SMART goals: Can ALL goals be specific?

[irfan]

Greetings! My first post ....

I've been working on formulating personal goals. I'm aware that most of the literature recommends making a goal as SPECIFIC as possible. Actually, I work in community and international development: it's axiomatic in the formulation of a program that you set specific goals in order to be able to measure the success of a program, so the idea makes perfect sense to me.

But while I can set specific SHORT-term goals for many of my activities, it's often difficult for me to set a realistic and meaningful LONG-term goal.

For example, I enjoy reading both fiction and non-fiction, but I often get lazy in my reading habits. I've set myself some short term reading goals, such as "I've made a wish list on Amazon of 100 books that I'd like to read" or "I've finished reading five Joseph Conrad novels".

But I don't seem to be able to formulate a realistic long term or life-time goal: "I've read all the books in the US Congressional Library"? Hmm, no, I guess not.

That's just an example: I can think of many others. Travel, for example: a mid-term goal is to take the train from Beijing to Moscow. But I don't really want to set a goal of visiting 100 countries before I die! I don't really want just to collect passport stamps!

What do people think?

Thanks!

[irfan]

No-one?

[Brutha]

Can ALL goals be specific?

Yes.
The question is whether it will help you.

But while I can set specific SHORT-term goals for many of my activities, it's often difficult for me to set a realistic and meaningful LONG-term goal.

Then don't.
It doesn't make sense to formulate long term goals because you have the short term goal of following some book that tells you to set long term goals.

[Seibiant]

I agree with Brutha - if you don't know what might be a siutable long term goal then don't set one. It's a waste of time to make up goals you don't really want. Also, by setting short and medium term goals and going on to achieve them you get more clear about what those longer term goals might be.

Sometimes it may happen that a long term goal goes out the window well before it's been achieved because as we achieve some other goals our priorities change.

Having said that if you ever get clear about a long term goal and that you know that you are absolutely positively determined to make it happen then that is a wonderful thing - especially when you eventually make it real!

[Seibiant]

Originally Posted by irfan

Travel, for example: a mid-term goal is to take the train from Beijing to Moscow. But I don't really want to set a goal of visiting 100 countries before I die! I don't really want just to collect passport stamps!

Have you read Steve's post on travel goals (he posted it a few weeks ago). That was very interesting. Rather than making a distinction between short/mid/long term goals he recommends just setting one clear destination where you absolutely insist on going, and eliminate all other thoughts of any other destinations that may be easier to reach/cheaper etc. So if this train journey is your 'thing' then just make sure it happens ... asap

[irfan]

Originally Posted by Seibiant

Have you read Steve's post on travel goals (he posted it a few weeks ago).

No, I haven't. Do you have a link for it? I'd like to see it! Thanks.

[Seibiant]

How to Achieve Travel Goals

there you are

[irfan]

Brutha, thanks for taking the time to respond to my post.

Originally Posted by Brutha

It doesn't make sense to formulate long term goals because you have the short term goal of following some book that tells you to set long term goals.

While your reply may have some merit, I think you are being a little bit presumptuous when you state that I have set myself "the short term goal of following some book". I certainly never said that that was what I'd done in my original post: rather, I said "most of the literature recommends making a goal as SPECIFIC as possible." I also mentioned that in the industry I work in, the development sector, log frames for programs are usually designed that way too.

But I take your point that it's worth considering alternative ways of formulating goals.

Again, thanks for your response.

Seibiant, I skimmed Steve's article and will put it on my kindle to read tomorrow. Actually, I already implement many of his ideas - I particularly like "Obsess Over Your Destination" - I start planning a trip, even a slightly fantastic one, by reading as many books on the destination as I can, not just travel guides, but literature, politics, history, anything. I also participate in travel forums such as Thorntree and make contact with expats and others who live where I want to travel.

And I've done some excellent trips over the past few years: a trip to the holy city of Mecca in Saudi; a 1600 km motorbike ride through Ha Giang, an off-the-path province in the far north of Vietnam; swimming with whale sharks in Dongsol; and around Xieng Kok on the Burma-Laos border.

I'm not particularly financially rich, my income is far lower than, say, the average American's. I'm lucky in that as a freelance worker, I can find time to take these trips.

I'll ride the trans-Mongolian Express before the end of 2012, believe me.

[janicelou]

It does not matter if they are "specific"

What matters is they need to be "measurable"

[irfan]

Janicelou, hmm, yes, I get that. The difference between "I'd like to be thinner" (or even worse, "I'm too fat") compared to "I'll weigh 70kg by 1 December". I could even tie THAT one to my life time goal of being a healthy, active, productive 100 year old in 2063.

I'm just thinking more about the short term goals that don't seem to link clearly to life-time or long term goals.

Well, it's one o'clock now. Bed time. Achievement of short term goal of waking up at six for a two hour walk is looking iffy. Thanks for your comment!

[Acting Like Godot]

All goals can be made measurable. However they may end up missing the point, or at least losing some of the essence.

Some examples - how do you make these goals more measurable?

- to paint very artistic pictures
- to be a kinder person
- to be an outstanding parent
- to improve my public speaking skills
- to enjoy my work

You CAN build some metrics around each of these goals. None of the metrics however will really capture the goal ....

[Brutha]

I said "most of the literature recommends making a goal as SPECIFIC as possible." I also mentioned that in the industry I work in, the development sector, log frames for programs are usually designed that way too.

You still say that you think you should set long term goal because some authority tells you that you should set long term goals.

I don't think that goal setting because you think you are supposed to set goal is a good idea.

One of the bigger achievement I had this year was to have a big article about one of my projects in the biggest German online newspaper. That article lead to a dozen of other inquiries from journalists.
If I would have set goals at christmas than I would have never thought about putting something related to newsmedia.
The journalist found me and wanted to make an article with me.

If all my time would have been sheduled on some goal that I set last Christmas than I would have had time to meet with the journalist.
The flexibility to persue unforseen opportunities is very important.

Let's say I want to research and find knowledge that improves the lives of other people.
I could set the goal to get a nobel prize.
Setting that goal would mean that I don't engage a lot of ideas that have no chance of winning a nobel prize. The guy's that made the medical breakthrough that might have saved the most human lifes in the last century didn't get a nobel. The assosiation between cancer and cigarettes didn't lead to a nobel prize even through it's very valuable research.

I'm at a point where I don't have any specific goal with a timeframe of more than a two years because I can't predict my the person I am in two years well enough to say which goal he should persue.

To me that means that my future is intersting.

If you can predict your life in ten years well enough to choose a ten year goal outside of family planning than there's a good chance that you aren't working on problems that matter.

[irfan]

Originally Posted by Brutha

You still say that you think you should set long term goal because some authority tells you that you should set long term goals.

I AM reading Brian Tracy at the moment, yes. But I don't like the word "authority". Just listening to someone who's made it his life's work. Could we go with "teacher", "guide" or "advisor" instead? As a younger man, I was an anarchist activist, and the word "authority" still causes a minor allergic reaction.

I suppose the difference is that an authority doesn't have to justify his arguments or convince you of their validity. You just take their word and do what they say. That's certainly not what I'm doing. With my original post, I was questioning and asking how - or whether - other people linked short and long term goals.

Originally Posted by Brutha

One of the bigger achievement I had this year was to have a big article about one of my projects in the biggest German online newspaper. That article lead to a dozen of other inquiries from journalists.If I would have set goals at christmas than I would have never thought about putting something related to newsmedia. The journalist found me and wanted to make an article with me.

Congratulations! I hope the project continues to attract the attention I'm sure it deserves!

I think you can set goals well into the future, but you can also constantly revise them as opportunities present themselves, which is exactly what you did.

My goals relate to writing and exploring the world I live in through words. In 2010, someone from a major development agency rather unexpectedly called and invited me to write a book on marginal people in Indonesia. It turned out to be the most exciting, rewarding, interesting project I've ever worked on. (Follow the link on my signature to find out more!)

Of course, I couldn't put writing that particular book in my list of goals before I was asked to do it, it was an opportunity that presented itself. But it was entirely congruent with my longer term goals. It wasn't like before that I was working as a plumber or an electrician, and I suddenly became a writer! In fact, there was a clear progression:

article in magazine > book for minor NGO > major book for much bigger agency

Originally Posted by Brutha

Let's say I want to research and find knowledge that improves the lives of other people.
I could set the goal to get a nobel prize.

The Nobel Prize? Ha! Over-rated and too highly politicised. A good medical researcher should have a much more ambitious goal than that! Seriously, have you ever tried to get through one of Solzhenitsyn's books?

All of a sudden, I remember an interview I did with an incredibly beautiful fisherman's daughter from the Bajau tribe, the sea gypsies. She was the first girl in her district to finish school, she's doing her Master's degree now. Her original long term goal - very, very ambitious for someone in her position - was to finish school so that she could get a job as a shop assistant. THAT was a clear long term goal! but it grew as she did!

[Brutha]

I suppose the difference is that an authority doesn't have to justify his arguments or convince you of their validity. You just take their word and do what they say. That's certainly not what I'm doing.

Than let's ask:
What benefit do you search through setting specific long term goals?

Just for the record, the Yale goal setting study doesn't exist.

[irfan]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Than let's ask:
What benefit do you search through setting specific long term goals?

Hmm. A good question. It's on the tip of my tongue to say "if you can't measure it, how do you know you've got there?", but that is too facile an answer. I'm aware that it's not a sincere answer on my part.

Hmm. I feel that there is an answer, but it's not coming quickly or clearly. I'll have to leave that and contemplate on it for a while.

Originally Posted by Brutha

Just for the record, the Yale goal setting study doesn't exist.

Source? Or do I accept you as an authority on this subject?

Hehe. Just teasing, Brutha. Not that it really matters. It doesn't detract or add much. I'm not planning on buying a used car from Brian Tracy, so whether he's telling a few fibs doesn't really matter. At the core of his work, I sense integrity. I intuit it.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Brutha

What benefit do you search through setting specific long term goals?

Errrr, they help you to set specific middle-term and short-term goals?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Brutha

I don't think that goal setting because you think you are supposed to set goal is a good idea.

One of the bigger achievement I had this year was to have a big article about one of my projects in the biggest German online newspaper. That article lead to a dozen of other inquiries from journalists.
If I would have set goals at christmas than I would have never thought about putting something related to newsmedia.
The journalist found me and wanted to make an article with me.

If all my time would have been sheduled on some goal that I set last Christmas than I would have had time to meet with the journalist.
The flexibility to persue unforseen opportunities is very important.

Let's say I want to research and find knowledge that improves the lives of other people.
I could set the goal to get a nobel prize.
Setting that goal would mean that I don't engage a lot of ideas that have no chance of winning a nobel prize. The guy's that made the medical breakthrough that might have saved the most human lifes in the last century didn't get a nobel. The assosiation between cancer and cigarettes didn't lead to a nobel prize even through it's very valuable research.

I'm at a point where I don't have any specific goal with a timeframe of more than a two years because I can't predict my the person I am in two years well enough to say which goal he should persue.

To me that means that my future is intersting.

If you can predict your life in ten years well enough to choose a ten year goal outside of family planning than there's a good chance that you aren't working on problems that matter.

Brutha, you can set long-term goals (eg 5-year goals or 10-year goals) and review them every, say, 6 months.

Along the way, you might tweak and revise them; or drop those that no longer appeal to you; or add new long-term goals.

[irfan]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Errrr, they help you to set specific middle-term and short-term goals?

Godot, thank you. I wonder if you could help by suggesting a way of formulating a long term goal for a process that seems ongoing and without a clear end? Like reading?

For example, I have clear short term goals, to read certain books about oral history (Studs Terkel, !Kung Woman, etc.). I also have a goal of regularly checking Amazon to find books that I want to purchase, to have a "wish list" of 100 books that I want to buy and read.

But I think it would help to have a long term goal, the "northern star" in the distance that I steer my little boat towards. But I'm having trouble finding the way to formulate a long term goal like that.

Can you give me a hypothetical goal for a process like that?

I'm getting lots of interesting ideas from this forum and I'm enjoying interacting with the people who participate on it --- but I did join for the specific goal of finding out how other people do this ... and I'm still feeling frustrated that I'm not quite catching something.

The feeling is like not quite remembering where I put my sunglasses, just as I'm about to go out of the house and when everything else is ready to go .....

[Shift]

Originally Posted by irfan

Godot, thank you. I wonder if you could help by suggesting a way of formulating a long term goal for a process that seems ongoing and without a clear end? Like reading?

Ironically, the goal of "reading" isn't specific at all and therefore tough to measure.

How would you know when you've achieved your goal of reading? After having read a single book? Ten? Fifty?

Do they all have to be on the same topic?

What about time period? Would reading fifty books over ten years do it or would it have to be fifty books in a year?

Try asking yourself specific questions about that goal and see what you come up with. I like to call that drilling down and I find it quite useful.

[irfan]

Originally Posted by Shift

Ironically, the goal of "reading" isn't specific at all and therefore tough to measure.

Yes, exactly! How do you measure or set goals for something that's a life long process? That's my question!

[beautyscientist]

I don't think there are any general rules about goal setting. Our brains are set up with two highly specific short term goals - get some dinner and avoid being dinner. By and large society has met those two goals already for us now, so the rest is up to us.

Personally I have found putting a lot of effort into goal setting is usually time wasted, though it can be fun. If I can work out the most important thing I need to be doing today, that is usually enough.

[irfan]

Originally Posted by beautyscientist

Personally I have found putting a lot of effort into goal setting is usually time wasted, though it can be fun. If I can work out the most important thing I need to be doing today, that is usually enough.

Interesting take. Could you tell me why you think it's time wasted? I had a quick look at your blog: you seem to put quite a lot of energy into blogging and thinking about time management, procrastination and so on -- so why do you find it rewarding to spend time on those matters, but not on goal setting?

[beautyscientist]

As I said there are no rules. I have had a huge problem with procrastination over the last couple of years that has stopped me achieving one of my main goals. So for me, at the moment, it is a strategic problem. My view is that you can usually work out your goals in very little time. Working a plan to get the most out of a given day takes a fair bit longer. But without many many successful days I will never get to my goal.

But I suppose it depends on just what goal you are going for. If you want to do something very specific you might need to have a very detailed plan all the way from here to there. But for most of us, just getting the stuff in front of us done and on to the next job is the key.

Incidentally the blog is pretty much a tactic for overcoming a few road blocks I have right now, not a goal in its own right.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by irfan

Can you give me a hypothetical goal for a process like that?

Mmmm, something like this?

"By [31 December 2021], to read [400] books, and at least [7] on each of the following topics: [ ], [ ], [ ], [ ], [insert topic that interests you]"

I don't know if that's helpful ......

[Seibiant]

With setting goals in the area of reading, would it first be helpful to decide whether you're aiming towards getting something out of it (in a broad sense)? For example, you might set a goal such as getting a PhD which would entail extensive reading. this would entail reading in a focused way, but would limit your freedom to read what you like since you'd have to specialize in a particular field.

Setting a professional goal such as writing X amount of articles in your field is also a possibility - these would presumably require you to read a lot in preparation. (It sounds as if you already do this kind of thing. Does it interest you/make you want to set it as a long-term goal?)

Or on the other hand if all you want out of reading is the sheer pleasure and joy that comes from learning then the type of goal and reading patterns would be different. This would be more like the 'Amazon Wishlist' kind of reading and is probably harder to set goals for - maybe because goals aren't necessary for this kind of reading.

[Bongza]

Before setting a goal, you should be desperate before having a desire to achieve it, and should also see the end results but above all goals should be measurable and specific.

[Shift]

Originally Posted by irfan

Yes, exactly! How do you measure or set goals for something that's a life long process? That's my question!

Just looking at your OP, I noticed travel was on there. If travel is something that is quite important to you, let's consider that criteria for a good life. From there, you can set your goals (Ex. Train from Beijing Moscow).

One of my criteria for a good life is learning. Setting the goal of, "As of the end of my life, I have learned many things" is kind of silly. To specify it, I simply have to break it down. Learning is simply something I do, with many sub-goals inside of it. A specific learning goal could be something like, "As of January 1, 2012, I learned how to cook five vegan dishes without looking at the recipe".

Specific goals are important because without them, who knows where we'll end up?

[irfan]

Originally Posted by beautyscientist

As I said there are no rules.

Only rules that we make for ourselves because they work for us. I'm still trying to find those rules for myself. But thanks for your input and ideas.

[beautyscientist]

Originally Posted by Shift

Specific goals are important because without them, who knows where we'll end up?

Good point. But it is a value judgement as to whether or not that is an argument in favour of them or against them.

[irfan]

Thanks, everyone! I'm beginning to think I'm pushing too hard to make everything fit into a perfect system. Haha! Something about "Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good" or something like that.

It will reveal itself as time goes by. I've got plenty of things to get on with until it does.

Seibiant, about the Amazon wish list: I got a Kindle a while back, and I love it. I don't like to say of an electronic gadget that "It changed my life!" but my Kindle, um, changed my life. Books in Indonesia are hard to get hold of and expensive, so it's great. I do put books on the list that support specific projects (at the moment, anything on oral history), but not exclusively. Can just be a novel I want to read, or anything. Could well put something on the Trans-Siberian Express on it!

Godot, yeah, your suggestion makes me realize that the lifetime reading goal is silly or irrelevant.

Shift, yep, I agree: I've got two books I wanna read by the end of the week (by the way, Studs Terkel is brilliant!). Like that.

Cheers, everyone! Some useful ideas.