Anthony Robbins Seminars

[Lonewolf]

Hi, recently I went to an Unleash the Power Within seminar. It was brilliant, I walked on fire and felt ecstatic and I'm enjoying positive results months afterwards. What troubles me though is the degree to which future courses were promoted and the dubious use of post hypnotic suggestions to make sales. Tony would whip up the crowd, make them say yes yes yes and then hit them with a sales pitch, which I don't believe to be ethical. Also Mastery University and other courses are incredibly expensive (more than 10k). Has anyone out there completed these? What did you think, was it worth the money.
I think Tony has an unusual gift, he is a compelling and fascinating guy and I believe fully in his message....but I'm not a sucker; and there are aspects of his organisation that remind me of Scientology or some other quasi religious sales company.

[Erin Pavlina]

Steve and I attended the Unleash the Power Within seminar probably 8 years ago or so. We walked on fire. I burned my feet (lost focus midway through), Steve walked on the same coals and didn't burn his feet. So I can at least attest to the power of focus.

But yeah, we signed up for the "free" coaching session and all we got at the end was a pushy sales pitch for our trouble. These people weren't interested in helping us achieve our dreams, they wanted us to go into debt to go to mastery university so we could learn how to achieve our dreams.

I like Tony Robbins and I think he's brilliant. But I was turned off by the sales pitches too.

So we take the good, throw out the bad, and keep on trucking (but not on hot coals!)

[annie]

I have not been to Tony Robbins.

I have gone to a different seminar program called "Impact"....if you've heard of Lifespring...it's similar.

Exact same tactics. Very disappointing in my opinion. You're on this "high" and then you get hit with this pressure to keep going.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Steve and I attended the Unleash the Power Within seminar probably 8 years ago or so. We walked on fire. I burned my feet (lost focus midway through), Steve walked on the same coals and didn't burn his feet. So I can at least attest to the power of focus.

But yeah, we signed up for the "free" coaching session and all we got at the end was a pushy sales pitch for our trouble. These people weren't interested in helping us achieve our dreams, they wanted us to go into debt to go to mastery university so we could learn how to achieve our dreams.

I like Tony Robbins and I think he's brilliant. But I was turned off by the sales pitches too.

So we take the good, throw out the bad, and keep on trucking (but not on hot coals!)

Yeah I remember hearing Steve's podcast. You missed him when Tony Robbins invited him on-stage!

[Erin Pavlina]

Yes I was home in agony with burned feet. I wish I had been there to see him on stage with Tony though.

[DKSprocket]

Here's my experience with Tony Robbins:

I went to the Unleash the Power Within seminar in London last year in may. It was definately a life changing experience - most of the goals and beliefs I focused on are still hardwired into my subconscious. I had been warned about the sales pitch beforehand so I was pretty sceptical when he reached that part, however I decided to stay since I wanted to hear about the Mastery University. At the time I found the sales pitch to be a bit pushy (although not as bad as I expected) but I did find the description of Mastery University to be quite compelling. I was determined not to sign up for anything, but I did decide to keep my mind open regarding signing up later. I also signed up for the "free coaching" and got an annoying sales call disguised as coaching - I just shrugged it off and used it as an opportunity to ask a lot of questions about the courses, but it did lower my esteem of the Robbins organisation.

This year in february he came to London again. Meanwhile I had been reading quite a bit on his online forums (link) so I decided to apply to become a volunteer. I had several reasons for that, but the main ones was that I was training to become a life coach (a decision I made after the first UPW) and I wanted to take part in the process of changing the lives of the 10000 people attending the seminar. My application was approved and I had a great time helping out and getting more of an inside view of what goes on. The only part of it I felt reluctant about was assisting in the sales pitch and signing people up for the mastery program. Turned out that they only wanted volunteers who already had done the Mastery University to do the sign-ups and the rest of us was assigned to answer practical questions about the program - something I didn't have any problem doing. This also gave me a chance to talk to a LOT of people who had done Mastery University (and his leadership courses) to get at inside view of what the courses were like. The message I got from pretty much everyone was that the courses were amazing and that they had gotten a lot more than they had expected from it (this was from people volunteering, so they weren't paid by Robbins, although you could argue that people probably only volunteer if they really like the stuff he's doing). As volunteers we got offered a 5% discount if we wanted to sign up for Mastery University and I decided to take the offer (we weren't being pitched, although they did encourage us to talk to other volunteers about it if we were considering it).

For me the decision boiled down to seeing it as an investment in myself and my future. $10k is a lot of money but I considered it likely that the skills I learned would pay themselves back in 5 years or so. Furthermore this was something I really wanted to do and it was a time in my life where I needed to make a decision regarding my own financial situation - due to a change in the local building laws I could now mortage my apartment and I was considering taking a loan so I could quit my job and further my own development/coaching education while slowly building my own company. I knew that signing up for the courses was the first step, because taking the loan would be the only way for me to pay for it. This might sound a little backward, but at the time I knew I needed a little push to take the first step.

Since then I have been back to volunteer once more (and this time I felt completely at ease answering questions about the mastery university during the sales pitch) and I just completed the first course of Mastery University. This course was a big eye-opener in a lot of areas of my life and gave me a lot of resources and experiences that I know will be very valuable to me. An immediate result has been that I am experimenting with a much healthier diet (mostly raw/vegan) - the transition has been very smooth since I got started doing while taking the course and it has simply felt natural to keep at it since then.

I am looking forward to doing the Date With Destiny course in december. This is the course that everyone is mentioning as the cornerstone of his teaching (some have called it "UPW on steroids"). Ever since signing up I have used this course as my target deadline for exploring my options for designing my future business. I know that when I go there I'll be ready to lay down the exact plan about what to do for the next year or two and I trust that the process there will enable me to do so.

To sort of sum things up - I do agree that some of his sales methods need to be updated for the new millenium. Personally I find the pitch he does himself to be ok (although a bit on the hard side, its probably more tailored for the american market). But I think the methods of the "MUST Team" that does the sales calls are way too pushy. I also think that Joseph (the guy who did the health day seminar) was stepping over the lines several times during his talk. However from what I have seen of the company by now I think that they are running a very fair business and that the main motivation of most of the people working there is in helping as many people as possible. Of course they also run an effective business, but you just can't fake the level of passion I've experienced being radiated from most of his employees.

My advice to you would be keep a healthy grounded attitude and examine the pros and cons for yourself. Also maybe ask yourself if the objections you have is an authentically bad vibe about it or if it could simply be a part of your mind looking for an excuse for this to be "too good to be true".

I can see you live in Australia. I know there are several Robbins networking groups there that does regular meetings with invited speakers - if you're interested I can look up information about it (if you tell me your nearest big city). I'll also be happy to answer any other questions you (or others) might have about his courses.

Cheers,

Rasmus

[Amit]

Hey wolfy!

I went to the one last month in London and I can truly say that I had an awesome time! To me, Tony is an awesome human being and he deeply believes in himself and his learning systems more than anything which makes it easy for him to sell his products.

But at the end when he went on about all the other courses I just switched off as I didn't feel I needed them at this time. I thoroughly had a great time and I didn't let that part spoil my experience of the whole event.

How he keeps on going for the whole day I will never know!

On another note, I did the firewalk too and I was ecstatic when I got to the other side. The horrible thing was, the day before the firewalk, I badly hurt my foot and so I had a 3 inch bruise on the ball of my foot and I could barely walk, but I somehow managed to block out the pain long enough to stand in the queue and go through the firewalk. AND...not to mention they laid down fresh coals just before it was my turn! but YAY, I still did it without getting burned!

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Amit

On another note, I did the firewalk too and I was ecstatic when I got to the other side. The horrible thing was, the day before the firewalk, I badly hurt my foot and so I had a 3 inch bruise on the ball of my foot and I could barely walk, but I somehow managed to block out the pain long enough to stand in the queue and go through the firewalk. AND...not to mention they laid down fresh coals just before it was my turn! but YAY, I still did it without getting burned!

When Erin was speaking of being burned, I thought it was a metaphor for losing focus (burning out). So you guys really walked on goals, very interesting

[DKSprocket]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

Steve and I attended the Unleash the Power Within seminar probably 8 years ago or so. We walked on fire. I burned my feet (lost focus midway through), Steve walked on the same coals and didn't burn his feet. So I can at least attest to the power of focus.

Here's my own "burned feet" story:

4 days before going to London to see Tony Robbins the first time I went to a firewalk here in Denmark. I hadn't tried it before, but figured it would be a nice "warmup" before the real deal. I had read a bit about the "science" behind walking on coals so I came there with the impression that it was mostly a gimmick and as long as you walked at a steady pace you couldn't get burned. I went there with my girlfriend at the time and although she was reluctant at first she decided to come after she had read up on the science herself.

When I did the firewalk I made ALL the mistakes in the book: I didn't think it was dangerous so the metaphor of conquering your fears was lost on me, I wasn't in a focused state because I didn't really believe it mattered, and most of my focus was on my girlfriend getting safely across instead of focusing on my own state.

After about two steps onto the coals I realized that it hurt a LOT and that whatever I had read about walking on coals obviously wasn't true. This caused me to start running (another mistake) which only made the hot coals lodge themselves firmly under my feet. When I reached the end of the firewalk we were supposed to put our feet in a big basin of water, but because I was running only one of my feet went into the water - the other (including the burning coals lodged underneath it) continued past the basin. I ended up with quite intense burns on that foot and had to have my girlfriend drive the car home after the event (I felt pretty stupid at that point).

Four days later I was in London and my feet were still hurting from the blisters on my foot. At first I wasn't sure if I wanted to go through the whole thing again, but after listening to Tony Robbins talking about the reasons for doing the firewalk I decided this was an important challenge. And this time the metaphor was VERY powerful because the fear of taking the first step was very real - the pain from the previous walk was still very present in my body. It took a lot determination to walk out on those coals that night, but I am really happy I did it and I only got one very small "hotspot" on the other foot. The feeling after doing it the second time was completely amazing and it really made me realize on a deep level that I CAN do things I set my mind to, even if taking the first step seems impossible.

Rasmus

[Amit]

Yep Alex...we really did it!

As Rasmus pointed out, anyone can do it but you do need to be focused to make sure you don't get burned. Two hours prior to the firewalk, Tony begins teaching everyone how to walk across the fire without getting burned. It takes practice, within your mind, and you learn how to distract yourself, or put yourself in another place, or take the scary thought, and turn it into a sort of cartoon and make it funny!

We did it in a place called the Excel Centre in the Docklands of London. Directly opposite the firewalk, there was a huge Hotel Boat sitting in one of the docks...To take my mind off the firewalk, I pretended that I owned that Hotel boat and I was on my way to pick up the keys!

[Erin Pavlina]

The weird thing for me with the burning of the feet was that I was in agony right afterwards and on the drive home. Despite the fact that Tony said there were nurses standing by in case someone got burned, I couldn't find any and believe me, I looked. So the blisters formed and popped and all this fluid was coming out of them. I was in such pain. As soon as we got home (at 2 in the morning) I turned on the bathtub and literally stood in there until 6am because every time I got out they would hurt again. I finally crawled into bed at 6am and Steve came to wake me at 6:30 to leave!! I said, "No way Jose, I can't walk and I haven't slept yet. No way I'm gonna make it." He left without me. I slept until 10am, woke up and my feet didn't hurt at all. So I raced myself on back to the show. I can't believe I went from agony to feeling totally fine in just a few hours.

[sourceofmiracles]

spontaneous healing. the result of conscious living.

I rarely ever get sick. I get a three day sniffle every now and then.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

The weird thing for me with the burning of the feet was that I was in agony right afterwards and on the drive home. Despite the fact that Tony said there were nurses standing by in case someone got burned, I couldn't find any and believe me, I looked. So the blisters formed and popped and all this fluid was coming out of them. I was in such pain. As soon as we got home (at 2 in the morning) I turned on the bathtub and literally stood in there until 6am because every time I got out they would hurt again. I finally crawled into bed at 6am and Steve came to wake me at 6:30 to leave!! I said, "No way Jose, I can't walk and I haven't slept yet. No way I'm gonna make it." He left without me. I slept until 10am, woke up and my feet didn't hurt at all. So I raced myself on back to the show. I can't believe I went from agony to feeling totally fine in just a few hours.

Erin, did all the blisters disappear during your four hours of sleep as well? Maybe being on a vegan diet is more powerful than I thought!

[Lonewolf]

Hi - DKSprocket - I live in Sydney so yeah I would be interested in finding networking groups out here or anyone interested in more firewalking, with Anthony Robbins or without him.
The mental state I was in during the firewalk was the most intense experience of my life. All I could see was white light. I was absolutely ecstatic and walked the fire again and again. There was a sense of absolute invincibility and alignment with the great creative force that flows in the universe. I felt that my true self came out - the part that is immortal and beyond ego and beyond the petty problems of this one life. It was nothing less than a full blown religious experience and I can't get enough of it - it's completely addictive.
What is interesting is how firewalking is a part of most ancient cultures. Even in medieval Europe, firewalking or associated tests of faith involving fire were commonly used before the advent of Christianity, when it was banned as a pagan practice. Sometimes they used red hot chains, ploughshares, or pulled stones out of boiling water barehanded. Typically it was used a test of truth, for there is no way that a guilty person could summon up that kind of pure energy to protect themselves from burning.
I've heard of evangelical Christian groups dancing with rattlesnakes and drinking lye in the Appalacian mountains - has anyone ever experienced that?
As for Tony Robbins - why are his prices to high? It seems a bit exploitative to charge the cost of a car for a couple of seminars; and no one should be pitched to while they are in an altered state and unable to make a balanced decision - it's like getting someone drunk and then making them gamble on roulette with their credit cards.

[Erin Pavlina]

I can't remember if the blisters healed, but I had no more pain. I was able to put my shoes and socks on and jump around on the seats with no pain from the burns. I didn't have any burn cream or anything either. Just lucky I guess.

[Lonewolf]

Earlier on, someone posted this about my concerns:

"My advice to you would be keep a healthy grounded attitude and examine the pros and cons for yourself. Also maybe ask yourself if the objections you have is an authentically bad vibe about it or if it could simply be a part of your mind looking for an excuse for this to be "too good to be true".

- (This is a typical Scientology/cult type tactic) - use reverse direction, circular arguments to try and discredit the logical reasoning of the "patient". You can justify almost anything with anti-reasoning such as this and on weak minded people they probably work from time to time as they are designed to destroy self confidence and centeredness. Many people who attend self help seminars are already vulnerable precisely in this area of their lives. More troubling still is that it's coming from a self-confessed volunteer within the Tony Robbins organisation and someone who has already paid 10 grand for a course.
Which leads me to another question - why does a guy like Tony Robbins who boasts about all the hundreds of millions of dollars he makes, need volunteers to run his seminars? Surely they should be paid a small percentage of these enormous profits for the work they do. It's not like this is a charity or something. Looks like exploitation to me.
Still though, I think going to Unleash the Power Within is one of the best things you could ever do (as long as you don't get suckered that is).

[Natz]

I went to the UPW weekend in London in September too and I absolutely loved the experience, from being a depressed person with no self-esteem, I walked out of the weekend on air, with an invisible cord holding me up from my chest - everyone noticed the difference in my outlook and my attitude. The whole hype and energy associated with everything Tony does is amazing and I felt really inspired - I couldn't afford any of the other courses if I tried right now, I found the sales pitch a bit OTT since even the UPW weekend was a financial stretch, even though well worth the experience.

Now my biggest challenge is to maintain the momentum.

I did the fire-walk too - not very elloquently though... I managed the walking the coals part while my mind was definitely on another planet, can barely remember it... what I do remember however, was celebrating at the end with the compulsory whoop of joy whilst standing in a puddle of water, slipping and landing flat on my back. I managed the rest of the weekend very gently without being able to jump as energetically as I would have liked to and with my poor husband having to physically pull me out of bed in the mornings from an agonised prone position. Just over a month later and I am fine, no problems with my neck and back thank goodness, but it isn't an experience that I am going to forget very soon

[DKSprocket]

Hey Lonewolf,

First of all the link to the Sydney peer group is Sydney Dream Team

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Earlier on, someone posted this about my concerns:

"My advice to you would be keep a healthy grounded attitude and examine the pros and cons for yourself. Also maybe ask yourself if the objections you have is an authentically bad vibe about it or if it could simply be a part of your mind looking for an excuse for this to be "too good to be true".

- (This is a typical Scientology/cult type tactic) - use reverse direction, circular arguments to try and discredit the logical reasoning of the "patient". You can justify almost anything with anti-reasoning such as this and on weak minded people they probably work from time to time as they are designed to destroy self confidence and centeredness. Many people who attend self help seminars are already vulnerable precisely in this area of their lives.

Seems you put your emphasis on the second half of the sentence. I have no personal interest in whether you buy the seminar or not. What I meant was that by no means should you buy the seminar if it doesn't feel right to do so. But also to keep an open mind towards your own initial reaction (whether it came from fear or from your intuition). I'm sorry if this came across as manipulative.

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

More troubling still is that it's coming from a self-confessed volunteer within the Tony Robbins organisation and someone who has already paid 10 grand for a course.

In your first post in this thread you requested feedback from someone who had experience with the course and now you're complaining about it. I went to quite an effort to describe my involvement so that you could judge by yourself whether or not you wanted to listen to my comments.

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Which leads me to another question - why does a guy like Tony Robbins who boasts about all the hundreds of millions of dollars he makes, need volunteers to run his seminars? Surely they should be paid a small percentage of these enormous profits for the work they do. It's not like this is a charity or something. Looks like exploitation to me.

Why shouldn't he use volunteers? Every time he does the seminar the volunteer spots get filled very quickly and they even have a waiting list.

I think a better question would be "What makes people volunteer to do it for free even though they know how much is involved in the seminars?"

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Still though, I think going to Unleash the Power Within is one of the best things you could ever do (as long as you don't get suckered that is).

That's big part of the answer for why people volunteer for free. Its extremely rewarding to see the change it makes in people's lives. For me the biggest thrill is to see the difference in people's eyes from when they arrive on friday to what they look like on sunday when they know that "life will never be the same again."

Rasmus

[Lonewolf]

Yo DJSprocket - thanks for the link, and be assured that I am listening to your valuable comments.

I am sure it is emotionally rewarding to be a volunteer but I think its unethical for a highly commercial enterprise to get people to work for free. If Tony was working for free too (because it's emotionally rewarding) then it would not be an issue.

You said "But also to keep an open mind towards your own initial reaction (whether it came from fear or from your intuition). I'm sorry if this came across as manipulative."

My initial reaction to obvious hard sell tactics combined with a level of brainwashing is not fear-based or intuition based, but rather just common sense and rational avoidance. I'm not going to let anyone sell me anything that I don't want and I have no fear at all in repeating the word "No" over and over again. Also, I would have to say that in my experience initial reactions are almost always correct because they tend to be un-selfconscious.
I did go to the free follow up "coaching session" about a week later and as Erin described, it was a hard and unrelenting sales pitch. But, I was a lot more determined to get my satisfaction and I forced the poor sales guy to listen to my boring issues and coach me. He ended each sentence trying to sell me on Date With Destiny, even promising a "guarantee", but in talking with him and avoiding the persistent tricks, I actually did get a lot of benefit in clarifying my goals and how to get there. He was pretty tired and irritated by the end of the ordeal, but I felt great!