The 80/20 Rule

[Fred Tracy]

Hey forum,

Apparently, I'm the last person on earth to hear of the "Pareto Principle", or the 80/20 rule.

If you haven't heard of it either, it basically means that 80% of your results will come from 20% of your work.

Hearing this got me thinking, and as it turns out I've been doing things all wrong.

A little story:

I've been focusing on traffic building for my website lately. Even though I've kept detailed reports of what sources are giving me the best traffic, I haven't actually changed the amount of time I spend doing each traffic generating activity,

For example, even though blog commenting only resulted in 10% of my traffic, I was spending the most time (several hours) doing that. If I would've spent that time doing something more productive, like guest posting, I would have had much more traffic.

To make a long story short, I've immediately started acting in accord with this rule, and the results are already obvious.

This just goes to show how simple principles applied to our work and life can generate much more results.

When did you first hear of the 80/20 rule? How have you applied it to your life?

[Agota]

Fred, seriously, how did you manage to be involved in personal development via reading books, blogs, participating in a forum and running your own blog and only hear about 80/20 rules now?

I'm seriously curious, because it seems to be everywhere

Anyway, as with everything, knowing it and applying it are two different things. I'll be applying it on my blog, because it's clear that guest posts are the single most effective traffic generation strategy for me, so once I relaunch my blog, I can simply lock myself in a room and write guest posts all day long

I'm also trying to apply it to my acrobatics. I used to spend loads of time trying to learn the tricks by doing them, which was useless because of the lack of conditioning and basic acrobatic skills. I decided to focus on conditioning and basic skills now and forget the more difficult tricks for a while so I could actually learn those difficult tricks faster.

I'm trying to figure out how to apply it with my freelance writing. Haven't figured it out yet.

[Clint Cora]

I first learned about the 20/80 rule when I started in pharma sales many years ago. I was told that only 20% of my top customers would be responsible for 80% of my sales. So I should really focus on these top 20% and not waste too much of my time with the others. The figures turned out to be so true.

I've since learned that my top 20% efforts first thing in the day will eventually result in 80% of my productivity. So when I'm in my 20% zone, I don't mess around!

Now I wonder how this 20/80 rule can be applied in the world of dating - any thoughts?

[TimoK]

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

I first learned about the 20/80 rule when I started in pharma sales many years ago. I was told that only 20% of my top customers would be responsible for 80% of my sales. So I should really focus on these top 20% and not waste too much of my time with the others. The figures turned out to be so true.

I've since learned that my top 20% efforts first thing in the day will eventually result in 80% of my productivity. So when I'm in my 20% zone, I don't mess around!

Now I wonder how this 20/80 rule can be applied in the world of dating - any thoughts?

I try to work on my 20% tasks the first thing too:

http://www.timokiander.com/prioritizing-tasks/

It is a really good feeling to realize that you have been able to tackle at least some of your important tasks before going to work.

Timo

[TimoK]

The first time I heard about this was in 2008.

Now I try to apply the rule everywhere possible.

Sometimes it takes a bit of testing to see what works and what not. I guess that is the only way to figure out the 20% to focus on.

Timo

[Fred Tracy]

Originally Posted by Agota

Fred, seriously, how did you manage to be involved in personal development via reading books, blogs, participating in a forum and running your own blog and only hear about 80/20 rules now?

I'm seriously curious, because it seems to be everywhere

Anyway, as with everything, knowing it and applying it are two different things. I'll be applying it on my blog, because it's clear that guest posts are the single most effective traffic generation strategy for me, so once I relaunch my blog, I can simply lock myself in a room and write guest posts all day long

I'm also trying to apply it to my acrobatics. I used to spend loads of time trying to learn the tricks by doing them, which was useless because of the lack of conditioning and basic acrobatic skills. I decided to focus on conditioning and basic skills now and forget the more difficult tricks for a while so I could actually learn those difficult tricks faster.

I'm trying to figure out how to apply it with my freelance writing. Haven't figured it out yet.

Lol. Okay, honestly I've heard of it/seen it before, but I haven't seen it in a book I've read until now. That's important, because I'm usually not open to analyzing new data or coming up with new ways to do things at just any time. I like to find something new and coast with it for a while.

So this time I found it while I was in learning mode.

For sure, guest posts are AMAZING.

Hmm, I've been meaning to do some freelance writing lately. I'll PM you about that. I'd guess that any 80/20 principle applied would have more to do with actually finding the right work than the specific writing process.

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

I first learned about the 20/80 rule when I started in pharma sales many years ago. I was told that only 20% of my top customers would be responsible for 80% of my sales. So I should really focus on these top 20% and not waste too much of my time with the others. The figures turned out to be so true.

I've since learned that my top 20% efforts first thing in the day will eventually result in 80% of my productivity. So when I'm in my 20% zone, I don't mess around!

Now I wonder how this 20/80 rule can be applied in the world of dating - any thoughts?

Hahaha, I don't know if that dating question was for me specifically or just off the top of your head, but I like it.

I think the social interactions should be kept completely present and outside the realm of any weird, creepy productivity technique, BUT as for where you meet them, where you decide to take them, and all the other logistical stuff, I say optimize out the wazoo!

Originally Posted by TimoK

The first time I heard about this was in 2008.

Now I try to apply the rule everywhere possible.

Sometimes it takes a bit of testing to see what works and what not. I guess that is the only way to figure out the 20% to focus on.

Timo

For sure. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what 20% I want to focus on most. It's hard to tell, but I'm guessing constant analysis of key data is, well, the key.

---

By the way, guys, I've been reading the 4-hour Workweek lately and I came across the opposite of the 80/20 rule. Or the corollary. Or the inverse. Something.

As Tim Ferris says, the 80/20 basically goes that we should limit tasks to the important to get stuff done faster.

The opposite, called Parkinson's law, says that we should limit the time allotted for each task to make it more important.

This comes from the idea that we will take an hour to do something if given that much time, or 20 hours to do the same thing if given that much time, because of procrastination and such.

So if we determine that we absolutely have to finish something within a relatively small period of time, we'll end up getting it done faster and, because of the intense focus, making it of higher quality.

Totally weird.

[Clint Cora]

Originally Posted by TimoK

I try to work on my 20% tasks the first thing too:

Prioritizing tasks – Focus on your 20 percent tasks before going to office

It is a really good feeling to realize that you have been able to tackle at least some of your important tasks before going to work.

Timo

It is usually part of my work

[Clint Cora]

Originally Posted by Fred Tracy

Hahaha, I don't know if that dating question was for me specifically or just off the top of your head, but I like it.

I think the social interactions should be kept completely present and outside the realm of any weird, creepy productivity technique, BUT as for where you meet them, where you decide to take them, and all the other logistical stuff, I say optimize out the wazoo!

No, it was directed towards you - it was just something I just thought of.

[Fred Tracy]

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

No, it was directed towards you - it was just something I just thought of.

Haha yup.

I've been planning to go approach a bunch of women and fine tune my girly skills lately.

I can see myself creating Excel spreadsheets regarding success rates for various locations and fine-tuning.

God, it's good to be a nerd sometimes.

[AngelPsychic444]

Now I wonder how this 20/80 rule can be applied in the world of dating - any thoughts?

Well, I would imagine that you have to go back into your past, and figure out what worked for you with dating. What places did you go to where you met the most women and then use that as a place to start. Obviously everybody has a different past dating experience, unique to that person, so going back and trying to figure out the why's and how's of the women you met, which you were successful with, would work. Also, you'll notice that women will be attracted to certain aspects of you, and of course you need to emphasize those aspects. We all have that 20% when it comse to dating, we just need to become aware of it.

As far as places to meet women, where do you do best? Online? At bars? Taking college classes?...etc, that's always a good start. And of course you also want to stay away from any techniques that gave you zero results in the past (I almost forgot to add that), since you want to maximize your results.

I also had some insights into my own dating successes while writing this post, so you got me thinking now Clint!!...lol

P.S.
Thanks Fred for bring up this topic, it's very interesting!

[CoolBee]

You can also take it further:

if 20% of the effort gets 80% of the results, then
20% of the 20% (ie 4%) gets 80% of the 80% (ie 64%)
and 20% of that (ie just under 1%) gets you 80% of that (ie just over 50%)

So that basically boils down to 1% of the effort gets you 50% of the results.

I would be wary of overapplying it... if you are a small business and focus your efforts on the customer who gives you the most results, what happens if that customer flakes out on you (eg a big company was buying all your stuff and changes to another supplier) and you haven't paid any attention to your 'tail' customers? Without checking out numbers, this is the place at which a lot of small business take a dive.

[Fred Tracy]

Originally Posted by AngelPsychic444

Well, I would imagine that you have to go back into your past, and figure out what worked for you with dating. What places did you go to where you met the most women and then use that as a place to start. Obviously everybody has a different past dating experience, unique to that person, so going back and trying to figure out the why's and how's of the women you met, which you were successful with, would work. Also, you'll notice that women will be attracted to certain aspects of you, and of course you need to emphasize those aspects. We all have that 20% when it comse to dating, we just need to become aware of it.

As far as places to meet women, where do you do best? Online? At bars? Taking college classes?...etc, that's always a good start. And of course you also want to stay away from any techniques that gave you zero results in the past (I almost forgot to add that), since you want to maximize your results.

I also had some insights into my own dating successes while writing this post, so you got me thinking now Clint!!...lol

P.S.
Thanks Fred for bring up this topic, it's very interesting!

This is super true. If you ever look into the world of pick-up you'll find a lot of people wearing ridiculous things and emphasizing features that wouldn't even normally be attractive.

For example, probably the most famous pick-up artist is Mystery, who is really tall and lanky. Most people would consider this an unattractive trait, but he emphasizes it with loose clothing that makes him look even taller, and even more lankier.

It works for him because it makes him stand out. The girl will, at the very least, notice and remember him. Then he can do his magic with his personality and techniques.

By the way, I thought your post said we should use the 80/20 principle to "figure out women" at first. I almost had a heart attack. This is impossible, didn't you know?

[Fred Tracy]

Originally Posted by CoolBee

You can also take it further:

if 20% of the effort gets 80% of the results, then
20% of the 20% (ie 4%) gets 80% of the 80% (ie 64%)
and 20% of that (ie just under 1%) gets you 80% of that (ie just over 50%)

So that basically boils down to 1% of the effort gets you 50% of the results.

I would be wary of overapplying it... if you are a small business and focus your efforts on the customer who gives you the most results, what happens if that customer flakes out on you (eg a big company was buying all your stuff and changes to another supplier) and you haven't paid any attention to your 'tail' customers? Without checking out numbers, this is the place at which a lot of small business take a dive.

Hah, interesting point. Like you said, that can easily spiral out of balance fast if not applied carefully.

Love your signature by the way.

[AngelPsychic444]

By the way, I thought your post said we should use the 80/20 principle to "figure out women" at first. I almost had a heart attack. This is impossible, didn't you know?

Yes, I agree with you 100% there Fred...lol.

When you said:

"...... it basically means that 80% of your results will come from 20% of your work."

I realized I use this, to some extent, when working on my psychic abilities, since so much "work" at times in this area, seem's to be useless and that small 20% can be so important. It's interesting how you can apply this rule to so many things, when you step back and take a look at it.

[Fred Tracy]

I'm curious, how do you apply it to your psychic-ness?

[AngelPsychic444]

Originally Posted by Fred Tracy

I'm curious, how do you apply it to your psychic-ness?

If I understand the principle correctly, it boils down to self-observation, as you become aware that what the 20% factor is. Most of the time you're doing all this work and getting little or no results, until you finally admit that 20% of your work is the only thing that brings you 80% of your results.

The key, for me anyway (I'm not sure if this applies to everyone) is watching yourself very carefully and noticing how you have psychic experiences (for example spontaneous clairvoyant images come to you). Once you nail this down, the way to go is focus all of your work there. The hard part is finding out which psychic area is your natural one, then your amount of work, so to speak, can be trimmed down.

I think I got that right according to the 80/20 rule, but I'm not 100% sure.

[OptimistPrime]

I was thinking about the Pareto principle this afternoon, and I realized that this is actually one reason why I only do things when I feel intuitively impelled to do so. Since learning how to hear/feel my inner guidance, I've consistently observed that when I follow it, I accomplish a lot even if I do very little. Whereas, when I take actions because I think that I should, but my heart really isn't in it, I tend to do a lot but accomplish very little.

So I've pretty much given up on doing things that don't resonate with me inside, because when I do that, it feels precisely like I'm doing 5 times as much work yet only accomplishing an extra 1/4 as much achievement.

[Fred Tracy]

That makes a lot of sense.

Time wasters are REALLY easy to get into, and are especially pervasive if you aren't really focused on what you're doing and your heart isn't in it.

[NoJobRob]

I think I've seen the 80/20 rule in my life. When I first started trading stocks online, as in my first year, I had a few really awesome trades that gave me 500% to 1000% returns. These were of course the minority of my trades, and if I hadn't pissed my money away on the other 80% of the trades, I'd be pretty damn wealthy today. LOL If I only knew then what I know now... Oh well. I'm on the right track now and will be at the top soon.

[Acting Like Godot]

Ok, folks. Here are the sad truths of the 80/20 principle. Based on my personal experience and investigations, this is how it works.

Very often, even though 20% of the work may yield 80% of the results, you'll still have to do 100% of the work.

A simple illustration - suppose you are a new guy in a sales job. If you have 10 clients, then according to the Pareto principle, 2 of those clients are going to give you 80% of your sales revenue. However, at the time when you first start chasing for new clients, you won't know which 2 clients are going to be the Two Big Clients. So you still have to put in all the work to get your 10 clients.

Here's another example. Email is a big part of the work environment, yes? In fact, a large part of work just involves to emails. Now, according to the Pareto principle, 20% of the emails you respond to will deliver 80% of the results that you get from responding to emails. However, you still have to read all your emails, to find the 20% of emails which are most important.

3rd illustration. In every job, there are the mundane & boring tasks which are nevertheless necessary. If you do them, the results that they produce are not what you would regard as your noteworthy achievements or "results". But if you don't do them, your neglect eventually leads to a collapse of the system. Examples of such tasks include things like backing up your data; renewing your insurance; properly filing your documents for future reference, and so on.

[Andrew Gubb]

Yeah, I saw how you had so many comments on your blog and thought, "either he has massive traffic or he has been getting lots of return comments from making loads of comments himself."

Blog comments aren't a great way of getting traffic, unless it's a high traffic blog and you get the first comment. (This is doable: just get an RSS feed which alerts you the moment a new post appears from the blogs you are following. I don't bother with this method though).

Blog comments are really about building relationships with other bloggers and other thinkers. I prefer to just do them when I feel like doing them (erring on the side of doing them if it's a case of whatever-might-as-well).

I haven't really gotten into guest posting myself, though I hear it is the best.

For me, so far, the Steve Pavlina forum has been an excellent way of getting myself known. So it's been where I've focused my efforts.

I should try guest posting more in earnest some time. I don't know if it's a comfort zone thing, if it's actually not the best way for me, or if I just need to learn how to do it well.

[Fred Tracy]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Ok, folks. Here are the sad truths of the 80/20 principle. Based on my personal experience and investigations, this is how it works.

Very often, even though 20% of the work may yield 80% of the results, you'll still have to do 100% of the work.

A simple illustration - suppose you are a new guy in a sales job. If you have 10 clients, then according to the Pareto principle, 2 of those clients are going to give you 80% of your sales revenue. However, at the time when you first start chasing for new clients, you won't know which 2 clients are going to be the Two Big Clients. So you still have to put in all the work to get your 10 clients.

Here's another example. Email is a big part of the work environment, yes? In fact, a large part of work just involves to emails. Now, according to the Pareto principle, 20% of the emails you respond to will deliver 80% of the results that you get from responding to emails. However, you still have to read all your emails, to find the 20% of emails which are most important.

3rd illustration. In every job, there are the mundane & boring tasks which are nevertheless necessary. If you do them, the results that they produce are not what you would regard as your noteworthy achievements or "results". But if you don't do them, your neglect eventually leads to a collapse of the system. Examples of such tasks include things like backing up your data; renewing your insurance; properly filing your documents for future reference, and so on.

Hmm, I see what you're saying. It just depends on what you apply it to.

For most of the things that I do, I can just eliminate that and focus on highly efficient work.

Like I mentioned in the OP, blog commenting wasn't an efficient way to get traffic. So I simply eliminated a lot of the time that I spent doing that, and now spend it on more fruitful pursuits.

I think that the more control you have over what you're doing, the more the 80/20 principle will do for you. If you are an entrepreneur and own your own business, you're golden. If you work for someone else, and have to keep up with a lot of mundane tasks, then you're in deep trouble productivity wise.

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Yeah, I saw how you had so many comments on your blog and thought, "either he has massive traffic or he has been getting lots of return comments from making loads of comments himself."

Blog comments aren't a great way of getting traffic, unless it's a high traffic blog and you get the first comment. (This is doable: just get an RSS feed which alerts you the moment a new post appears from the blogs you are following. I don't bother with this method though).

Blog comments are really about building relationships with other bloggers and other thinkers. I prefer to just do them when I feel like doing them (erring on the side of doing them if it's a case of whatever-might-as-well).

I haven't really gotten into guest posting myself, though I hear it is the best.

For me, so far, the Steve Pavlina forum has been an excellent way of getting myself known. So it's been where I've focused my efforts.

I should try guest posting more in earnest some time. I don't know if it's a comfort zone thing, if it's actually not the best way for me, or if I just need to learn how to do it well.

Dude, you've got to guest post. It's fantastic.

In fact, just today I had a post go up on dumblittleman. It's only 5:30pm here and I'm almost at a record high for daily traffic for the entire time my site has been active. The power of guest posting on a really popular site should not be overlooked.

Actually, I find guest posting to be quite relaxing and easy. It's a chance to break from my usual way of posting and write something in a little bit different style. For example, I had a guest article recently on pickthebrain, and it was about avoiding information overload.

Now, I'm definitely interested in avoiding that, but not that interested in writing about it on my website. But I know a lot of people in the pickthebrain audience would be interested, so went ahead and wrote it. It was a lot of fun.

I sometimes try to be first comment on a popular site, but it doesn't happen that often.

These forums are awesome for traffic growth though. Plus it's just plain fun to post here. I used to waste time here a lot, but now it is technically part of my traffic growth strategy.

Either way, I have fun, it's just counted as productive now.

Oh, and the coolest part is, even though I was getting a lot of comments just from people replying to mine, now that I'm focusing on things to grow traffic, my comments have actually remained relatively steady. It's just that now people are simply commenting because they want to. Oh, and I added CommentLuv. That helps, lol.

[Andrew Gubb]

That's so cool, bro. Any tips for finding people to guest post with?

I suspect that most of my blocks are internal -- and also that they're nearly finished with. I think I didn't want too much traffic because I was still unsure about the value of my site, but that's changing now as I start to feel more harmonised with it.

If you like we can do a guest post exchange later. Could be fun

[Fred Tracy]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

That's so cool, bro. Any tips for finding people to guest post with?

I suspect that most of my blocks are internal -- and also that they're nearly finished with. I think I didn't want too much traffic because I was still unsure about the value of my site, but that's changing now as I start to feel more harmonised with it.

If you like we can do a guest post exchange later. Could be fun

At the moment I don't allow guest posts or I definitely would. I'd still love to write one for you. Actually, I have my first guest post ever coming up on Wednesday, but it's a specific response to an article that I asked for a female perspective on, lol, so don't think I'm lying or anything!

As far as finding people to guest post with, there are basically two types:

The first is people that you want to build a relationship with, but that might not have a lot of traffic going through their site. You'll write these mainly to make an impact on them and hopefully a lifelong blogging friend, but not for traffic.

The second is for sites like pickthebrain.com, where as far as I know there isn't really any centralized person, but there's a ton of traffic going through there, so you'll likely get a lot of hits. Your more popular personal development sites with Alexa ratings of under ~75k fall into this category.

One of the first sites I ever guest posted for was pickthebrain. Erin is the editor there and is really cool as far as I can tell. Never had much of a problem getting an article on there either. I would start there.

[Andrew Gubb]

Huh, cool find. Is it the only big blog you've guest posted at??

[Fred Tracy]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Huh, cool find. Is it the only big blog you've guest posted at??

Sorry for the late reply, dude.

I just had one go up yesterday at marcandangel.com. They are harder to get on, but will probably give you a little more traffic.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Fred Tracy

Sorry for the late reply, dude.

I just had one go up yesterday at marcandangel.com. They are harder to get on, but will probably give you a little more traffic.

S'okay. That's helpful too.

So you've found 2 blogs that let you guest post so far? I'm interested because I'd like to know roughly how much effort I have to make to find a good guest posting lead.

[Fred Tracy]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

S'okay. That's helpful too.

So you've found 2 blogs that let you guest post so far? I'm interested because I'd like to know roughly how much effort I have to make to find a good guest posting lead.

Actually I've been on a bunch of them. It's really easy to find them. Just search for "personal development+ guest post" or whatever your keywords are. A bunch will come up.

Or actually, you can type in "top personal development blogs" or something similar and find a list, and then see if they offer guest posting opportunities. Look at a few of the posts and see if there written by different people. Then check the Alexa ranking of the blog and see if it's somewhere you want to post.

You can generate a list of 10 or 20 different sites in like thirty minutes, piece of cake.

[faraway]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Very often, even though 20% of the work may yield 80% of the results, you'll still have to do 100% of the work.

Yes, I agree. But there is the magic of prioritisation. Pareto helps to choose your top priorities, to do first things first, while you have more energy, more focus.

When I first read about the Pareto rule many years ago I did not believe it. I spent a long evening cheching it with my business data (customers and sales to them) in all configurations possible. I was even irritated: How can it work all the time?!

[chadcharlie]

Originally Posted by CoolBee

You can also take it further:

if 20% of the effort gets 80% of the results, then
20% of the 20% (ie 4%) gets 80% of the 80% (ie 64%)
and 20% of that (ie just under 1%) gets you 80% of that (ie just over 50%)

So that basically boils down to 1% of the effort gets you 50% of the results.

I would be wary of overapplying it... if you are a small business and focus your efforts on the customer who gives you the most results, what happens if that customer flakes out on you (eg a big company was buying all your stuff and changes to another supplier) and you haven't paid any attention to your 'tail' customers? Without checking out numbers, this is the place at which a lot of small business take a dive.

You're my new hero coolbee! That was splendid Math