Is chaos magic(especially sigil) some metaphysical malpractice?

[Whitelotus]

I've been long wanting to try out Sigil magic and whenever I browse about to read about it it leads to occult sites with black magic and the cult practices of the like, which gives me a queasy feeling.
Is sigil magic just a formulated way of intention manifestation or there is more about it?
I'm mainly reluctant to try it because I am a spiritual seeker(starter) and want to maintain a high level of vibration.

Does someone has any thoughts on it? I'm really confused.

[bluestar]

John Hewitt seems to have written some pretty sane and decent stuff about sigil magic. You could maybe check out some of his stuff....google him, see what you come up with.

[Whitelotus]

Thank u Bluestar..
I'm familiar with the steps of sigil.What I'm concerned about is if its 'morally right' to practice sigil or does it comes under the realm of black magic.

bcos whenever i browse abt sigil topic, it leads me to pages with wicca, black magic, occult n stuff which gives me an uneasy feeling.

[Richful]

Hi again,
I answered ur above question in ur other post but wanted to add a comparison I've been thinking about for a few days.

Steve Pavlina has used the same ideas as Chaos Mages.
Why? Meta-beliefs. The idea that beliefs can be worn and shed like clothes. Using a system of belief for a particular purpose and then casting it aside.

When Steve was first forming his ideas on the power of belief this is exactly what he did, embedding himself in a belief system and living it. His world took on the characteristics of his chosen belief system. Thus he worked his way around to the theory of subjective reality. An impressive feat. A very chaos magic approach too, trying the belief and observing the results. While Steve did it all by himself, the Chaos mages did it first - back in the 80's

Rather than Black or White I think of them as Grey Magicians. Originally they believed all magic was relative so they took from all traditions and made new methods. It's really just eclectic magic.

If the occult (occult meaning hidden) makes u uneasy maybe best to avoid it. But remember that most of the LoA stuff was channeled, most new age techniques are channeled from "higher sources". Magic practice uses invocation (to invoke a spirit/god/being into a person) for similar tasks, however magic has a long tradition of banishing rituals to ensure nothing sticks around and reality checks should always be used when dealing with spirits and such
Peace.

[Whitelotus]

Thank u very much Richful,
That was a sound explanation. Particularly the one abt beliefs. I am wondering if one could use sigil to alter one's belief system itself. As in if i want to shift my belief from objective to subjective reality,( as in completely ingrain the idea) can a sigil achieve that.
I am asking this because certain practices are restricted to certain things alone.eg. I'd read that a pentagram or cabbalah ritual only works for material things, as in even manifesting a job cannot be done using this pentagram ritual.
Are there limitations of that sorts for sigil.

I have no prejudices against channelling n metaphysical stuff as long as it is not a demon they r invoking. I've come across quite a few ppl in the forums discussing invoking demons.Now i dunno why someone wants to do that.
I guess as long as one doesn't affect the free will of others the practice of magic is fine.

[elucidate]

Yeah, me either. I've noticed that too about people, kids probably, thinking it would be cool to summon up a Demon. As if they wouldn't crap their pants if they caught a glimpse of one!

Think they must have played too much dungeons and dragons when they were kids?

[Whitelotus]

lol.yeah. I've read many of them do that to summon power but demons r lower vibrational beings that live of the our energy.So the one summoning gives the power to it. Sorta counterproductive n weird.

i love ur signature. feel good one.

[theuprising]

What's this magic stuff? How is it different than normal spirituality. Sorry lol newcomer to the party, but why call yourself "mages" that has ridiculous connotations to it (or is that what you all are claiming to be).

And last but not least, this question I pose to all new agey ideas, if this is true for realz, why don't you perform this magic and scrutinize it in a scientific manner to show the world it is true.

[Richful]

@Whitelotus:
Your most welcome
The concept of certain practices (sigils, rituals) working for specific purposes is outdated and probably from a particular tradition (Qabballah), in my opinion. Why not make your own ritual up for what you wish to achieve? You're very concerned about doing things the "right" way. I get like that to, but it gets nothing done.
Change a belief with a sigil? Give it a try. If it works there's your answer. If not try again - after all it's a big change for your first try at sigils. Perhaps get proficient with getting results and then hammer away at reality

@Whitelotus & elucidate:
Demons - Inherently evil entities yes? That is what we assume, depending on your belief. Magic uses demons just like gods, angels and now superheroes. There are certain systems that work with summoning demons (Goetia) to get things done. Here's a real world example we can all relate to:
Did you know there are services (programs) running underneath your computers application layer you can't see? Doing work behind the scenes Guess what there name is? Daemons. An old spelling but an accurate one
There are bad people in the world, why wouldn't there be bad spirits? Like bad people some of them have skills which can be handy. In saying that I haven't done it and I don't advocate it as wise - but credit where credits due.

@theuprising:
Well if I spelled it Magick it's be easier to google It is a spirituality in some forms - it can be used for devotion or results . However, before there was Steve Pavlina, IM, LoA, The Secret, The New Age, Reiki, and even before Spiritualists... There was the occult. Groups like The Golden Dawn, Thelema, The Eleusinian Mysteries, people like Aleister Crowley, Austin Osman Spare, Dion Fortune. Further back to the middle ages John Dee - astrologer to Queen Elizabeth. Further again to the Ancient Greek Mysteries - heard or the Oracles of Delphi? Take the Jewish path through Qabbalah. Or maybe some hoodoo a clashing of Shaminic practice and Catholicism. Shamanism from around the world is in it's own way the beginning of all spirituality.
That magick dude.

Why don't I personally show the world? I'm still on my training wheels

[Whitelotus]

@ Richful
Making up own ritual eh? sure maybe that'll get me out of the 'get it right' syndrome. I'll take some time to plan the ritual and lay it out. that could put more energy into it. That's the idea isn't it? Is there anything fundamental that shoud be considered when setting up a ritual?
Daemon..i've always wondered abt that one. Interesting etymology.


@theuprising
I'm just as a newbie as you are. but i agree with what richful says here "It is a spirituality in some forms - it can be used for devotion or results ".
It all comes down to the question of belief and willingness to explore.
Have u seen the movie: the skeleton key? what a wonderful twist at the end.I was completely taken by surprise ( yeah yeah... i digress).

[bluestar]

The power of "sigils" are used quite widely, even openly in our modern society to alter consciousness in some way or another. Even something like a brand logo is a "sigil" of a kind.
The Christian Church uses Sigil Magic.

The way I look at it is, it's not the tools which are used which determines the moral state of the Magician, it's the intent for which they are used

Like a hammer. It's neither "good" nor "bad" it's just a tool.
Use it to build a beautiful wooden bridge and call that "Good magic" Use it to smash someone's head in, and call that "Bad magic"

[Whitelotus]

@ bluestar totally agree with u.

[Richful]

The power of "sigils" are used quite widely, even openly in our modern society to alter consciousness in some way or another. Even something like a brand logo is a "sigil" of a kind.
The Christian Church uses Sigil Magic.

*cough*McDonalds*cough*

[bluestar]

Originally Posted by Richful

*cough*McDonalds*cough*

That's so funny! but true I guess
The question being....does it make your consciousness alter? Does it make your mouth start to water? Does it make your deepest gut-feeling "Double cheeseburger".....?
If so it's sigil magic maybe...ha ha!