dream..!"

J. Krishnamurti's reply was quite long but the point he made here was: "... the world is not an illusion but a terrible reality which man, in his relationship with his fellow man, has constructed. It is this which has to be understood and not your theories of Vedanta..."

I resonate with these words. People often tend to talk about the illusory nature of this world and of other things without having had a direct experience. And when one has had such an experience to share some of them tend to play it down proudly saying that they know better because they know that they know absolutely nothing. I like Krisnamurti's practical approach: See everything with fresh eyes from moment to moment. Then you may see the "what is". This is what the Buddha taught and many others.

Sometimes it is important to be able to say: "I don't know." But sometimes it is just a hiding away from accepting responsibility.

Merrick

Thanks for this, Merrick. I in no way meant to try to make myself look "big" by sharing these thoughts.

Obviously I do know that on a physical level there are things that are "known." I know 1+1 is 2. LOL. I know how to operate a vehicle. I know how to tie my shoes. I know how to change the oil on my truck and clean the battery cables. I know how to wash dishes. I know *at least I think I know* how to spell supercalifragilisticexpialadocious.

When I say I know nothing, I mean I know nothing for sure about spirituality, religion, paranormal, magick, all of these things we like to debate about in the paranormal and spiritual areas of our life. I believe things based on my personal experiences. And I often wonder when people argue over things like The Permission Issue, for example, how they know what is right or wrong.

How do we know it's wrong to send a healing without permission? How do we know higher self accepts or doesn't accept depending on your needs? How do we know that karma does or does not exist? For example, with the Karma matter applied to reincarnation, how do we know it exists if we can't remember our past lives? We can't know for sure, we can just believe if we want. Or we don't believe. Either way, it doesn't matter because there is an answer and that answer will be the answer no matter what we believe. Eventually we'll find out what it is. Until then, I think I'm just going to leave it alone and know that I have no control over it regardless of my beliefs, so there is no point getting myself into a tizzy over it. It just adds unnecessary drama into my life. LOL.

Of course, I don't particularly enjoy conflict. I suppose it adds spice into the lives of people who enjoy debate and there is nothing wrong with that at all. I will continue to share my beliefs, but this is a personal vow not to tell someone else they are WRONG. Simply because I do not know they are wrong and it's egotistical to think they are because they are not the same as mine.

I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over again and I wish I could accurately vocalize what I'm trying to express. I think you guys understand, though. I don't mean to say I know nothing in order to avoid responsibility in anyway. I have no responsibility to correct anyone in their spiritual beliefs or personal experience because that's impossible to do.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by Richful

One of my favourite examples of humbly expressing ignorance and inexperience comes from Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein. The protagonist Valentine Michael Smith is a human raised amongst Martians and when expressing his inexperience and ignorance to those he interacts with he simply says "I am an Egg."
Can you Grok it?

LOL! Thank you! That's cute. I'll have to look for that.

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by Federer

Momo3bur, that's very nice question and you nudged me.

I know through my beliefs, views, flashes of images and feelings. That's all and more of it my knowledge,too.

Most biggest thing is through faith i have come here.

Yes, it is all your knowledge and then your faith that is right for you, *Fed* (here that would mean you were some sort of FBI crazy ninja with an awesome suit and really sweet shades ). That's how I am trying to think of my own experiences. They are mine and they are perfectly right for me, giving me the experiences and answers I need in order to move forward in my life.

If someone has different experiences, it is the same for them. So I really have no right to tell them they are wrong or question them just because I disagree. If I choose to smudge my home to get rid of negative energies and it works for me, then so be it. But say they chose to recite passages from the Bible to do the same and they post it, then they are right as well because it's working for them.

Could work for me, too! LOL. I don't know.

We know what is right for each of us individually and for all we know it might have never been either one of those actions that made us feel as if we lightened the old nasty energies from our homes. Maybe, just maybe, it was actually just willing it to leave and filling it full of fresh, clean positive feelings.

We just can't possibly know all the answers, only the individual answers which even tend to change and shift overtime, but like Jeremy said, we do our best. And that's what counts.

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

Obviously I do know that on a physical level there are things that are "known." I know 1+1 is 2. LOL. I know how to operate a vehicle. I know how to tie my shoes. I know how to change the oil on my truck and clean the battery cables. I know how to wash dishes. I know *at least I think I know* how to spell supercalifragilisticexpialadocious.

When I say I know nothing, I mean I know nothing for sure about spirituality, religion, paranormal, magick, all of these things we like to debate about in the paranormal and spiritual areas of our life. I believe things based on my personal experiences. And I often wonder when people argue over things like The Permission Issue, for example, how they know what is right or wrong.

How do we know it's wrong to send a healing without permission? How do we know higher self accepts or doesn't accept depending on your needs? How do we know that karma does or does not exist? For example, with the Karma matter applied to reincarnation, how do we know it exists if we can't remember our past lives? We can't know for sure, we can just believe if we want. Or we don't believe.

So, momo3bur, you're saying that if I tell you that 1+1=3 you can prove me wrong. Or if I misspell a word or wire a car battery in the wrong way. In other words something that we all can perceive through our physical senses or derive from logical thinking we can say we know. Anything else we can't know? We can only believe? Well, this may be true for you but definitely not for me and for many other people. All knowledge is available to us if we are only open to it. There are countless testimonials of people who have direct experience but if we choose to ignore and disregard them, then we can hardly learn anything from them.

Originally Posted by momo3bur

... with the Karma matter applied to reincarnation, how do we know it exists if we can't remember our past lives? We can't know for sure, we can just believe if we want. Or we don't believe.

Who is it "we" ? There are many people who can remember past lives or who can tune into them. I have been working with such people for many years.

Also, I could give you some real life examples if I felt any openness from your side. But you ask a question: "How can we know...?" and immediately answer it yourself: "We can't know. We can only believe if we want to." There is a story of a student who came to a teacher. And after a while the teacher poured water into a cup up to the brim. And he said to the student: "I cannot teach you anything. Your mind is like this cup."

Merrick

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by Merrick1

So, momo3bur, you're saying that if I tell you that 1+1=3 you can prove me wrong. Or if I misspell a word or wire a car battery in the wrong way. In other words something that we all can perceive through our physical senses or derive from logical thinking we can say we know. Anything else we can't know? We can only believe? Well, this may be true for you but definitely not for me and for many other people. All knowledge is available to us if we are only open to it. There are countless testimonials of people who have direct experience but if we choose to ignore and disregard them, then we can hardly learn anything from them.



Who is it "we" ? There are many people who can remember past lives or who can tune into them. I have been working with such people for many years.

Also, I could give you some real life examples if I felt any openness from your side. But you ask a question: "How can we know...?" and immediately answer it yourself: "We can't know. We can only believe if we want to." There is a story of a student who came to a teacher. And after a while the teacher poured water into a cup up to the brim. And he said to the student: "I cannot teach you anything. Your mind is like this cup."

Merrick

Merrick,

Ok, I'm not sure I'm explaining myself accurately here so that you see my point. I understand the things you're posting and completely open to them.

Yes, I am one of those people who remember bits of my past lives. I am. That is what I believe. I shared this with my husband. He says, no way. You were dreaming. There are no such things as past lives.

I say, yes there are! I remember these things, I DREAM of them, I feel them, etc.

So then we start in on a huge argument revolving around past lives, AP, spirits, etc., all of the things I believe in and he does not.

So finally I say, HOW DO YOU KNOW!!!!? You have never experienced these things, so to you they are not real. How do you know that you have just not had your chance to see yet or that you have just closed yourself off?

I'm fairly angry at this point because he's pretty much insulting me, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm unable to share things with him.

Then he says, HOW DO YOU KNOW!!? How do you know that your past lives that you remember are not just dreams. How do you know that the energy you feel is not some kind of reaction of your nervous system causing you to tingle and get all the weird things you get. How do you know that the images you see are not just some crazy imagination. And how do you know that the voices you hear are not schizophrenia sneaking up on you.

I had no answer. If I were asked to prove these things, I cannot. I KNOW what I feel and experience is real to me. What he feels and experiences is real to him.

Neither one of us knows the truth 100% enough to prove our point, so what's the point of arguing over it? What I'm saying, is (for me) there isn't one.

At the same time, I feel like if would look at it the same way and ask himself, before he calls me insane and tells me I'm going to lose it eventually, HOW DO I KNOW? If he would ask himself how he knows completely that he is right he would also find there is no way to answer that question. Then maybe he would be open enough to realize there is the possibility that there are things outside of himself that he doesn't understand and there could be truth to what I'm saying.

Or it could be hallucinations. Who knows. To me it feels real and I feel with all my heart that it is, but I have no way to prove it.

So my point in posting this, quite frankly, is that maybe before we attack one another about our beliefs and experiences with the idea in mind that we are completely right and they are completely wrong, that we ask ourself HOW DO I KNOW and how can I prove this. For most, or at least for me, the proof lies in personal experiences that I can't transfer over to that person, so instead maybe I should share with them my experience and my reason for believing what I believe but also listen to them and try to understand why it is they believe what they believe instead of basically telling them they are wrong because I don't agree with them.

I promise you I am open to learning and listening to your experiences, my problem here is that I don't think we're understanding one another. I think this lies on my end because I'm not expressing myself very well.

[momo3bur]

So, momo3bur, you're saying that if I tell you that 1+1=3 you can prove me wrong. Or if I misspell a word or wire a car battery in the wrong way. In other words something that we all can perceive through our physical senses or derive from logical thinking we can say we know. Anything else we can't know? We can only believe? Well, this may be true for you but definitely not for me and for many other people. All knowledge is available to us if we are only open to it. There are countless testimonials of people who have direct experience but if we choose to ignore and disregard them, then we can hardly learn anything from them.

Ok, we can gain access to that knowledge and believe it as truth because for us it is true. And it maybe true for others and they just not know it. But what's the point of shoving it in their faces if we can't prove it unless we're doing it to help them.

I ask questions and open myself up to knowledge all the time. I use that to access information that I normally physically would not. I do not choose to disregard or ignore others' experiences. I have done that before, but it is not something I always do and I try to catch myself when I realize I'm doing it.

This has nothing to do with what I was trying to point out previously.

My point is that I will listen to others' experiences now and be open to them even if they are completely opposite of mine and disregard my beliefs because for them that is truth.

What I believe is my truth.

And then there is an ultimate truth. So if I believe my truth is THE truth, it won't matter what they believe in the end so I might as well allow them to be comfortable and live as they want without trying to belittle or prove them wrong. I can share my beliefs and experiences and hope they listen to them, but I don't have to say, NO YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG BECAUSE I SAW THIS or I HEAR THIS. They'll just tell me I'm nuts. LOL. They might tell me that whether I say they're wrong or not. But I promise telling them they're completely wrong and idiotic for believing what they believe is not going to get my message across any easier. It's just going to make them angry and feel insulted and make me look like a jerk to them.

I SEE THAT on these forums all the time. I saw in a dream thread where a person was asking questions about a dream she had and helping cross over to the otherside, and then a person comes on and tells her she has a vivid imagination and there is no crossing over, we just die. TRUST HIM.

WHY trust him? LOL. There no reason to. But I can't prove he's wrong. So instead, I'd like to know WHY we should trust him. There's still no answer. When he has none, that still leaves the option of being allowed to cross spiritually open. If he asks me WHY I believe the opposite of him, all I can do is share my personal experience and hope he listens. But to him that's just a vivid imagination. There's no PROOF. So I have no right to tell him he's completely wrong. I can just share and hope that one day he has the pleasure of experience what I've experienced and then understand where I'm coming from.

Does that make sense?

I am aware that people access knowledge and are able to see truth. I'm sure there are people who have the real thing there in their noggin and are sharing it to help people. I'm not saying those people don't exist. What I'm saying is FOR these people. No matter who they are, there will be that person there to argue and tell them they are stupid or illogical or whatever. So for those people who always want to argue and always think they are right above all else, ask yourself, "HOW do you know?"

I have this problem sometimes with my beliefs. That is why I posted this. I am guilty for thinking some other peoples' beliefs were impossible, blah blah blah. So I had to ask myself How I Knew that person is completely wrong. I don't. So, for my own personal growth, I should listen instead of immediately pushing that possibility out of my mind.

[Merrick1]

Thanks momo3bur, now I Grok it as Richful says. It's morning here, I must work now but I will write more in the evening.

Merrick

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

Does that make any sense? Any relation out there to these thoughts?

Yep, and to cope I've adopted the notion of "useful truths" - truths that are equally 'real' but appear contradictory only because they are of use to different people at different points in their paths. It's a bit like arguing which flavor of ice cream is best...

[Federer]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

Yes, it is all your knowledge and then your faith that is right for you, *Fed* (here that would mean you were some sort of FBI crazy ninja with an awesome suit and really sweet shades ). That's how I am trying to think of my own experiences. They are mine and they are perfectly right for me, giving me the experiences and answers I need in order to move forward in my life.

If someone has different experiences, it is the same for them. So I really have no right to tell them they are wrong or question them just because I disagree. If I choose to smudge my home to get rid of negative energies and it works for me, then so be it. But say they chose to recite passages from the Bible to do the same and they post it, then they are right as well because it's working for them.

Could work for me, too! LOL. I don't know.

We know what is right for each of us individually and for all we know it might have never been either one of those actions that made us feel as if we lightened the old nasty energies from our homes. Maybe, just maybe, it was actually just willing it to leave and filling it full of fresh, clean positive feelings.

We just can't possibly know all the answers, only the individual answers which even tend to change and shift overtime, but like Jeremy said, we do our best. And that's what counts.

hehehe I am Ninja Officer. So great to know this.

Thank you. Sometimes we really need to let go the whole desire to know answers. Really. Just become free from it and those answers do come. I resonate with you and understand. You are trying to keep yourself refreshed and this will add to your longevity.

You will enjoy many things later on, you will find many techniques which has more variety. Like a tree has many branches.

Same i do, i try to keep my place protected and free from negative things. It is tough to do.

I agree with jeremy our best efforts are best.

Thank you and i hope you keep sharing such great questions, topics rolling on. I enjoy them and learn.

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by momo3bur

I am aware that people access knowledge and are able to see truth. I'm sure there are people who have the real thing there in their noggin and are sharing it to help people. I'm not saying those people don't exist. What I'm saying is FOR these people. No matter who they are, there will be that person there to argue and tell them they are stupid or illogical or whatever. So for those people who always want to argue and always think they are right above all else, ask yourself, "HOW do you know?".

To answer this question is not easy. One's relationship with God is very private. How to describe and share it? And as you can see, even the word God may be attacked easily if someone wants to. And if I say I've always known somehow I may be found guilty of haughtiness. But I have. So, I suppose I should share regardless, otherwise this conversation wouldn't be possible at all.

Since the early 1990s I have been involved with the paranormal and gathered so many experiences that they would fill a thick book or rather several books. I'll briefly mention some of them where some proof of things, disregarded or considered pathological by science and medicine, is obvious – to me, of course, .

There was a time in my life in Johannesburg, South Africa, when I ended up jobless and without money. I was too proud to ask someone for help but a Malawian guy offered me to stay with his wife and their two boys in a garage of a private house where they were living because the rent there was all they could afford. This is what a large chain CNA was paying their cashiers (wife, he only had some odd jobs). And later on a friend, whom I eventually asked for help, told me that a voice in his head had said to him: "They've got him in a garage. Take him out." It wasn't surprising that he had heard a voice. He heard voices all the time, telling him which horse was going to win (and sometimes he did make quite good money getting tips this way ) and sometimes just singing "la la la." But it was really touching that it also cared about me.

Oh yes, and prior to that I was staying in a house with a Russian family. They had sold their flat in Moscow and wanted to live in South Africa. But they had been conned and lost nearly all their money. Otherwise they were highly intelligent people and the man extraordinarily. Both were geologists and I could talk admirably for a long time about each of them. But what I want to share here is that the lady was also a witch, in the good sense of the word. A powerful psychic healer. Once we were in a bookshop together and there was this book by Barbara Ann Brennan Hands of Light. And the lady told me: "I can see this while healing", pointing to the book's front cover where there is the healing light between the palms of the hands.

And the owner of the house had a friend in Pretoria who was a priest and him and the Russian couple became friends. And once he arrived and complained about some heaviness he could feel on his shoulder and of some other unpleasant symptoms which I don't remember. And the lady removed it. She told me afterwards that it had been an entity which are common at cemeteries. The priest was well after that.

Well, I could carry on and on until the time where I myself, enriched by some 12 years of experience (about 18 years now) started helping people with this kind of stuff. Removing spirit attachments, entities... Often curing almost instantly (within a few hours) people who would have been labelled psychotic, schizophrenic, hallucinating, deluded... had they entrusted themselves to the care of a psychiatrist. And also some who had done so and weren't helped. Should I bother if someone tells me I am mad when I say that there are spirit attachments, that there are malevolent entities? My spiritual teacher - who at his age of 75 years, when many others are senile, still teaches university students chemistry, physics, math, biology... can see them and isn't ashamed to say that publicly.

Once we healed a young lady. She said that she wanted to give love to people but something was preventing her, ruining her relationships with others. As if there were a dark shield in front of her chest. Well, there was. After having healed the karmic attachment remotely, she visited us, thankful, and shared what had happened: her mother-in-law phoned her all of a sudden and said some warm, loving words to her. Something she would have never imagined possible before.

My ex-colleague, with whom I had developed the main therapy process I've been using since, is a nursery school teacher, knowing nothing about electronics. Her husband works as a train driver. He is also an electrician but he can do almost anything with his hands, he is an incredible artisan. And sometimes he takes her for a short ride. Once a colleague phoned him that his locomotive had stopped and wouldn't start. And whether he could think of a possible fault. And suddenly his wife said shyly: "Is there any K106, K107, K116...?" The pure guy nearly fell off the cabin. His absolutely ignorant wife as far as electronics is concerned named 8 relays where 2 faults in the electronics of his colleague's locomotive were. Well, needless to say that the guy fixed the problem, having this information. Later the husband told us that 80% of his colleagues wouldn't have known that there were such relays in the system.

At the end of each therapy we used to cleanse the client's home remotely of negative energies. And she could see where a problem was. Once she told a guy about a picture hanging on the wall which he should get rid of. There were more pictures there. When he burnt the picture she had advised him to, he reported that the energy in the flat improved considerably.

Should I say such a person is hallucinating or that it is just some brain chemistry when she is talking with angels, Lord Jesus and other high beings, or when she is describing the past lifes of our clients? Especially when the people become well after our karmic healing ?

And the same with my girlfriend Lenka with whom I have been working for the past 3 years. Soon after I met Lenka we did a therapy for her with my ex-colleague. About a year later Lenka mentioned that she had seen and felt everything the lady was describing then. And I asked why she didnt say anything. She replied: "Well, I thought it was normal. That everyone had this ability."

Originally Posted by momo3bur

"HOW do you know?".

I don't know. I have always known, somehow. All these and many, many more other experiences have just been confirming to me all along what I feel I have always known. But there are countless testimonials of many other people out there. And yet it means nothing to the sceptics. There will always be people who, no matter what one shares, will find some "scientific" explanation and say that all this is just a lot of nonsense.

Merrick

[Christa]

Thanks for starting this thread, Momo! You opened debate and got us thinking.

I still don't KNOW. It is still OK and delicious! I know how to drive my car, and add my 1s and 2s and tie my shoes, that type of thing, but that's not the really what we're talking about here, is it? The knowing I don't have embraces Everything. Like the Zen buddhist who asked for a hamburger with Everything on it. If you consider it one way, you wonder if his mouth was big enough. Looking at it the other way, I sense he got what he asked for. The universe is in a grain of sand...and I don't know how it works. Or why it works. Even if it works, or should work - I do not know and it is fine, I get my hamburger anyway and it's absolutely SUMPtuous!!

I am aware of anyone's right to disagree with me as we grapple with Everything. It's everone's hamburger, yeah? So if anyone chooses to know something I don't, that's OK. At the moment the world is off the hook - I don't know anything so I'm likely to agree with Everybody! Haha, as long you don't spoil my meal, man. That's impolite and causes famine really. I'm going to call Federer in such a case - hey dude, you 're the first and only real Ninja-something I ever encountered! Do you really live in Hollywood? Do you know Chuck Norris? Hey, I'm not dissing you, I'm actually really impressed... And I know NOTHING about Ninjas!

[momo3bur]

Originally Posted by Merrick1

To answer this question is not easy. One's relationship with God is very private. How to describe and share it? And as you can see, even the word God may be attacked easily if someone wants to. And if I say I've always known somehow I may be found guilty of haughtiness. But I have. So, I suppose I should share regardless, otherwise this conversation wouldn't be possible at all.

Since the early 1990s I have been involved with the paranormal and gathered so many experiences that they would fill a thick book or rather several books. I'll briefly mention some of them where some proof of things, disregarded or considered pathological by science and medicine, is obvious – to me, of course, .

There was a time in my life in Johannesburg, South Africa, when I ended up jobless and without money. I was too proud to ask someone for help but a Malawian guy offered me to stay with his wife and their two boys in a garage of a private house where they were living because the rent there was all they could afford. This is what a large chain CNA was paying their cashiers (wife, he only had some odd jobs). And later on a friend, whom I eventually asked for help, told me that a voice in his head had said to him: "They've got him in a garage. Take him out." It wasn't surprising that he had heard a voice. He heard voices all the time, telling him which horse was going to win (and sometimes he did make quite good money getting tips this way ) and sometimes just singing "la la la." But it was really touching that it also cared about me.

Oh yes, and prior to that I was staying in a house with a Russian family. They had sold their flat in Moscow and wanted to live in South Africa. But they had been conned and lost nearly all their money. Otherwise they were highly intelligent people and the man extraordinarily. Both were geologists and I could talk admirably for a long time about each of them. But what I want to share here is that the lady was also a witch, in the good sense of the word. A powerful psychic healer. Once we were in a bookshop together and there was this book by Barbara Ann Brennan Hands of Light. And the lady told me: "I can see this while healing", pointing to the book's front cover where there is the healing light between the palms of the hands.

And the owner of the house had a friend in Pretoria who was a priest and him and the Russian couple became friends. And once he arrived and complained about some heaviness he could feel on his shoulder and of some other unpleasant symptoms which I don't remember. And the lady removed it. She told me afterwards that it had been an entity which are common at cemeteries. The priest was well after that.

Well, I could carry on and on until the time where I myself, enriched by some 12 years of experience (about 18 years now) started helping people with this kind of stuff. Removing spirit attachments, entities... Often curing almost instantly (within a few hours) people who would have been labelled psychotic, schizophrenic, hallucinating, deluded... had they entrusted themselves to the care of a psychiatrist. And also some who had done so and weren't helped. Should I bother if someone tells me I am mad when I say that there are spirit attachments, that there are malevolent entities? My spiritual teacher - who at his age of 75 years, when many others are senile, still teaches university students chemistry, physics, math, biology... can see them and isn't ashamed to say that publicly.

Once we healed a young lady. She said that she wanted to give love to people but something was preventing her, ruining her relationships with others. As if there were a dark shield in front of her chest. Well, there was. After having healed the karmic attachment remotely, she visited us, thankful, and shared what had happened: her mother-in-law phoned her all of a sudden and said some warm, loving words to her. Something she would have never imagined possible before.

My ex-colleague, with whom I had developed the main therapy process I've been using since, is a nursery school teacher, knowing nothing about electronics. Her husband works as a train driver. He is also an electrician but he can do almost anything with his hands, he is an incredible artisan. And sometimes he takes her for a short ride. Once a colleague phoned him that his locomotive had stopped and wouldn't start. And whether he could think of a possible fault. And suddenly his wife said shyly: "Is there any K106, K107, K116...?" The pure guy nearly fell off the cabin. His absolutely ignorant wife as far as electronics is concerned named 8 relays where 2 faults in the electronics of his colleague's locomotive were. Well, needless to say that the guy fixed the problem, having this information. Later the husband told us that 80% of his colleagues wouldn't have known that there were such relays in the system.

At the end of each therapy we used to cleanse the client's home remotely of negative energies. And she could see where a problem was. Once she told a guy about a picture hanging on the wall which he should get rid of. There were more pictures there. When he burnt the picture she had advised him to, he reported that the energy in the flat improved considerably.

Should I say such a person is hallucinating or that it is just some brain chemistry when she is talking with angels, Lord Jesus and other high beings, or when she is describing the past lifes of our clients? Especially when the people become well after our karmic healing ?

And the same with my girlfriend Lenka with whom I have been working for the past 3 years. Soon after I met Lenka we did a therapy for her with my ex-colleague. About a year later Lenka mentioned that she had seen and felt everything the lady was describing then. And I asked why she didnt say anything. She replied: "Well, I thought it was normal. That everyone had this ability."



I don't know. I have always known, somehow. All these and many, many more other experiences have just been confirming to me all along what I feel I have always known. But there are countless testimonials of many other people out there. And yet it means nothing to the sceptics. There will always be people who, no matter what one shares, will find some "scientific" explanation and say that all this is just a lot of nonsense.

Merrick

These sound like WONDERFUL experiences! It just amazing of you to use them to help others. Thank you so much for sharing them with me, as I love hearing other peoples' spiritual and paranormal experiences because they are validating and very encouraging. I also hear voices like your friend. They seemed to go away for a while in my early twenties but in the last couple of years have come back with a BANG. I spent some months thinking I might actually be insane. LOL. So then I started meditating for relaxation and the intensity of these things went through the roof, along with visions, vibrations, the AP starting consciously, and my vivid dreams came back full throttle. So I guess, the things that have seemed to "follow" me around during my life are exactly what brought me to this forum in hopes of meeting people like you. And luckily, I HAVE! Thank you!

I suppose catching myself getting defensive when sharing these experiences is what triggered the thought process that created this thread. Well, that and reading other threads where even people within the spiritual and paranormal awareness community are arguing about effectiveness of methods and truth behind theories.

On the subject of solipsism, I got a bit insulted because just the thought of someone viewing me as text on a screen after all of the things I have been through in my life made me feel small and insignificant. To think that someone could believe that I was nothing but an illusion that they created really bothered me. So I got a bit smart-assed with that person.

Later I got to thinking, I expect people to believe my beliefs because I have experienced them. Who is to say I'm not just a figment of that person's imagination? Maybe his mind really did create my entire existence so that he could be challenged in that thread and strengthen his belief system JUST a little. LOL. You know what I mean?

So I guess that was a little humbling for me. Pulled me off my high horse. And so now I'm trying to do that with everyone. So yeah maybe I think something sounds incredibly silly and stupid. Well, I'm sure the fact that I consult with voices in my head sounds pretty silly and stupid to some other people and don't appreciate being told so because I'm very set in the fact that it's real. LOL. So instead of telling that person how goofy I think they are for their practices, I'll try to accept that it very well is real for them and just because I know nothing about it doesn't mean it isn't true.

Thank you Merrick! I really appreciate your post and your stories. You sound like a very experienced and colorful individual who is awesome to share with!

[sorter]

Finally! A thread with some substance. They seem harder to find these days.

I'll refer to one of my other gems of a response:
Admit it, you really don't believe that you create your own reality...

It's all just stinkin' thinkin' as far as I'm concerned.
The reality is you repeat particular ideas to yourself,
trying to believe them, and doing that has affects.
If you like the affects, fine. If not, try a different belief.
Belief is just a tool. Truth has little to do with it. And that's the truth.

The problem people are the ones that stick to dogma and don't
care how their beliefs affect anything or anyone including themselves.

Knowing, probably more than anything else, just gets in the way of personal development.
To question is the answer.
.

[Christa]

Originally Posted by sorter

Finally! A thread that with some substance. They seem harder to find these days.

I'll refer to one of my other gems of a response:
Admit it, you really don't believe that you create your own reality...

It's all just stinkin' thinkin' as far as I'm concerned.
The reality is you repeat particular ideas to yourself,
trying to believe them, and doing that has effects.
If you like the effects, fine. If not, try a different belief.
Belief is just a tool. Truth has little to do with it. And that's the truth.

The problem people are the ones that stick to dogma and don't
care how their beliefs affect anything or anyone including themselves.

Knowing, probably more than anything else, just gets in the way of personal development.
To question is the answer.
.

Well put. Thanks.