James Randi's $1m Challenge... why not?

[Zanriel]

Why has nobody won Randi's $1m challenge?

Has anyone actually researched this? There have been hundreds, if not thousands of laboratory trials to prove the existence of psi. Some have been conducted by the government, some by universities, some by private organizations, with overwhelmingly positive results. So why has Randi's challenge yet to be met?

I've been trolling around his website a little trying to find the answers. The hardcore skeptics are like a vicious mob - it's practically like the witch trials. Very disconcerting. So what's really going on?

[theuprising]

I was under the impression the government already knows all it needs to know about psi, a la project stargate. I think they revealed the documents (or so we think) and the only thing substantiative that they came up with (according to the documents at least) was remote viewing, and they actually used it in the gulf wars.

[Zanriel]

I think it might have something to do with the amount of money involved. I figure maybe when you start talking that kind of money it locks something up inside and what you've been doing for years just runs for the hills when you get into the room with all those people watching you.

Here's the challenge info:

Challenge Info

The Foundation is committed to providing reliable information about paranormal claims. It both supports and conducts original research into such claims.

At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The JREF does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions under which a test will take place. All tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test. Preliminary tests are usually conducted by associates of the JREF at the site where the applicant lives. Upon success in the preliminary testing process, the "applicant" becomes a "claimant."

So far nobody has even passed the preliminary test, according to the website. Since 1964 over 1,000 people have applied.

[rei]

interesting question. i know i create blocks for my abilities if there is a testing/proving attitude... something i could work on. pretty sure it's me who creates the blocks and not the source of the ability. but maybe something like that happens here? most folks i know who are gifted aren't all that interested in running the skeptic gauntlet kudos to anyone who chooses to, though.

[supertom]

Randi is 100% hell bent on disproving it, he believes its impossible. How can someone prove to him the impossible.

[Savage]

Barf... not again.

You should be able to find countless posts in the archives about this topic. It's been discussed here ad nauseum. Try searching on Randi or JREF.

[Zanriel]

Ooh, the mighty Steve visits one of my threads! Nice to meet you. *wipes off the vomit* Way to make a relative newcomer feel welcome.

Sorry Steve... obviously a fascinating subject if there are so many other threads about it. That's what keeps people coming back right? Should I have dug up one of the old threads and bumped it? What's more courteous, ressurrecting a long-dead thread or creating a fresh one? Or just reading them and not posting? That's no fun.

I'm thinking about trying to track down some of the people who have applied and actually talk to them about their experience to find out what happened. I don't think it's quite as simple as "He's a skeptic, can't prove anything to him." Something deeper is going on. I would love to see the challenge met in my lifetime. It's been going on for 46 years with no winners so there's probably not much hope, but I really don't think it's as simple as flawed methodology. They actually allow the participants to design the tests themselves.

I've heard one theory that it's Law of Attraction. They don't believe in anything paranormal so they're attracting a matching experience. I don't buy that. Lots of things happen that blow people's paradigms out of the water.

Here's an example of what seems like it would be a very simple test for someone with decent intuitive ability:

PATRICIA PUTT, Psychic - JREF Forum

10 participants of the same gender were asked to sit in a chair wearing a ski mask and graduation gown, and an identifying number displayed. They would then recite a few lines of a poem that had been preselected for aid in tuning in to the person. The challenger would do a reading. At the end, the readings were laid out and each participant was to pick which one was theirs. 5/10 was the score required to pass the test, but the result was 0/10... none of the volunteers were able to identify their reading.

Assuming the person trying out was the real deal, how could she have failed a test like that? Is it that the only people trying out for the challenge are fakes, or is it something about the challenge itself?

My goal here is to either figure out how someone could beat the challenge, or why it can't be beaten. It seems to me a good approach would be to design a test protocol and try it out a few times for practice. They say psi often hides in a lab setting, but why is that? Is it because of the foreign nature of "performing" for a "test"? Too much pressure? What if a person practiced and got used to working under those conditions? Could they not then stand a chance of succeeding?

[LoneW0LF]

Simply because it's all fake. There's no such thing.

[rei]

i personally find the idea of testing these abilities to be rather disrespectful to whatever perfect storm allows for them to be seen at all from a 3d realm. i don't know if that opinion is shared in the etheric realms as i haven't asked. i imagine the opinions vary there too.

i also don't like the idea of trying to limit what is more unlimited than what empirical science allows for.

i have almost hit someone with lightning before (it landed about three feet from where they were standing), because i said part of me almost hoped they would get hit by lightning so they would realize who they had messed with. i was incredibly freaked out by this - i said it but i didn't really want it to happen, and if i had known it would really happen i would have handled the situation much differently.

so yeah, i was incredibly freaked. it was a fantastic opportunity to learn the value of focusing on what i actually want to happen. (this was several years ago and i was *really* angry at a perceived injustice.) but it's also something i would never want to recreate, in a laboratory setting or otherwise. i would never ever want that to happen again, not even if the almost would be included in the manifestation. i get weird about sharing this with others though. i know how it may sound... i don't get angry like that these days. i really don't say this to scare people, there is no reason to be scared of me. (besides, since that happened, in times when i am feeling anything resembling anger i am very very careful about what i think or say.) i'm just bringing up personal experience related to the topic, as an example of how abilities can work in ways we may not want in the lab, and may not want replicated. and as an example of why there is such a weird attitude about this sort of thing. (no military experiment offers either, thanks anyway )

i just don't really see the value of trying to prove this sort of thing to a closed mind, even if money is involved. in my opinion, this level of skepticism is less healthy doubt and more close-mindedness.

[supertom]

Its like trying to prove colour/color to people who don't have eyes

[Parthon]

It's because the tests are bogus and are completely wrong for physics.

The test with the ski masks is like testing someone's vision by putting a blindfold on them and asking them to read an eye chart. A random piece of a poem from 10 people who you can't see. Come on! Anyone who can read that is *extremely* gifted and would be better off making a million dollars some way easier. The tests are a complete misunderstanding of the way it works. It's not scientific in any way. It's purely just so Randi can prove he's right.

There's lots of testimonials from psychics who have said similar things. Either the tests were completely broken, or the testers kept changing the rules or their minds, or the communication was unprofessional and insulting. The people involved don't want to know the truth, they just want to protect their own world view.

After all, the truth is that there *could* be people with psychic powers out there, we just don't know. I would prefer to live in a world with superpowers than one without.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Parthon

It's because the tests are bogus and are completely wrong for physics.

The test with the ski masks is like testing someone's vision by putting a blindfold on them and asking them to read an eye chart. A random piece of a poem from 10 people who you can't see. Come on! Anyone who can read that is *extremely* gifted and would be better off making a million dollars some way easier. The tests are a complete misunderstanding of the way it works. It's not scientific in any way. It's purely just so Randi can prove he's right.

i agree with this. i would need the person to speak from themselves, not recite information that came from someone else. they would not have to speak about anything incredibly personal or specific, but if they are reciting a poem i would be more likely to get nuggets of info from the person who wrote the poem. it's mixing up the energy signatures to do it that way. i wonder whether the person who was doing that particular test even understood that?

also letting the people wear their own clothes would help too, as it would convey their own energy signature. wearing the same thing, an outfit chosen by someone else, is again mixing the energy signatures.

[Lauxa]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Barf... not again.

You should be able to find countless posts in the archives about this topic. It's been discussed here ad nauseum. Try searching on Randi or JREF.

Oooh, this makes me feel

Let me help you wipe off that vomit, Zanriel. Yes, I would say that many people here are quite interested in this topic, although our gracious (?) host obviously isn't one of them...

[nicbrahms]

I think it is to do with the subjective reality versus objective reality world view. In that you can not prove a subjective reality occurence in an objective reality mind view.

So if all the people that have set up the money and the goal are objective reality wallahs you are walking into an environment that is not conducive to proving what you do. In that Jesus needed people with faith around him when he performed his miracles. So do we I guess.

Interesting concept though that James Randi set up the experiment, does he want someone to prove it can be done, or does he want to hold onto his world view with credence given to it that it can't be done.

But then again why set the experiment up? Strange really. If I was so assured of my world view as I am in LOA I don't require proof of it, so why does he, unless it is wishful thinking?

I dunno, waxing lyrical.

Peace

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Barf... not again.

You should be able to find countless posts in the archives about this topic. It's been discussed here ad nauseum. Try searching on Randi or JREF.

Are we supposed to now stop discussing topics that have been discussed here previously? Reading the archives isn't at all like having a conversation with people.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

Are we supposed to now stop discussing topics that have been discussed here previously? Reading the archives isn't at all like having a conversation with people.

Feel free to discuss it all you want.

This topic has been brought up enough times though that it generally just loops through the same pattern... much like a broken record. Reminds me of the ST:TNG episode "Cause and Effect."

I was simply trying to save people some time, so maybe you can avoid the lengthy process of going through another time loop of rehashing what's already in the archives. Figured it would save you an hour or three...

[nicbrahms]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Feel free to discuss it all you want.

This topic has been brought up enough times though that it generally just loops through the same pattern... much like a broken record. Reminds me of the ST:TNG episode "Cause and Effect."

I was simply trying to save people some time, so maybe you can avoid the lengthy process of going through another time loop of rehashing what's already in the archives. Figured it would save you an hour or three...

Whats an hour or three when we have eternity.

love as always, Steve looks sexy in his pic. Swits swoo!

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

This topic has been brought up enough times though that it generally just loops through the same pattern... much like a broken record. Reminds me of the ST:TNG episode "Cause and Effect."

So I guess this thread is like hearing a weird rushing sound and knocking over your water glass?

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

So I guess this thread is like hearing a weird rushing sound and knocking over your water glass?

More like a poker game where you can predict which cards will be dealt.

[nicbrahms]

I have determined that I am telekinetic and I have rang James Randi bugger and told him to get his check for a squillion ready.

So heads up everyone I am gonna blow them.....outta the water.

pip pip

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

More like a poker game where you can predict which cards will be dealt.

That whole bit with Data having to rely on Ryker's pips (attn: Nic ) as a sign always seemed dangerously ambiguous to me... anyway...

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Wax Frog

That whole bit with Data having to rely on Ryker's pips (attn: Nic ) as a sign always seemed dangerously ambiguous to me... anyway...

I totally want to squeeze your avatar's cheeks.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

More like a poker game where you can predict which cards will be dealt.

When you believe you know how a conversation will go before it takes place, you're doing "already always listening" -- as opposed to authentic, generous listening.

People resurrect conversations about the same specific subject around here all the time, and very often it sparks new insights, and new ways of understanding things. The Law of Attraction skeptical threads, for instance -- that gets brought up time and time again, they tend to follow a pattern, but they also generate new learnings for people.

Plus, often an old threat that gets posted to anew gets closed because it's old, particularly if it has been controversial or contentious. (That's not a practice that I think is a good idea; it's just something I've noticed happens.)

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Angela

When you believe you know how a conversation will go before it takes place, you're doing "already always listening" -- as opposed to authentic, generous listening.

Yes and no. Pattern recognition is a powerful tool of us humans. But the trick is not to let it blind us.

After about 18 months on this forum I can see where some topics are going in advance. That's not good or bad in itself, it just is. I assume Steve means something similar.

And it can't hurt either for topic starters to first do a search before opening a topic. Chances are many similar topics have come by in the past.

[Jon Tore]

Originally Posted by nicbrahms

I have determined that I am telekinetic and I have rang James Randi bugger and told him to get his check for a squillion ready.

So heads up everyone I am gonna blow them.....outta the water.

pip pip

May the force be with you!

[moonrambler]

I really don't get why anyone has a problem with the same topics being discussed again and again. If you think *barf* or *yawn* when you see a topic, you don't have to look at it. If the conversation goes the same way every time, so what? It's not like we have a bandwidth issue. There are lots of topics like this on this forum. How do I do a water fast? How do I start eating 100 percent raw? The LoA doesn't exist! How do I use LoA to (whatever)? How do I start astral projection? How do I lucid dream?

It is simply a lot more fun and a lot more productive in most cases to have discussions instead of reading the archives. When I first came here, I read a heck of a lot of old posts trying to figure out how to make money using the LoA and IM. I also had discussions with people about it. It was much more the active conversations that steered me to a better path. Now, I hardly even look at the topic "How do I make money using the LoA?" Which appears over and over again and again, btw. Should I tell members to just look up posts in the archives? What about the people who really enjoy offering their expertise in different subjects and helping other people out?

And when I see the Randi topic show up, I always click on it, because I always want to see what somebody has to say. One day somebody, Nic or somebody is going to show that Randi dude what's what. And that development might just spring from a conversation on this forum

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I totally want to squeeze your avatar's cheeks.

Oh, I'll bet you say that to all the vertebrates!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

I really don't get why anyone has a problem with the same topics being discussed again and again. If you think *barf* or *yawn* when you see a topic, you don't have to look at it. .....One day somebody, Nic or somebody is going to show that Randi dude what's what. And that development might just spring from a conversation on this forum

Fully agreed.

Many of the conversations in the forums are started by someone who hasn't researched the question, and is just starting a new conversation, and many of those conversations go in similar ways to past one, and yet still people get value out of participating in the discussion, like developing some new, more effective way of communicating, or understanding something in a new way that they weren't ready for last time. It would be sort of funny if someone *barfed* in every topic that was being retread in a familiar pattern -- there'd be a stinky amount of barf around here!

This topic, I think, reactivates some gunk for Steve -- it's an opportunity for him to release some resistance, if that's what's there for him to do. (Which is not to say that James Randi doesn't have some resistance to release, too, if that's what's there for him to do -- he's just not here (that I know of! Now that I think about it, he might just be listening!)

[Plays With Life]

It looks like Steve's comment has caused the thread to go in a new direction, already.

[Wax Frog]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

It looks like Steve's comment has caused the thread to go in a new direction, already.

If the Boss wants to redirect the thread, who am I to argue?