Occult, enochian magic, rituals etc

[Joebenz]

Hi,
I wanted to know what do you guys think about magic, talisman, doing rituals, combining specific words and drawing symbols and everything about that?
Does this actually exist? are there some peaple on this planet doing these kind of things that actually work?

If you ask about that to everyone you know, especially religious peaple, they will say "that's satanic!!!!!" but we really don't know what magic is. This kind of reaction reminds me of crazy monks in the medieval ages. Unknown forces were considered evil. But we now know that they were wrong.
They used to burn everything that was unknown and different from their point of view.

I think that magic is there somewhere and that it is a tool.
For exemple most peaple say "i hate guns!!" but when you're in a dark empty street with a psychopath chasing you, a gun will be your new best friend.
I think that it's the same with magic. It's a tool, we can use it for good but also for doing bad things.

[Midnite]

Answer to your question is Yes.

Generally this field of knowledge is quite secretive and not many people like to publicly announce their magical practices.

I have read multiple books: The Goetia, The Magus, The Book of Sacred Magic of Abremelim the Mage, The Lesser key of Solomon, and also a few books by Lon Milo Duqette (OTO Grandmaster).

You could say magick is a tool. A tool that takes years and years of practise, numerous rare and difficult magickal instruments and the memory of God himself (The sheer length of some orisons and chants are enough to deter the most eager of initiates...). I would call it more of an entire belief system. Keeping in mind it is a system that is very old, and is not something to be taken lightly.

It is of no coincidence that nearly all of those books has a dedicated opening chapter to the complete belief in only God. God is the source of power to any practicing magician. More importantly; God is the only thing there to protect you, if things get dicey...
Those books are not necessarily about 'worshipping Satan'. Everybody knows that Satan is only one of the Demon Princes (there are also many numerous others - just as good) LOL {inside joke}.

There are entire organisations centred around these very practices, such as the OTO. There are also numerous smaller groups who practise Enochian, as this can be a very visual. There are however, many who simply don't believe in magick and there are even more people who are too scarred to find out. What it comes down to are your personal beliefs and your ability to accept that there are powers in this universe very secretive and also very dark.


~~ Deleted ~~

My guides told me to get rid of that story because, I quote "it deters people from their path of spirituality, instead of encouraging them". Something about how I should be giving people words of wisdom instead of scaring them out of their wits... lol

[Joebenz]

Wow that's creepy. What happened to him remind me of something "what goes around, comes back around"

But we can use it for good.. right? for exemple attracting something you want, healing a friend of an illness...

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by Joebenz

Wow that's creepy. What happened to him remind me of something "what goes around, comes back around"

But we can use it for good.. right? for exemple attracting something you want, healing a friend of an illness...

Something like that.

It can be used for good, however you are much better suited to go practise Reiki healing, or chakra allignment if you want to heal people.

If you want to attract something you want, find out more about intention and manifestation.

[SethWilliams]

Yes, ceremonial magick is more trouble then its worth.

Better to stick with more spiritual practises if you want to live a more joyful and happy life.

The magick you describe is just one small system. There are powers and entities much easier to get in contact with and work with.

[lookcloser]

Originally Posted by SethWilliams

Yes, ceremonial magick is more trouble then its worth.

Why do you think so?
"Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." said Crowley, and as far as I've read by 'will' he means our 'true will'. Or the will of our higher self.

So if you abide by that law, why would it get you into trouble?

I don't intend to argue, I'm just curious. I'm new at this too so I want to know people's opinions on it.

[Midnite]

Originally Posted by lookcloser

Why do you think so?
"Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." said Crowley, and as far as I've read by 'will' he means our 'true will'. Or the will of our higher self.

So if you abide by that law, why would it get you into trouble?

I don't intend to argue, I'm just curious. I'm new at this too so I want to know people's opinions on it.

There are some entities that just don't want to be summoned... period. In fact, they can actually get quite angry when you do.

You can have the most innocent and pure intentions in the world. And you wont get anywhere with the Goetia. It is quite well known that you need to be in such a negative state of mindframe, that you yourself need to mimic the emotions of the demons before they will come. By the time you have managed that, you will be at a far worse mental place in your life.

Beyond the fact that unless you have some exquisite protection pentagrams, that demon is gunna come after you..

If you're talking about Enochian, then I guess it's a different story. Then again you do have to create all kinds of weird magickal cubes, and find 3 other people to do it with you (Overseer, interpreter, performer, etc).
It's like, C'mon people! Just astral travel! All you need to do is go to bed...

[lookcloser]

Originally Posted by Midnite

There are some entities that just don't want to be summoned... period. In fact, they can actually get quite angry when you do.

You can have the most innocent and pure intentions in the world. And you wont get anywhere with the Goetia. It is quite well known that you need to be in such a negative state of mindframe, that you yourself need to mimic the emotions of the demons before they will come. By the time you have managed that, you will be at a far worse mental place in your life.

Beyond the fact that unless you have some exquisite protection pentagrams, that demon is gunna come after you..

If you're talking about Enochian, then I guess it's a different story. Then again you do have to create all kinds of weird magickal cubes, and find 3 other people to do it with you (Overseer, interpreter, performer, etc).
It's like, C'mon people! Just astral travel! All you need to do is go to bed...

It's not a MUST to summon demons is it? Some parts of ceremonial magick, like Theurgy doesn't require you to summon negative entities. High magick seems like a relatively safe endeavor IMHO, Because I would NEVER bother to get involved in anything to do with demons. But I want to explore other aspects of that world, all the while growing spiritually. Its where metaphysics meets spirituality.
Actually I'm not quiet sure what it is. But for whatever reason I am very drawn to the subject, and I'm just following my intuition.
But I get what you mean. A lot of Crowley's stuff SO doesn't resonate with me. It feels a little off.

[SethWilliams]

Originally Posted by lookcloser

Why do you think so?
"Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." said Crowley, and as far as I've read by 'will' he means our 'true will'. Or the will of our higher self.

So if you abide by that law, why would it get you into trouble?

I don't intend to argue, I'm just curious. I'm new at this too so I want to know people's opinions on it.

Ceremonial magick can be very powerful. It can also take years to learn, and very hard to get initiated into the right circles etc.

But the innate power to get magick to work isnt in the ritual or the ceremony. Its in the mage/person/you.

And demons, whatever they are, I dont want in my life. Period.

OF course, ive never tried enochian magick. Seems like a lot of work to get in touch with some angels.

Crowely was an interesting man. And gave a lot to the growth of magick. ( In modern times anyway)

[elucidate]

Some people like to use all the trimmings and ceremony, and that's fine, but I don't personally think it's necessary.

The heart and mind, Will and emotions are what are necessary for any spell work and they are all inside the person, they don't require any specific external rituals...a spell is the same as a prayer, it's where your intention is directed that is all important, and it can be spoken out loud or in your mind, as long as the emotional force is there to drive it home.

Crowley may have contributed to the world of Magick in some way (though I am still trying to figure out how exactly?) but he was also someone who liked to gather false power by way of scaring people into thinking he was more powerful than he actually was. He was definitely an individual though, and quite unique in his expression of that individuality.

He was, after all, more inclined towards the Black Arts, and some of his earlier 'experiments' involved rather cruel incidents, like when he decided to kill a cat in nine different ways to test whether cats really did have nine lives or not! He was dark, and these days, a modern psychologist would probably have diagnosed him as having a classic serial killer profile...though I think he was more about shocking than actually being murderous at heart.

He was a pioneer in the sense that he chose to go against his strict Plymouth Brethren upbringing, and indulge in all things "sinful" and decadent, and he was alive at a time where people were much more naive, and knew how to shock people, thus earning himself a reputation for being somewhat notorious.

I think he was a very dramatic person, inclined towards acting, which can be a useful skill for ceremonial magick, and people who practise it use that drama to propel their spells. I also consider him to be a bit of a wanker myself, but that's just my opinion.

[SethWilliams]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Some people like to use all the trimmings and ceremony, and that's fine, but I don't personally think it's necessary.

The heart and mind, Will and emotions are what are necessary for any spell work and they are all inside the person, they don't require any specific external rituals...a spell is the same as a prayer, it's where your intention is directed that is all important, and it can be spoken out loud or in your mind, as long as the emotional force is there to drive it home.

Crowley may have contributed to the world of Magick in some way (though I am still trying to figure out how exactly?) but he was also someone who liked to gather false power by way of scaring people into thinking he was more powerful than he actually was. He was definitely an individual though, and quite unique in his expression of that individuality.

He was, after all, more inclined towards the Black Arts, and some of his earlier 'experiments' involved rather cruel incidents, like when he decided to kill a cat in nine different ways to test whether cats really did have nine lives or not! He was dark, and these days, a modern psychologist would probably have diagnosed him as having a classic serial killer profile...though I think he was more about shocking than actually being murderous at heart.

He was a pioneer in the sense that he chose to go against his strict Plymouth Brethren upbringing, and indulge in all things "sinful" and decadent, and he was alive at a time where people were much more naive, and knew how to shock people, thus earning himself a reputation for being somewhat notorious.

I think he was a very dramatic person, inclined towards acting, which can be a useful skill for ceremonial magick, and people who practise it use that drama to propel their spells. I also consider him to be a bit of a wanker myself, but that's just my opinion.

But a very agreeable opinion that is.

[Richful]

There's also Chaos magic too. If you step back from the White magic and Black magic paradigm you just get magic as a tool. Chaos magic stripped back all the ceremony and hierarchies and just used what worked. The focus is on the practical results.

[Joebenz]

Originally Posted by Richful

There's also Chaos magic too. If you step back from the White magic and Black magic paradigm you just get magic as a tool. Chaos magic stripped back all the ceremony and hierarchies and just used what worked. The focus is on the practical results.

The fact that there is the word "chaos" in it doesn't reassure me very much
but i like that they only take what works. They go straight to the point, just like i do in everyday life.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Richful

There's also Chaos magic too. If you step back from the White magic and Black magic paradigm you just get magic as a tool. Chaos magic stripped back all the ceremony and hierarchies and just used what worked. The focus is on the practical results.

I am more attracted to the concept of chaos magick than other systems, especially the whole white vs. Black thing, which I find totally ridiculous.

Anyone serious about magick will know that the witch has both sides to her/him, and therefore it is more about the intent behind each individual spell.

Intent is all...it has nothing to do with white=good and black=bad, and everything to do with whether the individual is going to a dark place with their intent or a lighter place...but both exist inside the person. You just might want to weigh up the consequences beforehand, and of course, take responsability for anything that goes wrong.

[Midnite]

Don't be frightened by the name "Chaos Magick", its practically as harmless as intention and manifestation. Its just a more advanced method, with some basic rituals attached, and a really sweet name.

The name 'Chaos' Magick actually stemmed from Chaos theory; or the application of a model that allows for small incomprehensible effects that spiral out of control into something much larger. Like the butterfly effect. However their paradigm suggests these spiralling of events can somewhat be determined or 'controlled' through their practices.

If you ask me, it's not exactly a very fun or powerful form of magick. Though having a lot of benefits, it is really limited to the power of the practitioner and often resulting in similar results across the board.

I always thought invoking Angels, Demons, Spirits and other ultraterrestrial beings was far more interesting. Reason being, is that the power is no longer only centred on the magician, but now also incorporates the abilities and powers of the entity your summoned.

Aleister Crowley became famous not for his torturing of animals or reputable wicked nature, but more closer to the fact that he believed he was the reincarnation of Ankh-fn-Khonsu; an ancient Egyptian Priest who performed Thelema. He then proceeded to contribute to the world of Magick by reproducing a number of very powerful and sacred techniques from books that were considered either lost of very rare.
I am of the belief that whilst travelling to Egypt to 'discover' his roots in magick, he did in fact perform a very sacred and absolutely forbidden technique that allowed him to control demons. In such a technique, through the authority of your Guardian Angel, the practitioner literally forces demonic beings to their presence, which I can only describe as like turning on a flashlight into Hell itself, and saying "Hey, where the hell is everybody? Come up here and join the club!".
Failing at the full extent of the technique, the practitioner will however not be alone as I'm sure a bunch of other wonderful ghoulies would like to stick around and see what happens next.

This is probably why he had such a mean attitude and always wanted to be alone. Can't really blame him..

Magick does endevour to increase your spiritual growth. A lot of the training techniques are centred around Yoga, Meditation, Pranayama and vasts amounts of spiritual knowledge. Even if you never want to perform any of the rituals, it is indeed an extremely interesting field of study.

[Merrick1]

I will only just repeat what I have said before: "The highest magic is Love." And all the other magics have their confluence in this supreme one.

Merrick