Suicide and what happens after you die

[sgregory]

Let me clarify that I'm not suicidal in any way, I want to live as long as possible because there is just so much I want to do and grow from. But one day I thought, "What if one day something terrible were to happen to me like war, famine, debilitating disease ect. and there was no way to escape the suffering and I was going to die anyway. What were to happen to my soul if I chose to end my suffering myself?

Would my soul be in a lowered state because of this even though I truly wanted to live, but not suffer. When I reincarnate will I still have to learn my lessons, and it be harder the next time as Erin wrote in one of her Q&As on her site? Will I just have to go through intense suffering again in the next life if I choose to reincarnate?

[tboswell1216]

I don't think that you would have to re-learn all of the life lessons that you have already learned just because you kill yourself. I think that you would probabely pick up where you left off in the next life. You would already have a portion of your lessons completed, depending on where you were in your life and what lessons you had already learned, and you would just continue on with those lessons in the next life. I think that is what we do whether we kill ourselves or not. We decide what lessons we want to learn, and at our life review we see what we have accomplished and what we still need work on. I believe that we "carry over" the lessons that we need to work on from one life to the next until we decide that lesson is complete.

We all have lessons that we want to learn, and some may be better at accomplishing them than others. The more we accomplish, the more we grow, and it seems like the next life is "easier," because we remember where we came from quicker. Once we remember where we came from and use our abilities, life seems easier because we know that we are not alone and always have help when we need it. We also remember our true selves, and realize that our bodies are just a shell, not who or what we really are.

The problem with killing yourself is that you may have needed to learn a lesson from being paralyzed, or help someone else learn an important lesson. If you end your life prematurely, then not only are you cheating yourself out of growing spiritually, but you could also be cheating someone else who may really need your help.

Erin has also posted that if life is too much for us, all we have to do is ask for help. When we ask for help, I believe that if we are suffering so much that we do not think we can handle it, we can ask to die. By asking to die instead of killing ourselves, the "universe" has time to fill in the parts that we were supposed to complete, but we are still there to help until they can find a replacement. My understanding is that if you really want to die, after the universe finds a replacement for our "teaching," then it will do the rest (ie. kill us). It is kinda like what happens when we have completed everything that we were sent to do on earth. Our jobs are done, and we go back home (die).

[themaster]

It's my understanding.. that well suicide is a blessing compared to here.. (I do not claim expertise.. I just claim to pass on knowledge I've learned)

But interestingly enough almost all near death experiences you have had.. should mean that you did die.. infact it's my understanding it's possible to comeback after dying and carry on where you left off (though I wouldn't expect a lot to comeback.. I always say it like this.. if this is hell? what must heaven be like or non-physical) so basically if you have a near death experience on your totem pole.. expect that you have already died.. also expect that many multi-verses of you have died already..

[missing]

Originally Posted by sgregory

Would my soul be in a lowered state because of this even though I truly wanted to live, but not suffer. When I reincarnate will I still have to learn my lessons, and it be harder the next time as Erin wrote in one of her Q&As on her site? Will I just have to go through intense suffering again in the next life if I choose to reincarnate?

it seems wrong to me that the next life would be harder because of a suicide. If you killed yourself it's cause things were too hard and you tried to learn too much. Wouldn't it make more sense for the next life to be "easier" so you could learn your lessons a bit more slowly? You already proved once you had a limit, so what makes anyone think you can handle MORE than you already failed at handling? I suppose this might make for an effective deterrent, so people don't start offing themselves left and right to come back to an easier life. But if that were the case, than perhaps there is something wrong with a lot of people's "life planning" that needs to be collectively addressed.

When we ask for help, I believe that if we are suffering so much that we do not think we can handle it, we can ask to die. By asking to die instead of killing ourselves, the "universe" has time to fill in the parts that we were supposed to complete, but we are still there to help until they can find a replacement. My understanding is that if you really want to die, after the universe finds a replacement for our "teaching," then it will do the rest (ie. kill us).

The problem here is that your giving the universe permission to inflict a lot more suffering on you than if you were to chose your own method of death. Especially if you are young and unlikely to die peacefully. You're most likely in for either in for a bad accident or some kind of disease. The point here is that you want to die to end the suffering, you're not looking for an extra load of it before checking out. I suppose I just don't understand why suicide is viewed so negatively with this kind of spirituality. I don't see why we're supposed to take control of every other aspect of our lives but this one is "bad". It seems so arbitrary. Yeah it's selfish, but so is a lot of other things that are "permitted" and even good.

Even thinking about suicide is "bad"; no matter if you can help it or not. The OP needs to add the disclaimer "I'm not suicidal but...". What difference does it make to the question if one is suicidal or not?

anyway... good topic.

[Mato Kinze]

We incarnate with a plan and with a whole host of spiritual helpers to get us there.

When a person commits suicide, they derail the plan. Regardless of the "pain" or "suffering" you undergo, it is a part of the overall life plan.

To choose to end your "suffering" you're choosing to end your lesson - almost certainly before you've reaped the benefit of it.

Your life is not designed to be "easy". It is designed to teach you that which you need to understand - not just in an intellectual way, but in a visceral, REAL way - about existence and Spirit.

If you want to be strong, you must bear burdens. If you want to be humble, you must be humiliated. If you want to be patient, you must wait for that which you desire. If you want to be merciful, you must find no mercy for yourself.

This is true in this life and doubly true on a spiritual level.

When you commit suicide, you fail to complete your obligation not only to yourself, but to the rest of the Universe with which you've made a pact. Your responsibilities and obligations get shifted to someone/something else and you are left with a spiritual debt. Some call this "Karma."

Until your debt is paid and you accomplish fully that which you agreed to do before incarnation, you will not move to the next level. If you cannot accept this understanding of things, then not only will you not move to the next level, you will be unable to reincarnate because you will be unable to break the bond that ties you to this reality. (For a good "pop" version of what I mean, watch the Robin Williams movie "What Dreams May Come.")

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

We incarnate with a plan and with a whole host of spiritual helpers to get us there.

When a person commits suicide, they derail the plan. Regardless of the "pain" or "suffering" you undergo, it is a part of the overall life plan.

To choose to end your "suffering" you're choosing to end your lesson - almost certainly before you've reaped the benefit of it.

My .02 - I think this is true sometimes, and sometimes it is part of the pact and greater plan that someone would commit suicide. In other words, like everything else in life, there's not one "right" answer.

[missing]

Originally Posted by carenkh

My .02 - I think this is true sometimes, and sometimes it is part of the pact and greater plan that someone would commit suicide. In other words, like everything else in life, there's not one "right" answer.

that's my thinking. Mato is painting with too broad a brush. The tendency to shame people who are considering suicide seems to me inhumane and not compassionate at all. These are people at the end of their rope and you want to kick them when they are down? I mean I expect that from more fundamentalist religions but not those who are supposedly more spiritually enlightened. Of course it's possible that all suicide is a mortal sin on the "other side" but if so than I seriously question whether or not I want to be a part of such a universe in anyway, if there is any choice in the matter. Suffering for the sake of suffering does not seem to me like a good way to achieve spiritual growth. I think if you are suffering so much you'd consider killing yourself it's a sign you are doing something really wrong. At which point fixing things in this life might be futile.

But that's just my .02.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by missing

that's my thinking. Mato is painting with too broad a brush. The tendency to shame people who are considering suicide seems to me inhumane and not compassionate at all. These are people at the end of their rope and you want to kick them when they are down? I mean I expect that from more fundamentalist religions but not those who are supposedly more spiritually enlightened. Of course it's possible that all suicide is a mortal sin on the "other side" but if so than I seriously question whether or not I want to be a part of such a universe in anyway, if there is any choice in the matter. Suffering for the sake of suffering does not seem to me like a good way to achieve spiritual growth. I think if you are suffering so much you'd consider killing yourself it's a sign you are doing something really wrong. At which point fixing things in this life might be futile.

But that's just my .02.

Fair enough. You are free to feel and think whatever you want. But it's been my experience in dealing with the dead - both of their own choice and not - that I'm not painting with a broad brush at all.

We learn most from our pain and struggles - both as individuals and as a species. I have sat at the bedsides of those who were dying. I've watched as they've realized that their tasks were done here. I've also watched people fight for every last breath because they weren't.

I've crossed over spirits who were so heart-broken and anguished that I can't express in words the level of despair they've felt. And I've failed to break through the shell of hate an anger that enshrouded others to the point where they couldn't even accept that there could be something beyond their own hurt.

Almost universally - again "in my experience" - those who take their own lives out of shame, guilt or despair have such low vibrational states that they are unable to continue their journey alone without help.

That being said, I also watched people throw themselves out of the windows of the World Trade Center after the planes struck them to escape the flames and smoke. I have gone there and sought out those souls. I did not find them. This tells me that there are cases in which we DO have a choice in how we die if it's the time for us to do so. And I believe that our Guides, Angels and Allies are there for us when we make that decision.

[caimaan]

What is the basis for all of these assertions about the afterlife consequences of suicide? Is this pure conjecture? Have people arrived at their spiritual hypothesis using the common logic we have developed here on earth in the flesh ? Why do people lend so much weight to these ideas?

It seems worthwhile posing the question seeing as people seem to hold these meaning-of-life convictions as some sort of gospel.

I know the afterlife phenomenon of the life review is well established in the medical field, and this could certainly be interpreted as an indication of some purposefulness of life.

So...anyone care to comment on this?

[carolynggme]

Suicide is not easy to accomplish! Been there, tried that. I want it, but I'm a wuss. There must be a way! All the posts I've read here are from relatively young folk, considering it on a rather existential level. I have many reasons that you don't want to hear. I'll say only that I am 67 with severe rheumatoid arthritis, & alone. Any of you tried that? The pro argument becomes less existential from my perspective. I've come to the conclusion that no life can't be any worse than the lack of life. PLEASE! no religious or mystic clap-trap! Anyone?