The Permission Issue

[HiImJeremy]

This is something I’ve looked into for a while now in my break away from the forums, as well as another few topics I will be talking about over the next few threads. This is a personal opinion I’ve based on my own introspection, observation, experience and research in the areas concerning Healing, Psychic development and readings etc. Special mention to Robert Bruce who’s actually changed my mind about a lot of things spiritual. He’s quite an influence in my work now and is quoted within this article.

Some of what I may have to say over the coming weeks may step on the toes of holy and infallible dogma. My goal is not to offend but to bring about grounded, innovative views in the field of spirituality, and less of this wishy washy ‘I read it in a book’ stuff I’m seeing all the time.

The permission issue relates to healing. It’s about getting permission to give healing to somebody. It’s the ‘rule’ we’re all told to follow before any healing is given. It’s just simply something we’re told we MUST do. Who tells us? Books, websites, sometimes people who are our mentors or just other fellow spiritual practitioners.

I’ve seen a few people withhold healing unless they have permission on the forums, and that’s what sort of sparked my interest into thinking deeper on it.
After long thought and research into the matter myself, I have come to the conclusion that asking permission to send healing to someone is (and to use a term I found by a mentor of mine) ‘Absolute Bollocks’

If someone is with you, as in a physical interaction, it is polite and good mannered to simply ask that person if they’d like healing. Whatever they say, it’s alright. Honour their feelings if they say no. I wouldn’t spend time giving healing to someone if they didn’t want it.

What if a sibling, parent, friend, child of yours had a car accident and was in a coma in hospital? Would you withhold healing until they awaken and they give you permission?

“Oh” I hear!

“It’s a karmic thing they’ve got going” or “Nah, I need permission otherwise I’m breaking the laws of this and that”

What laws? What karmic retribution?

You know your sibling or parent would want you to send them healing, even if not on a conscious level.

“Oh yeah, but you’re interfering with the rules and that person may be meant to die and you giving them healing may stop them from dying at the appointed time.”

...Really? This is getting silly.

What about the recent disasters all around the world. Would you wait until you speak to a Japanese person affected by the tsunami before you send healing?

What about someone of pre-language age who can’t respond to you?

Do you ask the parents? What if the parents are dead? Do you ask their legal guardians? Is this a legal matter? Is this like a disclaimer you sign, do we need to get permission from the babies legal guardians? What’s that got to do with love and spirit?

Absolutely nothing.

This is purely a politeness thing.

This is a view held by Robert which I agree with.

When you give healing, if the healing is accepted, permission is given by default. If a person doesn’t wont healing and you’re giving healing, it’s not going to be accepted. However, if the person gets better and improves because of your healing even though they don’t want it (probably because it’s someone you love and you’re going to give it anyway) then the healing is still being accepted even though in the mind they’re saying “No, that’s against my beliefs, I’m a born again Buddhist” or whatever. But you give it to them anyway, they get better - healings been accepted at a more spiritual level, not the mind.

Bottom line is, if it works, if they’ve improved, it’s been accepted, and permission is automatically granted.

Let us not forget what healing is all about. It’s an intention of love, a very sacred and spiritual thing to do for someone. It’s like praying for someone.

To reiterate on the main points here. Asking permission to send healing is a politeness thing – it is not some universal law that will inflict karmic retribution if you choose to ignore it. Healing is a sacred and very spiritual act that comes from the intent of love. If you send healing to someone and they improve, even if they don’t want it, permission was automatically given on a deeper level. If it’s not accepted, and there’s no improvement, then there is possibly a deeper reason behind this.

xxx

[angel A]

Hi jeremy i believe all of the above too! but i was taught, by my Reiki master, that healers should ask the reciever's higher self for permission before healing,if they are unable to give consent themselves. I think the reason is just to be polite.Like you say, if a family member was in an accident ,you would just automatically offer any healing you could, wether or not they gave their consent.I have sent healing, many times,to a family member ,unknown to them,but i just ask their higher self to please accept the healing given with love!

I do ask clients to sign an energy consent form before giving healing though,but that is purely for legal reasons. In this day and age, unfortunately,people are so quick to sue each other for such stupid reasons. I have to protect myself from such people.I may give healing and then someone could deacide that they didnt want it ,and accuse me of healing against their will.

[HiImJeremy]

Hmm the legal matter there is another thing which is a bit ridiculous don't you think? I don't think people like that actually understand healing in the first place if they're sueing you for such a pure thing.

[hazelfern]

I like this thinking and the idea that you can send the healing but that the person can refuse it on a spiritual level. I've done long distance healing in the past and I had not asked permission, it just seemed like the right thing to do. And in couple of instances there wasn't anyone to ask permission of, they were unconscious or out of contact. It's only been recently, with my reading, that I've noticed the caution about asking permission which seems counter intuitive at times.

The only thing I've run into is being careful to ask that the healing be done for the highest good of all concerned and not trying to focus on only one area that I thought needed healing. In some of my first attempts on myself I noticed that I might heal one thing but then shift the problem elsewhere if I tried to focus too much on a specific area and did not for the highest good for all for the healing.

[Richful]

Jeremy you could compare this to the legal issue of giving First Aid. The laws governing First Aiders (in Australia) say that you must have consent from the person injured. However, if they are unconscious then consent is implied and you can proceed to help.
With minors permission must be sought from a legal guardian, if a legal guardian is not present then I think the legal boundaries are thin but you can still help them. Trying to give first aid without permission is considered a form of assault in the eyes of the law. Slightly different issue obviously, I thought this might help though

[Rezzy7]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

I have come to the conclusion that asking permission to send healing to someone is (and to use a term I found by a mentor of mine) ‘Absolute Bollocks’.

Like hazelfern, I only recently have heard permission is necessary. And I don't think I can agree that it is, because...

Let us not forget what healing is all about. It’s an intention of love, a very sacred and spiritual thing to do for someone. It’s like praying for someone.

There is only good intent, and I would think, little or no possible harm that can come from healing in the ways we are referring.

In Christianity, how I was raised but no longer live, you don't ask habitually permission to pray for someone. Occasionally you might, if they are present and you know them not to be "believers", or if they had a differing faith. As already said, this is just a polite consideration of the person's comfort level and respect for their personal beliefs.

Can you imagine if Jesus had felt the need to ask permission? "Lazarus, if it's ok with you, RISE."

Yeah, I don't think there's a karmic thing. I would posit that if the person is "meant to die" or some reason "meant to have pain or sickness", the healing would just be deflected anyway. Assuming there's any such thing as "meant to".

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

Hmm the legal matter there is another thing which is a bit ridiculous don't you think?

AngelA's concern about the legal ramifications is not, but the fact that some people might sue is ridiculous. Unfortunately, those people exist.

One thing that occurs to me is that if you are a healer, very likely you are practicing a life which will may rarely if ever allow such a person to cross your path anyway, much less come to you for healing. Even if someone does try to sue, what is there to prove the healer did anything, anyway? Do courts of law acknowledge the power of healing now?

Originally Posted by Richful

Jeremy you could compare this to the legal issue of giving First Aid. The laws governing First Aiders (in Australia) say that you must have consent from the person injured. However, if they are unconscious then consent is implied and you can proceed to help.

In administering first aid or any traditional medical method, there are many things that can go wrong, so consent is required. However, in an energetic healing, where it is fueled by love and loving intent, what can possibly happen? You can't accidentally burn someone's arm by Reiki, can you? You can't accidentally give them a brand of energy they're allergic to, can you? Of course, I could be way wrong, since I have had only minor study of the healing arts thus far.

[HiImJeremy]

Originally Posted by Richful

Jeremy you could compare this to the legal issue of giving First Aid. The laws governing First Aiders (in Australia) say that you must have consent from the person injured. However, if they are unconscious then consent is implied and you can proceed to help.
With minors permission must be sought from a legal guardian, if a legal guardian is not present then I think the legal boundaries are thin but you can still help them. Trying to give first aid without permission is considered a form of assault in the eyes of the law. Slightly different issue obviously, I thought this might help though

Yes this sounds quite similar to me. My stance is basically, i'll ask if they're there with me. It's good manners to ask if you can lay hands on someone. You are touching a person here, and people take issue when their physical body is touched. That's a personal privacy matter too. Like i said, i wouldn't if they said no and they didn't want it. If they come to me for healing on their own, permission is already 'implied' as you stated, which was a good way of putting it.

However, i will give an example. Today a saw a young girl in the local paper who i've never met before. She has terminal cancer and it's a very rare type of cancer at that. I saw her picture, quickly read through the article and sat right there at my dinner table and sent her healing. I know that i didn't ask her if she'd like some healing. She could probably be religious and not believe in it or she could object. But i sympathized with her condition and sent healing anyway. It might provide comfort in some way and it was something i could do. In a case like this, i didn't feel i needed permission.

If on some level, the healing was absolutley no help at all, then there could be a few reasons why. These are only theories, not experience.

1) Is that they aren't meant to have healing. You're intentions were well and good and you've done no harm but offer help - however there was something deeper at work here. A personal spiritual lesson, a growing period.

2) Another is just a complete block to anything like that. complete shutdown, don't want it, don't want to know about it, perhaps even subconscious processes blocking anything from coming through. Again, intentions were good, energy was offered, but the universe simply followed what the patient was insisting on. So the universe says 'So Be It'

Something i haven't brought up is the opposite of healing. Healing only need its intention changed and it can be an effective means of hurting another person. Have you personally, or known anyone who would brood over somebody, talk horrible things about another person, think horrible things, wish death and pain and suffering etc - on another person? Did one need permission for this? Was that energy still going through to them? I'm sure we've all felt something odd from another person, bad vibes ' I don't like that person! It feels like they're talking about me'.

I've had it, it makes me feel crap lol. I get paranoid an introverted. Others may become aggressive - the implications of anothers thoughts on someone has an effect as far as my experience can proceed. And from my experience, these people sending bad vibes never needed permission to talk or think crap about them.

Of course there are deeper implications for such people - though what is commonly reffered to as Karma is something i have yet to research personally.

Your post helped me think about this in more physical terms. Thank you for helping me grow.

xxx

[HiImJeremy]

I would like to clarify that i am not saying that permission for healing is to be ignored completely. I am saying that it is not a 'vital, absolute must' to ask for permission in ALL circumstances.

A healer friend of mine wrote a small self published book. In it he recounts most of his family dying from cancer. He 'always' asked permission and would not give healing otherwise. In fact, none of his siblings or parents gave him permission for healing, so they all suffered quite long and slow deaths. He said he couldn't give healing because he didn't have permission, and so he didn't.

He is an exceptional healer, very old man now, about 86, and he has something like an 80% success rate with his healing. Nothing hugely magical. Just that from all the thousands of people he has recieved thank you letters from, testimonials and all the rest, about 80% of them had all benefitted in some way from the healing he gave.

Anyway, if at a stage like that, i wouldnt give a toss if they said no, they would be getting healing on a daily basis from me regardless of there thoughts on it. In secret if necessary. If they refused then i would send healing and leave it for the deeper part of them to decide and not just where the ego can influence the decision.

I hope this helped people understand better where i'm coming from. You all seem to anyway, i just wished to enforce it and make myself more clear. This is a growing process after all, especially for me. I rely on you smart people to help inspire me!

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

Anyway, if at a stage like that, i wouldnt give a toss if they said no, they would be getting healing on a daily basis from me regardless of there thoughts on it. In secret if necessary.

This clearly is a violation of the free will of another and lack of humility. No one has the right to interfere. The only thing we may do without permission is to pray and to give Love. That's all. Perhaps you should ask yourself, what your true motivation is.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

If they refused then i would send healing and leave it for the deeper part of them to decide and not just where the ego can influence the decision.

Yes, this is acceptable. But first and foremost we should worry about our own ego in the process.

Merrick

[HiImJeremy]

That's a fair observation. I'm not ashamed of what i have written however.

My sending healing to a family member close to me will not do harm to that family member. I am not breaching any law or violating free will by choosing myself to send healing. They can choose themselves on whatever level, to accept or deny the healing healing. But I will send it anyway.

Just for the record, no family member who would be in a sitation like that would deny me sending healing. They're all quite open to that. This is all hypothetical.

You do not take issue with prayers or to give love, yet the essence of healing is to send love. It is an intention to send love that carries the healing to them. Same with prayers. The only difference i draw between prayer and healing is that with prayer, im pumping a bit of energy through at the same time.

Also the from what space im coming from when giving healing- the motivation etc, that's an excellent point. When i am in a situation like that i will look deeper into it. For now i can only say it is my love for that person that is the motivation to send them healing.

So i considered your statement and i agreed with it at first. But after some contemplation, i believe i'm not invading their free will choice at all. They're still choosing to accept the healing or not - but i choose to send it regardless.

It's alright for you to think that though. I'm ok with that.

Thank you for your comment, it was helpful to me.
xxx

[alphamind]

I agree with the original post.

If people can curse you without your permission, what's the difference in sending healing energy to you instead? The whole thing of good vs bad is purely human concept BS, as we all know in reality - outside our egoistic perceptions - all is neutral.

I agree it is simply good manners to ask for permission first. My father is very stressful and being recently attuned to reiki, I needed to test my channeling of the energy. So I experimented on him and when I offered him a full session, he refused. He needs some healing energy more than anything, but I respected his wish and left it at that. Some times people just don't wanna be helped. I think some of us had a similar experience when we were kids or even these days a family member..."MOM, IT'S ALRIGHT, I'M NOT HUNGRY!"

I do believe that though destiny can be changed, it exists nonetheless and that the near future is somehow set. So if you do send healing energy to somebody successfully without their permission, you were only doing your part as a fraction of the universe.

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

My sending healing to a family member close to me will not do harm to that family member. I am not breaching any law or violating free will by choosing myself to send healing. They can choose themselves on whatever level, to accept or deny the healing healing. But I will send it anyway.

It may be true and it may not. It depends on their self-awareness. Most people are highly susceptible to manipulation.

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

A healer friend of mine wrote a small self published book. In it he recounts most of his family dying from cancer. He 'always' asked permission and would not give healing otherwise. In fact, none of his siblings or parents gave him permission for healing, so they all suffered quite long and slow deaths. He said he couldn't give healing because he didn't have permission, and so he didn't].

The wise old friend of yours knew that from a myopic point of view their suffering was needles. But from a broader perpective it was a very important part of the process of their inner growth. And that he had no right to interfere and to take their learning, which they themselves had chosen, away from them.

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

... yet the essence of healing is to send love.]

Yes, it is. But how often this noble purpose contorts to the healer's own ego satisfaction?

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

The only difference i draw between prayer and healing is that with prayer, im pumping a bit of energy through at the same time

I understand prayer differently. My approach is asking for help for that person in harmony with the Laws of the Universe and God's will.

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

For now i can only say it is my love for that person that is the motivation to send them healing.

There is love and there is love. The first one is coming from the attachment of one's ego. The other one is unconditional, accepting all and everything. I.e., the disease as well. It also plays an important part in our lives. Nothing is more important than anything else.

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

... I believe i'm not invading their free will choice at all. They're still choosing to accept the healing or not - but i choose to send it regardless.

Like I said, it depends on the level of their self-awareness.

I understand where you are coming from. I have a dear friend who also tends to save everybody. And if she could, she would be saving the whole world . And she doesn't understand when I'm trying to explain to her that she should let go and let God, so to speak.

I will give you an example. Her daughter's best friend (a 21 years old girl) had a terrible accident in Italy. She was in coma and the doctors were giving her only about 30% chance to survive. And my friend immediately started summoning all the help she could and she asked us to please help too. So, we did and I asked another lady with psychic abilities to help as well.

Lenka (my girlfriend) spoke to the girl's soul. And she asked her to please pass on the message to her relatives and friends to stop calling her back. She wanted to break free and move on. She was happy with that. Her physical body was badly damaged, she was about to lose one eye etc. And the angels and other high Beings respected her decision and didn't force any healing on her. Lenka spoke to them as well and they said it was perfectly all right.

The other lady, who was helping, confirmed everything Lenka had said. She also spoke to the girl's soul and was asked to please pass on the same message.

But the human's didn't respect her. The family, the friends, including the one who asked us for help, and who said that such young people should not die, exerted such a strong effort that they eventually managed to pull her back into the physical body. And I can tell you - her soul was crying bitterly, pleading to leave her alone.

Wasn't that a violation, a violence? "Help", coming out not out of respect and pure Love but for the satisfaction of many egoes' attachment and egoistic love? (Tinted, admittedly, with a bit of the unconditional Love as well, not to be unjust.)

She did lose one eye, fortunately her family is wealthy and they could afford to pay for a very high standard medical care, multiple expensive operations, plastic surgeries to her face...

But all the three of us, who had been involved on a deeper level, do not believe that what happened was right. I do not mean "right" from the point of the ego - the judging - but from the level of clear discrimination - viveka - which comes from awareness. Well, most people don't know the difference, though.

Anyway, I know that you mean well and I have a great respect for you, Jeremy.

Merrick

[Rezzy7]

Originally Posted by Merrick1

This clearly is a violation of the free will of another and lack of humility. No one has the right to interfere. The only thing we may do without permission is to pray and to give Love. That's all. Perhaps you should ask yourself, what your true motivation is.

I'm just not seeing where the lack of humility is in Jeremy's perspective, and he explained his true motivation. Well, what he believes it is, at least.

I don't know how it's any different than praying for someone, as far as the need for permission is concerned. Is it any less an offering of love? And no, we're not talking about the fake love, that wouldn't really have much healing power, anyway, would it?

For it to be some kind of violation assumes there is no greater power than the healer's energy and intent, but there is. I would think if it's important for that person to remain unwell or to die, the healer will not be able to interfere anyway, despite your story about the girl in the coma.

Besides....

Most people I know who practice a form of healing do so with the participation of their own guides, the person's guides, and possibly higher beings, as a matter of practice. And even if they don't specifically invoke such guides, someone is going to be watching out for that person's interests, and I would imagine could intervene if that was actually necessary (I don't think it would be).

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

You do not take issue with prayers or to give love, yet the essence of healing is to send love. It is an intention to send love that carries the healing to them. Same with prayers.

This is what I say, too. I don't see a difference except in one the healer channels the energy themselves*, in the other the person praying asks God or Jesus to do the healing. Either way the person may not have given permission.
*with help.

Originally Posted by alphamind

I agree with the original post.

If people can curse you without your permission, what's the difference in sending healing energy to you instead?

Well the difference is that healing comes out of wanting the best for the person, cursing does not.

Thus, a person offering a curse is not going to care whether that person gives their permission for the curse or not. That's absurd! We're not talking about whether someone can do it without asking permission, but whether it is more courteous or "proper" to ask, right? Obviously, a curse is not courteous or polite, so I don't think the two can be compared.

Originally Posted by Merrick1

I understand prayer differently. My approach is asking for help for that person in harmony with the Laws of the Universe and God's will.

This is the same approach used by the people I know who do healings. It's part of the whole opening and closing ritual to state something to that effect, whatever is best for the person. The intent is, and assumption is, that if "God" has another plan, that plan will prevail. This makes the concern about asking permission a non-issue.

But I understand what you mean about the ego, and it is certain that some practitioners do get their ego involved. I've not witnessed it but have heard and read about it.

[HiImJeremy]

Many excellent points you brought up Merrick. This post deserves a personal response.

Originally Posted by Merrick1

It may be true and it may not. It depends on their self-awareness. Most people are highly susceptible to manipulation.

Yes it can depend on awareness. Manipulation is a strong world though. I don’t aim through healing to coerce God into healing my family member. Their conscious self may say they don’t want it, but like good intentions and prayers, if I can send some healing through, Their Higher Self may have a place for that healing. Now this is a possibility, and it may not work. They may block it completely as per their hypothetical request. If so, the healing won’t work in any way and it will go somewhere else. The point here is I would try anyway. This may seem like an ego response to the situation, it actually even could be, I don’t deny.

The wise old friend of yours knew that from a myopic point of view their suffering was needles. But from a broader perpective it was a very important part of the process of their inner growth. And that he had no right to interfere and to take their learning, which they themselves had chosen, away from them.

Nice perspective and I see your point. This is helpful too. There was also the possibility that he could have actually helped, even though they said no, and they could have eased their suffering a little bit, even if only minor. He could have been let through on some level, something deep down. He is a good man, hard arse though lol. Actually he firmly believes self-healing is impossible. That’s just an interesting fact ahaha.

Yes, it is. But how often this noble purpose contorts to the healer's own ego satisfaction?

I won’t deny that healers can come from an ego perspective. This permission issue is quite controversial and ego is bound to be brought up. I don’t know how often love can contort to a healers own ego satisfaction.

I understand prayer differently. My approach is asking for help for that person in harmony with the Laws of the Universe and God's will.

Isn’t that healing? Good intentions and Love?

There is love and there is love. The first one is coming from the attachment of one's ego. The other one is unconditional, accepting all and everything. I.e., the disease as well. It also plays an important part in our lives. Nothing is more important than anything else.

True. I see what you mean. It would be all too easy again to get sucked into the ego. The unconditional love definition there ‘accepting all and everything’ is a really good one. I do like it. Even if coming from that space, would you still send prayers and love to that person? Isn’t that healing in its own way? In fact is all healing appropriate at all if we go from that definition? Accept everyone’s disease as learning and let them suffer with it. I’m not a big bible reader, but Jesus came from unconditional love didn’t he? He was a Master, yet he saw a blind man and restored his vision? He seen hungry people, so he manifested bread and beverages. If he asked permission for healing, it was straight to God. I admit it’s probably a bit selfish on my part if it did actually happen. Was it selfish of Jesus not to ask permission? I’m no Master; I’m only looking outside the square here. I would learn though.

Like I said, it depends on the level of their self-awareness.

I understand where you are coming from. I have a dear friend who also tends to save everybody. And if she could, she would be saving the whole world . And she doesn't understand when I'm trying to explain to her that she should let go and let God, so to speak.

I will give you an example. Her daughter's best friend (a 21 years old girl) had a terrible accident in Italy. She was in coma and the doctors were giving her only about 30% chance to survive. And my friend immediately started summoning all the help she could and she asked us to please help too. So, we did and I asked another lady with psychic abilities to help as well.

Lenka (my girlfriend) spoke to the girl's soul. And she asked her to please pass on the message to her relatives and friends to stop calling her back. She wanted to break free and move on. She was happy with that. Her physical body was badly damaged, she was about to lose one eye etc. And the angels and other high Beings respected her decision and didn't force any healing on her. Lenka spoke to them as well and they said it was perfectly all right.

The other lady, who was helping, confirmed everything Lenka had said. She also spoke to the girl's soul and was asked to please pass on the same message.

But the human's didn't respect her. The family, the friends, including the one who asked us for help, and who said that such young people should not die, exerted such a strong effort that they eventually managed to pull her back into the physical body. And I can tell you - her soul was crying bitterly, pleading to leave her alone.

Wasn't that a violation, a violence? "Help", coming out not out of respect and pure Love but for the satisfaction of many egoes' attachment and egoistic love? (Tinted, admittedly, with a bit of the unconditional Love as well, not to be unjust.)

She did lose one eye, fortunately her family is wealthy and they could afford to pay for a very high standard medical care, multiple expensive operations, plastic surgeries to her face...

But all the three of us, who had been involved on a deeper level, do not believe that what happened was right. I do not mean "right" from the point of the ego - the judging - but from the level of clear discrimination - viveka - which comes from awareness. Well, most people don't know the difference, though.

Anyway, I know that you mean well and I have a great respect for you, Jeremy.

Merrick

Great story!

Yes that is a clear violation. I want to be clear here. To me sending healing does not mean bringing them back from certain death. If I knew that that family member’s soul was meant to go, then I would accept that. The healing I would aim for is the healing that would help to ease whatever pain it could, whatever suffering. I know I can’t help everyone, but I do have the tools to help in some way, and I would utilise that.

You can say in a way, again this is hypothetical, that I really am letting God take care of the situation. By sending healing and stepping back, allowing whatever is meant to happen to happen. At least then I can say I tried, I could accept the situation for whatever is going to happen.

What I don’t understand is how that actually worked at all? Your story, you say there were higher beings and angels – did they just stand back and let this family impede their will on her? Surely if she was meant to go – she would have gone. There wouldn’t have been a human force that could have kept her here, right? If she has improved and come back then hasn’t the healing worked and been accepted on some level? And if the healing has worked and been accepted then hasn’t the permission been implied in some way also?

Do you think perhaps it’s like how family members sometimes keep the spirits of their children earthbound because of their attachment to them? This is just out of interest.

Thank You Merrick, I have great respect for you too because you’re doing me a big favour. You’re helping me cultivate self knowledge, allowing me to look within to find my answers. That’s the fundamental step to take for any spiritual growth. Sure we may see it differently, but you’re helping me fine tune my perception. You brought up good and valid points and I don’t deny, it may not be for the highest good all the time, but I would give it a go.

xxx

[wstein]

First, forcing healing (or energy) on someone who does not want it is an assault. Notice I did not make any exceptions.

Contrary to what many suggest, it is possible to ‘heal’ someone against their will. However, the damage of this kind of violation will likely cause more harm than the original problem (illness).

Good intention is no excuse for abusive behavior. I myself have been the victim of an experienced healer of well meaning and pure intentions. They thought they saw my ‘illness’ and so kindly assumed a little energy could help or at least do no harm, WRONG. Part of the problem was the limited assumptions of their healing system. Dumping energy (of any kind) on someone does not always help sometimes it makes things worse. This is similar to spraying water on a fire. For some types of fires (grease for instance) it spreads the fire instead of putting it out.

It is not your place to assume you know best for another. Asking them permission is a way to allow them the choice to take the risk. Medical professionals have struggled with for quite a while now is in situations where a person *may* not be able to make the choice for themselves. At some level of impairment people take the responsibility to act on their behalf. Doing so takes on two burdens. The first is the same the person would have, namely that the cure is better than the disease. The second is that they are unable to completely be in another’s shoes and may make a choice counter to what they may want. FYI, the higher self does not have the right to assume it knows better either. Making or not making such a choice for a loved one is a tough thing to do.

While many people may forgive you, especially if you guessed correctly, that does not make it right.

[HiImJeremy]

Those were all good points.

Thank you for your contribution!

Goof thing i haven't had to do it yet otherwise i might be in a right kaffule right now then aye?

[angel A]

We could go on an on with this discussion. I think we all agree that we should ask permission before we give healing,whether thats asking the person themselves or ,asking their Higher self.

If the higher self gives permission, the person will recieve the healing,if not then they won't its a simple as that! If it's not for their highest good ,for whatever reason,karma ect, the healing will be diverted elsewhere,into the earth ,trees plants,or to someone else who has been praying for healing,so it is not wasted.The only way we would know if it's been accepted or not is if the reciever improves!

On the other hand if we ask the person ,face to face,for their permission, and it's not accepted,then obviously , we have to respect their wishes!

At the end of the day if we send healing with love, we can be assured that it is going where it is needed most! It just might not be where we expected it to go.

[Richful]

I'd would like to bring up a point on prayer. There have been a few comments made about how everyone seems to agree praying for someone else is fine without their permission. Well I have a little story to relate..

A friend of mine is a very spiritual person and has been a yogi (yoga teacher/devotee) for several years. She practices devotional prayer for those in her life and generally for humanity and lots of other compassionate stuff too. Back when she was in training we lived with another fellow who had a more Conspiracy theorist outlook on life. He is a good man, however he was focused on the dark forces he believed control humanity.

One day my we were all chatting about spiritual things around the lounge room (as you do ) and she mentioned her prayers. He began subtly mocking her prayers, implying that dark forces were attracted to them and they were at best useless and at worst dangerous. She went on to say she prayed for all her friends and loved ones... He asked if she prayed for him, she answered yes...
The conversation got heated from there. Long story short, his stance was that her prayers for him were exposing him to potential negative entities or energies and to please never, ever pray for him again...

Moral of my story? Not everyone shares the same beliefs about prayer. After all a prayer is essentially asking a higher power to intercede on your behalf in someones life. Which higher power you ask is controlled by you, not them.
Get consent or risk lament...? (Just doesn't have the same ring as Glove up before you love up)

I know most people believe prayer is harmless, I'm not saying it isn't. While we're talking about the grey areas in spiritual matters I thought it was worth noting.

@Jeremy
Mate, however you decide to proceed I think you're showing a lot of integrity to actually think all this through. It's easy to follow rules, it's harder to decide if the rules are worth following. Keep at it friend

[angel A]

I'm with you Jeremy on this one! As a reiki healer i will practice what i have been doing so far. I trust that my Angels/Guides, and my recievers Angels/Guides and Higherself ,will decide whether or not to accept if they cannot in person.

I believe in synchronisity, so it is perfectly feasable to me,that any healing i send, not accepted,is distributed and accepted by those who need,with the help of our Angels/Guides.

Thanks for sharing the story richful.It does make you realise how very much we have to learn and understand!

[HiImJeremy]

Thank you all for my help. You have all certainly helped me to think through everything. It helps to see many different perspectives. It's really good to see nice grounded responses as well.

We so often, with life in general, just believe what we're told. My aim is to have more groundedness in this section of the forum. To bring about deeper reflection on the processes of spirituality and psychic matters and not to take everything as hearsay.

This one on permission was one of such things i wanted to look at more. Spirit Guides is another, but i need to do much more inner work on that before i post my thoughts. Im still very unsure about that topic, and tha will definitley cause a stir.

I'm not the most intelligent person. It helps that i have these intelligent people objecting because again, it gives me something else to go on. Which is why i appreciate all your imput so much.

My opinions will change with time and reflection. These are only my thoughts now. With growth, more will be added to the picture which will help me to decide what needs to be done in a situation like that.

Also, thank you Richful. You're very kind. I'll do my best!

[HiImJeremy]

Upon further reflection, i still 100% agree with what i said in earlier posts regardless of the objections.

I would go further to add now that nothing can happen without the consent of the Higher Self.

If my friend was in a coma for days, and i gave healing and he improved, then i believe the healing was accepted by default.

If my friend did not improve, and in fact died, then his higher self did not give permission - and for good reason we should suspect.

If we look at the 18th century, and you were told that masterbating will give you horrible horrible acne and terrible skin condition, hairy palms etc - you would believe that - and then they would tell their children, and it would carry on. In the end it started with a form of social conditioning, and masterbating is not only a pleasurable experience, but causes none of those above things.

I believe this is also similar to this whole permission issue. You're ruled by your own self imposed and taught ethics and you live by them, then anything that does not meet those are wrong and shouldn't be done! I think this happens a lot in spiritual philosophies.

" NEVER! give healing or do anything without direct permission or terrible results may occur!"

Hardly so in my experience. That inclues most case histories too.

Reflecting especially on Merricks story, i now disagree, that what that family did was not at all a violation. That soul didn't pass on because the Higher Self did not allow it to happen. It is not a fault of the family. I do not doubt your girlfriend talked to the soul, but at that point, i don't even think it was up to the soul to make a choice - it was the HS.

And wstein - i actually disagree with pretty much all you have to say there.

The Higherself is far more wise, far more powerful and knowledgable then any of us.

Are healers Gods? No. Can we really interfere with Gods will? Are we so powerful?

Well - No. We're not. There will probably be people who will delude themselves into thinking so - but i don't think so.

So to reiterate - For healing, and for any lesson in life - nothing happens without the consent of the Higher Self. And if the Higher Self allows it, it's sweet. After all, The Higher self is Us and it's the part of the iceberg under the water. It has free will too, and far more then us.

A good rule of thumb ' It's easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.'

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

You're ruled by your own self imposed and taught ethics and you live by them, then anything that does not meet those are wrong and shouldn't be done!

And you're not? Everything that does meet those is right and should be done! What is the difference?

Anything can be justified by logic. We could go into long discussions about what the Higher Self is etc. etc.

You can justify your views as much as anybody else can justify theirs through logic.

I suppose such discussions can never lead to a universal agreement because these questions can't be answered through logic. Everyone has to find the answer within themselves for themselves.

Merrick

[Federer]

I know two things about permission and healing.

I have experienced this thing often and came to know that,"You already get permission when need and effort meets. Both are willing for positive things and goes for negative things,too. Just depends which is the choice and requirements."

Healers flow divine energy through themselves, because no one owns the actual energy. Just they are wide, broad and prepared to flow healing energies.

Hope this helps!!

[HiImJeremy]

Originally Posted by Merrick1

And you're not? Everything that does meet those is right and should be done! What is the difference?

Anything can be justified by logic. We could go into long discussions about what the Higher Self is etc. etc.

You can justify your views as much as anybody else can justify theirs through logic.

I suppose such discussions can never lead to a universal agreement because these questions can't be answered through logic. Everyone has to find the answer within themselves for themselves.

Merrick

Yes.

By 'You're' i mean everyone. I was speaking in the second person - i do that in a lot of past posts i read. It's comfortable.

When it comes down to it, it becomes a personal thing really. It can be argued and what not. Just like now, upon reflection, certain experiences change your views and stuff.

In the end though, i refuse to be limited by other peoples ethics. That's what i've come to realise anyway - especially after some of the views on this thread.

Well that settles it then. I'm quite happy with that. Hoped i was able to share something of value to the readers.

[Midnite]

Regarding psychic attacks; permission would be to miss the point altogether.
Regarding healing; ask permission or you will just be wasting your time.

[HiImJeremy]

Originally Posted by Midnite

Regarding healing; ask permission or you will just be wasting your time.

I disagree.

For example. My nana was recently in a car accident and the car was so badly damaged it was written off. My mother yelled it at me briefly before she flew off to go find her.

I sat down, i sent healing.

An hour and a half later she came home, i told her i sent her healing, and she went to show me where she had big bruises and welts and lumps - and she couldn't find any of them.

She didn't know i sent healing until i told her when she came home. My concern was for her to be alright in whatever way i could help, and it so happens i could send healing - and so i did.

Because she did heal up, and really really quick it seems, then the healing was accepted - if not by her on a conscious level, then her Higher Self allowed that healing through. If the Higher Self did not allow that healing through - then there's no issue there - i know i tried. Thankfully it did work though.

I also got rid of her whiplash - that one was with permission though, and a different method involving body work.

So on the contrary - well worth my time.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

And wstein - i actually disagree with pretty much all you have to say there.

Good for standing up for yourself.

I have been wrong before and will be wrong again.
Nothing you said above changes my mind.

?Likely the only way to be sure about this topic is to purposely heal someone against their express wishes and see what happens? Obviously this would be morally questionable for most people.

A similar issues arises on keeping ailing loved ones on life support beyond any reasonable possibility of recovery. Though technically not healing, the person may be held in the ‘living’ state against their wishes.

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

The Higherself is far more wise, far more powerful and knowledgable then any of us.

Are healers Gods? No. Can we really interfere with Gods will? Are we so powerful?

Well - No. We're not. There will probably be people who will delude themselves into thinking so - but i don't think so.

So to reiterate - For healing, and for any lesson in life - nothing happens without the consent of the Higher Self. And if the Higher Self allows it, it's sweet. After all, The Higher self is Us and it's the part of the iceberg under the water. It has free will too, and far more then us.

I can see that your view is consistent with your context.

In the interest of clarifying my view, not to be right or wrong nor to agree or disagree with you, my context is different than yours in the following ways:
-healing or damaging can be done by beings far less powerful then gods (or higher selves)
-those who have higher selves ARE the higher selves, not the incarnations
-higher selves can have higher selves
-higher selves can heal or damage their incarnations as they see fit
-there are beings far more powerful and capable than a higher self yet still far short of being a god

[HiImJeremy]

Thanks for clarifying your side wstein.

I don't expect to change your mind - i just wanted to share my view - and i genuinely enjoyed seeing interesting responses.

Our experiences just leads us to think differently. Whether it's right or wrong will depend on the individuals morals, ethics, beliefs we are partial to. As well as personal experiences. Seeing as these are different for each person - it's natural to agree and disagree with certain things.

those who have higher selves ARE the higher selves

I agree with this. I am not sure about the others you mention though - not having experience in those fields.

1 and 5 seem plausible though.

[VinceG]

I've been to the bar twice now and performed energy transfers on everyone I came into contact with. I don't think I'll be doing it again. As Midnite says, it's a waste of time. It was cool seeing validation of my skills, I sent energy to one player of ping pong and he won the round, then I sent it to the other player and he won the next, I could see the difference in their play immediately after I did the transfer.

But without knowing the people or having it be for a higher purpose, I didn't accomplish anything except figuring out that I was capable of channeling so much energy. So I can see where Midnite's coming from there. It's so much better for both parties when there's acknowledgement and reports back. Otherwise you might as well open your crown chakra and send God all over your town, lol. Heal my mom over the phone while I'm talking to her, unbidden? Sure, but why? Much better to have a back and forth dialogue, even should my healing progress past the point of direct transfers.

I'm sure there are isolated incidents which make it unfeasible to have the dialogue such as Jeremy's nana's car accident. But in the vast majority of cases, you're just not going to be very effective without the dialogue. You could restore sight to the blind, but if the patient doesn't know what's going on, he might well unwittingly re-damage his sight by himself.

Not unethical, just smart.

[HiImJeremy]

This is not under the assumption that i go around and give healing to everyone i see. This is not what it's all about at all. These are isolated incidents like my Nana's car crash.

Things like working with sick babies, pre-language age. I haven't come across this yet, but if possible, i'd help if i could.

Animals - I have done this with good results. Actually the dogs personality changed from really agressive to quite calm over a week or two period which was awesome to see.

Large events like natural disasters (Japanese tsunami, Australian Floods, Christchurch earthquakes) or man made events like 9/11 attacks, Wars.

If i come in contact with a person, and i get the silent hand on my shoulder that directs me to people who may need healing - then it is polite good manners to ask. If it is an incident where gaining permission is difficult or unable due to certain circumstances, then that is the time i will make the decision. Then it's up to the Higher Selves of the people i send healing too - to decide what happens with the healing. Healing can occur regardless, and if it does, then it was allowed to happen. If they get better, then it's worth it to me.

For mass events, i think any healing sent helps.