Containing your world.

[180]

So recently I've been getting back into affirmations versus external feedback. It had occurred to me that a perfect child, who up to the age of 9 who did everything "right" could be warped and transformed if they learned the wrong feedback. Such as a parent telling them it was the wrong way.

So let's take for example low self confidence. This usually occurs because as a child they learn by repetition they are failures. Parents say "oh you're not doing it right, let ME do it" and the kids lose competency. I'm sure we can all think of 10-20 things where our parents said "you can't do it". And hence in order to adapt the environment, our "incompetence" actually becomes like a survival mechanism.

So I've re-learning affirmations as a way to counter this unproductive programming learned as a kid.

The question is, do you think external feedback is stronger than internal feedback? If someone compliments you, do you think it has a much stronger affect than if you compliment yourself.

And WHY do you think this is? Because if you think about it.... most of the time the feedback we get from others could be wrong. And if we strengthen our internal validation, we could overcome a lot of the issues with confidence in this world.

[Broadsword]

Originally Posted by 180

So recently I've been getting back into affirmations versus external feedback. It had occurred to me that a perfect child, who up to the age of 9 who did everything "right" could be warped and transformed if they learned the wrong feedback. Such as a parent telling them it was the wrong way.

So let's take for example low self confidence. This usually occurs because as a child they learn by repetition they are failures. Parents say "oh you're not doing it right, let ME do it" and the kids lose competency. I'm sure we can all think of 10-20 things where our parents said "you can't do it". And hence in order to adapt the environment, our "incompetence" actually becomes like a survival mechanism.

So I've re-learning affirmations as a way to counter this unproductive programming learned as a kid.

The question is, do you think external feedback is stronger than internal feedback? If someone compliments you, do you think it has a much stronger affect than if you compliment yourself.

And WHY do you think this is? Because if you think about it.... most of the time the feedback we get from others could be wrong. And if we strengthen our internal validation, we could overcome a lot of the issues with confidence in this world.

I'm not as intelligible as you on this, but unless I'm reading this the wrong way I can relate to some of this from my younger years:

• My parents shielded me from a lot and fought a lot of battles for me
• They also did almost everything for me, and I never wanted for anything
• I was bullied kind of bad at School
• Also by women....
• Not a negative thing completely - but my Dad seemed to set pretty high standards for me, he was always pushing and I dont think I ever hit those standards
• My teachers at School told me I wasn't good enough to get into University

I won't expand on any of the above, but you can maybe deduce why the above points from say age 12-mid twenties might then change the way I think or look at things in my adult years.

In terms of criticism, I find external feed back stronger - I've developed a slightly thicker skin in recent years but I can/have taken this to heart, as opposed to when I see in my head this isn't good enough - when this happens I tend to mope around and beat myself up a bit, then snap out of it and pull myself together and strive harder to achieve whatever it is. I don't experience this determination if its external.

But in terms of compliments, I seem to brush external ones off. If I get praise for a job well done, get told I look good or something etc it usually feels prety good briefly for a 10 mins or so but I don't really attach too much to it and usually brush it off, I think because I don't want to appear cocky or whatever. But If I can see myself I'm doing something well or give myself a confidence boost with my own voice that seems to have a much stronger effect - i quietly keep it to myself and definitly take more note of it.

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by 180

The question is, do you think external feedback is stronger than internal feedback? If someone compliments you, do you think it has a much stronger affect than if you compliment yourself.

And WHY do you think this is? Because if you think about it.... most of the time the feedback we get from others could be wrong. And if we strengthen our internal validation, we could overcome a lot of the issues with confidence in this world.

Personally, I think that internal feedback is a simulation of external feedback. If it's being done in order to be self-sufficient, it is actually self-defeating. This is because, while the judgment you are making of yourself is internally derived, the rules by which you are judged are externally defined, so even in your own mind you are playing by the rules set by those outside yourself. This is the worst kind of dependence, because it has the illusion of independence without the fact of it. By participating in internal validation, you're actually reinforcing the structures by which your self-worth is controlled by external factors.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by The Cloud

Personally, I think that internal feedback is a simulation of external feedback ... This is because, while the judgment you are making of yourself is internally derived, the rules by which you are judged are externally defined, so even in your own mind you are playing by the rules set by those outside yourself.

I think that it COULD be so, but it isn't NECESSARILY so.

People can, and do, choose their own rules. In fact, even rules in the external reality aren't all consistent - different cultures, subcultures, communities, societies, groups etc have different rules & norms ....

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I think that it COULD be so, but it isn't NECESSARILY so.

People can, and do, choose their own rules. In fact, even rules in the external reality aren't all consistent - different cultures, subcultures, communities, societies, groups etc have different rules & norms ....

If you use methods learned externally, it's likely that you'll adopt the rules of those whose methods you're aping. Humans aren't born with a language, they learn it. They aren't born talking to themselves inside their own heads, they learn it. It's possible that there are those that turn that method to their advantage, but I suspect that much more often it merely creates a vulnerability to manipulation.

To put it bluntly, the voices in our heads are not our friends, even if they're saying good things about us. They're a form of compulsion or control, and even if they end up working to our advantage, they aren't working for our advantage. They're working because that is how we learned to work from the people around us that made language necessary.

The fact that we talk to ourselves even when it's not necessary is evidence of that. It's not a method we developed for our own good, it's a method we developed for the good of those around us. Trying to use a method developed for the good of those around us to achieve freedom from those very same people is asinine.

Edit: It's not always the case that self-talk is a form of compulsion, since language is a powerful tool. It's simply so ever-present that it's unlikely that most people are able to differentiate between when it's necessary and unnecessary, and most of the time it's probably unnecessary.

[Bongza]

I have discovered that inner voice is the most powerful tool that can make you or break you, if you inner voice is always negative and someone tells you that you can't do something, you will agree or believe that person.

Another factor is check the way you look at yourself, if you see yourself as a failure or a looser, you should know that other people will look at you the same way because you gave them the authority.

External feedback won't matter that much because you can evaluate it to check where is building or destroying you, it's like when you it grapes, you select the one that you look good to you leave the others.

Make or build your inner voice to be positive in all circumstances no matter what comes your way and believe in your own abilities but seek God's favour first.

[Clint Cora]

External feedback is important as it's the basis of learning. Otherwise, why bother with coaches and mentors?

However, not all external feedback is equal. For me, feedback from somebody I respect as an authority on the relevant topic is more important than from just some 'Joe' who really knows no more than I would know on a subject. So feedback from a mentor or somebody who has already been on the path I want to go on is important.

Also, if I keep hearing the same or similar feedback from many others, it then becomes more important then a single event or 'outlyer' feedback. For example, if many people are saying the same thing about one of my live presentations, I'm going to take it more seriously. But if only one person says something and especially if it happens to be totally different from the rest of the feedback I get, then I won't put as much value into it.

In any case, I usually always thank people for external feedback no matter how much I value their feedback or not. There's no reason to invalidate somebody's feedback in the open even if they are full of crap!

[Brutha]

I'm sure we can all think of 10-20 things where our parents said "you can't do it".

Actually I don't.
Then I don't have much problem with negative self talk.

To put it bluntly, the voices in our heads are not our friends, even if they're saying good things about us. They're a form of compulsion or control, and even if they end up working to our advantage, they aren't working for our advantage.

The voices inside yourself are yourself.

If I stress myself and the voice inside myself tells me: "Everything will happen perfectly in it's own good time", I don't think that has anything to do with compulsion.

And WHY do you think this is? Because if you think about it.... most of the time the feedback we get from others could be wrong. And if we strengthen our internal validation, we could overcome a lot of the issues with confidence in this world.

You are fairly well read in evolutionary psychology aren't you?
Humans are social creatures. We care about what our peers think of us.

So I've re-learning affirmations as a way to counter this unproductive programming learned as a kid.

I don't think that you get very far with pure affirmations.
I think NLP/hypnosis works much better to handle negative programs and install positive ones.

Especially if you don't believe in affirmation that you tell yourself it won't help you.

[chadcharlie]

Originally Posted by 180

The question is, do you think external feedback is stronger than internal feedback? If someone compliments you, do you think it has a much stronger affect than if you compliment yourself.

And WHY do you think this is? Because if you think about it.... most of the time the feedback we get from others could be wrong. And if we strengthen our internal validation, we could overcome a lot of the issues with confidence in this world.

Depending on a person's level of consciousness, I think the external feedback is much stronger with regard to shaping behavior. Especially at more ego-centered perspectives. It is absolutely random, thus a more surprising, and stronger shaping trigger

HOWEVER, as that person grows, the small personal victories that he sets himself up for and internally rewards himself for will begin to carry more strength and become the most important, ultimately with that person becoming satisfied with himself just to be satisfied.

Back to your laymen example though, telling your neighbor that her hair looks fantastic that night will ring astoundingly louder, and have a more lasting behavioral modification effect than her looking in the mirror herself and telling her that her hair looks great that night.

R/
Chad.

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by Brutha

The voices inside yourself are yourself.

If I stress myself and the voice inside myself tells me: "Everything will happen perfectly in it's own good time", I don't think that has anything to do with compulsion.

Yes it does, because if you were stressed out then you were thinking contrary thoughts, and if you were thinking otherwise then the voice in your head was probably saying otherwise. When you do that, it becomes an argument between the voice saying things are alright and the voice saying they aren't. You wouldn't need to make an argument if there was no opposing side.

And you're right that the voices inside are yourself. So if you argue with yourself, then you are both sides of the argument, which means that you are necessarily creating a negative argument as a part of yourself. Once side might be stronger than the other, but both sides will continue to exist as long as one does. It's unavoidable as long as you are using positive voices as a response to stress, so reliance on internal validation ensures that there will be continuing need for such validation. It would be better not to need validation in the first place.