Why can no one complete Randi's $1mil psychic challenge?

[theuprising]

If yall are psychic why can't you prove it? Just saw a TV special where people claim they are psychic but the all BOMBED the tests, and when they failed they kept saying, "oh, we're still psychic, but the test was flawed", due to no human interaction, or that they were dealing with inanimate objects, or etc. etc.

[Sbonn]

there is a sticky thread at the top of the forum that talks about this subject..

EDIT: well I thought they stickied one thread but it appears to be post that has links to several threads on the subject.

[moonrambler]

I guess we'll just eventually add this one to the sticky

I thought that was an intriguing special last night. It's interesting that the people claiming to be psychic believe in their abilities enough to be willing to go on tv, and then it looked like nobody had any psychic ability at all, including JVP.

[ButterflyWoman]

Here's a direct link to the sticky topic with all the links to some of the many, many, many times this topic has come up: James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge

[desertrat]

The people at the Randy foundation use tests that the psychics are not good at. They do not want to give away that $1 mil. On that A.B.C. t.v. show they edited it in a way to make James Van Prage look like he did not know what he was doing. desert rat

[Erin Pavlina]

Psychic: I can read a book.
Skeptic: Prove it.
psychic: Okay give me any book to read, in English, and i will read it.
Skeptic: Done.

Skeptic hands psychic a book, written in English. Psychic is ready to start reading. Skeptic turns out the light, and they are both in pitch darkness.

Skeptic: Go ahead and read the book. If you can...
Psychic: I can't read the book now.
Skeptic: Why not? You said you could read a book right? Well you're holding a book, writtein in English, there are words on the page. Why can't you read?
Psychic: Well you turned the lights off. So i can't see the pages now.
Skeptic: (chortling) Uh huh. Well if you could really read a book you'd be able to read the book even in the dark.
Psychic: Come again? how can I read a book in the dark. I can't see the words.
Skeptic: You must not be very good at reading then. The words are 6 inches from your face. You, sir, are clearly a fraud.
Psychic: This is not a fair test.
Skeptic: Well I'm sorry but it's the only test you get. I gave you a chance to read a book and you couldn't. You're a charlatan. Next!

[HiImJeremy]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Psychic: I can read a book.
Skeptic: Prove it.
psychic: Okay give me any book to read, in English, and i will read it.
Skeptic: Done.

Skeptic hands psychic a book, written in English. Psychic is ready to start reading. Skeptic turns out the light, and they are both in pitch darkness.

Skeptic: Go ahead and read the book. If you can...
Psychic: I can't read the book now.
Skeptic: Why not? You said you could read a book right? Well you're holding a book, writtein in English, there are words on the page. Why can't you read?
Psychic: Well you turned the lights off. So i can't see the pages now.
Skeptic: (chortling) Uh huh. Well if you could really read a book you'd be able to read the book even in the dark.
Psychic: Come again? how can I read a book in the dark. I can't see the words.
Skeptic: You must not be very good at reading then. The words are 6 inches from your face. You, sir, are clearly a fraud.
Psychic: This is not a fair test.
Skeptic: Well I'm sorry but it's the only test you get. I gave you a chance to read a book and you couldn't. You're a charlatan. Next!

You're a fragment of brilliant, love

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by desertrat

The people at the Randy foundation use tests that the psychics are not good at. They do not want to give away that $1 mil. On that A.B.C. t.v. show they edited it in a way to make James Van Prage look like he did not know what he was doing. desert rat

They first showed it in a way that made JVP look like he was authentic and then showed the ways he was doing cold readings or could have found out information previously.

I've been disappointed about this particular psychic since reading one of his books where they had transcripts of several of his psychic readings for clients and I had expected better.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Skeptic hands psychic a book, written in English. Psychic is ready to start reading. Skeptic turns out the light, and they are both in pitch darkness.

Skeptic: Go ahead and read the book. If you can...
Psychic: I can't read the book now.

Then why didn't they say they can't read the book now, and walk away? Why'd they go ahead with the challenge? They must have actually believed they could read the book even in pitch darkness if they were willing to attempt it on national TV.

[lycan]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

Then why didn't they say they can't read the book now, and walk away? Why'd they go ahead with the challenge? They must have actually believed they could read the book even in pitch darkness if they were willing to attempt it on national TV.

Maybe Randi is a really good psychic using his mind powers to foil other lesser psychics?

[Slorri]

I don't think we should hate on Mr Randi too much, it's a good thing of he can expose some of the frauds, and there are a lot of them out there.
But also one could wonder if they did not get cold feet from the last contestant, Prorok, the jref really did chicken out of that one.

pavelprorok's Channel - YouTube

[desertrat]

Originally Posted by lycan

Maybe Randi is a really good psychic using his mind powers to foil other lesser psychics?

I have stated this before , I think James Randy does have occult knowledge and is using it to protect him self or some one would have done something to him long ago just to prove a point. desert rat

[Erin Pavlina]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

Then why didn't they say they can't read the book now, and walk away? Why'd they go ahead with the challenge? They must have actually believed they could read the book even in pitch darkness if they were willing to attempt it on national TV.

They probably did say that but were contractually obligated to continue.

the other thing that Randi seems to do is say that if he can do the same thing the psychic does but using trickery, illusion, and mentalist tricks then that must mean the psychic did the same thing. But that's false logic. Just because Randi can achieve a result using illusion doesn't mean that's how the psychic is doing it. it's just silly.

[moonrambler]

I guess I just get frustrated because it seems like somewhere on the planet there must be an authentic psychic who would be willing to call up Nightline or whatever show that was, and say "I can do this and that, and I can do it on your show." And go do it. And make even the skeptics go "whoa." Leave the whole James Randi stuff out of it.

I feel like Carl Sagan who wanted so much to find extraterrestrial life; I really want to believe there are some authentic psychics but every time, I get disappointed by the lack of anything concrete whatsoever.

[SethWilliams]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

I guess I just get frustrated because it seems like somewhere on the planet there must be an authentic psychic who would be willing to call up Nightline or whatever show that was, and say "I can do this and that, and I can do it on your show." And go do it. And make even the skeptics go "whoa." Leave the whole James Randi stuff out of it.

I feel like Carl Sagan who wanted so much to find extraterrestrial life; I really want to believe there are some authentic psychics but every time, I get disappointed by the lack of anything concrete whatsoever.

Why not just try and develop psychic abilities yourself?

Surely thats a fool-proof way of figuring it out.

I could try and give you a reading.

[moonrambler]

While I was writing that last post, I was thinking, "Heck, sometimes I can do better than some of these people." Then I remembered something that happened during that show that was intriguing to me.

I wasn't paying real close attention, so I don't remember if this was JVP or some other psychic, who was asking if the person had any connection with a big fluffy dog, and the person kept saying no. A minute or so later, I was thinking this message was actually for me, because there's been a lot of discussion in my world lately about the sudden and unexpected demise of a friend's big fluffy dog and she's really strung out about it.

That sent me into thoughts about subjective reality and all that, like how could this psychic message be for me all this time after the episode was filmed, yet it had a weirdness about it.

Nothing really to do with anything, but, anyways.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by SethWilliams

Why not just try and develop psychic abilities yourself?

And while I was posting that "I can do better than some of these people," you're posting this!

[desertrat]

After a few minutes of thought . If some one makes James Randy drop dead , it would be bad karma ,not nice , and I think he has protected him self any way. If we state some where that we will make it rain in an area that has a bad drought, like Texas or certain parts Africa . Slow gentle rain that fills the lakes and makes the crops grow. Art Bell did this one night , to put out fires in Floridia , but it was too much rain and it lead to floods . desert rat

[Erin Pavlina]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

I guess I just get frustrated because it seems like somewhere on the planet there must be an authentic psychic who would be willing to call up Nightline or whatever show that was, and say "I can do this and that, and I can do it on your show." And go do it. And make even the skeptics go "whoa." Leave the whole James Randi stuff out of it.

a lot of psychics ARE able to demonstrate their abilities on national tv. But the problem is that the skeptics will say, "Maybe the person he read for is in on it. Maybe he used the internet to find out info about the person ahead of time. Maybe he used mentalist tricks or cold reading. Maybe he hired a private investigator to research the entire audience so he would know details about each one." And on and on. There comes a point when a psychic can only do so much. If a person doesn't want to believe, they won't.

As the saying goes...

To those who don't believe, no proof is possible
To those who do believe, no proof is necessary

But I would say that for those who do believe they've already received enough proof to convince themselves.

[moonrambler]

If people don't want to believe, they won't. But what about the people who do want to believe, but all those 'maybes' you raise go unanswered?

'To those who don't believe, no proof is possible,' is simply untrue. I've had my beliefs changed plenty of times.

[Erin Pavlina]

Moonrambler, have you gone to a reputable psychic and gotten a reading?

If so, what did you think?

If you haven't, why not?

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by desertrat

I think James Randy does have occult knowledge and is using it to protect him self or some one would have done something to him long ago just to prove a point. desert rat

I have thought about the possibility of somebody wanting to revenge-attack Randi for the whole 'all psychics are frauds' thing. If something out of the occult really wanted to hurt him or even kill him, then I seriously doubt this guy would be able to withstand it with traditional psychic methods. There are some things out there that a very serious to play with, fortunately for Randi he seems to be targeting 'famous' psychics rather than powerful practitioners. I would also like to say that most of the people who would fall into the later category do not want to be made public, because doing so would draw far too much unwanted attention.

[Le Roi]

I used to not believe in psychics (had been for 15 years a total atheist in which there was no spiritual world). Then, 3-4 years ago, I decided to believe in that kind of spiritual world where psychics existed and were real. I decided to believe in it purely on a risk analysis fashion: if I beleived in it, my life would improve and if I was wrong and I believed in a spiritual world that actually didn't exist, my life would still be better off. I had no proof at the time but felt life would be better anyhow. I announced to everyone around me this switch and carried on.

Within a year, a world started opening up that I never knew existed before. This new girl I was dating could tell what my emotions were even when we were separated by an ocean and we hadn't talked or communicated for a couple days. More than once, she emailed me out of the blue and asked "Are you feeling this way, because I keep getting an image in my head of you feeling this way.". And sure enough I just had something happen that day unrelated to her where I felt strongly in that manner. That's not exactly psychic, but this was the start of proof that there existed a connection beyond the physical.

A few years later, including having had a number of readings, I have now received so much proof that has confirmed the existence of the real nature of psychics. I even asked a friend jokingly where I misplaced an object important to me, and she, very tentatively because she was new at being a psychic for others and had a hard time believing the voice in her head could actually tell me where the object was....told me exactly where to look for it. Sure enough it was exactly there and we were both blown by it. That's just one proof out of many I've received.

I never used to put much into the adage "You will see it when you believe it". In my case however, that's what happened. I had to believe in it first for my own selfish reasons, and once I did, I eventually saw and received a lot of proof to confirm it.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Moonrambler, have you gone to a reputable psychic and gotten a reading?

If so, what did you think?

If you haven't, why not?

Well, I'm not so much into the type of reading that involves a psychic talking to me about what's going on in my life and guidance for the future. I'm interested in the JVP type of reading where they communicate with people and pets who've passed on, and I think that's where I tend to see most of the problems. But no, I haven't experienced that type of psychic reading directly. So, you make a good point that I'm not getting a true picture if I'm only seeing what's going on with famous psychics and those that go on TV shows. It's like what Midnite said too, I've wondered if the people who have the best powers stay away from the limelight.

I believe I get my own communication from people and pets who have passed on, which is one reason I haven't ever gone to a psychic for that purpose. I have no idea whether I could achieve that sort of communication on demand though, or under rigorous restrictions, the way Randi sets things up.

[Laurenaus]

i saw that special, boy it made psychics look kinda bad

[Laurenaus]

I hope JVP is the real thing cuz i just read one of his books and enjoyed it!

[moonrambler]

Here's a skeptic commentary on last night's Beyond Belief show and an answer from the palm reader on the show:

Skeptic Freethought Beyond Belief – ABC Nightline Special on Psychics

[Le Roi]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

Well, I'm not so much into the type of reading that involves a psychic talking to me about what's going on in my life and guidance for the future.

Why not?

I'm interested in the JVP type of reading where they communicate with people and pets who've passed on, and I think that's where I tend to see most of the problems.
...
I believe I get my own communication from people and pets who have passed on, which is one reason I haven't ever gone to a psychic for that purpose.

So, in a way, the psychics you have a problem with are the ones who claim to be able to do what you feel you can do yourself? So, it's like you feel you can talk to dead people and dead pets, but have a hard time believing others who claim to be able to do that too? Do you think maybe you have some self-doubts about your own ability to do that, and it's being reflective in how you judge other people who claim to be able to do that?

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Le Roi

Why not?

I don't know. It just doesn't appeal to me. I will mention that David Chung did a free short reading for me in early 2010 and he was startlingly accurate. Then again, is that a psychic reading, when he can pick up on my state of mind through my forum posts?

So, in a way, the psychics you have a problem with are the ones who claim to be able to do what you feel you can do yourself? So, it's like you feel you can talk to dead people and dead pets, but have a hard time believing others who claim to be able to do that too? Do you think maybe you have some self-doubts about your own ability to do that, and it's being reflective in how you judge other people who claim to be able to do that?

It's not so much that I don't believe others can do it, but whenever I seek out these people in books and on TV, their skills seem to fall far short of what they claim.

I also notice a lot of discrepancy among psychics who claim to be able to communicate with deceased people. For instance, I've read commentary that spirits only communicate for a short time and then they move on, and if they keep communicating, it means they are trapped here. Other people who say they have psychic abilities disagree with that and they continue to communicate with their loved ones on a semi-regular basis.

[desertrat]

Originally Posted by Laurenaus

i saw that special, boy it made psychics look kinda bad

The show last week was on the n.d.e. . I thought it was a lot more balanced in there aproch. Yes they did have people that said the n.d.e. was all in the head of a dieing person. It might of been a personal experence of the person making that show. desert rat