Is afterworld taking care of human monsters

[Mayo]

Recently came the case of Austrian and this week French pedophilic incestoust rapists that imprisoned(one physically and mentally, other more mentally than physically) and they both will pass almost unharmed in this world. French monster actually passed away in peace. Interesting thing is that both men made their unfortunate daughters 6 offspring each...(austrian monster made 7 but it ended at 6).

My question is do their souls end up in eternal limbo or do they end up again as vampiric wondering souls.

[Jennihul]

None of your business. All of theirs.

Everyone gets the life review when they die.

Not everyone on earth who we judge as "bad" or "immoral" are here for evil purposes. Some are lightworkers bringing important lessons for humanity's growth and choosing a terribly difficult life as a sacrifice so that we as humans may grow to the next level.

The real evil ones are the people that, after the lessons are given and the life sacrificed, still live as if they learned nothing. Most of these people living as if they learned nothing think of themselves as "good."

Ironic, no?

Jennifer

[Mayo]

Jennifer, personally i still think that society is capable of progressing further without such entities. We all have daemons but the majority is still capable of calming them down, there is a vicious minority that uses fear mongering to subdue their victims and those victims rarely learn something new excerpt to either bend over even more or to hit even harder than the predators had hit on them.
Ecce homo.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by Mayo

Jennifer, personally i still think that society is capable of progressing further without such entities. We all have daemons but the majority is still capable of calming them down, there is a vicious minority that uses fear mongering to subdue their victims and those victims rarely learn something new excerpt to either bend over even more or to hit even harder than the predators had hit on them.
Ecce homo.

One cannot appreciate light without darkness. Nor love without disdain.

We judge things by their counterparts and the opposite and radical ends of every spectrum define the middle.

[Cran]

Originally Posted by Mayo

My question is do their souls end up in eternal limbo or do they end up again as vampiric wondering souls.

Ultimately, we cannot know that, as we have no reliable sources that tell us how life after death looks like - if there is such.

So, if you believe in an "eternal limbo" (that would be hell), it is possible, but not necessary, that such person are trapped there (christianity would point out that it will depend on their remorse).

If you believe that beings who inflict such wrongs on other beings hurt basic natural rules in such a way that their souls suffer... yes, they will end up as vampiric souls, however you define that.

If you believe in reincarnation, you might make a good bet that this life won't be their last go.

If you believe that there is nothing after death, obviously, they won't be punished after death.

[Jennihul]

Originally Posted by Mayo

Jennifer, personally i still think that society is capable of progressing further without such entities. We all have daemons but the majority is still capable of calming them down, there is a vicious minority that uses fear mongering to subdue their victims and those victims rarely learn something new excerpt to either bend over even more or to hit even harder than the predators had hit on them.
Ecce homo.

What if they hit on the predator first? Maybe that lesson is be careful what you wish for or be true to your word if you were teasing. Even young people have life lessons to learn.

Well, since Hitler kindley showed us what happens when ego and neurosis are allowed to nearly rule the world, has genocide stopped? Uh..that would be no. His lesson to humanity was massive and very very clear. Yet people still try to annihilate whole cultures and races with their own versions of ego and neurosis out of control.

I think most humans are not very good at all at learning lessons or supressing much in the way of their less than spiritual sides.

Jennifer

[Mayo]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

I think most humans are not very good at all at learning lessons or supressing much in the way of their less than spiritual sides.

Unfortunately we are constructed that way, my wish would be that humanity finally gets in harmonic equilibrium but that is far away & maybe will never be achieved.

[Jennihul]

I am optomistic. The best way to start is by loving rather than judging. You know..."in His likeness?"



Jennifer

[Revolution]

There is no evil. Everyone is doing their best given their present understanding of the world. Perfection cannot not exist. All is literally perfect. As Mato pointed out there is no "good" without "bad".

A person that we call bad will simply get reincarnated later on. (Hopefully at a more evolved perspective!)

How do you know that in the past life of the "victim" he or she did not behave in the same manner to someone else??? Who is guilty now? Who is the perpetrator now?

Its often hard to know just how "wrong" something is until it happens to us. That is what it is all about - lessons.

Some people say "Oh, but he should have known better!" I'll tell you something: NOBODY KNOWS BETTER! than what they do.
If they knew better then why would they have done it in the first place. Clearly they thought it was in their best interests.

Its not a question of good/bad or better/worse its a question of less aware/more aware.

[nightdiamond]

One way of looking at this,

I think at this present state of human development, it makes sense to classify certain things as "evil" or "wrong". Otherwise we can say Hitler was no different than the rest of us, and what he caused was neither right or wrong. But when one speaks to his direct victims, they seem to have little trouble clasifying him as evil.

The reason why we still talk about Hitler today is because he did ... "evil" or "wrong"......and caused tremendous suffering.. He had many chances in his life to change his thinking, rethink his beliefs, think about what his actions would cause and say, "ughhh, noo" and didn't do it...

At one point in his life, he had access to money and power to change his country for the better instead of directing it towards warefare...

If he couldn't do those things then that was his own fault and responsibility, because "the rest of us" are constantly changing our minds, rethinking our actions and controlling ourselves so we don't make things worse, hurt other people... in other words, things that tyrants do... it may not seem that way, but I think we do...

Maybe, that is one of the reasons why we might classify a person as evil as opposed to good, or at least ordinary ....

I think it is natural for people to want to know what will happen to an "evil doer" ... these types of questions have a lot to do with meaning and purpose of life and quality of life, and are usually the first questions people ask when they began to take spirituallity seriously...

If the life review is real then it seems like enough- to experience your victim's pain and then decide to accept another life in which this person becomes a victim..to reconsile and to learn..... no arguement about that here!

Take care and discuss amongst yourselves people!

[Gayathri]

There are times in our lives when we all did something or the other that would be perceived as "evil" or "bad" by others, and also by ourselves, in retrospect.

We all have times in our lives when we behave with less-than-perfect intentions and awareness, in differing levels.

Later, sometimes much later, we realise the error of our ways. We repent. Some choose to keep beating themselves up for their faults, some forgive themselves and move on. Some get punished for their behaviours (thinking in terms of subjective reality, they intended punishment upon themselves).

What if we think about this in a larger picture? What if this life is just a "phase" in our soul's path to Nirvana/Moksha/Ether? And what if this is a faulty phase - one big mistake? What if, in further phases, the soul takes lives of self-induced punishment, repentance, renewal etc? Who are we to judge, when we may have had bad lives in our own past? Since we can't even completely explain our own journey, how can we expect to define, let alone judge, others' journeys? Just a different perspective on this.

It is all part of some unknown cosmic dance - if anyone has answers, please let me know. I am looking for them too.

[freedom]

Scientists have studied the universe - right back to the big bang, and no further because the closer they get their calculations only work out to one thing!

That thing is singularity

We are all made within God which is that singularity

To proclaim otherwise would mean that there would be something else other than God in existence - and as we all know in religion it tells us that, that is blasphemy.

The bible tells us about original sin - was the sin to eat the apple? NO - the sin was only in disobeying God,

To disobey God we need to seperate from God

Therefore the only original sin is Seperation from God.
God is Grace, the divine spark within and without

If God is a singularity - How does it know anything? Like a newborn babe, it knows only what it experiences. Therefore it must learn through experience - and how do we learn?

Through experience!

I believe that God has to learn through all these experiences in order to define what God is.
and also that time is non existent to God - that God has already experienced, defined and redefined Gods existence and therefore is instantly self knowing.
I believe that we are God and that we define what we are.
Several of you have already spoken out against what happened to that young woman - the majority has spoken!
God is Good!
Punishment is irrelevant - since we are all God, how can we punish ourself?
Certainly I believe that God in the end will evaluate this portion of God's self and decide whether its personality should survive or whether it has served its purpose and is extinguished.

[Jennihul]

Originally Posted by Revolution

There is no evil. Everyone is doing their best given their present understanding of the world. Perfection cannot not exist. All is literally perfect. As Mato pointed out there is no "good" without "bad".

A person that we call bad will simply get reincarnated later on. (Hopefully at a more evolved perspective!)

How do you know that in the past life of the "victim" he or she did not behave in the same manner to someone else??? Who is guilty now? Who is the perpetrator now?

Its often hard to know just how "wrong" something is until it happens to us. That is what it is all about - lessons.

Some people say "Oh, but he should have known better!" I'll tell you something: NOBODY KNOWS BETTER! than what they do.
If they knew better then why would they have done it in the first place. Clearly they thought it was in their best interests.

Its not a question of good/bad or better/worse its a question of less aware/more aware.

Yay! Where is the clapping hands smiley? Oh, my other forum.

Jennifer

[fellowtraveler]

I've always felt that some people are more "human" than others; some, perhaps not at all. This thinking of course would be quite unpopular in today's conception of all men being created equal (which is patently untrue on the face of it, and is really shorthand for "all men should have equal opportunities").

Perhaps these "monsters" aren't human at all, but meat puppets injected into society to serve a specific purpose, maybe as a sort of vaccine (which builds up resistance but can make you sick at the same time).

[nightdiamond]

Hi again everyone....I learn alot from these discussions, and personally I think discussing topics like these help to aid what you would call a person's spiritual evolution..

So for the topic we've discussed so far, here's another point to throw in, if no one minds...

What if evil and good are advanced concepts?

There may have been a time when humans, being cavemen, or very primitive had no concept whatsoever of evil or good.. they may have simply stole when they wanted, killed when they wanted, ect. Only when humans evolved more and started classifying these actions and the affects it had on others did it start to become under control.


If there is no evil or good, or concept of right or wrong then what would be the need to have an afterlife review in the first place? (As far as what the person's victims have felt)

What if then a person who does commit certain acts never reincarnates as a victim who experiences what the victim went through, but simply goes on to experience a safe, healthy and wealthy peaceful life in his or her's next life?

Would those who believe in karma feel comfortable about this?

One of the things we as humans do is take things in the physical universe and classify them by concept, like that low energy, fatigue, can't keep eyes open sensation someone feels when they've been active for over 17 hours.. we call it "sleepy" or "tired" ..the opposite is "awake" and "alert" or simply, "not sleepy"..

Another example are those people that get up on a stage in front of an audience and tell funny stories and jokes to get the audience to laugh... we classify them as comedians... We also classify their jokes as funny and not funny... or appropriate and not appropriate...

And taking that into account, would we mind then if an adult comedian goes to elementary school and performs in front of 6 to 12 year olds and makes very adult jokes involving sex, bad language and other things?

Should we deny that there is no such thing as comedy and funny or what is not funny?

And why do I sound like a philosphy major all of the sudden?

Anyway please enjoy the discussion, tell me something I don't know yet, and take care, have a nice weekend everyone...

[freedom]

Classifications are rules
rules are made by people who choose what is right or wrong - good or bad
If someone doesn't like something they class that as bad

If therefore a dictator or a murderer likes what he or she does they they class that as good
And if they were in power then they would make that a rule, or a law and the rest of their country would behave in that way
The human race learns from one another - If you are born into a world that knows only one thing - then it follows that you would probably learn to love or accept that one thing.
So we have variety. ( Is that a good or bad thing?)

[Jennihul]

Variety is fine but sometimes the variety of societal whims changes much faster than the primal urges humans have had for tens of thousands of years. So what is 1) natural and 2) formerly acceptable is now a class I felony.

Just part of life in the big city. Ignorance of the law does not excuse you from persecution. People need to get ahold of themselves. On many levels.

Jennifer

[freedom]

Well, I was looking at the larger picture, but If you must - then I don't condone these actions, since I have suffered from a similar ( what you would term as ) injustice myself.
But I have accepted these actions against me and now view them as experiences on the path of learning

[Jennihul]

Freedom, that is the essense of life. I try not to judge things as bad or good. Everything is a learning experience and everyone is learning a different lesson than we are. Consequences happen and should happen when we choose the path that is furthest from enlightenment, or brings us further from enlightenment but they are a necessary part of our ultimate purpose here.


Jennifer

[Buttercat Apocalypse]

Originally Posted by Cran

Ultimately, we cannot know that, as we have no reliable sources that tell us how life after death looks like - if there is such.

So, if you believe in an "eternal limbo" (that would be hell), it is possible, but not necessary, that such person are trapped there (christianity would point out that it will depend on their remorse).

If you believe that beings who inflict such wrongs on other beings hurt basic natural rules in such a way that their souls suffer... yes, they will end up as vampiric souls, however you define that.

If you believe in reincarnation, you might make a good bet that this life won't be their last go.

If you believe that there is nothing after death, obviously, they won't be punished after death.

This is a question I have: if it's all to do with what you believe, why is Erin sure about any of the stuff like reincarnation and life reviews?

What makes a life review necessary where hell or purgatory isn't?

[Jennihul]

Because humanity's ultimate goal is to return to the 'paradise' that we were cast out of.

You don't need a "hell" to learn life lessons and then reincarnate to try again to improve. But you do need a life review. The mistakes you make as an incarnated being are hell. The mistakes other incarnated beings make that affect you are hell. Or even having nothing you need or further desire can be hell. People for whom everything is provided on a silver platter are often the most unhappy, unfilfilled people in existance. That is a version of hell.

Hell is on Earth depending on the choices you make. Not a dark, flaming pit.

nightdiamond's point that evil and good are advanced concepts is interesting. I believe that the recognition that there is a difference between what is good and what is considered by most to be evil is very subjective. In some cased very dangerous to define as all or none. Black or white.

Jennifer