Needed: Honest Opinion/Advice

[JoeRad]

WARNING: This is a whiny post that will likely annoy most people who read it. That said it is a somewhat interesting case study on how to seriously screw up a life, and may be of some use for some people who have a morbid sense of humor. In all seriousness though, I am asking for your thoughts, opinions, anything you would like to share on the subject. Anything would be appreciated. Without any further delay, below is the situation.

I am currently a college student in his early 20s living in the United States. The state (and county) in which I live is having a serous employment problem and as a result, the prospects of picking up a jo to replace the decent one I currently have are grim, as the job is ending in a few months. Even if I would be able to obtain work, it would take about two minimum wage jobs to replace the one I currently am working at....and its not nearly enough.

I do have a plan. I am going to be quitting college and I will be working in a job that will last a few years, is immensely demanding but guarantees income for at least two or three solid years. Meals, housing while on the job, paid for. College will be easier afterword and so things should be looking up right? Well, there is a hitch: I am not the only one who is facing problems.

I have a mentally challenged (to out it mildly) brother, a mother who should be classified as physically disabled cant convince her doctor to do so and a father who believes that God will save him from his financial problems....no matter that the last time he believed this we ended up living in a relatives basement for a few months before they kicked us out because they couldn’t stand the mental issues of my brother and the attitude of my father. (Treatments are all ineffective and we are unable to get a real diagnosis do to the quality of doctors here in the US when your poor.)

After we were kicked out was able to secure housing for my mother, & brother with a friend, I got into college (at the cost of massive loans debt), got a job (which was a freaking miracle) and then started desperately trying to get my brother back in school, treated and my mother healthier. My father went to another state to get work and sent back money. Os usual he los the job, got anther, lost that, got another then lost that one and has not gotten another one for almost a year now. My income was higher last year and I was able to help supplement the cost. However, once he lost the jo I started covering rent, food, gas and other expenses and as such the few saving I started were quickly drained.

The father then moves back to the state and goes through three jobs in six months finally saying that he is not going to work for anyone but himself. Of course he messes it up, and then starts living of what little savings he has and begins building up debt.

To complicate matters, the land lady we rent from has decided that I am "the son she never had" and has managed to make my life living hell by interfering in everything and frankly creeping my mother and brother out. Unable to take the abuse anymore they have since left for my father apartment and are attempting to get back on their feet. It is not working. I am now footing the bill for everything in this apartment, (and some of theirs as well) and I am unable to do so, and believe me this place is cheap compared to everywhere else around me.

Now, I have my plan, the and it likely will work for me, at the cost of being immensely hard...but I am OK with that....I need to succeed at something...the thing is it will do little for my mother and brother.

I will be blunt at this point; my father can rot in *&%# for all I care as his actions have knowingly precipitated these last few years of hell for me. My mother made bad choices early in life, then her health has managed to destroy her. She will not live more then ten additional years by my estimation. My brother while possessing a keen mind in some areas has never been able to function very long in society. To make matters worse his particular disorder has given him a split obsession with me; one minute he will be cursing me out and the next begging my forgiveness and trying to work it out...then being "normal" for several minutes before another episode. It has been this way since I was a kid and as a result I have grown somewhat used to it, but I am fallible and his cursing me out for seemingly random things leads me to places in my mind I do not wish to go...and leaves me rather ashamed at my weakness.

Either way,.......I am not presented with a choice;
I can take this job, and do it. It will help me, and I will earn.....decent money. However, a few months after I leave my mother and brother and father will be homeless. My father has pushed away all family and friends who can help him or has so used them to the point where they are incapable to help him, and thus my mother and brother anymore. So, I can at least while I am gone I can send nearly al the money back to them and those two can live. Someone must care for my brother as he cannot work, and my mothers health is always bad. We get barely any support from the state and are unable to get anymore...it if I do not basically stay with them for the rest of their and my lives, they will die.

If I do stay I will be perpetuating a situation that has been going on since I was four; that I am my brothers keeper, that my needs and wants always come second to the "family's", meaning my fathers. I will be forgoing any hope of a future that I want and I will essentially being a situation of permanently caring for two people, one of who verbally abuses me all day (my brother) and my mother who is too handicapped and depressed to do much of anything but house help......for the rest of my $%#@@! LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate that I am even in this position and have been advised by my there two brothers (who have left he family and basically severed all ties except with me) to leave and don’t look back. However doing so while helping me actually get a life will ultimately condemn them to death as without my mothers medicine, she will surely die and my brother will die because he rubs somebody the wrong way, or just live on the streets for the rest of his life.

What is most ironic is that my family doesn’t do "drugs" no one is beaten, we haven’t starved yet...but all this stuff is literally one or two weeks away and it has been this way for four straight years. I managed to get into college (I was doing well for awhile there too until the work and family situation caught up with me) but I am unable to handle the work and class schedule anymore. I don’t date and I have never owned a car because I have never had the money for it or insurance. I like to think I have handled it somewhat well, keeping a smile or at least my quirky sense of humor...but I know I am massively depressed and I fear for my life every other week. I try so hard to work things out, to come up with clever ways to pull this stuff off, but I almost feel like everything is in vain now.

I have a way out, I can, if I am really good and are willing to sacrifice a lot of my ideals I can get out and build a life......but at the cost of at least my mothers and brothers lives...death is actually possible if I leave them and don’t send nearly every penny to them.

How can I choose between my elf and them? That is my question...how can I condemn at least one person and my more to certain death so I can live??!!??

I apologize if this seems overly melodramatic. I swear to all of you every word is the truth and that even with all I have written the situation is even more complicated. Believe me when I say I know most of the "obvious" advice that people give out...I have heard it all and I spend nearly all my free time trying desperately to find solutions.

I thank you all in advance and apologize for this intrusion into these otherwise interesting forums.



Sincerely,
Needing Another Opinion

[silicon toad2000]

wow, stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Can you not take your mother and brother with you to this new job?
Does your brother have an autism spectrum disorder?
Can you harness those areas your brothers mind is keen at?

seems kinda clear that staying where you are is no good.
How much money could you send your mum and brother working in this good job?
Have you thought about applying to be legal guardian for your brother?

[Scin]

My initial thought was to take your other brothers' advice. Let me put it this way, so you can think about it more broadly:

Assume happiness and healthiness are quantifiable. What path makes YOU the happiest and healthiest you could be? Please note the emotional cost of "condemning them to death" in your calculations.

Also, are THEY really happy as they are now? Even if they did die, which is unlikely, at least they would die free and not dragging down a loved one in the process. I'm sure your mother loves you dearly and wouldn't want you to sacrifice your life for hers. Your brother...I can't say. I'd need more information. Your father unfortunately sounds like a lost cause.

[ZHereford]

Hi JoeRad,

This is a difficult decision either way.

In some ways by being someone who bails your family out all the time, you are enabling them and making them dependent on you. It's time your dad or even your mother and brother woke up to some sort of reality and responsibility. You've done everything you could so far and nothing much has changed - all of them are still not willing or able to do what is necessary. If they are indeed incapable, are there not institutions for such people? Perhaps it's time they faced what they haven't wanted to up to this point.

JoeRad, you owe it to yourself to do what's right for you now. Being on a sinking ship will help no one. At least this way you all have a chance. You can't take care of anyone until you take care of yourself first. Go for it!

[John Wesley]

You certainly have it very hard. It seems like the rest of your family is living off you like a parasite. They probably did the same to your other brothers and that's why they left.

Maybe part of the reason is that you allow them to do so. If you left them to solve their own problems, you might be surprised how well they do. Once they don't have you to leech off, they'll have no choice but to get it together.

On the other hand maybe not. Maybe they'll be destroyed as you think. I really can't tell you what to do one way or the other, but it's clear that something needs to change. If I was you I'd take the job, see how it goes, and then maybe if things get really bad you can come back and help them or send money as someone else suggested.

Good luck.

[Brutha]

If I do stay I will be perpetuating a situation that has been going on since I was four; that I am my brothers keeper, that my needs and wants always come second to the "family's", meaning my fathers.

If you decide to stay don't put up with that behavior from your father. Tell him either he stops it or you leave.

[Steve Pavlina]

What a wonderful position to be in. I mean that with all seriousness because it's these kinds of incredibly tough situations that ultimately shape us into something extraordinary. You're very lucky to face such a situation in your 20s, although it may not seem so now.

I can't tell you the answer, but I can point out the real question you're asking, which may make it easier to decide what to do. Your real question is, "Who am I?" Consider each of your options, and for each one of them ask yourself, "Is this me?" Which of the possible paths before you best reflects the real you?

That's all you really need to decide. Which path is me? Many times the answer becomes clear when we look at it that way, but we resist and resist because we don't yet accept who we are. The external situation just is -- the struggle and suffering exist only in our minds.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by JoeRad

but at the cost of at least my mothers and brothers lives...death is actually possible if I leave them and don’t send nearly every penny to them.

There are a myriad of social services for situations just like these. See if there is a network of care branch in your city that may list them.

There's everything from case management to crisis intervention to emergency food and shelter, with dozens and dozens of providers in every city.

You aren't your family, and one of the primary purposes of our society is to help those who cannot help themselves. It doesn't all fall on your shoulders.

I also agree with Steve, you'll be amazed how much these early hardships can shape your perspectives for the best in the long term. My teenage years were no picnic but they taught me a lot more than other people seem to have learned.

[JoeRad]

I wanted to thank everyone who gave me responses after I ran this "open letter" in the forum. The advice and opinion was insightful, and gave me food for thought.

If you are interested, I will add an update to my situation, and another request for advice from "the interwebs".

Shortly after my first post, I continued with my strategy of heading for the job I had a shot at. The trouble was, this job had a very high rate of injury, and my heart was not exactly in it...I was going for it out of desperation, and seeing no other way out. Help for me came from a very unlikely source; on of my older brothers and a friend of his. They were able to supply me with housing at my brothers, limited financing as well as connections for jobs and many more things than I can count. Their generosity is something that I can never repay, and it has been an enormous success. Within less then four months of my being with them, I was GAINFULLY employed at, quite possibly, one of the best companies one can work at...(in terms of its management respect and assistant to the employees, the atmosphere...its a joy), bought a car and was reenrolled at a new college for some evening classes. I am now working on my savings and things are truly looking up...I love the work that I do, and I am being mentored by the head of the department....every week is a new challenge and I have to say, I am surprising myself. The one wrinkle in all of this: I had to leave all of my other family behind, as I was the only helped (I was seen as salvageable).

Against this backdrop of roses, I had to slowly watch them as they drove each-over slowly mad with frustration, and watch their finances slip away. they received charity form some friends, and racked up enormous debt, but I could see the end of it all coming down the pike for some time....just watching it all happen in slow motion....it was very hard for me.

I was told that I needed to focus on myself, that I had to let them go, as they were literal failures at life (something I am not above agreeing with) and that I needed to solidify my position in life before I could help anyone else. For a time, I agreed, as I had little choice....I couldn't yet survive on my own. Then the day came that I had been working there for months, I received a pay grade increase and the timer on my families "stability" was just about run out. So I took action.

All the advice and wisdom I gained from my older brother and friend was usually correct...but we began to run into differences when they started pushing me to prepare for the "next step"....buying a house. This is were we differed.

I, not entirely out of fear, was not all that enthusiastic about the prospect of buying a house in our current economic situation in the USA, and the state in which I live is literally at the bottom level of the US......in almost every way economically. Their plan had me staying with them for about another 20 months....saving up an enormous amount of money, and then using it as a down payment. Sounds good at face value, but the sum they wanted me to save was very high, so much so that it would cut into my college a bit, and it prevented me from taking any action to help my other family members. We reached an empass when they declared that I would not intervene, and if I did, I would be out.

I intervened without their knowledge.....call me a jack*** but I was compelled to help my family...I had the funds, I had the ability, I had the feeling that I needed to give them ONE more chance....so I got an apartment not far from my job (at a bargain rate I might add), a shorter commute then I had at my brothers, and I have now moved them into apartment. I have just today informed my brother and my friend....they are not taking it well.
...they see all my efforts as a step back from the glorious future they say for me...owning and hoe and building equity...free from any of the negative influences of my family.

I have however, tried to be smart. I have set a deadline of roughly one year for my father to get his *** back in gear....failure to do so....well....I have hardened a bit in the last year, and I am not above taking additional action to save myself from him....I am working to help my brother get some basic work for himself, maybe even GED....my mother is working at regaining some health....she is thinking she may be able to obtain some employment....things are starting to show a slim ray of hope for them. I will be moving in with them soon.


Steve left an interesting point of view....

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

What a wonderful position to be in. I mean that with all seriousness because it's these kinds of incredibly tough situations that ultimately shape us into something extraordinary. You're very lucky to face such a situation in your 20s, although it may not seem so now.

I can't tell you the answer, but I can point out the real question you're asking, which may make it easier to decide what to do. Your real question is, "Who am I?" Consider each of your options, and for each one of them ask yourself, "Is this me?" Which of the possible paths before you best reflects the real you?

That's all you really need to decide. Which path is me? Many times the answer becomes clear when we look at it that way, but we resist and resist because we don't yet accept who we are. The external situation just is -- the struggle and suffering exist only in our minds.

I have come to recognize that within me, I a;ways think of other first...making me wonder if I have the "toughness" to stand my ground and look after myself when it may hurt someone else....is that a conflict that is only in myself, that if I trust "the universe" things will work out in the end for me? I am by no means religious, but the way things came into shape...its shocking....I focused totally on myself for awhile, and things worked so well....now that I am focusing outward, I am encountering resistance and indignation from the benefactors who I love deeply. Kind of like that phrase, "No good deed goes unpunished". The trouble with me is, I always want to do good deeds, I have always since I was young, wanted to...make things slightly better than what they are now....I worry that this makes me a target for abuse....

Some of the questions are, can I justifiably "force" them onto the streets if I am not satisfied with there progress...(or lack there of) in the future? Do I have the right to do so...how much sacrifice (lack of better term) on my part is to much....how much should I care about myself....

I already have an idea of the answer to these questions (i did not take this action lightly, or with a half baked plan...) but I do need other opinions on the matter...so please, if you are interested, I would greatly appreciate as much feedback as possible.


OK.......this is rambling stream of consciousness, and if you have read it, I both applaud you patience, thank you for it and beg your forgiveness all at the same time

Any opinion is welcome. And of course, I will be happy to follow up questions.

Best regards,
Looking for answers

[Kaspian]

If you want me to answer openly an honestly, I will tell you that you are not helping them.

One of my brothers had to learn financial responsibility the hard way. When he first left home and shared an apartment with roommates, he'd get money from his roommates for paying bills, spend it and his paychecks on tools and toys, and then be short on cash when rent or bills came due. He'd borrow a few hundred from Dad or one of my other brothers to get the bills and rent paid, and repeat the cycle. Sometimes he'd sell one of his new toys to the other brother to get money for rent, then buy it back at the next paycheck. Eventually, Dad stopped loaning him money, telling him he needed to figure it out on his own, and my other brother refused to sell stuff back to him. Once his safety net and back-up plan were removed, he learned to take care of bills first.

People on this forum are exceptions—most people don't change or learn how to live more effectively until they feel they have no other choice. When the pain of their current situation becomes greater than their fear of change (or laziness, limiting beliefs, etc), then they become willing to do something different. Right now, you and your apartment are their other choice, and the pain of their current situation is not likely to be strong enough to motivate change.

The best thing you can do to help them is to continue with your own success: make money, save money, learn, grow thrive, enjoy yourself. You show them what's possible and a path for accomplishing it.