Do you Believe in the American Dream… ???

[Shamou]

Do you believe in the American Dream… ???

Here is a definition of that dream…

"In general, the American dream can be defined as being the opportunity and freedom for all citizens to achieve their goals and become rich and famous if only they work hard enough."

However, if that does not meet with your definition, feel free to tell us what it is…

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[Vincentboucher]

No , we are the results of the past, then you are not free to make your descisions....I know you will not accept it, and this is why you are continually blaming the poor , the criminal , ect ect, you think they can do the same choice as you, but they can't . This is why education is the most important thing to invest in. A criminal have a criminal mind, this is the only way he is able to think. Wen talking about others , you have believe they are not responsable of their actions, then you have to teach them, direct them. When talking about you, you have to take the responsability of your actions, the way you think. I know this is the opposite, but It doesn't matters, you have to do what is going to give you the best results, forget the rest.

[Dusty]

I believe people play in whatever illusion they choose to.

Anything labeled as American, Latino, African American, Chinese etc. just gives rise to the big illusion in this world - the illusion that we are all separate.

I KNOW that the comments about goals and working hard are very limiting and egotistical energies - they don't vibe high at all.

I don't know if that answers your question.

[Uplift]

Even though I get the well meaning behind this idea, I wonder what the Indigenous Hawaiins and Indigenous Americans and so on, think of 'The American Dream'. Any dream is good (its manifestation and world experience is better) as long as it creates happiness, and whilst doing so considers, and doesn't snuff out the dreams of others.
For instance, as we don't have enough room here in Australia, and as we all know that Australians tend to know what's best I might have a dream of turning Quebec, Canada into a Nuclear Waste Dump , and lease it to any interested countries, becoming rich and famous in the process. I'll even let the 'Quebecians' own shares (well maybe one... down the track a bit) in it, and work in it, and I'll build em' some housing compounds out of town a bit. In fact, I'll even put some ice hockey rinks up for em'. They can 'share in my magnificent dream, and be rich and famous too! I mean, what more could they want...what do they do over there thats so important anyway?

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Dusty

I believe people play in whatever illusion they choose to.

Anything labeled as American, Latino, African American, Chinese etc. just gives rise to the big illusion in this world - the illusion that we are all separate.

I KNOW that the comments about goals and working hard are very limiting and egotistical energies - they don't vibe high at all.

I don't know if that answers your question.

In one word... No...

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[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Do you believe in the American Dream… ???

Here is a definition of that dream…

"In general, the American dream can be defined as being the opportunity and freedom for all citizens to achieve their goals and become rich and famous if only they work hard enough."


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My answer is: Yes.

Although I take out the "famous" part of the above quote - we can't have all 300 million people be famous...or nobody would be famous :-D. Not to mention, I see no need to be famous anyway.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by seeker5

My answer is: Yes.

Although I take out the "famous" part of the above quote - we can't have all 300 million people be famous...or nobody would be famous :-D. Not to mention, I see no need to be famous anyway.

Best answer so far... Congratulation...

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[Shamou]

I believe in the American dream for the simple reason that it resonate the fact that people can better their condition if they really want too…

It teaches that some form of success is accessible to anyone who is willing to take responsibility for his/her life, work hard… and stay on purpose…

It also teaches that you are not your past or your present condition… will and determination can overcome almost any situation…

The American dream of one of vision, inspiration, hope… and, a reminder that, “You are the Captain of your Ship and the Master of your Fate…”

.

[Mark Lapierre]

"In general, the American dream can be defined as being the opportunity and freedom for all citizens to achieve their goals and become rich and famous if only they work hard enough."

It's logically unsound because for all citizens to achieve their goals, that must include those whose goals require other's goals to go unfulfilled.

However like Uplift I agree with the spirit of the quote, which I interpret as being the freedom and opportunity to follow one's desires without impinging on the equal rights of others to do the same.

This makes it identical to the search for and exercise of one's purpose.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

It's logically unsound because for all citizens to achieve their goals, that must include those whose goals require other's goals to go unfulfilled.

I must respectfully disagree with you... success is not a zero-sum game... where if someone wins... someone must lose...

Success breeds success... it creates value... it is the spark and the fuel of mankind's evolution...

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[Mark Lapierre]

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that the American dream fostered a scarcity mentality. Simply that logically it's not possible for everyone to achieve their goals if, for example, John's goal is to stop Paul from achieving his. In this hypothetical it's impossible for both John and Paul to achieve their goals.

I was vaguely pointing out that the way the statement was made doesn't exclude people with morally or ethically undesirable goals. It doesn't prevent people from pursuing the goal of harming someone else. It leads people to believe they should be free to pursue their own goals, whatever the cost. I.e., the message is unclear. Which I thought the rest of my post clarified by restating the quote and providing an alternate interpretation. Not so?

[Uplift]

Shamou, the basis of the American Dream, like the Australian Dream, is war. War, driven by a selfish, ignorant version of success, was declared on Indigenous Peoples, who totally rejected the 'dream', and its notion of success. Brute force alone resulted in their homes and lives being stolen from them, and brute force is the reason they have to live the 'dream' in the present. The 'dream' has (putting it politely) a shoddy foundation, and the cracks are growing and appearing everywhere. Imagine a foundation that recognises the homes and rights of Indigenous Peoples, and celibrates their right to different dreams and ideals. One that addresses the wrong doing, no matter how difficult it is. Obviously it is going to require the heroic traits of honesty, bravery, sharing, compassion and determination. That is my version of a success, and a shining light to admire and emulate. Not a foundation and 'dream' based on war, brutality and stolen property...what kind of message does that send to children, the future, especially when it is so brazenly, cunningly and cowardly glossed over.
Unfortunately, I can't give your last answer a very high assesment... it needs more effort and work!

[Freelancer]

I agree with the core part of the american dream but I hate that its linked to Americans. The core is pretty much a condensed version of the dreams most people have, to lable it American seems a bit hypocrit (right word? ).

[JohnPlace]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Do you believe in the American Dream… ???

Here is a definition of that dream…

"In general, the American dream can be defined as being the opportunity and freedom for all citizens to achieve their goals and become rich and famous if only they work hard enough."

However, if that does not meet with your definition, feel free to tell us what it is…

.

Shamou, I do believe in the American dream! We do live in a country where an enterprising worker is free to climb the ladder, if he's smart and dedicated. I have seen this with my own two eyes more than once!

Unfortunately, to achieve what most people consider to be the American Dream, people may find it helpful to escape a different sort of American Dream. Allow me to explain.

There is another type of American Dream. It is a dream-state that many Americans find themselves in, a state where they drift through life with safe warm houses and full tummies, partaking in an endless cycle of production and consumption. Purpose and meaning are distant memories to the dreamer. Life becomes about new bed-sheets, new cars, plasma televisions, more raises, bigger promotions, and climbing up the ladder at jobs that neither inspire nor fulfill.

This is a dream I finally decided to wake up from, so I can pursue the true American Dream on my own terms.

Thanks for starting this thread, Shamou. You do start so many interesting ones!

[Dusty]

Do I believe the dream is possible? Of course... so I guess I believe in it. It's very limiting to what humans can actually do, but I'll promote it since it requires courage.

[Vincentboucher]

Originally Posted by Shamou

I believe in the American dream for the simple reason that it resonate the fact that people can better their condition if they really want too…
It teaches that some form of success is accessible to anyone who is willing to take responsibility for his/her life, work hard… and stay on purpose…

It also teaches that you are not your past or your present condition… will and determination can overcome almost any situation…

The American dream of one of vision, inspiration, hope… and, a reminder that, “You are the Captain of your Ship and the Master of your Fate…”

.

there must be something to initate the change.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

I agree with the core part of the american dream but I hate that its linked to Americans. The core is pretty much a condensed version of the dreams most people have, to lable it American seems a bit hypocrit (right word? ).

If you think it's hypocrite, then that's fantastic. That means the American dream is being exported to other countries in the world, so it's no longer purely thought of as an American desire.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that the American dream fostered a scarcity mentality. Simply that logically it's not possible for everyone to achieve their goals if, for example, John's goal is to stop Paul from achieving his. In this hypothetical it's impossible for both John and Paul to achieve their goals.

I was vaguely pointing out that the way the statement was made doesn't exclude people with morally or ethically undesirable goals. It doesn't prevent people from pursuing the goal of harming someone else. It leads people to believe they should be free to pursue their own goals, whatever the cost. I.e., the message is unclear. Which I thought the rest of my post clarified by restating the quote and providing an alternate interpretation. Not so?

Thank you for the clarification Mark... and, I agree with you that the definition is not clear or complete... however I believe that the definition was meant for people who are in PD and are positive... therefore for the sake of conciseness some inherent parts were simply left out...

What you said here is spot on...

I agree with the spirit of the quote, which I interpret as being the freedom and opportunity to follow one's desires without impinging on the equal rights of others to do the same.

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[Shamou]

Originally Posted by JohnPlace

There is another type of American Dream. It is a dream-state that many Americans find themselves in, a state where they drift through life with safe warm houses and full tummies, partaking in an endless cycle of production and consumption. Purpose and meaning are distant memories to the dreamer. Life becomes about new bed-sheets, new cars, plasma televisions, more raises, bigger promotions, and climbing up the ladder at jobs that neither inspire nor fulfill.

Very well stated John... and so very true...

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[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

I agree with the core part of the american dream but I hate that its linked to Americans. The core is pretty much a condensed version of the dreams most people have, to lable it American seems a bit hypocrit (right word? ).

I am not an American Freelancer... but fair being fair... we must admit that the American started the ball on this... so we should give them their due...

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[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by Shamou

I am not an American Freelancer... but fair being fair... we must admit that the American started the ball on this... so we should give them their due...

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haha perhaps, I've always had a bit of a dislike for Americans in general. I'm maybe going over to vegas in like a month or so and I wonder if I'll still have the same feeling afterwards.

What can I say about my dislike? ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ the tv ! lol

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

haha perhaps, I've always had a bit of a dislike for Americans in general. I'm maybe going over to vegas in like a month or so and I wonder if I'll still have the same feeling afterwards.

What can I say about my dislike? ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ the tv ! lol

I don't know if your feelings will be changed but Vegas is a great place to visit... been there three times and loved it... the place is unreal... people blow money as if it was going out of style... funky...

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[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by Shamou

I don't know if your feelings will be changed but Vegas is a great place to visit... been there three times and loved it... the place is unreal... people blow money as if it was going out of style... funky...

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haha nice, normally I don't particulary like big city's and stuff but I think I'll make a exception for vegas lol.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Freelancer

haha nice, normally I don't particulary like big city's and stuff but I think I'll make a exception for vegas lol.

Should you win a million dollars while out there... don't forget who your friends are...

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[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Should you win a million dollars while out there... don't forget who your friends are...

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haha that would be a strange way to win a million dollars since I don't gamble (nope not even in the greatest gambling town around lol)...