The Secret vs Altruism

[ginkgo]

I saw where a guy was asking if altruism (helping others) is evil since a lady who wrote a book said so. If that is so, then Jesus and Buddha were evil since Jesus and Buddha did that and taught that. But Jesus taught the same idea that Socrates taught hundreds of years before him. Socrates was born about 40 years after Buddha. They taught that there is somethng very important like a soul that exists after death.

I saw the movie The Secret (I knew about it before seeing the movie). It is a repackaging of the idea of positive thinking like the book Think and Grow Rich. Now the secret is about getting everything you want by attracting it from thinking about it.

But there is one huge problem with this. There is one single thing that is more important than everything else. If there is a problem with this then everythng else is dropped like a wedding, important business meeting, a meeting with the president and the Pope.

What is this single thing that takes priority? It is staying alive or avoiding death. That is more important than everything else. So it is more important to attract that than anything else. But no amount of thinking or anything else can enable you to avoid it. This is the only certain thing about everyone's future that they will die even if they never think about it. The Secret totally ignores the one thing certain in life-- death.

Now tomorrow people will die. Now some may say when that happens that Ginkgo is a prophet who predicted the future. Others may say that it only happened because Ginkgo attracted it. But the smart ones know that is happens everyday.

So the secret is about collecting treasures on earth that Jesus says will decay and rot. But there is an experiece that is much greater than you can get from attaining anything on earth. If you were to feel it, you would choose it over everything else. Also this experience does not die when the body dies. It is much geater than getting everything that you can imagine.

Jesus says that people look here and there for heaven but the kingdom of heaven lies in getting everything that you want. Did I get that wrong? Luke 17:21

New International Version (©1984)
nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

King James Bible
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

American King James Version
Neither shall they say, See here! or, see there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

[MariconesUnited]

How exactly is the secret at odds with altruism?

[SatvikBeri]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

I saw where a guy was asking if altruism (helping others) is evil since a lady who wrote a book said so. If that is so, then Jesus and Buddha were evil since Jesus and Buddha did that and taught that. But Jesus taught the same idea that Socrates taught hundreds of years before him. Socrates was born about 40 years after Buddha. They taught that there is somethng very important like a soul that exists after death.

No. Precision is extremely important here. One of the meanings of altruism is concern for others at the expense of one's own values and happiness, and Ayn Rand was always clear to specify that as the definition she thought was evil. Saying she was against helping others at all is just ridiculous.

[FelineNostalgia]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

How exactly is the secret at odds with altruism?

Yes I'm kinda puzzled, you could also argue that if you boil both of them down they have similar principles more so than opposing ones. I mean both the law of attraction and Buddha constantly go on about how important your thoughts are and non of them really focus around death as in death they try to get you to view it as more of a transition

I'm just not grasping the principles you're trying to get across maybe?

[arpee]

The Secret, is about positive thinking so that you can bring positive stuff into your life. If you feel that death is "scary" or "bad" then this is something to work on because that is messing up your vibes and what you attract.

As for altruism, sacrificing for others. That is a personal choice. No one is forcing you to sacrifice for others and maybe helping others makes you happy.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by SatvikBeri

No. Precision is extremely important here. One of the meanings of altruism is concern for others at the expense of one's own values and happiness, and Ayn Rand was always clear to specify that as the definition she thought was evil. Saying she was against helping others at all is just ridiculous.

The guy on the post asking the question about what Ayn Rand said did not specify that. "I have been reading Ayn Rand's books and she says altruism is evil. I mean America was built on altruism. How can it be evil? Don't we need altruism so society can progress?"

It looks like I was taken in by the multiiple definitions of words. I have suggested that people write with the number definition of a word. Diets1 do not work so get a good diet2. Self-esteem1 is good and self-esteem2 (conceit) is bad. Sugar1a is unhealthy but sugar1b is healthy.

So Ayn is talking about altruism2.

Definition of ALTRUISM

1

: unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others

2

: behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species

So his question was like asking how can self-esteem1 be good and self-esteem2 be bad. How can altruism2 be bad when America was built on atruism1?

I did not know about the 2nd definition. I was going by what positive psychology says about altruism. Also I did not compare the 2. Positive psychology is all about feeling the most happiness possible. It says that altruism1 creates a euphoric feeling greater than the normal happiness of getting what you want. Also a college class on psychology went out to try out altruism.

After the experiment was over, they were driving home and a guy said to let him out here (a mile from his house). A female student watched him get out and start to shovel the snow for an old woman. This female student started crying and it caused her to instantly want to marry the guy.

Dr Wayne Dyer said that they have measured people's brainwaves with experiments like this. He said the results show that the person doing the kind act has a strong positive change in brain waves. But they found the person receiving it also has that change and so do others witnessing it. So science is showing the power of altruism1.

So the post could be The Secret vs the law of reciprocity. The latter is saying that what was left out of the bible was what Jesus said was the reason for why you should do onto others the way that you would have them do unto you. The law of reciprocity (also golden rule from ages before the bible) says that what you do for others happens to you. Also karma or most recently My Name is Earl.

Now there are sayings about the above like "Actions speak louder than words [which are thoughts that are spoken] or "Talk is cheap." So the secret is about the saying "He who dies with the most toys, wins." Whereas with altruism1, what you do (your deeds) affects the soul that lives on afer you die.

[Kronique]

I LITERALLY don't understand why you cannot have both. Altruism and positivity (the secret) go hand-in-hand.

When you have good people skills, and you're a positive person, everything else just falls into place.


But I don't know about some ultimate form of self-sacrifice for others. Thats absurd. You have to survive to do anything in this world.

What happened to the idea of living a selfless life? Hoarding wealth, etc, seems like a form of overcompensating. It sounds cheesy because people say it over and over again, but its true. Relationships are the real wealth.

Who needs altruism when people solve their emotional issues? Start to become more empathetic to each other? There becomes no need. Everyone looks out for one-another.

Altruism is just a word. There is a whole spectrum of possibility surrounding it though. I'm talking about when people let themselves feel.

If one is somehow closed off to their emotions and is embarrassed to be sensitive its something that needs to be worked on. You might as well be lame or partially blind. >:/

[janicelou]

think and grow rich is about positive thinking????? i think you need to re-read that one!

[irfan]

Hmm, death and altruism ....

If you care about other people and if your values transcend your own personal achievements, then death isn't so scary. If everything in your life is about YOU, then everything important ceases when you die. If you care about something else, even the standard fall-backs like your own children, or something else like, say, the discovery of a new drug, then your own death doesn't matter so much. What you care about will still go on after you're gone.