Is astral projection dangerous?

[theuprising]

Just read this from Erin Pavlina's blog:

Remember, kids, you must always astral travel safely. You don’t want to bring something back with you. You don’t want to encourage entities to hover around you while you’re awake, leeching and sucking off your considerable energy. And you don’t want to become so enamored with astral projection that you forget to sleep and let your body and mind restore itself. But for occasional use, it’s just fine.

Happy and safe traveling!

Like what kind of entities?? That's scary, how do you discourage them from attaching to you? Or coming any where near me for that matter. I remember Erin saying something like imaging a white light coming from you and pulverizing lesser entetities, or something.

Also, how do you get to that "relaxed" state to start to astral project, the only time I got close was when I become conscious while dreaming/sleeping, which doesn't honestly happen every night (its happening much less since I began to become more open to different realities)

[wstein]

Astral travel can be scary in many ways.

Often when just getting out of your body there are scary creatures around (looking like the stuff of nightmares) who are attracted by your energy.

There are many new and unfamiliar beings (and animals) that you can meet. Some of them follow you around.

Further suddenly becoming aware that there is more than the space-time continuum is not something your world view may be ready to accept.

Many travelers also fear not being able to get back. Some see this ‘silver cord’ between their physical body and traveler’s body which they fear if it gets cut, they will die.

Yes, all of these things can be scary but other than the fear are not dangerous.

Robert Bruce (author, has web forum) is a worldwide expert on Astral Travel and covers all these issues as well as giving practical step by step instructions on how to do it. He says there are few if any dangers.

[theuprising]

Originally Posted by wstein

Astral travel can be scary in many ways.

Often when just getting out of your body there are scary creatures around (looking like the stuff of nightmares) who are attracted by your energy.

There are many new and unfamiliar beings (and animals) that you can meet. Some of them follow you around.

Further suddenly becoming aware that there is more than the space-time continuum is not something your world view may be ready to accept.

Many travelers also fear not being able to get back. Some see this ‘silver cord’ between their physical body and traveler’s body which they fear if it gets cut, they will die.

Yes, all of these things can be scary but other than the fear are not dangerous.

Robert Bruce (author, has web forum) is a worldwide expert on Astral Travel and covers all these issues as well as giving practical step by step instructions on how to do it. He says there are few if any dangers.

I don't know some people say its really dangerous while others have a more positive view like you. How do people get possessed if demons aren't dangerous??

[Joebenz]

Well i've heard that to get possessed, you have to allow them to "get in". That's what happens most times with wouija boards. Sometime you can hear a little voice saying "can i come?" and you should say a big "NO". i don't know if it's true. I've never tried it and i certainly won't try it.

As for astral projections, when i meditate and stay relaxed and thoughtless for an hour or more, i can feel these sort of "vibrations" and i have a feeling of being light like a feather. I never got past that stage but i am sure that i'm on the right track.
That's my experience so maybe it could be different for you.
And also i am using binaural beats wich helps alot.
My only advice is try multiple times and see.

[Summerbreeze]

If it would be a simple mechanism to possess a body, there would be a lot of possessed people, because while you are dreaming, you are out of the body too.

~sb

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by theuprising

Just read this from Erin Pavlina's blog:



Like what kind of entities?? That's scary, how do you discourage them from attaching to you? Or coming any where near me for that matter. I remember Erin saying something like imaging a white light coming from you and pulverizing lesser entetities, or something.

Also, how do you get to that "relaxed" state to start to astral project, the only time I got close was when I become conscious while dreaming/sleeping, which doesn't honestly happen every night (its happening much less since I began to become more open to different realities)

When we Journey, our spirits move through alternate realities like a glowing beacon of light. This beacon attracts all kinds of other energetic beings who inhabit or travel through those realities as well.

I will strongly disagree with anyone who claims that there is nothing dangerous about the beings in these alternate realities. MOST of these entities are non-threatening (at least in my experience) but not ALL. And in fact, many are quite willing to aid us in whatever way we ask. Some will ask a return favor, some will not. It all depends on the entity in question.

Those that are threatening are like predators or parasites. They seek out and feed off of our energy. The threats they pose can range from extremely dangerous to simply marginally annoying.

Focusing your Intent on protecting yourself prior to any kind of Tonal/Spiritual separation is the most common method of protecting oneself that I have encountered. This focus can be as simple as "envisioning yourself wrapped in a white light that only lets "good" energy approach you" to as complex as a multiple-day ceremony with intensive prayer, cleansing, fasting and the use of various plant allies.

The level of protection you utilize needs to be directly proportionate to your Intent behind the Journey to begin with. I don't support Journeying without specific Intent (usually tied to Healing or some other service to The People). Just doing it "for fun" is like taking recreational drugs. It really affords you nothing and the risks far outweigh the benefits.

But, these are all just my opinions, so - as always - take them if they serve you, discard them if they don't.

[wstein]

I have never heard of anyone encountering a demon in the RTZ or Astral planes. It is possible to encounter them at any time including while out of body. Astral travel is not known to attract demons. Unsurprisingly, almost all entities encountered by beginning Astral travelers are from the lower Astral Planes (not demons). These lower entities are interested in your energy and do not possess you.

Depending on the type, demons are a little to extremely dangerous. If you got demon troubles, Astral travel is the least of your worries. You should attend to demon first.

Demons and other entities (including strong humans) can overpower you and possess you without your permission. This is way more difficult for them if you resist or take preventative action. Basically a similar pattern to physical attacks by other humans. Most weak entities (and demons) can be easily stopped with minimal protection. They tend to move on to easier targets if they encounter any immediate significant resistance. Usually any entity (or demon) will attach and feed off your energy for a long time before any attempts to possess you. The ones you need be REALLY concerned about are very rare and almost always attack for specific reasons (not because you are learning to Astral Travel). I was attacked once by a black demon (not during Astral Travel) because I was lead to one of its energy collecting (from people) gatherings by someone not very aware. Still, it only happened after I had been isolated by 3 followers and had held them off for over an hour (not that hard). Though very difficult, I escaped the demon without any injuries.

[Summerbreeze]

Hi wstein,

wouldn't you instinctively call for help?
Did you hear of someone killing an entity like a demon all alone?

~sb

[wstein]

FYI this discussion about demons is off topic (not related to Astral Travel) and I am only answering here in direct response to the question. If anyone has more questions about demons please start another thread.

It was one of those self-help seminar introduction nights. It was held in an office building entirely occupied by the organization. At first there did not seem to be any danger, just a bunch of high pressure sales tactics. When I became aware of the demon’s presence, my instinct was to shield and get out. I erected the most powerful emergency shield I could, found the friend who had brought me, and made a retreat from the building within a minute or two. They made no attempt to physically hold me. The three people had escorted me to a smaller room just off the main room. There were a couple dozen other invitees in the main room, this may have had something to do with it.

Perhaps you meant non-physical help. I did not have any friendly entities effective in helping me in these sort of matters.

I have not heard of anyone killing a demon of that power alone. The best exorcists I have heard of only could have driven it away and possible kept it from coming back. As it was on its home turf, even that would be unlikely.

[AngelPsychic444]

Here's something that might help with astral projection...there's a pendant:

Natures-blessings :: Astral Travel Orgone Pendant and Elixir

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by AngelPsychic444

Here's something that might help with astral projection...there's a pendant:

Natures-blessings :: Astral Travel Orgone Pendant and Elixir

External focci have their places I suppose, but it is too easy to become dependant on them or to think that they are "necessary" to separate your energy body from your tonal body.

In the beginning, they can help focus the Intent, but I would caution against relying on them too much or putting too much of your own personal Power in them.

Remember, they are tools only. Each person has the ability to do this without ANY external aid. I believe that people should practice this skill with as little external assistance as possible, constantly striving to improve their own internal focus.

This is how we become Strong.

[MasterRishi]

I would say first off that being afraid of something else stealing or leaching your energy would only be scary if you didn't realize that the energy that you have is infinite. It's hard to steal too much of something that never goes away. I don't think it's right to promote fear in the area of astral projection. It just feels wrong. It's like the kindergarten of spiritual and energetic experiences, when it comes right down to it. Imagine filling your child with fear about going to kindergarten to learn new things.

That's not to discount the experiences you can have during AP or to say that it's just child's play, but looking at our energetic potential and the things that can be done with our psychic energy (psychokinesis, telepathy, teleportation, levitation, etc.), it is one of the first steps you can take in discovering your full potential. Danger is really in the mind of the person performing the act, when it comes down to it. The stunts that motocross guys do for New Years could be thought of as dangerous, but if you ask those guys, they'll tell you it's just fun. So think of it as a fun and exciting experience and there's nothing to fear.

The act of astral projection is simply your energetic body leaving your physical body behind for a while. There will still be a connection while you're gone, you wont get lost, if something happens requiring your attention you'll be brought back, and no there's usually not some malevolent being waiting to take a chomp out of you or possess you as soon as you leave. There are those entities that will be attracted to you like a moth to a lightbulb, but they aren't any more affective at stealing anything from you than the moth is capable of stealing light from the bulb.

Again, the source of your energetic body is the source of all creation. This source is infinite, so your energy also is infinite. There's nothing to fear from something "stealing" your energy unless you aren't aware of this. But now that you know, you know there's nothing to fear. Hey, you might even wanna start giving it away. If you feel someone or something trying to steal your energy, send them a flood. Don't worry, there's plenty more where it came from.

I'm interested in the off-topic discussion about demons as well. I have had an experience where I exorcised myself from an especially dark entity. Of course, it wasn't until sharing this with others in the spiritual community that I realized how shocking this was and exceedingly rare, in fact unheard of. It was interesting experience to say the very least. As far as inviting them in, I've never heard of a case of possession where the demon did not have permission to enter, even at the most basic subconscious level of willpower. It is possible for them to violate your will and overpower you, but it's easier for them to work on breaking down your defenses and then sneaking in when they have the opportunity.

I've had the occasion of dispensing of many demonic energies outside of myself and in others as well. My first demonic experience was when I was 8, that should have been a clue as to how things would go for me in the long run. I actually find myself walking towards these entities now rather than away from them. It gets me an interesting reaction from them. So there are some of us capable of doing it by ourselves, it's just very rare and requires a great deal of faith and practice, and you don't find too many people going out of their way to "practice" confronting demons.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by MasterRishi

I would say first off that being afraid of something else stealing or leaching your energy would only be scary if you didn't realize that the energy that you have is infinite. It's hard to steal too much of something that never goes away.

Energy may be infintie, but the amount that our physical bodies may contain IS limited.

I once took a vacation with my family down to Florida to visit my mother. On the way to the beach one day, we stopped by a local dime store and picked up some sand castle toys for my 7 year-old daughter so that we could play in the sand.

It was a beautiful day and to be honest, I was tired and just wanted to lay on the sand and soak up the heat. But my daughter had other ideas. She was full of energy and was constantly trying to engage me in some thing or another.

In a flash of inspiration, I took the plastic mesh bag that had held the sand castle molds and handed it to her. "Here," I said. "Go fill this up with sand and bring it back and we'll build a sand castle." She grabbed it and ran off.

It was mean, I know. But I figured my daughter would try to fill up the bag with sand for maybe 15 or 20 minutes before she got so frustrated she'd stop and come for help. That was all I really wanted. Just 15 or twenty minutes to lay in the sun with my eyes closed and just relax.

Imagine my surprise then, when after only about five minutes, as I'm laying there on my beach towel with my eyes closed congratualting myself on my cleverness, a mesh bag filled with about 20 lbs of sand gets plopped down literally on my chest!

My daughter had gone down to the surf and filled the bag with WET sand.

The water had provided enough cohesion to the individual grains that they did not separate and fall through the mesh.

At that instant, I realized that our bodies are like sand in a mesh bag. And "spirit" or "energy" is the stuff that holds it all together and keeps it from falling apart. But there has to be just the right amount of water to hold it all together.

Too little water and the sand dries out and crumbles through the mesh. Too much water and the whole thing turns sloppy and runs through the mesh also. Losing sand through the mesh is what we recognize as "illness" or "aging".

Keeping that balance is what keeps us healthy and whole. When we get too dry, we can soak up some water from the ocean. If we get too wet and sloppy, we can distance ourselves from the ocean and allow ourselves to dry out a little.

Originally Posted by MasterRishi

I don't think it's right to promote fear in the area of astral projection. It just feels wrong. It's like the kindergarten of spiritual and energetic experiences, when it comes right down to it. Imagine filling your child with fear about going to kindergarten to learn new things.

Excellent analogy. I would like to use that to make a point if I may. I think that there is a difference between "Fear" and "respect for things that can harm you."

When I sent my children off to Kindergarten, I made sure that they knew not to talk to strangers, that if someone who they didn't know approached them that they should be wary, not get into cars, or take candy from strangers. I taught them appropriate caution because, as much as we'd like the world to be full of well-intentioned, loving and supporting people, the simple fact of the matter is, it is not.

Nine times out of ten - heck, 999 times out of 1,000 - a small child walking lost and alone in a shopping mall will be helped by any number of the hundreds of other people there who have no intention other than getting that child the assistance they need to get back to their family. That is small consolation to the child - or the family of the child - who is the 1,000th.

And so we teach caution not Fear. We make sure that our children know to stay close to us or to act in a way that helps to preserve their safety. We inform them of the potential for harm and we do the best we can to limit their exposure to that harm until such time as they have the strength and knowledge to protect themselves.

Alternate realties such as "The Astral Plane" or "nagual" are no different.

In many aspects, we are all children wandering around lost and undirected in a huge shopping mall full of other energetic beings.

Like a shopping mall to a child, it is a fascinating place; full of excitement and wonder. We have the opportunity to meet with and engage with other entities that we would never experience anywhere else.

And just like a shopping mall, there can be predators lurking amongst the otherwise benign or even helpful throng.

Without an understanding of this potential, we take risks unnecessarily the consequences of which can be tremendous.

Predators that feed off our energy impact our physical well being. By drying out our "water" it makes our "sand" crumbly and it falls through the mesh bag resulting in illness (either physical or mental). The stronger the predator, the more profound the affect on our tonal bodies.

Therefore, it is not "Fear" that one should feel when experiencing alternate realities, but neither should it be done without preparation or forethought to possible consequences.

[t4488]

Great story and I like the lesson you learned from it too.

[MasterRishi]

I can't agree with your statement regarding the limitation of energy our bodies can hold. The body doesn't operate the way the bag does, it operates like a conduit, a pipeline. We act as a channel for the energy to move through us, with no beginning, no end and certainly no stopping point in the middle. It's the bag analogy that causes healers to become exhausted after a few appointments or psychics to become frazzled after a few readings.

It's the belief that we have some battery within us that is able to be drained and must be replenished after so many uses that causes us to feel this way. But I challenge you to change your belief. If you understand that you are not a battery but a conduit for energy to pass through, then there is no energetic effort expended on your part and there is no need to feel like you have run out of anything.

We are capable of healing and cleansing and reading those around us non stop if we wanted to, but we hold this belief that we are a reservoir and must top ourselves back off when we have run out of juice. It might sound too simple to possibly be true, but if you think about this, we do it all the time.

I remember I used to think that our psychic abilities would diminish if we didn't use them regularly. I remember I likened it to the way a muscle would atrophy without steady use. I told this to a group of my peers during one of our class nights and the leader looked at me and told me "it's only true if you believe it's true." So simple that at first I scoffed at it. Then I realized how stunning the simple truth of it was. I was taking psychic powers, whose source is spiritual and non-physical, and compared it to something physical. In doing so, I had forced this limitless aspect of myself into a definition that was very limited. Once I removed this boundary, I found I was able to perform all manner of healing without feeling tired at all. In fact, I felt quite energized. It seemed the more I allowed myself to be used as an instrument to heal others, the more I was healed myself.

We do this all the time. We attempt to explain our spiritual and energetic nature by using physical definitions. What we don't realize is that by doing this, we are limiting ourselves in our ability to reach our fullest potential. We do this with our words constantly, block off and limit ourselves from a more full experience of the world around us. In the same way, it is the idea that someone else is able to steal the water from our bag and dry out our sand that causes us distress and fear. If there is no bag filled with sand and water, but only a constant flow of light and energy, what could be taken that hasn't already been replaced?

Think of the word "impossible". This only exists in a purely physical mindset, where things like physics and chemistry give us rules and boundaries that define what can happen and what can't happen. But in the realm of pure spirit, these rules don't exist. Try and ask a scientist about reiki or psychic abilities and they will like dismiss it as impossible, and yet we experience and express these things all the time. My challenge to you is to change your definitions and see how that changes the flow of energy around you.

I actually feel that the truth of illness and aging is when we hold onto energy that we should allow to pass through us. Often when doing healing on someone experiencing a disease or pain in a specific spot, the energy in that area looks like a maelstrom or a whirlpool, constantly folding in upon itself. It is through releasing this energy and returning it to a steady flow that people find themselves freed from these ailments.

As for what you said about using not fear but caution when experiencing the astral plane, I agree wholeheartedly. I don't think it prudent to focus solely on caution while astral traveling to the point of diminishing your experience, but it is certainly prudent to say a prayer to whatever angels or guides or higher beings you communicate with that you are watched over and protected on your journey. Just this small act of intention will send thousands of angelic beings to watch over you while you travel and you will not have to let concern cloud your experience.

I'm not saying that everyone will have their experience diminished by the thought of caution, but it does seem the journey would be less enjoyable if you were worried that around every turn there could be something sinister waiting for you. Just ask for protection and know you are protected and that the highest good will result from the journey no matter what. I completely agree that forethought is an excellent idea.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by MasterRishi

I can't agree with your statement regarding the limitation of energy our bodies can hold. The body doesn't operate the way the bag does, it operates like a conduit, a pipeline. We act as a channel for the energy to move through us, with no beginning, no end and certainly no stopping point in the middle. It's the bag analogy that causes healers to become exhausted after a few appointments or psychics to become frazzled after a few readings.

Let me consider this for a while. I believe we are saying (or at least believe) essentially the same thing, however I feel there may be an important distinction here that should be voiced. BUT, I want to make sure I am voicing it effectively and not perpetuating a misunderstanding.

Also, I may be limiting my own understanding and would like to explore that possibility as well.

Thanks for the opportunity to examine my beliefs.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by MasterRishi

I can't agree with your statement regarding the limitation of energy our bodies can hold. The body doesn't operate the way the bag does, it operates like a conduit, a pipeline. We act as a channel for the energy to move through us, with no beginning, no end and certainly no stopping point in the middle.

Cleaver but there is still a limit to pipes, ask any plumber. If you don’t believe me, try to water your grass through a soda straw. Even with extreme pressure, more than a few square meters of grass are not going to get watered.

It’s true that the amount of energy available in this universe is enormous (though not infinite), that does not mean it’s all yours to command. Getting energy from a large external source can keep your personal energy supply from getting used up so quickly. If you try to channel more energy than your system can handle, the channel will rupture (you will be injured).

Also you assume you are in a situation that you can ‘reach’ these external energy sources (usually true for everyday circumstances).

The body has a bag like energy storage (don tien), an internal energy generator, AND several energy conduits at its disposal.

[MasterRishi]

Originally Posted by wstein

Cleaver but there is still a limit to pipes, ask any plumber. If you don’t believe me, try to water your grass through a soda straw. Even with extreme pressure, more than a few square meters of grass are not going to get watered.

Again, if you liken it to a physical pipe and think of it in terms of dimensions of length, width and height, there will indeed be a limit to your ability to conduct this energy. We can't use these comparisons if we don't want to limit our ability to use the energy available to us. The majority of my post was about letting go of the tendency of using physical definitions to constrict and limit spiritual concepts, so I find it somewhat ironic that in the very first sentence of your reply, you use the word 'limit'.

The energy of all creation is infinite, being that it is not finite. It is without beginning and without end and it is certainly available to each and every one of us in equal measure (how many times can you divide infinity?). As we are all co-creators, it is indeed ours to command, although the concept of "commanding" is a bit authoritative and wasn't the direction I was going, but it works for me.

You can believe that the body has a limit to it's energetic conductivity and storage capacity if you like, but after shedding myself of these beliefs, I have found a world of possibility that I never imagined before. I simply don't believe that it's possible for me to channel more energy than my system can handle, as I don't believe there's a limit to what I can handle. I also don't believe that I can be harmed by being a channel for that energy, of which I am also created from and a part of.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by MasterRishi

Again, if you liken it to a physical pipe and think of it in terms of dimensions of length, width and height, there will indeed be a limit to your ability to conduct this energy. We can't use these comparisons if we don't want to limit our ability to use the energy available to us. The majority of my post was about letting go of the tendency of using physical definitions to constrict and limit spiritual concepts, so I find it somewhat ironic that in the very first sentence of your reply, you use the word 'limit'.

The energy of all creation is infinite, being that it is not finite. It is without beginning and without end and it is certainly available to each and every one of us in equal measure (how many times can you divide infinity?). As we are all co-creators, it is indeed ours to command, although the concept of "commanding" is a bit authoritative and wasn't the direction I was going, but it works for me.

You can believe that the body has a limit to its energetic conductivity and storage capacity if you like, but after shedding myself of these beliefs, I have found a world of possibility that I never imagined before. I simply don't believe that it's possible for me to channel more energy than my system can handle, as I don't believe there's a limit to what I can handle. I also don't believe that I can be harmed by being a channel for that energy, of which I am also created from and a part of.

It’s not ironic, it’s just that I disagree with you.

Ok, the fine details. I did not say the energy was so limited, I said that the amount that you can actually command through your body (use at a given time) is limited. Your body is physical and finite, therefore it has limited energy capacity both for storage and flow. My experience it that people who try to ‘force’ more energy through their bodies (past their blocks) often end up with (undesirable) physical symptoms. I have also found that after a certain amount, any more energy added to the body (for storage) just leaks away (no damage).

To the gist of your statement (not the mechanics), I agree that the maximum amount of energy that can be channeled through the body is vastly greater than most people realize. In the spirit of expanding your horizons and dropping your limitations; even with a theoretical limit there is much room for improvement in capability.

There are ways to move energy that does not require it to go through the body. This uses the body only to control or direct the energy. Obviously way more energy can be put to use in this way.

The issue of ‘creation’ transcends any energy limits. If you simply create the result you want, there is no need to move any energy anywhere. Within the confines of this universe, there seems to be some mutual agreement (rather than a real limit) that changing stuff should be done through the laws of nature thus effectively limiting energy use by the small size of the physical body. I have been looking for loopholes in this agreement with limited success.