If you can astral project, why not prove it?

[tomn8er]

The whole concept of astral projection seems like fantasy to me. I want to believe it is a real possibility, but I am having trouble doing with such a lack of evidence. I'm wondering, if people can do this, why don't they attempt to prove it? If you can astral project, wouldn't that mean you could spy on others in your astral form, and thus know things that you could otherwise not possibly know? For instance, if I tell an astral projector my exact location and when I will be there, they should be able to AP to my location and then tell me later what I was doing at that time.

I remember asking Steve's wife Erin that since she can astral project, does that mean she can spy on people by say, traveling to the White House and keeping tabs on the President? She replied that this normally doesn't work. But logically it should. I've heard that advanced astral projectors can travel anywhere in the world almost instantaneously just by thinking of where they want to go. But then no one really goes into detail about when they have done this or where they have gone. It all seems more than a little fishy to me.

I want some evidence people! Whoever is able to astral project, can you please give me some answers to this question?

[xhironakamurax]

I'm not but my friend is, she's not on this forum though.

Check out.
First video (series of vids) YouTube - Astral Travel: Albert Taylor Pt.1
Albert Taylor-^

Another series YouTube - Astral Projection (1 of 15)
Robert Bruce-^

[psychicpaul]

I read a book on this once, and I'm kind of in the same boat as you. It seems plausable, but it should be much easier to prove than other "psychic" phenomenon, but nobody's done it yet.

Anyways, the author of this book stated that you could travel to anyplace you wanted, but she then said that there was no effective way to prove anything because you're not travelling in the physical world, you're traveling in a different realm all-together. Kind of like a dream world, where there are very few people and some things are quite different from how they are in physical reality. The examples she kept using was that open doors will suddenly close, objects will be in different places, and things like that.

I'm assuming that she would defend the ability to "spy" by using this parallel dimension explanation/excuse.

Hope that helps.

[Lehrling]

I once studied Astral Projection. I went through a course, though I never finished it, or astrally projected, I still got a very brief outline of the theory of the Idea. the man who wrote the study, said to look at the astral plane as a giant rubix cube that goes in all directions and never ends. Each block of this metaphorical cube was a universe of oppurtunity. each one of these blocks had it's uniqueness. If you could ever dream of a possibility, it exists in one of these so called "blocks." Now, this may be correct or incorrect, as there may be human error (especially on my part). And proving this would truly prove to be difficult. But if you listen to part one and two of the Albert Taylor interview that was provided by xhironakamurax, you may see that if you can go to a place you've never been before, e.g. The White House,
you could view what the president's bedroom really looks like, and then perhaps, research it, and see if the information matches up. Savvy?

[xhironakamurax]

I'm pretty sure the CIA still uses it, because they did for project "stargate".

[Jarrod]

Why not set aside 3-6 months to really work on astral projection and lucid dreaming? Then you could use your own experience to make judgments.

Personally reading about other people who have set up a card somewhere that they can't see and then check it through projection leaves to many questions. Your own exploration is best.

[tomn8er]

Originally Posted by Jarrod

Why not set aside 3-6 months to really work on astral projection and lucid dreaming? Then you could use your own experience to make judgments.

Personally reading about other people who have set up a card somewhere that they can't see and then check it through projection leaves to many questions. Your own exploration is best.

Yeah I really should. I've tried learning to lucid dream before, and developed a pretty consistent dream recall. I even achieved brief lucidity on a couple of occasions, but immediately woke up. I still feel like I'm a looong way off from astral projection, but hey, I guess we all have to start somewhere.

I guess my thing is that I'm pretty impatient and I just wanted to better understand this phenomenon logically because that's how I tend to think about things.

[Savage]

When I astral project, I virtually never do so in the physical universe. Even when it looks like the physical universe, I'm pretty sure it isn't. After all... my eyes and ears and other physical senses are turned off, so I'm not sensing physical stuff like I would if I was awake. It's like I'm sensing the energy patterns instead, and my mind is interpreting them as familiar sensory patterns.

So as far as proving that I can detect stuff elsewhere in the physical universe, that makes no sense to me. I'm fairly certain I'm not in the physical universe when I'm astral. And much of the time, I'm off in some other dimension that looks nothing at all like the physical world.

Astral projection basically means that you're exploring reality with your consciousness but not your body or your physical senses. I suspect this is the state of being we enter after our bodies die.

[Erin Pavlina]

We also need to clarify the difference between an out of body experience and astral projection.

Like Steve mentioned, when you go astral you are entering a different plane of existence. Things in the physical don't translate over there. When I was in my astral warrior days the usual pattern was "lower entity wants a piece of me, I leave my body and kick some ass, return to body and have a smoke." Totally different plane and I can tell you that I wasn't that concerned with flying over to my friend's house to see what he wore to bed (if anything! )

An out of body experience however usually happens spontaneously due to trauma, like when you get hit by a car or are undergoing surgery which can disconnect you with your body. In those cases you will see what's going on in the room and you could report back on what you see. Many people who have left their bodies during surgery have been able to report on things they saw but which they could not possibly know or see with their eyes.

Do some research. There are books and websites with all this info. Keep searching

[Calculusaurus]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

We also need to clarify the difference between an out of body experience and astral projection.

Isn't astral projection just a specific interpretation of an OBE?

In terms of OBE's, they're very real. Read a book by Susan Blackmore.

The scientific problem lies in the psychic phenomena people claim to experience while out of body. The book I read on OBEs went through all of the major experiments up to the year the book was published. There were not any convincing or conclusive positive results. But that's been the scientific status of psychic phenomena in general, or at least the perceived scientific status.

I don't care to take sides on that debate, but several people have tried to confirm in labratory settings their psychic abilities while out of body. Most studies are met with difficulties. A popular method is to set up some object in another room and have the OBE-er travel there and say what the object is. They usually don't get it right.

[Savage]

I don't see how physical science could measure a non-physical phenomenon like AP... at least not with any meaningful degree of precision.

[amixa]

hmmm
yes i would agree about getting your own experience to prove it exists. perhaps we are not meant to be able to proove it scientifically yet :P
i understand your impatience completely too
your essence is to what i have been told recently 3 feet in diametre around you. i have had two outer body experiences without any sort of trauma.. and it didn't really make sense until i found out about how wide your essence is. i don't recommend starving or not eating properly or whatever but when i was younger i was really picky with food and i didn't drink much water so i was often dehydrated and undernourished. on a hot summer day i had been walking home from the library and all of a sudden my conscious mind blacked out for just a second or two as i was walking down the street. i didn't fall i was still going about walking and i just happened to be passing by another person. i remember looking at that person and looking down again but as my mind became unconscious i saw this image of the guy's face but much closer.. up until recently i didn't understand how i had received this close up image of this person 'like i was watching a movie with the ability to zoom in'. so when i recently found out about how we extend 3 feet outwards it made total sense.
the other time was when i had fallen asleep on the couch when i was little and my mom came to tell me to go to bed. although i do remember parts of me walking up the stairs or the feeling of it and the feeling of my clutching the pillow much of it was not there.. except this image of me walking towards the stairs but i was watching myself from behind slightly above my own height. i could also see the pillow in my arms.

those were just 'glimpses' of not being within my body if you can call it that but it wasn't enough time to actually try and consider the possibility of leaving my own body.
i'm not quite sure but i did try and test it out after a few days of attempting to clear my chakras and feeling more upbeat and energized because i was in the beginning of really changing my diet to a healthier one..
i'm not even quite sure if this is what i think it was but i didn't try and leave my body altogether, but when i was at the door waiting for a friend to come out, she has this dog that loves me but i imagined my essence dipping in passed the door and playing with him while he was there. he usually just barks and runs off to tell my friend i'm here but this time he stayed behind the door. when she opened the door he busted out (he never does) and was extraordinarily happy to see me. after about an hour or so usually this dog only really cares about what he cares about but he was staring at me this time with this great intent.. not to tell me he wants food or wants to be pet but i got a sense of this greater knowledge he obtained and was communicating with me. but i'm not quite sure what that was :P
anyway something for you to experiment with in the future if you know people with pets. its not really astral projection but i imagine its good practice towards it? (maybe i'm talking out of my ass here)

[Calculusaurus]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I don't see how physical science could measure a non-physical phenomenon like AP... at least not with any meaningful degree of precision.

The book I read was...
Amazon.com: Beyond the Body: An Investigation of Out-Of-The-Body Experiences: Susan J. Blackmore: Books

Many studies have been done on OBEs to try and prove the "physical aspect" of the phenomena, if there is one.

In one experiment, they took a random number and displayed it in another room. The subject, who was a practiced OBE-er, induced an OBE and flew to the other room to read it. When she'd return to her body, she'd tell the researchers what she saw.

She never guessed the right number, except in one instance where the EEG showed she actually got up and went to the other room!

This was one of many studies, and all gave the same results.

Again, I'm not taking sides--I've never had an OBE. But a lot of people think that OBE's occur in the "physical plane" (as opposed to occuring in your head or in some ethereal plane; take your pick). And studies have been done to try and verify this. None of those studies confirm that the "OBE world" accurately resembles the "objective world," aside from the fact that your memories show a resemblance to the objective world.

To the original poster -- you're asking if, when you have an OBE, why can't you go to the white house and keep tabs on the president? Why haven't practiced OBE-ers tried to verify their abilities?

Again, they've tried. This topic has been dealt with extensively and you're probably better off getting your answers from a book rather than a forum. Again, dozens of studies can be found in the Susan Blackmore book:
Amazon.com: Beyond the Body: An Investigation of Out-Of-The-Body Experiences: Susan J. Blackmore: Books

So, the conclusion? Based on the studies, either the "OBE world" is based on psychological hallucination (I don't mean "hallucination" in a condescending way, but it's a more accurate term than "dream") or it occurs in something more mysterious like an "astral plane" or the like.

[tomn8er]

Hey guys, thanks for all of your replies. Calculusaurus, I'll be sure to check out that book, it sounds really interesting. As a psychology student, this type of research is something I am considering getting into, so it would be a great read for me.

I also thought it was especially cool that both Steve and Erin replied to my question. As to what Steve said about his astral experiences... that is very interesting to me. I always assumed that any astral voyages would take place in the physical universe we are all familiar with, just with some added illusions (for lack of a better term). But I got the impression that for the most part the astral realm and the physical were mostly the same, the main difference being that you experience the former without using the body. Yeah I'll be sure to do some more reading on this subject.

[xhironakamurax]

Just while we're still on the AP thing, does anyone know why sometimes when I'm sitting down or lying down, I want to get up and like launch my self outwards? Not physically, my astral body.

[daj]

There's something else called "Remote Viewing" which is interesting.
Remote viewing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think many get better results with that when it comes to getting information about a subject. A long time ago I use to be skeptical about it, and posted on the GRILLFLAME REMOTE VIEWING GROUP forums. I asked for someone to tell me what my name was. One of the guys got it right, and he even told me that 2 other people use my computer. He saw in his mind when he focused on me, the window's login screen of my computer with 3 seperate accounts, and 1 was my name. Made a believer out of me.

[amixa]

oh thanks for that.. i forgot about remote viewing.. i suppose that's what i experienced...

[FurtherTreacle]

The morning after an OBE meditation, I usually find myself awake with my astral body situated within my physical body. I will be immobilized, but not completely paralyzed. If I try hard enough, I can move my body. When this happens, I know I can get up out of my body. There is usually some indicator in the environment which alerts me that this isn't the physical world. Otherwise I find it difficult to tell the difference.

Once, I found that when I tried to speak, I sounded like a bird. Another time, I could hear a couple of friends of mine talking from beneath my bed. Another time, my bedspread was hovering in the air near the ceiling. Another time, there was horse, in mid stride -- seemingly frozen in time -- sticking out of the wall above my bed. Another time, I awoke to find myself levitating and spinning around in circles over my bed, unable to control it.

To me, the setting has always matched that of my real surroundings, including any people who are in the room with me at the time.

I've spoken to two people who say I just appeared in their room in the middle of the night, and they thought I was really there. I don't recall experiencing either of those events myself, but I did do the meditation both of the nights in question. Unfortunately, this leads to more questions than answers. However, whatever "it" is, it's for real.

"It" does exist. You can probably do it within a couple weeks of practice. Begin by writing down everything you remember from your dreams in the morning until you can fill a couple of pages (this should happen within the first few days). While continuing to do this at least a few times a week, start doing the "Middle Pillar" exercise (minus the Solar Plexus center). It is a chakra-energizing meditation. You can find out how with Google, I'm sure.

At the end of the Middle Pillar, push your energy body out through your Solar Plexus and form it into your desired shape (your ideal self or your idea of "you"). Imagine you are a few feet away from your actual body and use all your senses from that location. Feel, smell, taste, hear, and then see your surroundings. Don't worry if you can't actually sense anything. That's not the point of the exercise. What you're doing is telling your unconscious that you want it to do this.

This is how I learned. If you do these two things for a couple of weeks, it should start to work. If you're like me, you will wake up to find yourself either already out of -- but near -- your body, or you will be awake and aware, but you'll feel paralyzed. If this occurs, then just try to wiggle your way out and get up. It should work. I have to redo the Middle Pillar if I wake up in the middle of the night, but if I that ever happens (if I wake up around 5 hours after falling asleep and redo the meditation) then I have always projected in the morning before really waking up.

Beware any other entities you find in your bed with you. Touch them if you want. I can't say I wouldn't, but ... hmm... you might not want to.

[MartialDev]

These kinds of studies have been done, and after they are done, someone invariably accuses the researchers of cheating, error, or delusion.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Steve said exactly what I was going to say. You can't prove anything that is not in the physical realm. I've never had an AP, but I have an idea of what it's like. It is an out of body experience in another reality. Good luck proving that. In order to prove it, you would have to experience it. I think that would be all the proof you need. Go for it and see if you can AP into an alternate universe.

[Jon Tore]

Like FurtherTreacle, I also experience paralyzed states in the morning normally 2-4 times a week (sleep paralysis) and I've later read about OBE/astral projection related to this. For me, it's very hard to prove even to myself that what's going on is real out of body projections. What I DO know now, however, is that something incredibly fishy is going on if it's all just my brain. The experiences are so extremely complicated, and to my relief, have a lot in common with other people who experience sleep paralysis too. For example the high raising PITCH that goes up and up until you start floating in all sorts of weird positions. I'm sure some crazy scientist could say that all humans's brains just work like that and hallucinate about all the same things the same way their instincts tell them to breastfeed as babies. But when I add up all my extremely weird experiences, it's too psycho to believe it's not magic after all. And after reading other people's stories it pretty much convinces my conscious mind. The subconscious mind is probably stubborn as heck until I experience stuff that just COULDN'T be some mindwaves getting lost.

What I can say about sleep paralysis though is that it's very confusing and it can be both exciting, too exciting, delightful, frightening, hilarious (at least.. it can go from frightening.. then when you wake up and realized what just happened, it's hilarious) and weird.. and unclear.

Here's a friend's story floating around without my body?!

[Kishka]

I think it's just another layer of the illusion. If you can 'leave' your body, then you believe that your body exists.

If you believe that everything is an illusion, including your body, there's nothing to 'leave'...

[wstein]

Why would I want to? I know it happens, I experience it. I can't say for sure if it's all in my head or it has objective truth. Since I have no doubt why should I want to prove it to you a complete stranger?

This question comes up all the time. There have been many attempts to prove it. Whatever the evidence or lack of it, non-believers still don't believe. I addition there is always ridicule for believing something (anything) outside the mainstream. This is usually not based on whether the belief is true or not but rather just based on it being different. There are several 'challenges' out there offering money. They are rigged so no one can win. Read up on Astral Dynamics where Robert Bruce talks about his experience.

----
Take a similar situation that I can ask in all honesty. Prove to me that you have a strong feelings (a bond if you will) with your parents. Many claim this occurs naturally in families but I have not experienced it. You have never proved it, no one will.

How are you going to prove it? I can easily claim it's all in your head and not real. You probably know whether or not you have such a bond, so what would be your motivation to prove it to me?

[Jon Tore]

Also, I've heard several stories of people who actually have "proved it"/got it right. Stuff they couldn't possibly know otherwise, but I guess those stories are lying dusting down somewhere.

And I read an interesting experiment someone did where a group of people *sent* certain images to a person in the house in his sleep, and he was supposed to tell them what he saw or what he dreamt, and it made sense.

[Sweetgirl83]

I am also a skeptic but at the same time there are some things that have happened to me that there is just no way science can explain it. I haven't been able to fully project but hope one day I will.

I think that even if we had 100% proof that it was possible, most of society would not accept it because after all it goes against what most religions teach. Kind of like the possibility of life in other planets.

[Weena]

If you read the books by doctor Monroe you will read many proofs in there. I haven't had astral travels (that i can remember) yet but here's a story from my best friend that proves it happens:

She was underaged at the time this one happened, and her twin sister went to a bar with a friend. My friend was at home in bed worrying for her twin. She left her body, flew above the city, flew through the door of the bar and found herself in front of the two girls. She kept waving at her sister then realised people couldn't see her. So she listened to the conversation then went back home. when her sister came back my friend reported with who she was out and what they were talking about.

That's a proof, right?

Now MY question about all this is: shouldn't there be a rule of courtesy when people OBE? I mean what if OBE-ers come to your house as you are taking a dump??? Isn't that a little rude? Can you ask an astral guardian at your door when you're busy? My friend said she came to my house a few months ago but we were all asleep so she didn't stay. I kind of think, but what if i was in a moment i don't want to share? (busy in the bathroom...or in the bedroom???????). Does anyone know about this?

[Jon Tore]

Originally Posted by Weena

If you read the books by doctor Monroe you will read many proofs in there. I haven't had astral travels (that i can remember) yet but here's a story from my best friend that proves it happens:

She was underaged at the time this one happened, and her twin sister went to a bar with a friend. My friend was at home in bed worrying for her twin. She left her body, flew above the city, flew through the door of the bar and found herself in front of the two girls. She kept waving at her sister then realised people couldn't see her. So she listened to the conversation then went back home. when her sister came back my friend reported with who she was out and what they were talking about.

That's a proof, right?

Now MY question about all this is: shouldn't there be a rule of courtesy when people OBE? I mean what if OBE-ers come to your house as you are taking a dump??? Isn't that a little rude? Can you ask an astral guardian at your door when you're busy? My friend said she came to my house a few months ago but we were all asleep so she didn't stay. I kind of think, but what if i was in a moment i don't want to share? (busy in the bathroom...or in the bedroom???????). Does anyone know about this?

YouTube - ANOTHER TRUE ASTRAL PROJECTION STORY (OCCURED 4 YEARS AGO)
This guy is very honest and has many good youtube videos. This video has a good answer I think

[Weena]

Oh! GOOD! good to know it can't be used to peep into people's privacy thanks for the link!

[dende]

Originally Posted by Calculusaurus

The book I read was...
Amazon.com: Beyond the Body: An Investigation of Out-Of-The-Body Experiences: Susan J. Blackmore: Books

Many studies have been done on OBEs to try and prove the "physical aspect" of the phenomena, if there is one.

In one experiment, they took a random number and displayed it in another room. The subject, who was a practiced OBE-er, induced an OBE and flew to the other room to read it. When she'd return to her body, she'd tell the researchers what she saw.

She never guessed the right number, except in one instance where the EEG showed she actually got up and went to the other room!

This was one of many studies, and all gave the same results.

Again, I'm not taking sides--I've never had an OBE. But a lot of people think that OBE's occur in the "physical plane" (as opposed to occuring in your head or in some ethereal plane; take your pick). And studies have been done to try and verify this. None of those studies confirm that the "OBE world" accurately resembles the "objective world," aside from the fact that your memories show a resemblance to the objective world.

To the original poster -- you're asking if, when you have an OBE, why can't you go to the white house and keep tabs on the president? Why haven't practiced OBE-ers tried to verify their abilities?

Again, they've tried. This topic has been dealt with extensively and you're probably better off getting your answers from a book rather than a forum. Again, dozens of studies can be found in the Susan Blackmore book:
Amazon.com: Beyond the Body: An Investigation of Out-Of-The-Body Experiences: Susan J. Blackmore: Books

So, the conclusion? Based on the studies, either the "OBE world" is based on psychological hallucination (I don't mean "hallucination" in a condescending way, but it's a more accurate term than "dream") or it occurs in something more mysterious like an "astral plane" or the like.

Hello , I know I'm kind of late with this, but i have done alot of reading on Lucid Dreaming and Astral Projection, in Lucid Dreaming, one of the techniques to discover that you are dreaming, is to look at a watch, and see the numbers dissolved, I do not know if it is the same concept in Astral Projection but if it is, they may report other numbers because the Astral body see another number than the Physical body would.
-Dende

[Rookie]

I don't know how I'd prove it. The first night I tried it, I actually did it, but like an earlier poster said there were many differences from the physical realm:

1. My door was open instead of closed;

2. All the lights in my house were on;

3. Either I was in an alternate universe or in a twisted past, because my mother had a baby girl with her, and I later realized that tue person that looked like my mother along with the babies were "demons" (I call 'em illusions, so they don't seem as scary) - how do I know? The baby had superhuman strength and cursed me out, lol.

Also, I had a little run-in with some insect monsters in some familiar locations. It's real, just hard to prove, it would seem.