Are you an Alpha male (female)…???

[dastrovia]

Originally Posted by madgeylou

shamou,

man's dominance over other people translates into a need for dominance over nature. for 2000 years our culture has been based on men dominating other men, and men dominating nature, rather than people working together and with nature.

one of my beliefs is that in learning how to deal with each other in a collaborative way, humans learn how to deal with the planet in a collaborative way. dominance is not required or rewarded in this new paradigm, but ingenuity is.

We have not used our brains to evolve enough since the cave man days. Sorry about the man part but I think it is part and parcel of your comments. Back then it was totally survival of the fittest and you have to admit man is stronger than women. We are gifted to have the most intelligence of any being on earth or at least that is what we are told. We are not utilizing that gift to all its benefit when we allow ourselves to accept the alpha trait as being the be all end all. That would appear to be accepting a concept we should not accept if we want to all get along and avoid wars etc.

[Uplift]

And so to answer your question Shamou, no, I am not an Alpha male, and have no desire to be one. I have a burning desire to be the most incredibly happiest, most fullfilled, most humane being I can be, and to do it in a way that fosters the same for all.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by madgeylou

one of my beliefs is that in learning how to deal with each other in a collaborative way, humans learn how to deal with the planet in a collaborative way. dominance is not required or rewarded in this new paradigm, but ingenuity is.

First and foremost… alphaism does nothing to reduce collaboration… in fact, the best leaders or alphas are those who can promote and foster collaboration… any successful alpha knows that nothing can be achieved without collaboration and that antagonism is always counterproductive…

Second… the protection of nature will not be achieved by trying to eliminate alphaism… but by getting the common person (for lack of a better term) to accept the sacrifices necessary to stop the pollution and the waste of natural resources…

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[dastrovia]

Originally Posted by Uplift

And so to answer your question Shamou, no, I am not an Alpha male, and have no desire to be one. I have a burning desire to be the most incredibly happiest, most fullfilled, most humane being I can be, and to do it in a way that fosters the same for all.

I could not state it any better Uplift.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Uplift

And so to answer your question Shamou, no, I am not an Alpha male, and have no desire to be one. I have a burning desire to be the most incredibly happiest, most fullfilled, most humane being I can be, and to do it in a way that fosters the same for all.

Have you given us your definition of alpha...???

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[Shamou]

Being an alpha is one of the most important asset toward achieving success… yet some people see the trait as being pejorative… the problem being… that they do not have a clear understanding of what it means to be an alpha…

An alpha is strong and assertive leader… period… it has nothing to do with being a bully, thug, macho, goon or gorilla…

Some of the best examples of alphaism are: Arnold Schwarzenegger, Anthony Robbins, Donald Trump, Jane Fonda… etc… not a bad group to emulate…

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[Uplift]

Shamou, this was your own quote in a previous thread, of the definition of the western concept and construct of alphaism:

'In social animals, the alpha male or alpha female is the individual in the community whom the others follow and defer to. Where one male and one female fulfill this role, they are referred to as the alpha pair.

Chimpanzees show deference to the alpha of the community by ritualised gestures such as bowing, allowing the alpha to walk first in a procession, or standing aside when the alpha challenges. Canines also show deference to the alpha pair in their pack, by allowing them to be the first to eat and, usually, the only pair to mate; wolves are a good example of this.

The status of the alpha is generally achieved by means of superior physical prowess, however, in certain highly social species such as the bonobo, a contender can use more indirect methods, such as political alliances, to oust the ruling alpha and take his/her place.

In humans, the alpha male often refers to a man who is powerful or high on the social ladder, similar to hegemonic masculinity. In Western cultures, the term is usually pejorative and describes a man who is overtly masculine to the point of rejecting any affront to their ascribed status.

You ask for my definition of alphism...even after I have repeatedly outlined in numerous posts that it is along the lines of the above. Either, you obviously haven't given any attenion to anything I have said, or perhaps you were serious with your following quote on this thread:

'Thank you so much for that clarification... now it is clear and I understand... (Sometimes I have problem with walking and chewing gum at the same time... )

By the way, have you seen the famous Monty Python Black Knight skit?

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Uplift

Shamou, this was your own quote in a previous thread, of the definition of the western concept and construct of alphaism:

You ask for my definition of alphism...even after I have repeatedly outlined in numerous posts that it is along the lines of the above. Either, you obviously haven't given any attenion to anything I have said, or perhaps you were serious with your following quote on this thread:

'Thank you so much for that clarification... now it is clear and I understand... (Sometimes I have problem with walking and chewing gum at the same time... )

By the way, have you seen the famous Monty Python Black Knight skit?

That definition of alpha (from here) is for the animal kingdom... ...I forgot I had even posted it...

Glad we finally connected...

And, sorry... I did not see the skit...

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[Uplift]

'Glad we finally connected'. Me too Shamou.

[Amadeus]

The authors of this book got the definition of alpha all wrong. They are headstrong, stir up things, loud, but they are not always the leaders and people who shake things up in a productive way.
For example, take a large plant where they make cars that have a couple of thousand employees. You can't tell me that there are not any beer drinking, loud, opinionated alpha males on the floor of that plant without a leadership role. A lot of of them are not in a leadership role or could never dream of being in a leadership role. They are lazy, tired, washed up, and maybe want to be the leader, but are not organized, focused, and politcal enough to be a leader.
Out of a population of 300 million, I bet you at least 100 million, or maybe a little less, are alpha males. Alpha males have been studied for decades and can actually be psychologically diagnosed.
According to this author, it seems they are only pointing out to a few thousand people, or maybe less, in our entire history. Nonsense.

[Amadeus]

Also Aerosmith were signed on by 2 attornies over 30 years ago. They still make royalties off of Steven Tyler's songs, even though they have moved on. But according to these authors they would be more the alpha males than Aerosmith. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥! I saw them on VH1 and they were boring, quite, "beta", males and rich as hell.
Shamou the Killer Whale stated that Arnold Schwarzenegger is an alpha male, which he is. However, if he stayed on the couch his whole life he would still be an alpha male, just not a very productive one. The people who really make the decisions are the ones who develop companies to hire these clowns to go on stage and perform. They are the trendsetters! A lot of them are betas, guaranteed.
Most politicians are alphas, but they are not the ones who are making the big decisions and making the big bucks. The lobbiest, big corporations, Federal Reserve are the ones who get these monkeys elected and tell them when to raise interest rates, go to the moon, or invade Iraq.....not the politicians. I bet a lot of them are also of logical, soft spoken, wouldn't recognize their face in public, beta males and females.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Amadeus
The authors of this book got the definition of alpha all wrong.

The book “The Alpha Male Syndrome” was written by Kate Ludeman and Eddie Erlandson and you can check here for their credentials…

Now could you indicate where you got your info from…???

Alpha males have been studied for decades and can actually be psychologically diagnosed.

A diagnostic is given in case of a malfunction or a disease… alphaism is a condition… therefore, It can be detected but not diagnosed…

According to this author, it seems they are only pointing out to a few thousand people, or maybe less, in our entire history. Nonsense.

This is the entire quote that I posted… where do you see that the authors are pointing to a few thousands…???

"Human history is the story of alphas, those indispensable powerhouse who take charge, conquer new worlds, and move heaven and earth to make things happen.

Whether heading a band of warrior, bringing a vital new product to market, guiding a team to glory, or steering a giant conglomerate, alphas are hardwired for achievement and eager to tackle challenges that others find intimidating.

Along the way they inspire awe and admiration – and sometimes fear and trembling. Wherever they are and whatever they do, they stand out from the crowd, usually leaving an indelible impression on those whose lives they touch."
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[Amadeus]

Shamou, I think I proved my point when you stated on page one that most people won't hit great success unless they are alpha. I just pointed out to you myriad of examples when the probability of betas making the decisions or making the money is just as high or not higher than alpha. The two attornies who signed on Aerosmith were betas in my opinion but just as if not more successful than Aerosmith.

You and the authors are characterizing alphas as those that prove results or achieve a certain level. I, and the majority of people in the psychological field, define alpha as a characteristic, with no particular cause and effect result.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

I, and the majority of people in the psychological field, define alpha as a characteristic, with no particular cause and effect result.

Could you cite some authorities to back up that statement...??? or, is it just your personal opinion...???
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[valis]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Being an alpha is one of the most important asset toward achieving success… yet some people see the trait as being pejorative… the problem being… that they do not have a clear understanding of what it means to be an alpha…

An alpha is strong and assertive leader… period… it has nothing to do with being a bully, thug, macho, goon or gorilla…

Some of the best examples of alphaism are: Arnold Schwarzenegger, Anthony Robbins, Donald Trump, Jane Fonda… etc… not a bad group to emulate…

.

I think, to state it a bit more clearly, that being an alpha can be both a boon and a bane. An alpha will always develop traits that bring to the forefront the ability to turn weaknesses into potent strengths, but inherent in that ability is the risk element; a good analogy is the risk/reward in golf. Is it worth it to try to carry that lake in front of the green for a chance at eagle, or should you lay up, put it stiff, and putt for birdie? On the one hand, you clear the lake, you are guaranteed bird at least, but if you don't clear the lake, you'll not walk off with par. So a bit of risk is involved as well, and that's frequently overlooked.

Sometimes alphas can be looked upon as overbearing, overly critical, et cetera. Bottom line, IMO, is that yes, it is a definite asset if channeled correctly. Otherwise, it's just all this energy with no true aim for it to achieve.

As always, IMO.

v

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by valis

I think, to state it a bit more clearly, that being an alpha can be both a boon and a bane. An alpha will always develop traits that bring to the forefront the ability to turn weaknesses into potent strengths, but inherent in that ability is the risk element; a good analogy is the risk/reward in golf. Is it worth it to try to carry that lake in front of the green for a chance at eagle, or should you lay up, put it stiff, and putt for birdie? On the one hand, you clear the lake, you are guaranteed bird at least, but if you don't clear the lake, you'll not walk off with par. So a bit of risk is involved as well, and that's frequently overlooked.

Sometimes alphas can be looked upon as overbearing, overly critical, et cetera. Bottom line, IMO, is that yes, it is a definite asset if channeled correctly. Otherwise, it's just all this energy with no true aim for it to achieve.

As always, IMO.

v

As always my dear friend... you show undisputable logic and worldly wisdom... my hat goes off to you...
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[Amadeus]

Shamou, one of my majors is in psychology. I'll have to dig up my old books and highlight the quotes so I can mail them to you. I'm not sure they are on the intenet. What is your PO Box address so I can mail them to you. lol

You didn't answer my question. I edited my original comment and gave examples of the politicians and Aerosmith as an example of alpha and beta males. One is not more likely to be successful than the other. Would you call the 2 attornies who signed Aerosmith more as alphas than the Aerosmith themselves. The attornies I'm sure are more wealthier.

Again, you stated that in order to achieve great success in any calling most likely you would have to be an alpha which is ridiculous. Where is your documentation on this? Where are your statistics on this? Are you just pulling this out of your whale ass?

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

Are you just pulling this out of your whale ass?

Just for now... suffice to say that Shamu is a whale but Shamou is the name of my Bulldog...
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[Amadeus]

Stop diverting from the points.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

Again, you stated that in order to achieve great success in any calling most likely you would have to be an alpha which is ridiculous. Where is your documentation on this?

By any definition, whether in humans or animals, the alpha is the leader of the pack...

Now, I will not enter into the definition of success here... but it would be my contention that the leader (or alpha) being the leader, will be the first to take whatever he wants out of the pie...

Does that make him a success...??? Again, I will not go into the definition of success... but, I would dare to say that being the leader... chances are that you will definitely get closer to your goals than anyone else down the ladder...
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[valis]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

I, and the majority of people in the psychological field, define alpha as a characteristic, with no particular cause and effect result.

I would have to disagree with that. While I would agree that alpha is a characteristic, it can most definitely be honed and used as an asset; conversely, it can also be something that drags one down, if one does not know either that they HAVE that characteristic or know how to properly utilize it. Being an alpha does not guarantee success; very few things, other than being born to it, do. But being an alpha, being aware of it, and knowing how to turn those particular traits and characteristics will definitely put one ahead of the game. Of that there is no doubt, IMO.

And fwiw, I'm not in the psychology field. Just a computer engineer with a bit of time on his hands.

[MadHyeNa]

Exactly, I strongly agree with valis and Shamou here.

Now I do agree that alpha traits are mostly characteristics. Some of the people have those lucky genes to actually born as an alpha.

I'd say that an alpha male or female means a portfolio of virtues and personality traits that define that specific being. Abilities like dominance and leadership skills just to name a few for the sake of examples. But I am aware that being an alpha includes much more. But I don't want to become redundant.

If you want to involve psychology then I am sure that none of you finds it surpising that you can actually model alpha traits. NLP's modelling earned its reputation in the personal development fields since ages because you could model any traits. You can condition yourself gradually to think, speak, act and behave like an alpha does. That is, as an alpha would do in your vocabulary according to your very own definition.

Alpha does not guarantees success but it certainly does improves the qualify of one's life. Rewriting mental patterns and expanding neuron-pathways isn't some of the most easiest things to do because they require persistence and determination. Consciously picking up and installing some of the key beliefs, abilities and traits into one's psyche and personality means conscious use of those powers later on. If one succeeds to control his/her power with greater responsibility then, obviously, reaps its rewards in all aspects of his/her life.

Today's world is a competitive one. Competition dominates all areas of life. Competition by its very own definition means growing and expanding our personal best. Therefore, if one does consciously model and condition himself/herself with alpha traits for the sake of being a better human being, achieve higher personal power and peak performance, then by all means it seems appropiate and should be supported because it is the highest good of all.

One should start defining an alpha in his/her own perspective. Write down a list of an assumed idealized alpha and gradually install that idealized alpha's beliefs and behaviors. A community of supportive friends is always an useful thing to have because they can pretty much keep you informed about the way you project yourself to the world outside. That's something you cannot monitor. While, on the other hand, you can monitor your willpower, determination and inner strenght with heightened self-awareness which we all are great practitioners of.

Being an alpha does not equals ultimate success per se. A native born alpha may not even use his/her alpha qualities up to fullest potential. But a consciously conditioned alpha will use and focus upon the results and therefore gains that edge that is pretty much required in this today's world of competition. And by being in control of his/her life, other benefits will become inevitable either. Furthemore, acquiring alpha traits is, in my opinion, very useful and practical endeavoring that one can do to improve his/her life, inner strenght and ultimately achieve high levels of self personal development.

I know, I have done it according to my personal very own “alpha” definition.

Later Edit: I've taken that test from "Alpha Assessment" "Work Ethic" Corp. Even though I don't qualify yet as a CEO or a top entrepreneur since I am still an university student, technical contractor/consultant and technical writer, I have lead team(s) thorough the years and was able to maintain proactively multiple projects. All in all, I was amazed by the high number of questions that resonated with me. Some of the key questions were looked basically like if it was some sort of characterization of my personality. I do like personality quizes... they are often rather enlightening.

Results: Strenght: 98.5; Risk: 98.2; Controlling Anger: 66.5; Competitiveness: 96.6; Impatience: 79.7. And the alpha type dominances are as follows by %: Commander, Strategist, Executor, Visionary.

All in all, thanks Shamou for that test. It was impressive and without you sharing that link odds weren't for me that I'd able to find that link on my own. It shed a light on the efficiency of my past years personal development. Thank again.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by MadHyeNa

All in all, thanks Shamou for that test. It was impressive and without you sharing that link odds weren't for me that I'd able to find that link on my own. It shed a light on the efficiency of my past years personal development. Thank again.

I have shared this test with a great many people and I have yet to find one who did not enjoy it and said that they had received some very valuable info on the detailed report that they send you back...

Once again, MadHyeNa... I have appreciated the quality of your post... it's very nice to have you here...
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[Supergirl]

I find that Alpha Males as opposed to Alpha Females are not team players at work, they tend to want to be the boss in every situation and they drive their superivisors crazy because they don't take orders well at least thats what I'm finding on my job. I would also like to add that I recently figured out that is why I have not been successful in my relationships, I have been called an Alpha Female and I would agree but the mistake I made is choosing Alpha men as my partners and thus resulting in constant power struggles. Even on my job the Alpha Males do not respect Alpha Females, on my job they tend to display chauvanistic behavior lol and being and Alpha Female that does not go over too well, I am a team player and wouldn't have it any other way, I find myself allowing them to have their way for the sake of peace but there are times when they just become totally subordinate in their work performance and attitudes and have to be taken to task by our supervisors, there is only but so much room at the top.

[Archmode]

i really dont believe in that stuff, but hey that doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Theyre just labels, and like most labels, i chose to ignore them

[Fred Tracy]

Am I alpha? Who knows.

If the definition of an alpha male is someone who is argumentative and always says what's on his mind in a bold manner, then possibly, but I'm actually trying to get away from that. I dislike my argumentative side. It typically causes problems when there shouldn't be any. I'd like to be far more beta in this regard.

If the definition of an alpha male is someone who is a great leader, then no, not really. I'm my own leader - the king of me. I'm also more apt to lead other people, than to be led, but either way I don't particularly enjoy humans as pack animals.

If an alpha male is someone who doesn't need approval from others, encouragement to get things done, or anyone else to define their life or actions, then yes, I just may be an alpha male.

In MBTI terms, I was an INTJ for the longest time until now, apparently, I'm an ENTJ. But my F is actually pretty high. I'm a sensitive scientist. Awwh.