Is there evidence of souls?

[The David]

Is there? I've been wondering this alot lately. I hear that consciousness is dependant on the brain, but that seems to raise more questions than it answers. I would very much like to believe otherwise.

So for those of you who believe in souls (i.e a consciousness independent of the physical body), how do you justify this belief?

(I'm not trolling).

[Radical]

In answer to your question "Is there evidence of souls?" No, unless you count personal experiences with no scientific validation as evidence.

Also, I believe that outside the physical body consciousness loses all meaning. Since you need a brain to interpret and store information from your senses, in order to be aware of your surroundings, i.e conscious.

[RandomJohn]

The David - For the record, I don't believe you're trolling.

To be honest, I haven't seen any good evidence of souls anywhere, except for perhaps the ideas of out of body experiences (which I've only had minor success) or astral projection (which I have no experience with). There's also the location of consciousness thread over in the spirituality forum which may or may not shed a little light on this for you. At this point all I can offer you is that I do hold the belief that there is a soul and am trying to look for the implications of it.

[november]

I have seen souls. With my own eyes. So, that counts as my evidence. Does it matter for others? Probably not. Nor should it.

I have felt the presence of souls around me. Again, my evidence that should not necessarily matter for others.

I, personally, know that I would exist w/o my body. But, I recognize that this life is about choices and we all get to choose what to believe.

Souls are just concentrated energies. And, energy can be neither created nor destroyed (at least, that's what science teaches us).

[Wabi-sabi]

I believe we have a soul but I can't justify the belief. I know I have a body, a mind and I am conscious but after that it gets pretty confusing trying to figure out how spirit, soul, subtle body, subconscious mind, chakras, and everything else the "newage" (and "age old") come up with fit into the picture.

I sometimes think what we refer to as the soul might be the same thing as the subconscious mind. But then, sometimes I don't. Maybe the soul is the consciousness of the subconscious mind.

You ask hard questions.

[Persol]

Originally Posted by november

I have seen souls.... So, that counts as my evidence. Does it matter for others? Probably not.... And, energy can be neither created nor destroyed (at least, that's what science teaches us).

Just two things. While I also believe in a soul, seeing one is not evidence. The human mind is an odd thing, so relying on unverifiable testimony of what one person sees is not evidence. Now, if we put you and someone else who can see souls in a room, and ask you both to right down the number/location... then we'd have start to have evidence.

Second, and this is a nitpick that doesn't really matter, scientifically energy can be created and destroyed. That's what quantum and nuclear physics are both about. The truth 'may' be that matter and energy are the same thing... but that isn't something science currently shows.

Those things said, from work in AI, I believe that 'something' funny is going on in the brains of all animals (including us). I fully realize that this is me basically saying "the sould did it" because I don't understand... it isn't evidence, but it's my belief.

[David Hausladen]

I can't give you hard proof that souls exist independent of the body.

I can say that there are plausible explanations by which consciousness (the "soul") can manifest in the brain without it being dependent on the brain--for a simple one, think of the brain as a projector screen and consciousness as the image being projected onto it. Or perhaps certain parts of consciousness are brain-dependent, but others are independent. For example, if we say that the Ego is within the brain, then what's said about disembodied souls being Ego-less makes sense.

[escapee]

I believe the evidence is in the near death experience researched by - Fenwick & Vanlommel though it may not be "scientifically" conclusive to many.

There are still more questions than answers, but, based on the aforementioned theoretical aspects of the obviously experienced continuity of our consciousness, we finally should consider the possibility that death, like birth, may well be a mere passing from one state of consciousness to another.

[TechnoGuyRob]

One thing I have often speculated about is the nature of a soul. What, exactly, does a soul entail? The claim is that a soul is the "real" you, and your body is just an extension. But, considering that memory, personality, sensory perception, emotion, and other things are physical (since they've been shown to be processed by the brain), so what's left? Does the soul have a "mirror" copy of everything you experience and know, so that say, when you die, you are still aware of your previous endeavours? Or is the soul just something that makes you conscious, but no more; could you transfer it to someone else's body and would you be that exact different person, except for now you would consciously be experiencing a different identity? But then, if so, how are you in any way "unique" or "special" or any of that, if you are truly just a switch that can be set to "Robert", or "David Hausladen", etc.

[RandomJohn]

Originally Posted by Persol

Second, and this is a nitpick that doesn't really matter, scientifically energy can be created and destroyed. That's what quantum and nuclear physics are both about. The truth 'may' be that matter and energy are the same thing... but that isn't something science currently shows.

According to the Law of conservation of mass and energy and Einstein's theory (think E=mc^2) physics accepts and assumes that energy cannot be created or destroyed but only changes form and that matter and energy are two forms of the same thing.

[escapee]

Originally Posted by TechnoGuyRob

One thing I have often speculated about is the nature of a soul. What, exactly, does a soul entail? The claim is that a soul is the "real" you, and your body is just an extension. But, considering that memory, personality, sensory perception, emotion, and other things are physical (since they've been shown to be processed by the brain), so what's left? Does the soul have a "mirror" copy of everything you experience and know, so that say, when you die, you are still aware of your previous endeavours? Or is the soul just something that makes you conscious, but no more; could you transfer it to someone else's body and would you be that exact different person, except for now you would consciously be experiencing a different identity? But then, if so, how are you in any way "unique" or "special" or any of that, if you are truly just a switch that can be set to "Robert", or "David Hausladen", etc.

Who knows ? The individual soul/energy could be just a fraction of the larger database of total consciousness or energy field in which steve described in his article. But the truth is , we are indeed all one - the source energy (cannot be destroyed or created ) - that composed our body and our mind.

[Persol]

Originally Posted by RandomJohn

According to the Law of conservation of mass and energy and Einstein's theory (think E=mc^2) physics accepts and assumes that energy cannot be created or destroyed but only changes form and that matter and energy are two forms of the same thing.

You're reading more into an equation than is there. All the equation, and current science, says is that matter and energy can be converted between the two. That does NOT say they are the same thing.

[escapee]

Okay i have this really crazy idea .

If we can prove that

the total energy of a dead body = total energy of a living body .

Then the presence of a "soul" out of a body when it dies off could possibly be dismissed ( with the 'assumption' that all matters are made of energy) .

Any physicists or scientists here willing to ....... shed some light on this

[Sean.M.Connelly]

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience.
We are spiritual beings having a human experience."
-Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (1881-1955)

For some reason this thread reminded me of this quote :-).

~Sean

[november]

Originally Posted by Persol

Just two things. While I also believe in a soul, seeing one is not evidence.

I believe the OP asked for personal evidence/justifications. Aside from that, if seeing something is not evidence of it, we can't prove the existance of anything, can we?

Second, and this is a nitpick that doesn't really matter, scientifically energy can be created and destroyed. That's what quantum and nuclear physics are both about.

I am just getting into reading about quantum physics, but what little I've exposed myself to has not said that energy can be created and destroyed. Do you have a book recommendation for more info about that? I would love to read that new science. (seriously)

[Ijin Kaion]

hmmm... i do have a soul but i don`t use it.
it`s there somewhere, but i have no use for it at these times, i`m ok i`m feeling ok that`s not the issue but really i don`t use it really, it`s like old furniture it`s there but you don`t sit on it you know?

[escapee]

Check out the article of near death experience in IANDS below . It's an interesting viewpoint about soul .

Could our brain be compared to the TV set, which receives electromagnetic waves and transforms them into image and sound, as well as to the TV camera, which transforms image and sound into electromagnetic waves? This electromagnetic radiation holds the essence of all information, but is only perceivable by our senses through suitable instruments like camera and TV set.

The informational fields of our consciousness and of our memories, both evolving during our lifetime by our experiences and by the informational input from our sense organs, are present around us,and become available to our waking consciousness only through our functioning brain (and other cells of our body) in the shape of electromagnetic fields. As soon as the function of the brain has been lost, as in clinical death or brain death, memories and consciousness do still exist, but the receptivity is lost, the connection is interrupted. .

Dr. Pim van Lommel, M.D.: Continuity of Consciousness

Account Index All NDE cases have one thing in common, not happiness , not sadness, but the indescribable peace ...... the kind of feeling that you can only experience when you leave your hormone filled bioliogical body. Are you all longing for the arrival of that day ?

[Decheron]

Hi, TheDavid,

Haven't finished reading these posts yet, so maybe you've got enough material (eg Escapee's Fenwick & Vanlommel - one of the recommended studies into the afterlife and souls). I don't bother to justify the belief - it's verity isn't important, only how the belief tempers your own values. Experience of soul-dead people is quite reinforcing of the belief, though.

There are many serious, scientific studies into this area, now. While none are proffering conclusive evidence, recent findings are leading scientists to surmise that this field is worthy of extensive research. Here are a few sites which report on these studies:

http://mikepettigrew.com/afterlife/index.html
VICTOR ZAMMIT -- A Lawyer Presents the Case for the Afterlife
Scientific Research
Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife

[DaveTyler]

Doesnt this state that soul is your consciousness, how can it be anything else.

[nosussbeliefs]

Originally Posted by TechnoGuyRob

One thing I have often speculated about is the nature of a soul. What, exactly, does a soul entail? The claim is that a soul is the "real" you, and your body is just an extension. But, considering that memory, personality, sensory perception, emotion, and other things are physical (since they've been shown to be processed by the brain), so what's left? Does the soul have a "mirror" copy of everything you experience and know, so that say, when you die, you are still aware of your previous endeavours? Or is the soul just something that makes you conscious, but no more; could you transfer it to someone else's body and would you be that exact different person, except for now you would consciously be experiencing a different identity? But then, if so, how are you in any way "unique" or "special" or any of that, if you are truly just a switch that can be set to "Robert", or "David Hausladen", etc.

I think the soul is the ultimate ego fantasy...well other then god and heaven. We are insticintively programmed for ego based desires... isn't it only natural you would want their to be a soul? a higher power?... a heaven?

[DaveTyler]

Good arguement, but I doubt its a ego desire, what about those who tried to comit suicide(ego act) and had NDE experiences?

[Liara Covert]

Great ideas are exchanged here. If you still question the existence of souls, you need to define what you mean (i.e. in life and/or death). Many people have written on the subject, such as Deepak Chopra. I would encourage you to read some of these views before you pass judgment.

[infinitethoughts]

The way I see, there is no direct evidence that you exist independantly of the brain.

But there is indirect evidence.

Intentional manifestation.
But unfortunatley it's a catch twenty two.

If a person believes that all they are is physical matter, then they won't invest the time to experiment to see if there's something to intentional manifestation.

[Channing]

The is some recent research by Quantum physicists that suggest that consciousness or "information processing" is a basic property of of the Universe, similar to time, space and energy.

That means that consciousness is not an emergent property of the arrangement of matter but rather something elemental in the spacetime fabric around us. That would mean that our consciousness or "soul" does not reside in the body but forms a sort of aura around of and potentially independent of our body. Our brains would then not be the source of our consciousness but just an antennae that recieves it. This idea would also explain such phenomena as OOBEs.

Rubert Sheldrake's theories and experiments with "morphic fields" also supports this idea.

see also:
Spiritual Cosmos - Quantum Mysticism

[Liveformx64]

Hard proof of an existence outside of this physicality would be a direct violation of the free will, and the veil which we place upon ourselves when entering this planet.

Until the point which we as a mass consciousness decide lift the veil, and learn our true heritage, I don't believe the etheric side of things will be presented to anyone, other than to those who seek it.

I think we are on the path of lifting the veil, as we manifest different things like "Alien" encounters, and "Ghosts" into our reality. These things are slowly but surely getting a grip in our societies. I believe these type of events encourage us to think beyond our physical selves, and serve as a signpost towards the infinite.

For thousands of years religion was our only framework of belief of anything beyond the grave, and I think we are finally making the shift away from the structured systems of religion and judgment and into a more true alignment with unconditional love.