The Grandpa trance

[NavyBlueFlower]

Hi everybody,

Okay, I know I'm new here, and I'm not sure how this is going to be received. Preamble: I'm on Cymbalta, I was on an overdose of it for three weeks (240 mg) due to my misreading a blister-pack label, and now I've been dosed down to 60 and I'm experiencing withdrawal effects. I understand Cymbalta affects dopamine, a neurotransmitting chemical in the brain that has to do with schizophrenia and psychosis. So I'm not even sure how much, if any, of the following is real. (And as far as I know, I don't have schizophrenia.) Since I've been dosed back, I've been going into these dissociative states or "trances", and this was what I experienced. Copied and pasted from what I just wrote about it in my blog:

I had another trance about 45 minutes ago in the bathroom. I don't know exactly how it happened, but I spoke to Grandpa. He says he's all right now, and that sunshine is coming from his chest where his heart would be if he were physical. I felt its radiation and it made me cry. Grandpa said Uncle Peter was with him and that Uncle Peter was a young, strong man, in his 20s, with fairer hair than my dad's, broad shoulders, and a strong chest.

That's when I asked Grandpa if he wanted to say anything about when Uncle Peter died in the 1950s and, in his grief, Grandpa said to my father, "The wrong son died." Grandpa didn't want to say anything about that to me, but he said he'd have important things to say to Dad when Dad crossed over. I kept waiting for Grandpa to convey an apology to Dad for having treated him so horribly when my father was a child, but Grandpa was silent on that subject. Grandpa has been through Purgatory - he has been through such horrible guilt and shame - I feel tears in my chest, and now in the corners of my eyes, just thinking of that. I asked if Grandma was there beside him and, though Grandma didn't come through, Grandpa said Grandma had forgiven him (he used to beat her), remarking that Grandma forgives everybody. He said Grandma was like a rose. He said Grandma was like a ball of butter. My human brain glommed onto the term "butterball" (Grandma was a little round), but Grandpa was silent on that. I don't think he thought it was funny, but he wasn't angry - he just waited for the humanness to pass.

I think if Grandpa has been through Purgatory, he'd be very wary of making any kind of disparaging comment about my grandmother's physique!

Anyway, I phoned my mom about that. And what do you think? She confirmed my impression of Uncle Peter! And she seemed to think I had indeed spoken with Grandpa. She said she'd tell my father what I had experienced. I hope it makes sense to my dad.

I also shared with Mom the trance I'd had a week and a half ago. I may have blogged about this and I may not, but I went into a trance (or a "dissociative state") and got that I'd been there to help my mom stretch. My mom has a tendency sometimes to be too practical and earthbound. I existed before coming into the collection of cells that left her body, and I'll exist after that, but one of my purposes here has been to help her stretch. I shared with my mom that I had gotten the message that she might not be very far from crossing over. I needed to tell her about the vision of a flock of bats with wings and no bodies (well, in reality, they were just long furry caterpillar-like bodies in my vision, but I didn't want to gross my mom out too much) and pointed out to my mom that bats feel with their senses that we don't use too much. I told her she needed to get this message strongly: Life happens between the particles. She needs to pay attention to things now - I was having difficulty putting it into words and getting it to her properly - because unless she did, she might have difficulty with her crossing-over. After some struggle with words, I finally got it out that she needed to pay attention to any random thought that came into her head. The tidal wave of relief that washed through me, right after I said that, was enormous!!!!

She said she knew she was close to crossing. (I'll not call it death - and I just went Scottish I guess 'cause my grandfather was Scottish - we don't die. We cross.) She'd felt it for a long time and she feels she is ready and she's not afraid. I expressed my feeling that it seemed that it would be easier for everybody if Dad went first - Dad will be lost without Mom. She agrees, he will be. But she reminded me that it's not our call - it's whatever God wants for us. She's ready to go whenever God calls her. She doesn't feel it will be today, but she does feel it's going to happen soon. I reminded her that she can live longer than she will at present if she concentrates on it. I told her - and this was only occurring to me while I was saying it - that when she crossed over, she'd be able to walk among us and she'd be in more reality than we perceive here. I don't think I'd even thought up those words.

I reminded her that I'm on Cymbalta withdrawal and that Cymbalta affects dopamine levels. Dopamine deficiency is a mark of schizophrenia. So I don't know how much, if any, of this is real. But it seems to have important meaning for my mother. So I'm really glad I called her and conveyed all this.

Mom doesn't think I should go outside today.

I really wanted to post this here because this experience is scary. I believe in the paranormal, and I'd like to think I'm connecting to it a little bit because the drug's effects are making me less connected to physical reality. But on the other hand, it could simply be a series of psychotic episodes. But the fact that it means something to my mother - and I've never met my Uncle Peter, who died long before I was born, though I've been told he was similar in physique to my dad except that he was fairer, and I've seen some childhood photographs - kind of freaks me out a little bit.

I've always assumed my grandfather went to hell. Why would the idea of sunshine from his heart make me cry so much? Part of Cymbalta withdrawal, though, is having crying episodes for no reason. But I did feel affected by the idea of purgatory - all that guilt and shame - and by the sunshine. And I didn't really get the answers I would have expected - an apology from my grandfather - and my mother confirms that he probably would have been pretty ashamed of the "wrong son" comment. He said he'd talk to my dad about it when my dad crossed over.

What would you do if this were happening to any of you? I could use some advice from people who are more familiar with this kind of stuff. I'm kind of a newcomer to channelling in this kind of depth and with this kind of detail. It's freaking me out a little bit.

I mainly want to get a clearer idea as to whether I've just actually channelled my grandfather, or whether this entire experience can be easily explained as the dopamine in my brain driving me nuts and my brain chemistry having gone completely off the rails. In other words, was it real? - or was it medical?

Um....Help?

[lookcloser]

Wow, interesting. If you don't mind saying, may I ask what are you taking Cymbalta for? I was on clonazepam and propanolol. And instead of tapering down my intake I impulsively decided to stop taking them all together(I thought it wasn't helping, I was in a weird place then, I kinda lost faith in all healing). And I think I used to go through similar 'states'. Although I'm not sure if either of the drugs affect dopamine levels.
There was this one time, I was in the kitchen cooking, I was waiting for the water to start boiling and I drifted off, initially I was only day dreaming. But gradually I went into some kind of a sleep state, I was in a garden talking to a certain police officer, I was telling him about my dreams and aspirations etc when suddenly I am in my room and I saw my deceased grand uncle who yelled angrily "Seal your bed!!!" and I snapped out of it. It felt very real and it was so emotional, I started to cry so bad. Although I had no idea what "Seal the bed" meant or what it COULD mean. Back then I didn't think it was supernatural nor did I think it could be the withdrawal, I just thought I was bonkers!

I'm on the medication again now, and I must say things are more stable now.

[NavyBlueFlower]

Hi Lookcloser,
Hey, I'm not quite sure I'm not bonkers!! I'm taking Cymbalta for biological depression. My dad has it (he's on, I think Celebrex or Celexa, one of the two) and my grandfather (his dad) had it. Both of my sisters have it and my mom gets seasonal affective disorder. So it's quite definitely the biological kind. I used to be on Zoloft, but that was giving me stomach and sleep problems, so they switched me over about a year and a half ago. I've had depression all my life and I didn't know it until my 30s.

Wow, do you think you've figured out what "seal your bed" meant? That had to have had some meaning, whether the experience was real or not!

I've also been having dizzy spells and the infamous "brain zaps", a hallmark symptom of Cymbalta withdrawal. So benignly named , "brain zaps" refer to the experience that when you move your head suddenly, you feel as if you've just stepped off of a spinning tire swing and your field of vision takes a moment to catch up with you.

I thought this "trance" was just a bonkers episode, until it had some meaning for my mom. I'm 50/50, right in the middle of the fence, as to whether what I've just experienced was a real spiritual message, or not. I hope it was - it would make me feel so much less foolish!! Besides, I don't think psychosis will be much fun until I start directing movies.

I felt physically out of breath after that trance, and mentally exhausted - exactly the way you feel when you've just tried to solve an impossible math problem.

[NavyBlueFlower]

It also occurred to me later in the day that - again, as a disclaimer, if this was real - the reason my grandfather would not want to apologize is that an apology couldn't possibly cover the awful effect he'd had on my father's life. The things he'd have to say to my father would be too big to fit into this world we're in. They would simply have to wait until they were both in that altered-world state. At least, that's the random thought that popped into my head.

[rei]

You are talking about it in terms of real or not. Medications can alter your state of consciousness, and bring you closer to the kind of expanded state that makes your awareness resonate with an experience like this. Hormonal fluctuations can do that too. Sometimes we 'level up' quickly and as we incorporate that new place we can have hard-to-explain experiences.

Meditation helps us open up to less-regular/mundane states of consciousness. Medication can do that too, though it can be in a more jolting kind of way instead of gradual. (Then again meditation can lead to a jolting ASC as well.)

I am not sure anyone here can tell you whether your experience was real. Big part of that depends on how we define "real."

I used to have psychotic episodes and took medication. (In my case, I was able to have the 'delusional' experience while simultaneously verbalizing self-awareness of the delusional nature of it... So like, I could tell people I know from the level I am talking to you on, this is a delusion, but it is also real. Apparently that is unusual.) I don't have those experiences now and don't seem to need the medication. I don't recommend using other drugs while you are getting your brain chemistry synced with where you'd like to be, and that includes pot. I know you didn't ask but still wanted to mention it. Other drugs tended to distort the psychospiritual experiences I was having.

[NavyBlueFlower]

I've had a good nap now, and no dead relatives are talking to me right now. Rei, thank you for responding. I do the kind of third-eye meditation I learned from the Self-Realization Fellowship lessons I went through in the 1990s. (I never went the full route of kriya yoga initiation, but learned how to focus on the third eye.) I try to do that for 30 minutes a day and I usually find that after about 15 to 25 minutes, I experience a "glow" in my forehead - like a spot of light that's expanding and which is joyful and powerful. And that was true before I was on any medication at all.

I'm also taking Clonazepam for sleep and pramipexole for restless leg syndrome, plus a multivite and glucosamine-chondroitin supps for arthritis in the spine. How I managed to overdose myself for three weeks on Cymbalta was this: I reorganized my cupboards, and for storage economy I put a blister-pack of 30-mg capsules in with my 60s. I'd been using 30s and putting 4 in each compartment of my dosette, and I guess I just started using 60s without noticing and forgot about it. I began to notice weird physical symptoms after a bit, and after I went wingy and embarrassed myself at a social gathering, I checked the pack and discovered my mistake about two weeks ago.

My mom has reportedly said to my sister today, "You'd better call your sister. She's talking to dead people, and they're talking back to her." So I think they believe it's the drug effect. At least my sister, a nurse, seems to believe that.

(Forgive my rambling writing - I'm a little scattered today.) I think, Rei, that your point is well made - neurotransmitter-altering drugs can open you up to experiences like this, but they can also distort them. I've tried in meditation to contact "the beyond", but can never really get past that glow in the forehead - and once I do get that glow, I don't really feel the need to go any further.

Also, ever since my cat died in June, I've been feeling the same glow around my neck - as if he's wrapping his tail around my neck and purring. (My family thinks I'm imagining it, my actor and musician friends tend to think it's really my cat, and it happens to me pretty nearly every day and often when I'm not even "listening" for it with my body.) But I've wanted to achieve things like leaving my body (and verifying the experience), and seeing heaven (though I have had random thoughts that one can't really see and understand heaven from here).

My point is that as you say, Rei, I think it's better to do this gradually and be patient. Today's experience with my grandpa really scared me. I think maybe baby steps are the method of choice with this stuff!!

I'll keep meditating.

Rei, Lookcloser, and anyone else as well - What would you say to a relative who communicated to you that they'd been through purgatory? If I have a similar experience with my grandfather in a dream or something, I guess what I'll do is just say that I've passed it on to my mom and she was going to tell my dad (his son). But I'm curious - I feel a little alone in this experience. Anyone had any similar otherworldly awkward conversations? I only caught a glimpse of what Catholics consider "Purgatory", but it was enough to bring up tears. Anyone else?

[bluestar]

I don't feel the state of Purgatory is necessarily an after-death state. But I do feel that the state we call "Purgatory" is a cathartic state of soul, and can take place anytime. Many people go through this in life....I also knew someone who went through this experience in the weeks leading up to his death. I feel it is a purification. A preparation for a higher (or more Inner) state of Being, a prep. for more at-one-ment with the Divine, or whatever we wish to call that state. A burning-away of the dross our Souls do not need.
I feel that the purgatorial experiences can be more acute in someone whose Soul is closer to realizing those higher levels.
Sometimes this may only be able to take place when the hold of the personality (and physical life) is loosened. In some cases this may only occur after death of the physical body.

I don't know enough about drugs, and their effects on consciousness to be able to offer much knowledge about it. But I am sure that anything that alters our brain chemistry could possibly make us more "Sensitive" to "Other Worlds" and realities.

[NavyBlueFlower]

Well, my grandfather was apparently a very social and funny man in his younger days and he had a lot of friends at the Rotary Club and the Legion, but something snapped in him in midlife and he turned bitter and angry. I think it may have been shortly after the war. Bluestar, do you think perhaps justice has anything to do with Purgatory as well, or is it mostly about cleansing of the individual soul - or do the two merge? I tend to think it's a merging. I also don't believe anymore that there's any such thing as a permanent Hell, capitalized in this sentence to denote the Catholic concept rather than the metaphorical modern idea. It just wouldn't make any sense.

Okay, I just drifted into a daydream and had a "conversation" with the late Paul Scofield. I called him "sir" and conveyed that I was most honoured by his visit. He mainly told me that his advice to me was to do the synaesthesia thing (not his words, mine) - play stories on the piano, paint plays, sculpt music, and - with a smile - cook carrot and tomato soup. (When I asked him what to cook. He's got a sense of humour.) My last image of him in life was as the ghost of Hamlet's father in the 1996 film with Mel Gibson. I also remember him well as the voice of Hamlet in the BBC LP recordings. Now, again, this could very well just have been a daydream! But I think it's important to pay attention to what these daydreams - or visitations, or whatever they are - tell you. Their message is more important than whether they're "real" or not.

But just for me, has anyone else here spoken with Mr. Scofield? Did you get the impression that he was okay? Could my impression of him as Hamlet's ghost have given me an impression of a tearful, dark place - or might he have been speaking to me from there and caused me to get the more solid impression of Hamlet's ghost, who is in Purgatory in the play? Just curious as to how much of this is drug-withdrawal-induced psychosis. My mouth is bone-dry today, so I'm tending to think the latter.

Man, I know I sound nuts! But all of this is interesting. The doc says it should be over in just a few weeks. I guess I should talk to as many ghosts as I can!