Process vs goals

[SamDeen]

Hi everyone

I'm the kind of person who doesn't care of what people think of the way i plan and the way i process to achieve my goals.

But my question remains, is the process of more important than the goal?

It seems that most self help book emphasize on the process but i think most of highly successful people are goal oriented or are remembered for the goals they achieved.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by SamDeen

Hi everyone

I'm the kind of person who doesn't care of what people think of the way i plan and the way i process to achieve my goals.

But my question remains, is the process of more important than the goal?

It seems that most self help book emphasize on the process but i think most of highly successful people are goal oriented or are remembered for the goals they achieved.

If i understood you well, you're asking wheter the goal or the process itself and what people think of it is more important?


As long you dont intend on killing somebody or doing something very harmful to socieety, i agree with you, achieving the goal is certainly more important than the process itself, and do not care for what other people think of it, but sometimes listening to other people can be benefical because maybe they can help you on making your process better.

Concluding, listen to constructive criticism but dont give a damn about destructive criticism.

[Shamou]

Hello and welcome aboard SamDeen...

Excellent thread...

Is the process of more important than the goal?

Think of it in terms of sports... which is more important... playing the game or winning the the cup...???

The cup is the reward... but the important part is playing the game...

Same in life... if you only work for the reward... your life will be long and dull... however if your work is also your passion... no matter what... you're already a winner... no matter what...

Plus, if you observe, every winner was passionate about what he was doing... the eyes were on the goal... but the heart was on work...

.

[Sunnybayes]

Having a goal in your mind is a process. Having an end state in your mind lets you have a good process.

If there is an end goal, and you don't specifically make that goal, it wouldn't have been waste. You'd have learned tonnes of knowlege that could apply to other areas.

from the context of the thread in my signature:
when your conciousness focuses on a goal that has its invariant representations defined far enough down to the movement circuits of your brain, then the goal is the process.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Sunnybayes

Having a goal in your mind is a process. Having an end state in your mind lets you have a good process.

If there is an end goal, and you don't specifically make that goal, it wouldn't have been waste. You'd have learned tonnes of knowlege that could apply to other areas.

from the context of the thread in my signature:
when your conciousness focuses on a goal that has its invariant representations defined far enough down to the movement circuits of your brain, then the goal is the process.

That sounds really, really good... except I just don't know what the hell you are talking about...

Could someone 'splain it to me...???

.

[as5tx]

Very interesting thread.

My experience says that process is the only important thing and not the result. Of course, the result is what we shd be aiming for but then any consideration for the result ends there. After you fix the result, the next thing is to formulate the process after that you forget the result and focus only on the process. The reason is simple, carefully follow my argument---
Suppose you want to achieve a target, say, you want to achieve a particular grade in college. Then if youre result oriented , you'll want to achieve that goal come what may and MOST IMPORTANTLY if you don't achieve that result, you'll consider yourself as having failed. And friends, the end result is not in our hands, there are many factors, all of which are not under our control. We may or may not be aware of all of these factors. Those that we are aware of, we take care of them . For eg we study, research, work hard etc. This is what is the process. But as far as the out of control factors are concerned, we may or may not know about them. If we do, then we take that into account in our process. Otherwise they'll simply be things that have the potential to derail our result. And if they do, then we'll be wrongly assuming responsibility for smthing beyond our control. Following a process gives you the best chance of winning.
Let me assume you contradict me. Let us fix a simple target of going to London from New York. If youre target oriented you'll take nothing short of reaching your destination. But a process oriented person will measure success by the arrangements that he's made to cmplete his travel successfully. He is more SYSTEMATIC in his arrangements, thereby not missing out anything that can stop him from reaching London. Once his arrangements are done, he considers himself successful irrespetive of wether he actually reaches London. Now there may be factors outside his control (like delays and cancellations) These are out of control factors. A result oriented person can still fail and if he does, he'll blame himself for it even though the reason was out of his control thereby depending heavily on factors outside his control for success. This he may use as an excuse in case he fails.

[Uplift]

I like the flexibility of both approaches. Sometimes I like to have the end result crystal clear, and I keep focus on that, trusting that my Spiritual and subconscious abilities will take care of arranging the best process to achieve it. Sometimes I feel better just staying open and unlimited, and trust that by just focusing on and enjoying the moment, the right things will present themselves, eventually leading to a favourable, amasing outcome. Suprises can be fun. For instance, you might decide you want a particular design of house in a particular area. So you visualise it, the finished result, focus sharply and so on, find and attract the right block, architect, builder, deal smoothly with the relevant parties involved, and whatever issues and details arise, until there is the house. On the other hand, you might just feel like going surfing, come out the water, feel like wandering around the beach, and stumble into someone who is trying to get rid of some land. So you grab it, even though it's just popped up out of the blue, because it looks good, at a good price. Later something might happen...rezoning, some development in the area, someone else might really want it, and suddenly that land is starting to reveal a purpose. And things just roll along until it all unfolds.

But both approaches require total, certain self worth, value, respect and self assuredness, which in itself is a specific goal. So, I guess I'll have to correct myself. Without that as a specific belief and goal, none of it would be possible. The goal is most important to me. It colours the process.

[John Hill]

Great question.

I think the process is equally as important as achieving the goal since within the process or journey to achieve the goal, an important lesson is always learnt. You can then use this lesson for the rest of your life.

The goal is that well deserved reward you earn for sticking to the process no matter how difficult the journey was to reach the goal.

John

[Sunnybayes]

Originally Posted by Shamou

That sounds really, really good... except I just don't know what the hell you are talking about...

Could someone 'splain it to me...???

.

lol. Sorry. either I write something way too short or way too long.

But my question remains, is the process of more important than the goal?

So we got these abstract words that people are throwing around and that we each might have a different definition for them. So we should define these words.

Process:
Making your body move and your mind think for some reason.

Goal:
An endstate that you have in mind. Like "I will have a million dollars in my bank account"

Reason:
Purpose. You saw some need in your environment, like you see poverty in Africa so then you set your goal of "I am going to remove poverty from africa". So that becomes the "reason" that you go through the process to go and fly there.

Or say you feel the need to be rich because "I'm feeling poor and unimportant. I am setting the goal to become a millionaire" That end state becomes your reason for moving.

More important:
In terms of cause and effect, something that is more important is a cause that causes more effects. Like the CEO of a company is more important than a janitor.

So his question "is the process of more important than the goal?"
becomes "Does my process have more effects then having my endstate?"

The reason that you have a particular process is because you are moving toward an end state.

Having your goal in mind causes you to have a process.

Having a goal in mind causes you to move.

Always having your goal in mind causes your process.

So I guess that you could say that the end goal is more important (has more causes) than the process, because there is more than one way to "skin a cat". There is more than one way to achieve a goal. Your particular goal (endstate) causes the process.

And then when I said

If there is an end goal, and you don't specifically make that goal, it wouldn't have been waste. You'd have learned tonnes of knowlege that could apply to other areas.

Here is what I meant. Say I have an end goal of going to France. But then I'm in the middle of the flight on my way to Europe and then all of the sudden I decide that I want to go to the UK instead.

My spending all that time planning and striving to go to France was not a waste because all the knowlege that I had to learn to go there was able to spill over to reaching my goal of going to the UK.

Basically that knowlege from one area spills over to a new area.

Bill Gate's endstate has been and still is "to have a computer in every household". That caused him to go through the process of making Microsoft. That caused him to make billions. The billions were just a side effect. Billions was not his endstate. His endstate was "to have a computer in every household". He's not done yet. He's going to China now.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Sunnybayes

lol. Sorry. either I write something way too short or way too long.

One of the most interesting and meaningful post that I have read in a long time...

I don't feel nearly so stupid now... thank you...

.

[NotesMaeve]

I'm a person who values the process more.

I just broke up with my boyfriend a short time ago, because, well, he wasn't fitting the process and I couldn't revamp anymore. He had/has depression, no desire to get out of bed, would rather hang out with his parents than me, neglected cleaning, me, everything. Our relationship could have been saved had he just gone to the doctor. (Amazing how one small thing can alter the world.)

I decided his unintentionl cruelty because of a terrible disease wasn't going to screw with my growth. A few days later:

1) I am spending time with this amazing drummer from a fairly successful band who seems interested in me, takes me to dinner, pays attention to me.

2) My boss mentions my raise will be $1.50 to $2.00 an hour.

3) I learned this wonderful apartment I'm going to look at has NO cat deposit.

Sure, my goal of having a healthy, happy relationship with R? OVER! It's okay though, because otherwise my life is AWESOME. It's the process, not the goal.

[Sunnybayes]

Having a goal in mind is the process. Everything happens in the now. What matters is if the goal has concious attention or is subconcious running automatically.

You might have set a goal long ago that is running your life right now and that you are not aware of it.

[Alex2007]

Emotional attachment to the result can cause disapointment.

Focus on the process. If you can enjoy it, It can give you much more than the actual result.


Alex