Druidism / Paganism

[SkyAzure]

I note the recent news that the UK Charities Commission has recognised Druidism as a Religion and, although encouraging for those who follow alternative faiths and lifestyles of undisputed lineage and provenance, I have to admit that I find some of the rubbish spouted by those who have started crawling out of the woodwork as a result quite frankly, for want of a better phrase, nauseating.

Take Wiccans for example. Specifically the Post-Revisionist neo-Murrayite pseudo-Pagans who seem to believe that their own "ancient" faith will now qualify for similar recognition when, in fact, it has no lineage stretching back further than the 1960s when Gerald the Cabbie (for it was he) first established it as a "faith" - and not a coherent, even semi-unified, one at that.

Am I the only one to find this kind of thing cheapening and demeaning to those who of us who actually practice authentic paganism / natural magick / earth worship / druidism; when the same old "soul on your sleeve" rubbish is trotted out by those who wear our faith as a label purely for effect? Thoughts please!

[desertrat]

I think you find some thing like that with most religions , as differnt groups practice it , they interept it as they want . We new agers , Wiccans, and Pagains , have no Budda , or Christ to follow . desert rat

[bluestar]

"Goddesses" are worse......have you seen any of them? These women really do believe they are real ones. They go to a few "workshops" wear flowing robes and dance in the streets....and suddenly they have become high Initiates of the order of Isis

[Stacedoll]

It makes me want to vomit all over myself even reading about these new age wannabes. seriously if they actually took the time to learn about anything to do with the ancient religions they would realise it would be so much more than dancing around in their ****ing white gowns with flowers in their hand. more than likely the rspca would be involved if they did totally follow suit. ****ing idiots

[desertrat]

Term new age covers a lot of ground , this is a lint to a guy that owns a book store in Phoenix AZ USA New Age Help and Information I use it for lack of a better term . The Wiccans have some rules to follow if you want to be a Wiccan . If I wanted to be a "new age guru " I could just print out a document stating that I was a "new age guru " I would not need to know a f****** thing

[Firefly101]

Originally Posted by bluestar

"Goddesses" are worse......have you seen any of them? These women really do believe they are real ones. They go to a few "workshops" wear flowing robes and dance in the streets....and suddenly they have become high Initiates of the order of Isis

[Firefly101]

Originally Posted by bluestar

"Goddesses" are worse......have you seen any of them? These women really do believe they are real ones. They go to a few "workshops" wear flowing robes and dance in the streets....and suddenly they have become high Initiates of the order of Isis

Somebody recently forwarded me a notice for a Shamanic Priestess workshop.

Workshop! LOL.

[bluestar]

I can't help thinking it would take more than a "workshop" to make a true Shamanic Priestess. That's the problem. There seems to be a culture among some New Agers that such enlightenment and unusual abilities can be learned in a fairly short "course" (or paid for by course work and accommodation fees which usually come into the hundreds/thousands.)

[desertrat]

I dont have hundreds and thousands , and I get impatient with work shops , so I guess I will do this on my own . Dancing in the woods naked as the Wiccans do in some of there ceremonys sounds like great fun tho. To quote a 60 s term we all do our own thing . One group of druids could say 5000 years ago the druids warshiped trees , another group of druids could say hell with that , today we drink beer and eat pizza , and watch foot ball on t.v. desert rat

[bluestar]

Originally Posted by desertrat

another group of druids could say hell with that , today we drink beer and eat pizza , and watch foot ball on t.v. desert rat

Whatever floats your boat desert rat
I do the beer thing, worship trees, but haven't walked naked in the woods since I got stung on nettles, (it was ok till that happened) pizza's pretty nice, watch scary movies on TV....

[Stacedoll]

According to classical and archaeological sources it took a druid / magi, 20 years, sometimes more to be fully learned. Also learning Greek, Latin, philosophy and astronomy. Every poem, spell and utterance basically had to be learned in the mind, nothing was allowed to be written down. We then have the ritualistic beliefs, The worship of the head / heads, sacrificing of animals, humans and so on.

I can't imagine many of these new agers putting themselves through any of that, though who knows with people now a days.

[bluestar]

Yeah REAL Druidism/Paganism.....well that's a different matter.
But what I feel sorry about are the "so-called" Druids, Pagans, whomever....who can end up making the real ones quite misunderstood (not that the real ones are TOO bothered about mainstream opinion I would think...

[Stacedoll]

It is believed Druidism was practically abolished from the Roman era, though new evidence is cropping up where they possibly mainstreamed through Roman culture and kept hidden, though human sacrifice it seems turned to a more secretive act than public worship.

I don't like the word paganism, Christianity forged this word as far as I am concerned and now makes it sound dirty or abnormal, turned so called "pagans" into heretics and evil doers so I wouldn't see it as even being the correct terminology for the ancient beliefs.

The early ancient religions, many of them anyway, to me were beautiful, and pure, a sharing of masculine and feminine, especially in Celtic culture where women were accepted as equals, in some cases one may class them as barbaric ie: the druids and their sacrifices.

You have to question what beliefs would the western world have today? if Rome hadn't taken over Gaul, and Constantine hadn't forced Christianity onto the the known world?

For me it's something to ponder.

[elucidate]

The funniest thing I ever saw was a so-called Shaman woman who was in a coven I found myself in a few years ago, who used to eat at McDonalds!

Shamans don't eat at McDonalds...of that I'm certain

I guess I do like the chips myself...so maybe I can't really talk either. ****, now I'm getting all these memories of eating there come back...damn shadow!

[Sain Outre Longfang]

Hmm?
Interesting, I was brought up in a christen family and never thought of pagans as evil. I always thought it was just a term used to describe people who worshiped more than one deity? How that would make someone evil is beyond me.
The beleif that christens have that there is a "devil" or "demons" (the origins of the word 'demon' meaning simply spirit or divine power.) makes them somewhat pagan themselves. As the word "daimon" one of the roots for "demon", meant "a genius" or "one who could oppose god".
This is interesting to me. For if God is omnipotent, then why recognize another entity as on equal footing? It may stem from the unification attempts the church used in earlier times.
i.e. "Someone or something that could oppose the church is a demon, and must not exist."


But more on subject, I think it would be benificial to these people to study and know what the religion they call "theirs" intells. I have no religion myself, for I have no one way of living life, which is really what a religion boils down to in the end.

[elucidate]

If they were to investigate it, they may be utterly shocked to discover their religion stems from Paganism

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

Hmm?
Interesting, I was brought up in a christen family and never thought of pagans as evil. I always thought it was just a term used to describe people who worshiped more than one deity? How that would make someone evil is beyond me.
The beleif that christens have that there is a "devil" or "demons" (the origins of the word 'demon' meaning simply spirit or divine power.) makes them somewhat pagan themselves. As the word "daimon" one of the roots for "demon", meant "a genius" or "one who could oppose god".
This is interesting to me. For if God is omnipotent, then why recognize another entity as on equal footing? It may stem from the unification attempts the church used in earlier times.
i.e. "Someone or something that could oppose the church is a demon, and must not exist."


But more on subject, I think it would be benificial to these people to study and know what the religion they call "theirs" intells. I have no religion myself, for I have no one way of living life, which is really what a religion boils down to in the end.

[Stacedoll]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

Hmm?
Interesting, I was brought up in a christen family and never thought of pagans as evil. I always thought it was just a term used to describe people who worshiped more than one deity? How that would make someone evil is beyond me.
The beleif that christens have that there is a "devil" or "demons" (the origins of the word 'demon' meaning simply spirit or divine power.) makes them somewhat pagan themselves. As the word "daimon" one of the roots for "demon", meant "a genius" or "one who could oppose god".
This is interesting to me. For if God is omnipotent, then why recognize another entity as on equal footing? It may stem from the unification attempts the church used in earlier times.
i.e. "Someone or something that could oppose the church is a demon, and must not exist."


But more on subject, I think it would be benificial to these people to study and know what the religion they call "theirs" intells. I have no religion myself, for I have no one way of living life, which is really what a religion boils down to in the end.

Elucidate you are also 100% correct, sure the Christian saint Bridget was originally the celtic deity Brigette / brigantia.

Dating back to the 4th century any person that did not believe in the Christian "deity" Jesus, and the one lord god, they where a pagan and heretic not all pagans believed in numerous gods, there where branches that had single beliefs.

There was a really cool guy called (Palagius) who opposed and had our modern day beliefs while still holding full faith in his christianity, in the 6th century, anyone that is interested should take a look for him.

Either way as can be guessed I have deep interest along these lines, my lecturer in college for celtic studies gets extremely angry when quoting these new agers as she calls them, ie: Stonehenge has now been changed by law for all current day Druids as they petitioned for this as their religious rite. What these guys must have forgotten to check was stonehenge was in no way druidic, it dates back well before them. Silly buggers.

[Sain Outre Longfang]

Well, yes and no IMO.
They are quite different.Christianity is not my favorite religion and in fact theology isn't a strong subject with me at all, but I will say this.
Saying Paganism or polytheisim and Monotheism is the same thing is like saying a handfull of sugar is the same as a sugar-cube. Sure they are both sugar and come from the same base elements, but a handfull of sugar is many. A sugar-cube encompasses all of the many grains of sugar, but is considered one. From this you get order, but lose the individual identity of the grains of sugar in the process.
Both the same, and different in my eyes.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

Well, yes and no IMO.
They are quite different.Christianity is not my favorite religion and in fact theology isn't a strong subject with me at all, but I will say this.
Saying Paganism and Monotheism is the same thing is like saying a handfull of sugar is the same as a sugar-cube. Sure they are both sugar and come from the same base elements, but a handfull of sugar is many. A sugar-cube encompasses all of the many grains of sugar, but is considered one. From this you get order, but lose the individual identity of the grains of sugar in the process.
Both the same, and different in my eyes.

Not sure if this was a retort to my post or Stacedolls, but I'll repeat anyway...Christianity stemmed from Paganism...that doesn't mean it's the same as it though...just that it's roots lies in Pagan beliefs.

[Sain Outre Longfang]

It was to yours Luci.
Just slow on the draw this morn. lol

Yeah, I know. But at the same time, it's like worshiping a single star, when there is an entire universe full of them.
It's just easier to hold more respect for existance as a whole instead of dissecting it piece by piece. That was what I think the allure of monotheisim was for many.
Meh.

[elucidate]

Maybe. At the same time though, things can get a lot less confusing when there is only one star to worship. I'm just thinking of this now though so it's no great thought out theory.

Goodnight all

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

It was to yours Luci.
Just slow on the draw this morn. lol

Yeah, I know. But at the same time, it's like worshiping a single star, when there is an entire universe full of them.
It's just easier to hold more respect for existance as a whole instead of dissecting it piece by piece. That was what I think the allure of monotheisim was for many.
Meh.

[desertrat]

Originally Posted by elucidate

The funniest thing I ever saw was a so-called Shaman woman who was in a coven I found myself in a few years ago, who used to eat at McDonalds!

Shamans don't eat at McDonalds...of that I'm certain

I guess I do like the chips myself...so maybe I can't really talk either. ****, now I'm getting all these memories of eating there come back...damn shadow!

At a McDonalds one time I talked to a lady , she was talking to her kids in Hebrew , I am sure she was a Jew .. I am not a Jew , and dont speak Hebrew . Maby she did not have baccon or cheese on her burger . McDonalds is hardly Kosher any way . desert rat

[generalinterest]

It seems that many people on here believe that "true religion" is determined by the length of time in existence... i.e. many of said that neo-Pagan Druids (contemporary ones, like those who worship at Stone Henge) are "silly' because they do not realize the history of this place ...

why does the fact that contemporary NEO-pagans worship differently than the "original tradition" (as if it were cohesive! and as if anyone could possibly know what it was!) make them any less worthy of a status as a legitimate religion or for charitable status?

who are any of us to decide what 'true', 'real' or 'authentic' belief is? why can't we be open to accepting people as they worship and giving them all equal rights? most neo-Druids in the US don't claim heritage back to ancient celtic worship but that doesn't mean they don't want equal rights as other forms of religious expression....

[bluestar]

I knew a Shaman who ate sausage, bacon, egg, fried mushrooms, tomatoes. It was a Full English Breakfast. He is a good Shaman. Deep Soul, just a little strange. But he has been known to eat ordinary food. Dunno about Mcdonalds. I've eaten Macdonalds on occasion. But then I'm neither kosher, nor a Shaman...
I diverge (sorry....food obsession!)

[desertrat]

Originally Posted by bluestar

I knew a Shaman who ate sausage, bacon, egg, fried mushrooms, tomatoes. It was a Full English Breakfast. He is a good Shaman. Deep Soul, just a little strange. But he has been known to eat ordinary food. Dunno about Mcdonalds. I've eaten Macdonalds on occasion. But then I'm neither kosher, nor a Shaman...
I diverge (sorry....food obsession!)

That sounds like a big breakfast to me . I usted to make for my self a Spainish omlet , its scramled eggs with cheese , peppers , onions . Sausage , bacon , mushrooms, tomatos tossed in also would of tasted just fine , I think . Unless you are on a diet . The Jews have a bunch of dietary laws , one is not eating cheese with meat . I had a Jewish girl friend , in name only , she had no problem eating pork . desert at

[Ravenna]

I have recently begun a research project on the "pagan" origins of Christianity. Earth-worship always seemed to make sense and feel right to me and I have read some books on Wicca/Witchcraft, but have never really tried to practice anything. Since the "New Age" pseudo religeons etc don't stack up, where should a person like myself start? I am serious about exploring the spirituality that my heart feels is true, but don't know where to begin.

[Wasmeanttobe]

Originally Posted by SkyAzure

I note the recent news that the UK Charities Commission has recognised Druidism as a Religion and, although encouraging for those who follow alternative faiths and lifestyles of undisputed lineage and provenance, I have to admit that I find some of the rubbish spouted by those who have started crawling out of the woodwork as a result quite frankly, for want of a better phrase, nauseating.

Take Wiccans for example. Specifically the Post-Revisionist neo-Murrayite pseudo-Pagans who seem to believe that their own "ancient" faith will now qualify for similar recognition when, in fact, it has no lineage stretching back further than the 1960s when Gerald the Cabbie (for it was he) first established it as a "faith" - and not a coherent, even semi-unified, one at that.

Am I the only one to find this kind of thing cheapening and demeaning to those who of us who actually practice authentic paganism / natural magick / earth worship / druidism; when the same old "soul on your sleeve" rubbish is trotted out by those who wear our faith as a label purely for effect? Thoughts please!

Before it was sensationalized, it was practiced.
After the hype has died down, it will be practiced.
Does any of the media attention really effect you?

What other people do and what they want to call themselves is one of those things out of your control.

Sounds like a waste of energy getting upset over this.
You know who you are, stay humble and keep practicing.

Maybe you can help those people who are currently making you feel sick to understand some truths about druidism/paganism..and expand your community and circle of companions.

Maybe you secretly enjoyed being part of a smaller more underground movement?

I hope you feel less nauseated soon <3

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Not sure if this was a retort to my post or Stacedolls, but I'll repeat anyway...Christianity stemmed from Paganism...that doesn't mean it's the same as it though...just that it's roots lies in Pagan beliefs.

I disagree with this assessment. Christianity is clearly linked more to Judaism and Islam than to Pagan beliefs, although the early church as an entity took pains to absorb the pagan rituals of western european converts before the middle ages. While Jesus' birth day is not known, they officially moved the celebration to the winter solstice, blah blah blah yule log.

European Christians may feel the connection more intimately, but we don't really have yule logs over here, or a lot of the pagan connections to the holiday celebration that european people might still enjoy. When I was growing up we didn't even get a tree regularly.

But the structure, function, ritual, and theology is intimately linked with the monotheistic religions of the fertile crescent.

But if you'll notice, the teachings of Jesus aren't really linked to animism or nature worship. Those elements are secondary to the realization that the kingdom is within you.

[elucidate]

Ok. I'll bite

Maybe you've research further than me?

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

I disagree with this assessment. Christianity is clearly linked more to Judaism and Islam than to Pagan beliefs, although the early church as an entity took pains to absorb the pagan rituals of western european converts before the middle ages. While Jesus' birth day is not known, they officially moved the celebration to the winter solstice, blah blah blah yule log.

European Christians may feel the connection more intimately, but we don't really have yule logs over here, or a lot of the pagan connections to the holiday celebration that european people might still enjoy. When I was growing up we didn't even get a tree regularly.

This is funny to me, because I grew up with a mother who comes from Canada, and I always thought Americans did make a big deal out of christmas,(and yes, I know they are two different countries) especially with a tree? Was this just your town, or is it like this all around the states?

But the structure, function, ritual, and theology is intimately linked with the monotheistic religions of the fertile crescent.

Ok, I'm letting that absorb...

But if you'll notice, the teachings of Jesus aren't really linked to animism or nature worship. Those elements are secondary to the realization that the kingdom is within you.

No, they're not...and yes, they are

[desertrat]

On Jesus what he said was written down long after he was gone , at lest form the phy. so we have the words of thoes starting a new religion . On Christmas trees , when I was a kid we would get a live tree in a 5 gal. bucket and plant it after Christmas . That makes more sense to me than using a dead tree . desert rat