Time travel, changing the past with an OBE?

[Deicide]

I know that with an astral projection a person can back in time or see the future. But could be possible change the past or transfer consciousness to another timeline?. Maybe lucid dreaming could help?

[desertrat]

I have heard of time travel in a.p. , but I dont know about changing the past either. desert rat

[bluestar]

I had a time-slip experience while out of body (ages ago) ie finding myself in a different time reality. But I didn't really do much, except notice things, so have no idea what changes I might have made on that "past" or "future" I found myself in.
But I feel that every single move we make causes change of one kind or another....the ramifications of those changes I don't understand.

[Child of God]

Time is just a human invention and does not really exist (The same is true with space). So in that sense no, you can not change the past, because the past simply is.

However this does not mean you cannot effect the past. People pray for the future, so why not pray for the past?

Let me give you an example, I have a friend who likes to meditate by running. He asked me to pray that he would have a good run. I then decided that I was going to pray later that night and chose what I was going to pray for (But I did not pray). I talked to him after his run and he told me that it was amazing and that he had received all of these revelations (The same things I had decided to pray for, but had not yet prayed for). Later that night I prayed that he would have a good meditation during his run.

So yes, you can interact with the past during your OBE, but your interactions are part of the past.

[wstein]

Yes you can affect the past and you can visit and affect alternate timelines using very advanced OBE techniques.

Time travel is very tricky business and difficult to get desirable results when changing things. Though you will change your past, you will not change your memories of the past.

True that time is not what most people think it to be, but that does not matter. The changes will be integrated in the same way that the original events were. Whatever you called the original timeline the same term applies to the altered timeline, 'past’ is as good a word as any.

[Anthony1973]

I believe that consciousness (being on the quantum level) can negate our perception of time. However there would be no reason to expect that changes can be made to the past or future. Child of god is showing insight into the 'no time' debate, I would say there is but one time reference and that is now. The past present and future are all one, co existing at the quantum level.
Time is useful for getting things done which is why it affects us as it does, at the quantum level there is no time, there is also no form as we understand it leaving the question just what could consciousness change?

[HiImJeremy]

You cannot change anything in the Astral Plane. This is the place of already created thought forms. By my understanding you cannot alter history in this place, and you cannot alter the future in the Astral either. It is more of an oberserver deck. You can look at just about anything you want.

In the physical you can alter the future, you have free will choice.

This is why no healing occurs on the Astral plane. Because nothing can be altered, it is already created.

The Mental Planes and mental projection is where healing usually takes place. the common healer will access this vibration. Remember that disease will often come through what we are thinking, and in that way we create it due to our negativity in some form. The Causal Plane is the next plane up and that is where higher vibrational healing takes place. The Shaman lives basically full time in this plane. Akashic records can be accessed her as well. They can probs be found in other planes as well.

From there you have the Buddic Plane ( Shamans Journey in this plane), Atmic(Ascended Masters reside here), Monadic and Logoic. Bit much to write here. To even reach the Causal plane is a feat. Jesus, Buddah, the enlightened will reach up to the Atmic Planes. Very high vibrational.

Back on track. Can you imagine if anybody were able to change what was in the Astral Plane? So much suffering could come as a result of any changes made there. This is why it is a place of no changes. Only observing. IF we could change it, any old person could do anything to us. Now i personally don't like that thought. If we really could change it, WW2 would have been stopped and uncreated, or maybe it could have been supplied with millions more troops etc and we would be ruled by Germany at this time.

This anyway, is the point of view of my shamanic teacher. Please don't hold me to all of it if you dont agree.

Though there is a couple other things. All of these planes are within you. Some may have trouble understanding that, but life is so full of opposites. It still difficult for me to get my head around.

And the other thing. People mention an etheric plane. Etheric just means ' not visible to the physical eye' So all bodies or Planes of existence above the physical are etheric. Also some mention a Pranic body. This is life force energy, chi, vital breath call it what you will. All bodies/Planes have This energy as well.

Take what you like and use it otherwise ditch the rest! I find when many people on this forum dont agree their opinions must be brought to the attention of everyone on the thread. It's not a competition.

Hope this helped in some way! Good luck with your Projectin'! might see ya around

[wstein]

Originally Posted by HiImJeremy

You cannot change anything in the Astral Plane. This is the place of already created thought forms. By my understanding you cannot alter history in this place, and you cannot alter the future in the Astral either. It is more of an oberserver deck. You can look at just about anything you want.

In the physical you can alter the future, you have free will choice

Regarding this place, you do have free will but because there is no time as such, it also has all played out. You already exercised your free will. Your normally limited time view prevents you from knowing what you will choose in the ‘future’.

[HiImJeremy]

Good Point Wstein, i see what you mean here.

I haven't gone and seen my own future in the Astral Planes. perhaps on another level in another place another facet of my soul has already lived out this very same life and taken a whole different route to get to the end. But because i haven't made a free will choice about where im going i don't think i have personally created my exact future yet. It's still unknown to me, and thank goodness for that.

But good point still!

[lostintime]

Wstein - I am very interested to hear more about the 'advanced OBE techniques' you mentioned. Do you know of any books/documents/information that could help me research this further? Feel free to drop me an email - bnjaffiliates@aol.com - I would be very grateful, thanks.

[wstein]

Basically, any of the known OBE techniques can be used to get out of body. The key is to learn to control where you go afterwards. Most techniques focus on only going to the Astral planes, but travel to all sorts of ‘places’ is possible. This is mostly down to intent and focus (energy work experience helps also). Did I mention practice, practice, practice?

I know of two sources of reliable information for beginner and middle OBE technique:

Robert Bruce’s work Astral Dynamics (books and web site) – grounded in classical Astral Travel, very good coverage at getting out of body, very extensive coverage on dealing with problems. This body of work lacks in 2 areas: how to travel to non–local places (beyond Astral Planes) and being able to remember after returning. Also covers helpful energy techniques (known as NEW)

Robert Monroe’s work on phasing – this is mental projection and very close to what I use. There is good coverage on going to different kinds of destinations. The main weakness is that tends to use Hemisync as a crutch (not actually required), this allows quicker results but limits you to places where programs have been developed. If you have never done OBE you might use Hemisync to get started but I recommend getting off of it as soon as you learn to travel on your own. A minor problem is dealing with split awareness takes some getting use to. I consider his technique harder to master but much more flexible and reliable.

[Alstar]

wstein, how are you defining "astral planes" and what are the other "places" to be explored? Can you describe them, attach any labels, describe how to get there, etc. ?

[lostintime]

Thanks Wstein - I'm aware of both of those guys, but I'll check them out thoroughly. Thanks again.

[lostintime]

Wstein, one more question: have you actually managed to affect anything in the past/access an alternate timeline?

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Alstar

wstein, how are you defining "astral planes" and what are the other "places" to be explored

From my understanding (haven’t been there): The ‘Astral Planes’ are very specific planes ‘near’ to the this universe and are the most common first destination for those who travel in a linear manner from here. They are well described in literature. I believe there are 7 planes, each has specific characteristics and specific kinds of native creatures. Roughly, the ‘lower’ planes have animals and the ‘higher’ planes have advanced energy beings. Planes in between are a natural progression in between. When seen from ‘outside’ the Astral Planes have a characteristic repeating abstract geometric pattern. Most travelers learn to enter the lowest one and move up one by one to the one they want. Its possible to enter any one directly. The geography of the Astral Planes is relatively fixed allowing repeated visits. For reasons unknown to me most untrained people (children) visit the Astral Planes.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Alstar

what are the other "places" to be explored? Can you describe them, attach any labels, describe how to get there, etc. ?

I cannot give any names or direction to these other places. I travel to specific places by setting my intent; for instance “I want to visit the creator of this universe”.

Other times I get out of body to wander around in other dimensions/planes, I follow what appears to be a network tubes with spherical nodes where they join. I cannot say for sure what kind of sight is required to visualize but most people I have taken OBE saw them in a similar manner (copious amounts of metaphysical energy helps a lot with this). Note that they are not actually tubes per se but rather ‘places’ with more substance appear more opaque. In a fractal like manner, interesting places tend to be situated near each other in strands. Just like within this universe, large stretches are nearly empty. Stopping in the nodes greatly increases the chances of something interesting.

Occasionally, I travel in hyperspace which is a view across alternate realities. The visuals of hyperspace travel is extremely well described in Richard Bach’s book ‘One’ (he uses fictional method). Alternate realities are laid out in a so that nearly identical realities are next to each other. If you travel at very high speeds, it takes on a quite pretty patchwork quilt appearance.

Types of destinations I have personally visited with advanced OBE: other dimensions, alternate universes, quantum level (small), my other incarnations, my oversoul’s memories, the circles in the Jewish tree of life, visit the creator of this universe (the Farmer), beyond existence (to unrealized potential and consciousness), near the ONENESS.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by lostintime

Wstein, one more question: have you actually managed to affect anything in the past/access an alternate timeline?

As to alternate timelines I have not done much other than visit. Though my presence had some effect, it was minimal.

I have managed very limited changes in this universe by traveling back in time to the potential of this universe before time began. Though I had an unbelievably small impact on the potential, the butterfly effect after billions of years was very concrete and demonstratable. The only thing I can do on demand is as follows. If I am trapped behind a slow driver on a narrow road with no passing for miles, I can get the driver in front of me to turn at the next possible safe turn. The method requires them actually be going somewhere specific, it does not work on people sightseeing or wandering. The trick is to move where their destination has always been such that it is now at the next turn off. As that’s where they are going they naturally turn there (and get out from in front of me). I have taught others to do this. I have had little success in applying the technique to other things If you figure that out, let me know.

[Alstar]

wstein, how do you travel if not through astral projection? Which methods do you use?

Just to clarify; You've never been in the astral, not even in passing, not even as a stepping stone to some place higher up?

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Alstar

wstein, how do you travel if not through astral projection? Which methods do you use?

I developed my own form of mental projection. As I found out many years later, it is very similar to Robert Monroe’s phasing. Basically I build a huge bubble of energy around me, break it loose of the local universe, and push it out and beyond. In astral projection, one creates a double. In mental projection, no double is created so you get two streams of sensory information at the same time in your physical body. It can be confusing, so a quiet earthly environment helps.

Originally Posted by Alstar

Just to clarify; You've never been in the astral, not even in passing, not even as a stepping stone to some place higher up?

I can’t be 100% sure, I've been to many places of which I know the names of none. I have read a lot about astral travel in the last few years. I do not recognize any of the locations described nor any of the beings that reside there.

Something that could potentially make advanced OBE a lot easier is to realize that there are no ‘higher’ anything. Some ‘places’ are ‘closer’ meaning that they are easier to get to. Ease of access does not relate to what you will find there.

The mindset limitation built into classical astral travel is the concept that you are traveling in ‘space’. I refer to accessing my oversoul’s memories which is in another axis (direction) of travel entirely. Consciousness is not limited to traveling in space or even to existence. Once you let go of only moving in space, multitudes of possibilities open up.

[Dabaia]

hello, I really need to physically change the past. I've read on magick forum thaat it's possible to do it by means of the akasha.

I think that it's possible that OBE's or Astal Projection can also allow it. I ead somewhenre that Robert Brouce mentioned somewhere in his writings that tavelling to the past was useful to help others.. maybe to change things?

Thanks for the interesting topic, keep it up, please

[wstein]

Although I have seen the past being changed in movies by magick, I have never heard of any actual practitioners managing it.

The akasha is simply a recording of the past, as such I am not aware that it can be directly changed.

Traveling to the past to find information or to review past events can be very helpful. Usually knowing what actually happened and what caused a past incident is a good portion of healing any damage caused by it (this can be gotten from akasha).

[Joebenz]

How about for exemple, you have an astral projection on the 21st feb 2011.
Then you have another projection on 15th april 2021 and you go back to 21st feb 2011 at the exact place where you had your astral projection. At that moment, can you interact with your past projection?

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Joebenz

How about for example, you have an astral projection on the 21st feb 2011.
Then you have another projection on 15th April 2021 and you go back to 21st feb 2011 at the exact place where you had your astral projection. At that moment, can you interact with your past projection?

Yes, but it won’t change your memory of the 15th where there was only one of you.

[Joebenz]

Originally Posted by wstein

Yes, but it won’t change your memory of the 15th where there was only one of you.

That's interesting. Because a few months ago, i was in a state where i was half asleep and half awake (most peaple think that in that moment, we are in the astral but not out of body) and someone invisible was holding my hand. I asked "who are you?" and it touched my face and a thought came suddenly in mind that said "I am you".
I wonder if it has something to do you a future self in astral form or something..

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Joebenz

That's interesting. Because a few months ago, i was in a state where i was half asleep and half awake and someone invisible was holding my hand. I asked "who are you?" and it touched my face and a thought came suddenly in mind that said "I am you".
I wonder if it has something to do you a future self in astral form or something..

Indeed interesting. ‘You’ come in many other forms, it’s hard to know what alternate/other part of you touched your face. As this sort of thing happens more, you will begin to recognize which aspect(s) of yourself is with you.

[Midnite]

That is very interesting.

I have two things I need to clear up:

Firstly is it possible for somebody to either astral travel or 'separate' from their body by whatever means, where they have more than one 'separation'. For example; Is it possible for 1 human being to have 2 or more etheral or astral travelling counterparts?

Secondly, how is it that a person can astral travel, or separate from their body, to actually physically appear back here on Earth, in their present form, on the other side of the planet?

My father was in hospital with a severe sickness, and was given less than 6 months to live. While my mother, sister and I were having coffee one day, a strange man walked up to our table. This man looked very old (white hair and very pale skin) but somehow extremely familiar.
He said "Hello, excuse me but I need to tell you something. I have just come to let you know that your husband isn't going to die. So don't worry anymore".
He then looked at my sister and said "And you... little miss, are going to be a doctor!"
He then said goodbye and walked off into the crowd and disappeared.

As we sat there thinking about what just happened. We realised he had looked exactly like my father, as if another 30 years older. That he must have 'come back' from the future to pass on a message.

My father did end up living. My sister at the time was doing a psychology degree. But years later went back to study medicine and is now a doctor.

I also have another story when we were on a holiday in Canada. One night, a very powerful family member literally walked through the hotel room wall, with a magnificent display of white blinding light, to pass on a message to us. That family member was residing in Singapore.
But sadly he has now passed on, making it very difficult to answer my abovementioned question.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Midnite

Firstly is it possible for somebody to either astral travel or 'separate' from their body by whatever means, where they have more than one 'separation'. For example; Is it possible for 1 human being to have 2 or more ethereal or astral travelling counterparts?

This is possible but very rare. Most people struggle to create even one separation for any length of time.

Originally Posted by Midnite

Secondly, how is it that a person can astral travel, or separate from their body, to actually physically appear back here on Earth, in their present form, on the other side of the planet? ... As we sat there thinking about what just happened. We realized he had looked exactly like my father, as if another 30 years older. That he must have 'come back' from the future to pass on a message....

You did not indicate any physical touch. With enough energy, the projected part of a person can appear completely solid without having much physical substance. If you are energy sensitive, the projector may appear solid and fully formed to you but not to others. Note that while a projector normally appears as they do in physical life, it is very possible to take on any appearance.

Also a telepathic interaction can seem real and even overlay on normal senses (seem to appear in a crowd for instance). Obviously, only 1 or 2 people are going to perceive the person in these cases.

There are also many obscure and advanced possibilities including but not limited to bi-location, dimensional travel, trips from alternate realities, actual time travel, joint visioning, lucid dreaming or even lucid while awake, and advanced energy being imitating your father.

[Midnite]

wstein thank you for your response.

It was much helpful.

How is it possible for people to travel through photographs of themselves, and by what method of travel would they be using?


Midnite

[Pietko]

Most interesting... Time travel by projection or by sending informations(memory) to past... maybe that can explain Déjà vu experiences... And I have them quite often... like yesterday I was in laboratory with my college and while he made Mg(NO3)2 solution from MgCO3 and HNO3, I was hit with multiple Déjà vu feelings - that was strange, it was like feeling that I saw that 3 times but with slightly different outcome... If you understand what I want express - it was like memory of three more different timelines. But maybe this is only an illusion.

I remember a few points in my past when I experienced some strange conscience shifts... it felt as merging with something elusive, and every time it felt as consciousness expansion...

I try miscelanous experiments while out of body, maybe time travel experiments are relatively succesfull. If it is so, I have only send as much informations as possible back in time, informations about OBE techniques, feelings, experiences etc. so I create next timeline where I will have more control of what I'm doing...

I certainly don't have problems described :
Déjà vu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia even if memory based explanations are quite possible...

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Midnite

How is it possible for people to travel through photographs of themselves, and by what method of travel would they be using?

I saw that in a recent time travel movie. I am not familiar with that technique. Other than serve as a focus I cannot guess