Philippine Psychic Surgery

[Blueskied]

A scene i saw on TV:
A so called psychic doctor opens the patient's body with his bare hands through the belly,neck and back - no anesthesia. He removes dark clumps of flesh, blood comes out.
After the operations no wounds or scars are visible.
Now how does this work? How can the doctor pull out flesh without leaving an opening in the body?
Is he making tiny holes with his fingernails and squeezes the stuff out? Or is it like some magic card trick, so that the clumps and blood don't really come out of the body but out of the doctor's hand?

[Erin Pavlina]

It's a charlatan's trick. He has a fake thumb on his finger with blood inside. As he squishes around in there, all this blood comes out of the fake finger. He pulls the fake, rubbery, fleshy finger off as he's digging in there and it looks like a piece of the patient's innards. Various other methods like this are used. It's not real.

[Jerigan]

I've seen this exposed somewhere as a fake. The 'doctor' already has the 'blood' and stuff prepared. Then uses pressure with his fingers and the patient's expectations of what to feel to make the patient believe the 'doctor' is actually removing flesh from the body.

After he is done 'removing' stuff, the 'doctor' wipes off the fake blood and tells the patient he is better. Apparently this does help some people (placebo effect) but it isn't really a cure for anything.

Edit: Geez Erin you beat me by like 15 seconds.

[elainevdw]

Supposedly, there is such a thing as psychic surgery, but it's on the auric level, not the physical. So you're pulling energy gunk out of a person's energy field, not physical junk out of their physical body.

[JVR]

Has anyone heard of the Brazilian Jose Arigo? He was a psychic surgeon and is researched by scientists. Amongst others he did surgery on a senator and the daughter of a Brazilian president. I´m a sceptic, but there seems to be a lot of evidence that he was the real deal. See for example this link Psychic Surgeon and Healer - Jose Arigo

What do you think?

Jeroen

[Markus74]

In my opinion these healers, and their claims, should be thoroughly analyzed. And if these healers are genuine then they don't have to fear anything from science. And science shouldn't fear them. The important thing is: DOES IT WORK? Do people get healed by it even though we/Science doesn't understand yet how or why? Then it should be studied so that more people can use it, either actively or passively. There are some sporadic instances or methods that seem to work right now but that science can't explain. So what? Use them to heal anyway. That's what counts. An explanation can always be found later on.

But frauds (and there are plenty) should get exposed.

[Tanemon]

With any rare skill - especially of the "psychic" or spiritual varieties, perhaps - it seems there will be charlatans who provide the counterfeit item. Erin and Jerigan spoke to this, above.

But I know there are quite a few people here on the forums who are interested in energy healing, spiritual healing, alternative healing, and related topics. So I thought I'd offer the following...

I have one friend who had bad back trouble after a car accident. He'd had surgery, physiotherapy, the whole bit. Yet he was still in discomfort and often in pain. He got the problem cured in one session by a South American spiritual healer. (He was also allowed, afterwards while he was there, to watch the healer do things like cure skin cancer cases.)

Another person I knew a little (the mother of a friend of mine) had emphysema, a result of many years of cigarette smoking. Oh, yeah, maybe smoking, for her, had some emotionally calming function. But, in any case, she had tempted fate by smoking. Anyhow, she got this condition cured in a single session by a Philippine "psychic surgeon." The cure was confirmed in the X-rays her doctors made when she returned to Canada. The experience convinced her of the power of the spirit... that higher orders of reality are a fact.

Myself, I have not witnessed healings (of physical ailments) at this remarkable level of specificity, promptness, and efficacy.

However, I'm a Reiki-ist. When I got attuned to Reiki and got a lengthy and amazing healing from a powerful Reiki healer, it opened my eyes experientially to some astonishing possibilities. Granted, in the immediate sense these were possibilities that had to do with emotional & mental healing - which also (it turned out) had positive physical effects. But, you know, I became quite open-minded to the idea that there may be healing occurences that - on the physical level - are more astonishing than the ones I've experienced, or seen, occurring via Reiki sessions.

Because I knew these people I previously mentioned personally, I felt inclined to take their stories pretty seriously. There's an "intervention" quality in these stories, and these healings apparently worked pretty directly with the physical.

[AngelPsychic444]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

It's a charlatan's trick. He has a fake thumb on his finger with blood inside. As he squishes around in there, all this blood comes out of the fake finger. He pulls the fake, rubbery, fleshy finger off as he's digging in there and it looks like a piece of the patient's innards. Various other methods like this are used. It's not real.

I bet to disagree, I had psychic surgery performed on me, from Alex Orbito from the Phillipines, this was around 1991, and I didn't have any miraculous healings take place, but the scars I got on my chest and head from my surgery, vanished a few days later. These scars were not just little scratchs either, they were deep, when I woke up one day with them completely gone... I was amazed.

I actually went to this healer just to see what would happen, this took place in Mill Valley, CA. On the one hand the healings he did were sort of strange, it's hard to explain, but on the other hand I think it was an interesting experience, but as I said... no miraculous healings took place with me. All in all, I was glad I went.

This was also the guy who worked on Shirley McClaine in her book (I can't remember the title), so he's quite famous.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Blueskied

A scene i saw on TV:
A so called psychic doctor opens the patient's body with his bare hands through the belly,neck and back - no anesthesia. He removes dark clumps of flesh, blood comes out.
After the operations no wounds or scars are visible.
Now how does this work? How can the doctor pull out flesh without leaving an opening in the body?
Is he making tiny holes with his fingernails and squeezes the stuff out? Or is it like some magic card trick, so that the clumps and blood don't really come out of the body but out of the doctor's hand?

Many are fake. Some of them are real. And no, I can't prove it.

And there are things much stranger than that that are real as well.

[Tanemon]

Originally Posted by AngelPsychic444

I bet to disagree, I had psychic surgery performed on me, from Alex Orbito from the Phillipines, this was around 1991, and I didn't have any miraculous healings take place, but the scars I got on my chest and head from my surgery, vanished a few days later. These scars were not just little scratchs either, they were deep, when I woke up one day with them completely gone... I was amazed.

Not sure... It seems, from the way you've written it here, that the deep scars resulted from the psychic surgery? or were they from an earlier conventional hospital operation?

In any case, the scars did vanish after a few days. Amazing in itself.

You say there were not "any miraculous healings" in your case, but was there some positive, beneficial effect (besides experiencing "a marvel" - with the disappearing scars, I mean)?

[AngelPsychic444]

Originally Posted by Tanemon

Not sure... It seems, from the way you've written it here, that the deep scars resulted from the psychic surgery? or were they from an earlier conventional hospital operation?

In any case, the scars did vanish after a few days. Amazing in itself.

You say there were not "any miraculous healings" in your case, but was there some positive, beneficial effect (besides experiencing "a marvel" - with the disappearing scars, I mean)?

I'm absolutely positive the scars were from the operation, they were even red and a bit swollen the next day, when I first saw them in my bathroom mirror I thought for sure I would have them on my chest and head for the rest of my life, that's how deep they were. When they vanished in a few days... I was like "no way"... I was happy but realized it was part of the healing, and also glad I had something I could actually see that amazed me.

I think my healing if you want to call it that was more subtle, I changed my attitude about a few things right afterward, but didn't expect that. I had thought only physical change would happen. I'm not saying the psychic surgeon was the best but it was an interesting experience.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

It's a charlatan's trick. He has a fake thumb on his finger with blood inside. As he squishes around in there, all this blood comes out of the fake finger. He pulls the fake, rubbery, fleshy finger off as he's digging in there and it looks like a piece of the patient's innards. Various other methods like this are used. It's not real.

There was a documentary on the Brazilian guy mentioned by JVR.

One of the interviewees was this American woman who travelled to Brazil to see him. She told the documentary makers (BBC) that in the US, she had been diagnosed with a large tumour.

Anyway, on TV, the Brazilian guy asks her to face the wall and remove her top. The Brazilian guy then takes a kitchen knife, slices her open and sticks his hand right in, pulls out a large yucky thing, which is supposed to be the tumour.

There's a follow-up. Few months later, the documentary makers interview the woman again, and she confirmed that she had gone back to the doctors, who were amazed that her tumour was gone.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Markus74

In my opinion these healers, and their claims, should be thoroughly analyzed. And if these healers are genuine then they don't have to fear anything from science.

In the same documentary, the Brazilian guy allows scientists from Harvard to study him, while he does his work. Among other things, they attach little devices to his head, to measure his brainwave frequencies while he is supposedly channelling and doing his psychic surgery.

The scientists are amazed to discover that his brainwaves alter to some extremely unusual frequency which should not be possible and is hardly ever seen in human brains.

[Acting Like Godot]

This is the guy:

YouTube - ‪John of God - My Operation in Brazil‬‏

Plenty of Youtube videos.

[Tanemon]

When we talk of this kind of healer, the person who accomplishes this very impressive and objectively verifiable result, it's as though we're talking about a virtuoso of physical healing. I have no idea whether the ones in Brazil or the Philippines also do "inner" healing, where the result is felt in terms of improved personal outlook, lifted mood, greater emotional and mental clarity, more inner balance, and that kinda thing.

It seems likely to me that societies in the Phillipines and regions of South America also do have healers who work with issues of the inner person, though.

And I should say that it's not quite right, probably, to say that this kind of healer "accomplishes" the healing - since I think he or she would acknowledge that they are a channel for the healing, and it's not done by their own ego or volition.

By the way, I'll add something. I once stayed in a yoga-style ashram in the countryside in California. When I arrived for a month-long retreat, people at the ashram told me that a few days prior to my arrival a psychic surgeon had been there and done some healings. They said they watched him do eye surgery by putting his finger (painlessly) into a person's eye. From what they said, they were able to be close enough that they were convinced it was not a deception - and they said the person's vision was improved.