The Permission Issue

[Midnite]

Hi Jeremy,

I can see where your situation with your nana worked out very well. Firstly you knew her beforehand, secondly she is family, and finally I am assuming you have a reasonable to good relationship with her. All of these things would add up as to why her body accepted your healing.

There have been certain instances where the person I was healing did not;
a) want healing
b) believe healing was at all possible
c) did not receive any form of communication from me, that healing had been performed.

This lead to many self-limitations causing the healing to inevitably fail. Firstly their body rejected my energy, just in the same way your body can reject unknown foreign material in your blood, etc. It counteracts the foreign material/energy.

Secondly their own self-limiting beliefs were still perfectly maintained before and after healing was performed. Meaning their mindset believed they were sick, so therefore they remained sick.

Finally as Vince suggests; without telling people they have been healed, half the healing process would not come into effect. The whole point is healing the affliction on as many levels as possible; including physical/spiritual/mental. Their mental acknowledgement is an important step. Unless they were sensitive enough to pick up the energy work performed on them, they would gain little to no benefit as to the real reason as to why I believe healing like this exists: The application of the God-self for the practitioner, and secondly the acceptance or belief in the ethereal nature of our world for the patient.

Originally Posted by wstein

?Likely the only way to be sure about this topic is to purposely heal someone against their express wishes and see what happens?

I would also like you to try and do this. Because this is what your thread comes down to. Not their acceptance of your healing afterwards, like your Nana, but their non-acceptance altogether. I want to see if you still say 'It was worth my time' especially as there are so many willing participants who not only need your help but actually believe you can help them.

Twice now I have been specifically instructed to not heal a certain person. The reason being that I would interfere in their karmic consequences. If they were healed before they learnt their lesson, they would need to come back in the same circumstances and learn their lesson a second time without you being around. I therefore did not heal them or risk upsetting what is around me. On both occasions the afflicted person did not directly approach me, it was through another person/friend.

[HiImJeremy]

G'day

Again, this thread has somehow taken some assumption that i will give healing to random people who don't want to be healed. This is not the case at all. I have given you guys specific instances as to when i would likely bypass conscious permission.

My Nan's case was an example as to when i would send healing if i hadn't gained permission.

without telling people they have been healed, half the healing process would not come into effect. The whole point is healing the affliction on as many levels as possible; including physical/spiritual/mental. Their mental acknowledgement is an important step.

I actually haven't not told a person i have sent them healing so i have no personal experience in your theory that they need to know about their healing for it to be effective. Seems plausible.

Originally Posted by wstein
?Likely the only way to be sure about this topic is to purposely heal someone against their express wishes and see what happens?

I would also like you to try and do this. Because this is what your thread comes down to. Not their acceptance of your healing afterwards, like your Nana, but their non-acceptance altogether. I want to see if you still say 'It was worth my time' especially as there are so many willing participants who not only need your help but actually believe you can help them.

I haven't had to do this yet. We'll see what happens when the oppurtunity presents itself.

I have explained. I am not going around to strangers and going against their choice not to have healing. Personal situations like my nanas incident - was well worth my time. She was not in pain - and she was well. If i did do it for a stranger, knowing who i am, i would likely feel better anyway.

Also, i don't believe in karma - so those sorta things don't come into play when i do my healings.

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

Also, i don't believe in karma - so those sorta things don't come into play when i do my healings.

Oh? So do you believe we ever will have inter-life consequences to our actions? Or that we are meant to just believe there is?

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by Midnite

Twice now I have been specifically instructed to not heal a certain person. The reason being that I would interfere in their karmic consequences. If they were healed before they learnt their lesson, they would need to come back in the same circumstances and learn their lesson a second time without you being around.

Well, this is the point I have been trying to make. Nobody has the right to mess up with the life of another regardless how noble they believe it is, convinced that they are helping. Certainly, it may often seem so.

It is not about a self-imposed ethics or accepted teaching. There is a higher Law which transcends all personal ethics. And we bear the consequences of our actions whether we know the Law or not. Even though they may be mitigated if we don't and act in good faith.

But since this is something everyone has to discover for themselves I said that everyone can only find the answer within.

Merrick

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

Also, i don't believe in karma - so those sorta things don't come into play when i do my healings.

Well, this puts the whole thing into a completely different perspective. Now I understand why you're doing what you're doing.

Merrick

[HiImJeremy]

Originally Posted by Midnite

Oh? So do you believe we ever will have inter-life consequences to our actions? Or that we are meant to just believe there is?

The New age movement will often believe anything they read because it's in a book or because someone says it is. I disagree with this approach.

I don't just believe things because everyone says it's real. Not even guru's.

I only take into my core belief system what i have personally experienced. Since i feel i have not ever come across this - it remains only a possibility. Sounds more like a form of social control, a bit like how the christians view hell. You do bad things, bad things are gunna happen to ya. I don't buy it really.

I've also seen it used as an excuse for people not to help themselves and ease painful situations. Doesn't appeal to me really.

When i have repeatable personal experience - then i will take it on as a core belief and utilise that in my life - otherwise it only clogs my belief system. If i have things in my belief system that are not genuinely personally experienced, then all inspiration and truth that flows to me will be damaged and tainted by what's there.

Traditionally, we know about 1 - 2% about God and the universe according to hermetic approach - we don't have all the puzzle pieces yet and we shouldn't claim what's real and what's not just yet. It is largely quite personal and experimental.

This is why anyone can say anything they want - there may not be any truth to another individual with what i say, but what works, works. And the way i view things works for me.

So consequences to actions? Sure. Is it karma at work? Not so sure. Possible. That doesn't mean karma doesn't work. If you actually believe karma - you will see it working in your life. That is why belief is so important. All universal laws can introduce themselves to me when i get there - till then, they don't apply.

It is intelligent to start from scratch, on your own, from within. Work it out from there.

I also don't believe reincarnation or past lives just yet either. I'd love to look into that further sometime soon though.

This is my view.

[Christa]

I see that this issue has been very well viewed and argued from different angles, so I'm only going to add a personal experience. BTW, I agree with you, Jeremy - even Jung said that no real, inner transformation can take place except if the person has had a truly transforming, personal experience. Anyway, here's mine then...

A previous friend sent healing, by her own choice and for reasons unbeknown, to myself and her cousin every day, which she informed us about only a week after she'd started. She had used a Violet Flame-visualisation meditation. During that week both me and her cousin developed sore necks, and rather badly too. When I learnt about the friend's meditation I didn't connect the dots though; at the time I believed all healing practices to be necessarily 'good' and uplifting, no matter who did it or why.

Synchronicity would have it that the day after I learnt of her endeavour, I started reading a book by Lopsang Rampa (who's work I generally don't enjoy for some reason, so that book is still largely unread) in which he related how he fell ill, and his followers sent him loads of energy. He asked them to stop doing this, as it interfered with his body's healing processes. I immediately phoned the friend and asked her as gently as possible to cease and desist...and both me and her cousin's sore necks healed overnight.

This thread has already offered many explanations as to why this may have happened, so I'm not going to discuss my views here. It's very much a mixture of all this wisdom, and obviously coloured by my personal life experiences, insights, outsights and biases!

Hey Jeremy, just a last word on a different topic - somewhere here you mention that you're not a very intelligent person...dude, duh!! That's a no-brainer, you wouldn't have contemplated this type of issue in the first place now, would you? Love and Light to you!!

[HiImJeremy]

G'day Christa! Thanks for commenting.

I am actually not surprised about your story here where your neck hurt. Whenever i use the violet fire on my body, it always highlights weak points in my body. My lower back always aches when i use it. It may have been the flame she was using that caused this effect on you. However - if you have not had a prior injury or natural weakness in your neck - then it's possible the healer was the cause of your pain.

Thank you for your end comment. I suppose i never thought of it like that.

I accept your love and light - Thank you

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

The New age movement will often believe anything they read because it's in a book or because someone says it is.

The New age movement? What about Christianity, Islam etc.? It is just the opposite. The New age movement is far more open-minded. The energies of the Age of Aquarius are very different from the energies of the Age Pisces.

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

The Sounds more like a form of social control, a bit like how the christians view hell. You do bad things, bad things are gunna happen to ya.

This is an absolute misunderstanding of the Law of karma. It has nothing in common whatsoever with the Christian concept of eternal perdition.

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

The I've also seen it used as an excuse for people not to help themselves and ease painful situations.

Anything can be misused.

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

The All universal laws can introduce themselves to me when i get there - till then, they don't apply.

Well, you yourself have started this conversation. Or did you mean to exclude those of us who understand the universal laws?

Merrick

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by Christa

... even Jung said that no real, inner transformation can take place except if the person has had a truly transforming, personal experience.

Well, long before Jung the Buddha is reported to have said:

"Do not rely upon what you have heard proclaimed, or upon custom, or upon rumour, or upon scripture, or inference or established principles, or clever reasoning, or favouring a pet theory. Do not be convinced by someone else's apparent intelligence, nor out of respect for a teacher... When you yourself know what is wrong, foolish and unworthy, and what leads to harm and discontent, abandon it... And when you yourself know what is right, develop it."

I've posted this before but it may be good to post it again. So, I don't understand Jeremy what you are getting so cocky about. No one has questioned your right here to say whatever you want to.

Merrick

[HiImJeremy]

Merrick,

Cool quote.

Im confused by how you think i'm being cocky. I merely explained my view and how i personally work things. With your vast knowledge of the universal laws and your confidence in these, my opinions should mean little.

Our views may not coincide, but i think they are both valid. Going against the norm isn't always a popular road - what i've learnt is not to feel bad for thinking differently.

I think at this point it might help the both of us to agree to disagree and to end our communication on this point. I think whatever we've had to say to each other has been quite thoroughly explored. Thank you for your dialogue, it was very helpful.

All the best.

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

I think at this point it might help the both of us to agree to disagree and to end our communication on this point. I think whatever we've had to say to each other has been quite thoroughly explored. Thank you for your dialogue, it was very helpful.

Thanks Jeremy,

I feel the same.

All the best

Merrick

[Christa]

Originally Posted by Merrick1

Well, long before Jung the Buddha is reported to have said:

"Do not rely upon what you have heard proclaimed, or upon custom, or upon rumour, or upon scripture, or inference or established principles, or clever reasoning, or favouring a pet theory. Do not be convinced by someone else's apparent intelligence, nor out of respect for a teacher... When you yourself know what is wrong, foolish and unworthy, and what leads to harm and discontent, abandon it... And when you yourself know what is right, develop it."

Okay...but I don't really see how Jung's theory relates to the words of the Buddha in this quote, Merrick unless it is to elaborate on it by extrapolation? I referred to Jung to elaborate on Jeremy's point that personal experience is very important - to intellectually 'know' (even if it is your unadultered 'truth') doesn't transform, personal experience does.

Anyway, perhaps we've 'lost the thread' now, haha! My experience with the friend's healing wasn't wildly transforming, except for a different understanding of energy dynamics, and for this I'm grateful. It made me aware of the necessity for me to discern... But I have never had problems with doing distance healing for someone without their knowing - I do this for my 1 year old son all the time. I do trust my gut feel though; my solar plexus tells me very quickly what's going for what energetically.

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by Christa

Okay...but I don't really see how Jung's theory relates to the words of the Buddha in this quote, Merrick unless it is to elaborate on it by extrapolation? I referred to Jung to elaborate on Jeremy's point that personal experience is very important - to intellectually 'know' (even if it is your unadultered 'truth') doesn't transform, personal experience does.

Are you saying, Christa, that the Buddha got enlightened by sitting in a library? Why, the whole essence of his teaching is self transformation through personal experience.

Originally Posted by Christa

But I have never had problems with doing distance healing for someone without their knowing - I do this for my 1 year old son all the time. I do trust my gut feel though; my solar plexus tells me very quickly what's going for what energetically.

The mother is a co-creator of the baby's life and she is supposed to give him everything she has. At this time she still may interfere with his life, influence his life with her decisions. But for each decision she is also responsible.

But this is not the same with someone else's baby or an adult. We must let everyone have their right to make their own decisions about their own life. Doing otherwise implies a gross lack of humility. Man should never lower himself to perpetrating "goodnes".

Even the angels whose "job" is to guide and help people are not supposed to help with everything and every time. They too must often wait until the human being asks them for help. For some reason even here a request, a plea, is important.

When there is both the offer and the request, then the healing may become a beautiful ritual where the healing energies coming through the healer join the healing energies coming through the healed as well as his inherent self healing power. Such healing has a very different depth and quality.

(BTW, this is in answer to your post, Christa, with Jeremy we have agreed not to elaborate further as no possibility of a mutual agreement is in sight).

Thanks for the conversation .

Merrick

[Erin Ashley]

I completely agree. :-)