Is this magic?

[AlmostGodess]

I have been having this question for some time now and the time came to ask it. A friend of mine's husband was cheating on her. She went to a medium who told her that her husband will come back to her after she performs some "works". She performed them and the husband did not go to see that woman afterwards.

Now I am just curious if such "works" exist or if it was just a coincidence that he did not see that woman again. If these "works" exist, does it mean that they can be performed on anyone? How can protect himself from such "works"?

Sorry if this is very basic knowledge for some of you

[SethWilliams]

If she believed in her "works" then yes it was magic. If she didnt believe in her "works" then the guy just stopped. Shes still with someone who cheated on her, though.

Protection? Im not really sure. I mean there are methods. But theres no point in putting up "protection". It will only create a scenario where you need it.

Just know your not being magically manipulated. Or just stop believing in magick.

[redzalez]

There are people offline and online that offer these. Whether they work or not I do not know. I went to a shop and have bought these candles that were suppose to bring back a person and she still is not back lol.

[Richful]

Well "works" or workings, rituals and so on do exist... as in people do perform them with an expectation that they'll work. Do they actually work? Hard to say. Magic isn't exactly point and shoot technology if u know what I mean. Getting results is a big part of the process, but not always obvious.

It's said to operate as synchronicity, like your example, the medium did some "works" and the husband didn't see the woman again. He may have just changed his mind... or maybe the medium cast a spell on him.
(that brings up some moral questions for me, as in messing with free will etc.)
People who practice magic consistently (as in daily practice plus specific actions to bring about results) do believe it works and can be improved i.e. you don't always get it right the first time, it takes practice.
My 2c

[wstein]

I would say this is magic.
Yes almost anyone can do magic.
It’s possible the medium did the magic, not the woman.
The ‘tasks’ required may not be the same for everyone.

As a beginner, it’s hard to distinguish between magic and coincidence.

[AlmostGodess]

Originally Posted by SethWilliams

Protection? Im not really sure. I mean there are methods. But theres no point in putting up "protection". It will only create a scenario where you need it.

Just know your not being magically manipulated. Or just stop believing in magick.

Thank you, Seth! My concern was that if I start doing something and some other people don't agree or don't like what I do, then in principle they can ask a specialist to cast a spell on me and just stop what I am doing. This idea is a bit scary for me and I am trying to find out more about this topic.

[AlmostGodess]

Originally Posted by Richful

It's said to operate as synchronicity, like your example, the medium did some "works" and the husband didn't see the woman again. He may have just changed his mind... or maybe the medium cast a spell on him.
(that brings up some moral questions for me, as in messing with free will etc.)
People who practice magic consistently (as in daily practice plus specific actions to bring about results) do believe it works and can be improved i.e. you don't always get it right the first time, it takes practice.
My 2c

I was thinking that, when someone chosses to see a medium to ask for a spell, that person must be quite desperate. When people are desperate, they are easy to manipulate. I was guessing that the fact that her husband gave up the other woman was because the medium changed something about her energy and that it was she, herself, who made him come back, not the medium. Do you think this makes sense?

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

I was guessing that the fact that her husband gave up the other woman was because the medium changed something about her energy and that it was she, herself, who made him come back, not the medium. Do you think this makes sense?

It could be so but not necessarily. Such things do not fit into a simple template where we can clearly say: "It is so and so."

Anyway, magic does work whether we believe in it or not. And things like what you have described are happening all the time, only they are hidden, so few people are aware of them.

In any case, playing with someone else's free will is black magic, regardless what the person affected has been doing. No one has the right to interfere. The only thing we can do in such a situation is to send unconditional Love to all concerned. Or even reiki, provided we are able to surrender the result.

Protection? The greatest protection is to live in Love and Light, with integrity. Be yourself, follow your heart, no matter what others do.

Merrick

[Richful]

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

I was thinking that, when someone chosses to see a medium to ask for a spell, that person must be quite desperate. When people are desperate, they are easy to manipulate. I was guessing that the fact that her husband gave up the other woman was because the medium changed something about her energy and that it was she, herself, who made him come back, not the medium. Do you think this makes sense?

The way I've come to look at "spells" or "intentions" or any "works" is this:
- someone has a goal (in your friends case for her husband to stop cheating).
- some operation or ritual process is performed (this could be energy work by self or someone else, invoking of entities i.e. see witchcraft/magic/channeling, visualization, meditation, ritual movements, incantations, affirmations, mantras, positive thinking, pure intention and belief, etc.)
- a result occurs (in your friends case her husband stops cheating)

So from this perspective your friend got her desired result, the method itself is irrelevant. Could she have changed your friends energy? Sure. Could she have invoked a Goddess to bring her husband home (Hera might be a good one for that, Goddess of Marriage and Birth )? I believe so

Protection, it sounds like you're worried about cursing.
This link is an article written by an experienced magickian, Phil Hine on cursing. It's quite a common sense analysis, like how precise a person can actually be at cursing someone - by someone who has done it and other magicks. Does it work? Same answer as any spell or desire, maybe.

To keep things balanced here's a quick googled link to Protection Spells

Is protection necessary? I don't generally think so. One of PH's points in the article is that if u expect "magical attack" then any bad thing that happens to you is seen as attack. More than likely it's paranoia. You are the master of your own destiny, keep doing what you want to do

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by Richful

So from this perspective your friend got her desired result, the method itself is irrelevant.

Well, if you disregard God's will... Any kind of manipulation will backfire. Goddess Hera or any other wise being would help only if that wouldn't be a violation of the Law. Everything happens for a reason. It is also possible to do a regression therapy or spiritual healing in such a case to have a look at the cause of the problem, to find out what this situation is to teach us and to resolve it. Then the relationship may get healed. Anyway, there are many people out there who believe that karma is something which does not concern them.

Merrick

[Richful]

Originally Posted by Merrick1

Well, if you disregard God's will... Any kind of manipulation will backfire. Goddess Hera or any other wise being would help only if that wouldn't be a violation of the Law. Everything happens for a reason. It is also possible to do a regression therapy or spiritual healing in such a case to have a look at the cause of the problem, to find out what this situation is to teach us and to resolve it. Then the relationship may get healed. Anyway, there are many people out there who believe that karma is something which does not concern them.

Merrick

In any case, playing with someone else's free will is black magic, regardless what the person affected has been doing. No one has the right to interfere. The only thing we can do in such a situation is to send unconditional Love to all concerned. Or even reiki, provided we are able to surrender the result.

Well I've a friend whose Free Will was violated by a Reiki practitioner - he did massage and reiki. She asked for just massage and received both. Consent is very important but not inviolable.

No one has the right to interfere? Maybe not the right but definitely the need at times. If we believed that no one should interfere then how many alimony payments would single mothers not receive from fathers who walked out? What's the difference between that and attempting something with magick? It's a moral question. Should we interfere? Well that's up to the individual.

So magic works but only if God approves? That's a little naive.

[Tanemon]

Originally Posted by Richful

Well I've a friend whose Free Will was violated by a Reiki practitioner - he did massage and reiki. She asked for just massage and received both. Consent is very important but not inviolable.

I know you simply used this example to open up the discussion to a particular issue in the realm of ethics. But reading what you said made me want to say something. Hopefully, what I say will not veer the thread away from what's relevant overall.

Anyhow, I'm a Reiki-ist and a person who has long been involved with other practices or approaches in spirituality. You mention that a particular massage therapist "did massage and reiki" when only massage was requested. The thing is, many of us who have been attuned to Reiki find that the healing energy simply flows from us spontaneously - whether we have our hands on somebody giving a massage, or just affectionately rubbing the shoulder of a friend (saying "hi" or "goodbye"), or even "hands-off", just sitting in a living room watching a video with a group of friends.

Once we're attuned to it, the Reiki energy simply becomes part of who we are. And this seems to be the case with other divine energies, too - if we have worked with them or are attuned to them.

I'd make a distinction between these "divine energies" and ones that are, in essence, manipulative. But that is just my point of view.

[Richful]

Originally Posted by Tanemon

Once we're attuned to it, the Reiki energy simply becomes part of who we are. And this seems to be the case with other divine energies, too - if we have worked with them or are attuned to them.

I'd make a distinction between these "divine energies" and ones that are, in essence, manipulative. But that is just my point of view.

Thank you for sharing, that is not a perspective I'd considered. I too am Reiki attuned, I've never felt anything unconsciously move though, your experience is a blessing

I understand why you'd make that distinction, but I don't agree. The very word Divine refers to being God-like. Magick is communication and sometimes communion with divine intelligences. Many of the gods have been worshiped by whole civilizations, some still are worshiped. The very origin of Reiki makes reference to Bodhisattvas and revelation. Yes their energies can be used for manipulation, however Reiki is a form of manipulation - to achieve healing.

Reiki and the various offshoots and sister arts are the latest in a long line of practices people have been receiving from the "divine" sources. Much of the "energy" arts have been learned through channeling, that itself came originally from Spiritulism - talking with spirits.

I guess I'm trying to say it's easy to see witches and such as being "evil black magickians" when so much of the new age is about love and light and happiness. When no matter what practice you undertake it is your motivation that matters. Especially when the new age is the grandchild of magick.

[Tanemon]

Originally Posted by Richful

Thank you for sharing, that is not a perspective I'd considered. I too am Reiki attuned, I've never felt anything unconsciously move though, your experience is a blessing

This experience has been discussed by other Reiki-ists on the Pavlina forums as well as many other boards. I offered it only as a possible explanation for why the masseur in question may have 'given Reiki' when it was not requested: sometimes it simply occurs.

Originally Posted by Richful

I understand why you'd make that distinction, but I don't agree. The very word Divine refers to being God-like. Magick is communication and sometimes communion with divine intelligences. Many of the gods have been worshiped by whole civilizations, some still are worshiped. The very origin of Reiki makes reference to Bodhisattvas and revelation. Yes their energies can be used for manipulation, however Reiki is a form of manipulation - to achieve healing.

Yours, too, is an interesting point, Richful. I referred to Reiki as a "divine" energy, and the connotation of divine these days does tend to suggest "love & light". But re-read what I wrote and you'll see I did not condemn other approaches. But, yeah, the term "manipulative" which I did use can, in itself, be a can or worms. I admit it.

Originally Posted by Richful

Reiki and the various offshoots and sister arts are the latest in a long line of practices people have been receiving from the "divine" sources. Much of the "energy" arts have been learned through channeling, that itself came originally from Spiritulism - talking with spirits.

I'm aware that Reiki is part of a long line of related practices. I'm well aware that other spiritual/healing approaches or methods or "energies" have long been used and are being used.

Originally Posted by Richful

I guess I'm trying to say it's easy to see witches and such as being "evil black magickians" when so much of the new age is about love and light and happiness. When no matter what practice you undertake it is your motivation that matters. Especially when the new age is the grandchild of magick.

Okay. Well put. But remember that you introduced the notion of "evil black magickians".

In terms of explaining my point of view (and I introduced it as simply my own), I'd say that intent can be very important. Hey, look, I'm a human (or, 'in a human incarnation', if you like). As humans, sometimes our intent is more selfish than it is at other times.

Anyhow, let's refrain from highjacking this thread.

[AlmostGodess]

Thank you for your inputs, I did not know any of these

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by Richful

Reiki is a form of manipulation - to achieve healing.

Reiki was never meant to be a manipulation.

What do you mean by healing? What your ego believes is healing? Nobody has the right to interfere with another's life without their permission. We have to honour every person's free will. How do you know that the cancer someone got is not, in fact, a blessing in disguise? How do you know what kind of learning the husband's infidelity is supposed to bring to all concerned? What your ego tells you? Nobody has the right to take away another's learning material.

The essence of all healing is surrender. And this requires a deep humility. To acknowledge that everything in life is important, everything has its place in life. Who are we to judge?

I'm not saying that we shouldn't stand for what we feel is right but we must never be manipulative about it. Otherwise we may talk about Love and Light all day long and it will be just empty words.

Originally Posted by Richful

When no matter what practice you undertake it is your motivation that matters.

The motivation of your ego?

Merrick

[dorothybaez]

Originally Posted by redzalez

There are people offline and online that offer these. Whether they work or not I do not know. I went to a shop and have bought these candles that were suppose to bring back a person and she still is not back lol.

Hi! I'm new and I'm just going to jump in with both feet.

Yes, these things can work. Oftentimes they don't. People go buy a candle, light it, and think that's the whole of it. I'm not trying to be insulting. There's a lot more to it than that.

Love work can be extremely lucrative. It can also make a mess. People think they need work done, when they really need to look hard at their choices.

I talked to a woman the other week who wanted a love charm to make her husband faithful. I asked her why she wanted to keep an adulterous jackass. I have a good friend who keeps threatening to send me to charm school - I just can't seem to help myself....

[Merrick1]

Originally Posted by dorothybaez

I have a good friend who keeps threatening to send me to charm school - I just can't seem to help myself....

Once I attended a Feng-shui course in Johannesburg and the lady who ran the course told us that she had attracted a man whom she liked using a charm.

He invited her out to dinner and while chatting he told her that he didn't trust these new-age women because they use charms and other under-hand tricks to trap men. Well, he probably meant it as a joke, not knowing how right he was.

Merrick

[Aegix]

I firmly believe that Magick (Strong intent focusing and energy manipulation) can be quite useful, or quite destructive.

It is important to honour Free Will.

One may argue, that someone's ego (conscious mind) is crying for the help, even when their words are saying 'no, i don't want you to do any hocus pocus on me' .... you can see them crying for help with their emotions and actions, but some blocks are preventing them from saying it aloud.

In that case, what is truly Free Will manipulation and what is the Will of Love (God)?

The rule of thumb I find works is: Is my higher self (Love) truly directing me to intervene in this person's life to make a positive change?

When dealing with supernatural arts and Free Will, it is always best to trust your intuition. You must ask the right questions. You must get to the root of your own intentions. Is your 'magick spell' for the other person's greater good, or some way of your own ego of validating it's existence or feeding its greed and need for control? It may vary greatly from one subjective awarness (us) to another.

For example, I don't think there's anything wrong with casting a 'spell' with the intent of 'Enhance this person's true self' or 'Please God do whatever is in this person's highest good' ......

and of course, you can argue that whatever they're going through right now IS in line with their highest good (i.e. to teach them valuable lessons) ....

This internal debate can go on idefinetly...

[dorothybaez]

Originally Posted by Merrick1

Once I attended a Feng-shui course in Johannesburg and the lady who ran the course told us that she had attracted a man whom she liked using a charm.

He invited her out to dinner and while chatting he told her that he didn't trust these new-age women because they use charms and other under-hand tricks to trap men. Well, he probably meant it as a joke, not knowing how right he was.

Merrick

That's pretty funny. Sorry, "charm school" sounded like a bad pun....actually means "etiquette classes." (Although I may use "charm school" as a title for a spellcasting class someday...) I tend to be extremely blunt....and I really enjoy sophomoric humor. I also did not come with an edit button.

[dorothybaez]

Originally Posted by Aegix

It is important to honour Free Will.

That's why I'm not a fan of love charms, etc. I do protection work, etc. quite often, though.

One has to acknowledge the existence of evil in the world. It's there, and wishing for butterflies and rainbows won't make evil go away. Part of what I do is helping folks protect themselves.

My criteria is: If I would use physical means to protect you, I have no problem using spiritual means.

[Richful]

Originally Posted by Merrick1

Reiki was never meant to be a manipulation.

What do you mean by healing? What your ego believes is healing? Nobody has the right to interfere with another's life without their permission. We have to honour every person's free will. How do you know that the cancer someone got is not, in fact, a blessing in disguise? How do you know what kind of learning the husband's infidelity is supposed to bring to all concerned? What your ego tells you? Nobody has the right to take away another's learning material.
Merrick

I class Reiki as manipulation as much as any "method", if it is not used there would be no change... Yes? Or what is the point in using it? A change is made, manipulation is a heavy word for this circumstance. I'm merely comparing methods here, practices that bring change.

Your thoughts on healing are interesting. I understand the perspective and I don't share it entirely. Our egos are not evil, they serve a purpose, as you mention all things do. I use my ego to judge as best I can in any circumstance. But I know it's involved, I don't deny the existence of reason or spirit. Who are we to judge? Who indeed.

I believe in equal rights for all. I agree that we should consider what we are undertaking before intervening in the affairs of others. Do I believe we have the right to interfere with others free will? No. Do I believe it's possible to interfere with peoples free will? Yes.
Rights are granted. No one is granting us the right to interfere, we just can.
That is why I'm pointing out these ethical questions as being our own. We make the choice, we exercise free will in our actions. Even the ones that hurt others, knowingly or not.

Certainly if someone asks me to help them heal I will. I am not the kind of person to sit by and let bad things happen if someone wants help. Whatever lessons we have to learn have to be a part of the intricate fabric of existence, any and all changes we make to our lives are a part of that. How do you judge when not to act? That is as much of a judgement as acting.
Acceptance? A choice.
If I get cancer tomorrow will I fight it? Absolutely. Will I accept it? Yes. All of it is part of the healing journey. Whatever lessons I need to learn will cross my path regardless.

Anyway, enough of my this debate. Lets get back to the magick

[Richful]

@Aegix & dorothybaez:
I remember being tempted to try love spells years ago and thinking I'd always know I needed magick to attract someone... so left it alone. I've certainy heard plenty of people using magick to get some 'sexy time' but I never tried it myself

Anyone have advice on developing divination or scrying? I'm not too interested in trying to see the future more the idea of seeing the situation clearly, information gathering. I like to know what's going on under the current before acting.

That's why I'm not a fan of love charms, etc. I do protection work, etc. quite often, though.

Mind if I ask what kind of protection work? I've never felt the need to actually protect, just banish, so I'm curious...

[Aegix]

@Richful:

You made me smile this morning, thank you.

What's the difference between magick and charisma to 'get some action' ?... the line is too smeared for me to distinguish. Focusing on making you own aura more brilliant and attractive is certainly a 'moral' way to attract more people that are compatible with your energy (i.e. they're on the same wavelength as you)..

I used to just use the 'focus' method to acquire the interest of any girl I happened to fancy at the time... oh the days of University... but I digress... basically, if you can find a way to stare into her soul (without getting noticed and freaking her out... nor being a stalker outside her window)... basically imagine having the best conversation with her (or him) in your own head.. rehearse it many times... then forget all about it and actually go TALK TO HER!!! Worked like a 'charm' for me....

Now is that magick? or just my aura/charisma.. or perhaps a blending of both.


As for divination... I use a pendulum... my own silver ring, hanging by my own strand of hair... just because I think that matters... it might not at all...
Then, just practice... make sure to 'cleanse your area' before you dowse and also try to ask for an 'accuracy percentage' from the pendulum...

All I can think of for now...

[dorothybaez]

Originally Posted by Richful

Anyone have advice on developing divination or scrying? I'm not too interested in trying to see the future more the idea of seeing the situation clearly, information gathering. I like to know what's going on under the current before acting.

Scrying is really helpful when trying to see a situation clearly. Practicing with different methods is your best bet. Always light a candle when scrying. Tea lights are okay and inexpensive. The simplest thing to try is just a plain glass of water. I've got a scrying mirror I made myself - that might interest you. You take regular glass, paint one side black or some other deep color, and use the other side to look in.

Tarot cards are a great tool also.....

Mind if I ask what kind of protection work? I've never felt the need to actually protect, just banish, so I'm curious...

I use mainly hoodoo type things for protection work, but it really depends on what is needed for a particular situation. It's important to be open to what your people (guides and ancestors) are telling you.

[Richful]

Thanks for the advice peeps, been a while since I walked this path, cheers

You take regular glass, paint one side black or some other deep color, and use the other side to look in.

Tarot cards are a great tool also.....

I've always wanted to try that There's just something cool about making your own tools (totally almost wrote magicing your own tools).

Use the tarot now and again, usually find it a bit complex. I'm sure practice makes perfect.

Might give both a scrying mirror and a pendulum a go, I haven't used either before. Thanks again

[dorothybaez]

Originally Posted by Richful

Thanks for the advice peeps, been a while since I walked this path, cheers

I've always wanted to try that There's just something cool about making your own tools (totally almost wrote magicing your own tools).

Ha! Awesome Freudian slip! I made my own rune cards some years ago and was experimenting with spreads etc. Things got so busy for me that I didn't pursue it like I wanted to.

Use the tarot now and again, usually find it a bit complex. I'm sure practice makes perfect.

I came across this link that has a HUGE list of different spreads. Find a spread you like and after a while, stick to it. You will get better results that way.

Might give both a scrying mirror and a pendulum a go, I haven't used either before. Thanks again

I've had a pendulum for about a year now. Working with it is interesting. I would love to practice finding lost objects with it.