Letting things happen vs. Making things happen

[learnllovelaugh]

How do you guys decide when to focus on making something happen or just patiently wait for it to happen? I think I have trouble telling the difference between patience and laziness, mainly when dealing with other people. I don't really have a particular example, I'm just wondering what your opinions are on the concept. Thanks for any input!

[Angela]

When it comes to circumstances or other people's choices, I let things happen. That can take as long or as little time as it takes.

When it comes to my state, my way of being, or the results I want in my life, I'm at cause in the matter of things happening -- with velocity!

[learnllovelaugh]

Originally Posted by Angela

When it comes to circumstances or other people's choices, I let things happen. That can take as long or as little time as it takes.

When it comes to my state, my way of being, or the results I want in my life, I'm at cause in the matter of things happening -- with velocity!

Ah I'm glad you wrote that. I guess what I'm thinking about are times when other people's choices are directly affecting the results I want in my own life. So maybe: waiting for someone to decide vs. persuading them. Or even waiting for them to care enough to want to persuade you. Does it just take experience to judge the right ammount of patience to have in these situations?

[trishmullen]

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

How do you guys decide when to focus on making something happen or just patiently wait for it to happen? I think I have trouble telling the difference between patience and laziness, mainly when dealing with other people. I don't really have a particular example, I'm just wondering what your opinions are on the concept. Thanks for any input!

What I will always do is keep focussed on making things happen. If I need something to happen to make me reach my goals but this 'something' is outside of my control, then I will find an alternative.

I just never allow one door to close without at least having turned the handle on the next door. I think the key word is 'focus' and providing you retain that then things will happen. Some people may confuse 'focus' with 'dream' but in my mind, focus goes hand in hand with action whereas a dream with action attached will always be just that - a dream.

Nobody trips over mountains. It is the small pebble that causes you to stumble. Pass all the pebbles in your path and you will find you have crossed the mountain. ~Author Unknown

[Syracuse97]

Those that successed make things happen and never wait for it to happen. Be proactive not reactive to any situation and you will find yourself in whole different world. Remember Like attracts like. If you are proactive and never wait for something to happen then you will attract simular people into your circle. Leaving your wilth endless possibility and excitement.

[Syracuse97]

Remember if you wait to long, time might just pass you by and then what you are left with is that old saying of " Could of, Would of, Should of" this is one quote you don't want to repeat. We are sales people no matter how you look at it. There will be many times where you have to sell your idea in order for the person you are speaking too, to buy into your idea.

[Breathe Fully]

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

How do you guys decide when to focus on making something happen or just patiently wait for it to happen? I think I have trouble telling the difference between patience and laziness, mainly when dealing with other people. I don't really have a particular example, I'm just wondering what your opinions are on the concept. Thanks for any input!

I focus and control what I really care of letting everything else that cannot impact my sphere of interests happen.

I would never let my HR to decide upon my career instead I can let HR decide the budget for 2011 markers...:-)

But be very careful about what you can control:

You should focus on what you can control and let what you cannot control go (or if you wish let it happen).

Sometimes it's not easy to recognize what we cannot control.

Trying to change a person behaviour it's a typical example.

[RahulSingh]

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

Ah I'm glad you wrote that. I guess what I'm thinking about are times when other people's choices are directly affecting the results I want in my own life. So maybe: waiting for someone to decide vs. persuading them. Or even waiting for them to care enough to want to persuade you. Does it just take experience to judge the right ammount of patience to have in these situations?

One way to look at it, if you believe in intention-manifestation or law of Attraction or the Universe being generally friendly, is that you can 'create' situations where your interests and those of others are not conflicting. You can keep your focus on achieving states where you, and others, work together towards your goals, and theirs. Believe that there is enough for all and their are ways for everyone to win. Look for such ways, you will find them. They will manifest.
Even if you don't believe in the Law of Attraction, it would make sense to try finding ways for everyone to win.
I would suggest not to wait for others to change. I would rather discuss with them and try to find ways that lead to a win-win situation.

[RahulSingh]

I feel, 'making things happen' and 'letting things happen' are essentially the same things.
There is a force(Universe? God? Life force? energy?) that tries to express itself through us. It wants to do things through us, it wants to create through us. These things it wants to do, are not in conflict with our interests. In fact, we feel the happiest when we let this force work through us. We feel best, when we act as mere observers. When you see a sports person totally focused an achieving, seemingly impossible feats, I feel they are not really making things happen, they are just letting the energy flow through them. That is what I consider, being in the zone. Does it mean they don't make any effort what so ever. I think they do, they work towards removing internal blocks to this energy.
So 'making things happen', means to me that I have to remove my fears and doubts out of the way and let creation create through me. And then I 'let it happen', I let creation create and just observe, with awe and wonder. I just enjoy the miracle unfolding in front of me.
Hope this helps.

[Evolved Einstein]

At the same time you can let things happen and make things happen, what really matters is (Is it worth letting those things happen naturally), or is it worth more to Guide the things you want to make happen, that is the true meaning of life creating happiness for the things you value most.

- Live Life Simple, and Create a Purpose.

[vartann]

It is the same thing.
But it becomes glaring obvious only from the level of Love.

[James81]

One of my first real jobs was at Burger King.

My first real interaction with my boss there at the time was a moment in which I was standing in the kitchen and he came out and he said to me:

"James, there are two types of people in the world. Those that watch things happen and those that make things happen. What type of person are you?"

And then he stood there and stared at me while I stared blankly at him thinking, "Good god, you are such a cockface."

[Mounds]

When it comes to myself, I go for it. When it comes to other people, I change myself in order to change their behavior.
You can nudge people in either the right or wrong direction. If you want your spouse to lose weight, then bringing junk food into the house is a nudge in the wrong direction. Serving dinner on smaller plates is a nudge in the right direction. It's all about facilitating the behavior and being flexible about your own behavior.

[Mounds]

Another good one is cause and effect. Most people will go through life at effect. Things will happen to them because... There's always a reason and it's rarely got anything to do with them. It gives a safe feeling but it's rather limited, compared to being at cause.
When you are at cause, things happen because you are choosing them to happen. It pretty much gives you unlimited choice. Choice of how to react, choice of what to try next time. Being at cause is freedom, while being at effect is a virtual prison.
I believe that the way you make this shift is by simply recognizing your choices, even when you don't think you have any. If you had trouble with sleeping in and were at effect, you'd probably have all sorts of reasons why it went wrong. There might have been a good tv show on the night before, maybe you had to work late, you drank too much, maybe the power kicked out your alarm... Whatever it is, not your fault! If you were at cause, you might make sure there are batteries in your alarm as well as plugging it in. You tape your show, set a limit for your drinking and talk to your boss to make sure you're functional in the morning. You realize that you have far more choice than you originally thought. Apply that to every aspect of your life and see how powerful you can become.

-Tim

[James81]

Originally Posted by Mounds

Things will happen to them because...

That little sentence jumped out at me.

And the reason it did was because that's the standard Parent-to-Child answer for questions that the parent doesn't understand. It's something I say to my own kids all the time.

"Daddy, why does ___ happen?"

"Because."

"Because why?"

"Just because."

Never really thought of it in this light before...that that answer "because" is like "just because..." and that it's very effect-like language. Or at least that's the meanings I gave to it when I was a kid.

"That just the way it isTM"

Nice post, Mounds.

[brendannz]

Sometimes good things take time, but I think for the plant to grow, you need to constantly water it..

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

Ah I'm glad you wrote that. I guess what I'm thinking about are times when other people's choices are directly affecting the results I want in my own life. So maybe: waiting for someone to decide vs. persuading them. Or even waiting for them to care enough to want to persuade you. Does it just take experience to judge the right ammount of patience to have in these situations?

I don't like giving others power over my life in any way, so the idea of allowing others' choices to affect the results I want in my life is anathema.

If I want something for myself, I focus on what I need to do to have it happen for me and I act on that.

In those situations where there are external obstacles injected in my way, again, I look to what I have to do to overcome them.

I have very little patience and almost no respect for anyone who says, "I can't do that because of someone else."

To me, this is about being impeccable. Being impeccable is not being perfect. No one is perfect. But when one is impeccable, they always do everything they are capable of doing to the best of their ability, they take responsibility for their own lives and their own actions and they live according to their values in everything they do.

It is also the heart of the Serenity Prayer: "God grant me the strength [and courage] to change the things I can (that is to ACT), the serenity to accept the things I can't (that is more than "patience"), and the wisdom to know the difference."

[learnllovelaugh]

Let me rephrase my original question. How do you balance accepting things just as they are vs. rejecting something and working to change it? Resting vs. Working?

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

Let me rephrase my original question. How do you balance accepting things just as they are vs. rejecting something and working to change it? Resting vs. Working?

Ask yourself a couple of questions:
1. Is this something I'd like to be changed?
No = done. Accept it and move on.

Yes = question #2:
2. Is it within my power to work toward changing it?
No = done. Accept it and move on.

Yes = Question #3
3. Are the actions I can take to work towards this change worth the potential consequences to me and in line with my core values?
No = done. Accept it and move on.

Yes = Question #4
4. What actions can I take to make the changes that need to be made?

List and act.

There is no "balance" in this. There is only choice. You choose to act or not to act. If you choose to act then you do so to the absolute best of your ability.

This is being impeccable. It has nothing to do with Balance.

Don't get me wrong: Balance is essential in life. But the Balance itself comes into play with realizing and understanding your core values and whether or not your actions are aligned with them.

[learnllovelaugh]

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

Don't get me wrong: Balance is essential in life. But the Balance itself comes into play with realizing and understanding your core values and whether or not your actions are aligned with them.

Hmm so I guess my question in this context is when do I decide to accept a core value or focus on reevaluating and reshaping it? I suppose all I can do is accept and follow my core values as I understand them and they will evolve if and when they need to. Always improving my understanding of my core values should be one of my core values. Does that sound pretty good?

[Robou]

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

I don't like giving others power over my life in any way, so the idea of allowing others' choices to affect the results I want in my life is anathema.

If I want something for myself, I focus on what I need to do to have it happen for me and I act on that.

In those situations where there are external obstacles injected in my way, again, I look to what I have to do to overcome them.

I have very little patience and almost no respect for anyone who says, "I can't do that because of someone else."

To me, this is about being impeccable. Being impeccable is not being perfect. No one is perfect. But when one is impeccable, they always do everything they are capable of doing to the best of their ability, they take responsibility for their own lives and their own actions and they live according to their values in everything they do.

It is also the heart of the Serenity Prayer: "God grant me the strength [and courage] to change the things I can (that is to ACT), the serenity to accept the things I can't (that is more than "patience"), and the wisdom to know the difference."

Great reply! I think exactly the same.

[learnllovelaugh]

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

I have very little patience and almost no respect for anyone who says, "I can't do that because of someone else."

What about when your goal is to motivate/teach/help/guide that particular person? That is what I was thinking when I wrote this:

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

I guess what I'm thinking about are times when other people's choices are directly affecting the results I want in my own life.

There is only so much you can do when the result you want is to see someone else be happy. I'd say there are always points when you have to wait for them to find motivation and progress on their own. And sometimes they just can't/won't progress. You have to be able to judge when to try something else or just be patient and wait for them.

So what would you say to someone who says I can't help this person any more (I can't do that) because this person can't/won't be helped any more (because of someone else)? No respect for them either?

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

Hmm so I guess my question in this context is when do I decide to accept a core value or focus on reevaluating and reshaping it? I suppose all I can do is accept and follow my core values as I understand them and they will evolve if and when they need to. Always improving my understanding of my core values should be one of my core values. Does that sound pretty good?

Yep. That's pretty much what I was getting at.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

What about when your goal is to motivate/teach/help/guide that particular person? That is what I was thinking when I wrote this:

Do you think you can change another person? Can you force them to believe something? Can you alter their core values?

I don't think so. Can you coach? Can you counsel? Can you inform? Yes. But in the end, THEY decide what they will act on. THEY will motivate themselves.

You can always try something more; express your ideas or values in a different way in the hopes that they will understand and/or accept what it is you are trying to do. You can always act on your core value to be of help to others. But THAT is goal. You can only own your actions. You can NOT own those of others. If you truly do all that you can do to the best of your ability then you are successful regardless of the other person's actions or inactions.

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

So what would you say to someone who says I can't help this person any more (I can't do that) because this person can't/won't be helped any more (because of someone else)? No respect for them either?

I would tell them that perhaps they are selling themselves short. I would tell them that they have many more resources at their disposal than perhaps they are aware of. However, if they have truly tried everything to the best of their ability then I honor their decision. Because as I said, you don't own the actions or problems of others.

This may be hard to really understand, but it's NOT all about you. The only thing that is about you is your actions. Everything else is someone else's ****.

I don't know about you, but I have plenty of my own **** without having to pick up someone else's.

[learnllovelaugh]

[QUOTE=Mato Kinze;790810] Do you think you can change another person? Can you force them to believe something? Can you alter their core values?

Yes, by coaching, counseling, informing atc. as you mention here:

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

Can you coach? Can you counsel? Can you inform? Yes. But in the end, THEY decide what they will act on. THEY will motivate themselves.

Your coaching/counseling/informing will affect their actions in one way or another. I think everyone wants to improve, if they see clear evidence of a weakness that can be improved, they will probably take some kind of acion. If you provide valuable input you can shift their core values as well.

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

This may be hard to really understand, but it's NOT all about you. The only thing that is about you is your actions. Everything else is someone else's ****.

So wanting to help people is self-centered? I guess you can take a cynical approach like that. Everything we do is for ourselves in one way or another.

We are all affected by the actions of those around us. We should want to improve each other's actions. I definitely don't understand what you are saying here.

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

I don't know about you, but I have plenty of my own **** without having to pick up someone else's.

I can handle my own four letter word. That makes me want to offer help to others. That's what social creatures do. We feel the pain and the happiness of those around us. Yes, helping or guiding others is more difficult than helping ourselves, but that makes it more rewarding as well.

You responded to my post didn't you? You are offering help to me. We can't truly be happy without feeling as though we are helping others in my opinion. Maybe that sounds selfish in a way, but every human action is ultimately selfish.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

Yes, by coaching, counseling, informing atc. as you mention here:

No. I am not changing you by coaching and counseling or informing you. I am offering you an option to change yourself.

By providing you with information you didn't have, I move your knowledge from a place of "didn't know you didn't know" to a place of "now you know you don't know" - a place of opportunity only.

What you do with that information is completely up to you not me. Whether change is realized from this information is for YOU to decide. Not me.

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

Your coaching/counseling/informing will affect their actions in one way or another.

Not necessarily. Only if THEY choose it to affect them. I promise you; I have been the beneficiary of a great deal of coaching and counseling that did not make me change my beliefs or my behavior.

I have Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door fairly frequently.

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

I think everyone wants to improve, if they see clear evidence of a weakness that can be improved, they will probably take some kind of acion. If you provide valuable input you can shift their core values as well.

"Improve" is a highly subjective idea. Who are you to determine what needs to or should be improved in someone's life? How can you know that what may seem to be a negative behavior or "bad" situation is not happening so that this person may learn and/or grow?

If you want to be strong, you lift heavy weights. If you want to be brave, you put yourself in dangerous situations. If you want to be patient, you wait for things. The Creator knows this and teaches us the same way.

Secondly, you give yourself too much credit. People only shift their core values as a result of very determined Intent or through some significant external (usually traumatic) event which invalidates for them their previous value(s).

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

So wanting to help people is self-centered? I guess you can take a cynical approach like that. Everything we do is for ourselves in one way or another.

I'm afraid you may have misunderstood my point. I apologize if my Intent here was unclear.

This is not about being cynical or self-centered. This is about understanding our limitations as fallible, human individiuals and not assigning too much - or too little - importance to our role as brothers and sisters in this experience. It is about being able to offer assistance in as much as we can without it becoming damaging either to ourselves or those we intend to help.

I was having a conversation with a good friend today who is a doctor of Psychology at Texas A&M. He has been a counselor for "at risk" youth for over 20 years. He is publishing a study in one of the APA Journals in the next month or two which dealt with a program he and some of his Grad Students have been conducting.

During this conversation, he - quite cavalierly it seemed to me - talked about those "he couldn't help" and not really giving any more thought to them.

I stopped him and questioned him about that. "It sounds like you're giving up on them," I said.

He told me almost verbatim what I had been telling you in my earlier post and what I mentioned above. I was chagrinned.

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

We are all affected by the actions of those around us. We should want to improve each other's actions. I definitely don't understand what you are saying here.

I don't know if this is sufficiently different from what I've already stated to clarify my point for you, but I'll try: "We are all affected by the actions of those around us" ONLY if we allow ourselves to be. It is OUR choice to be affected or not. Someone may have the intent of affecting us - either positively or negatively - but it is US who CHOOSE to be affected or not be affected.

If I am secure in my beliefs and solid in the understanding of my core values and you tell me something that goes against that, I weigh it and decide - whether consciously or unconsiously - whether or not I agree. If I agree, then it will have the affect of making me re-evaluate my core values and/or beliefs and change may occur as a result of THAT. But the change, if it happens at all, is because of the re-evaluation I did based on the information you gave me.

If I don't agree, then I discard your assertion without changing my values or beliefs - no change, no affect.

Either way, this is MY choice and MY issue, NOT yours.

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

I can handle my own four letter word.

Good. Then you are several steps ahead of the largest portion of humanity. I honor you for that.

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

That makes me want to offer help to others. That's what social creatures do. We feel the pain and the happiness of those around us. Yes, helping or guiding others is more difficult than helping ourselves, but that makes it more rewarding as well.

If that were truly so, we would all be happy, well-adjusted individuals. It is far more difficult to look within than it is to look at someone else.

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

You responded to my post didn't you? You are offering help to me. We can't truly be happy without feeling as though we are helping others in my opinion. Maybe that sounds selfish in a way, but every human action is ultimately selfish.

Perhaps. If my sharing my beliefs and values with you will help you or someone else who takes the time to read this, then I am honored to have done so.

If not, then I humbly permit them to discard my remarks as irrelevant and invite them to go on with their lives with their values and beliefs unchanged.

[brendannz]

I think you need to let things happen and make things happen.

Sometimes when we try to hard, things don't really happen because we're too desperate, but when you put the effort in and then kick back, sometimes it comes our way..

[learnllovelaugh]

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

I don't know if this is sufficiently different from what I've already stated to clarify my point for you, but I'll try: "We are all affected by the actions of those around us" ONLY if we allow ourselves to be. It is OUR choice to be affected or not. Someone may have the intent of affecting us - either positively or negatively - but it is US who CHOOSE to be affected or not be affected.

I have to say I disagree. We are social creatures who are wired to empathize with each other whether we want to or not. If someone screams in fear I will feel fear. If someone is talking to me I will take in their thoughts to some extent.

I'd say a single thought can have a butterfly effect on someone's actions. Our brains are so complicated that there's no telling when that effect might show up through actions. You can say that the person chose whatever actions they made. However, what ignited those actions was some combination of thoughts, many of which came from other people.

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

If I am secure in my beliefs and solid in the understanding of my core values and you tell me something that goes against that, I weigh it and decide - whether consciously or unconsiously - whether or not I agree.

Yes, but by telling you something that goes against your core values I forced you to think (which is an action by definition). As we know thoughts are what lead to physical actions.

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

I promise you; I have been the beneficiary of a great deal of coaching and counseling that did not make me change my beliefs or my behavior.

I have Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door fairly frequently.

You may not have changed your beliefs but I assume that you reevaluted them to some extent. You can't help but compare the two contrasting beliefs once you become aware of them. Apparantly your beliefs still seemed to be true to you so they were confirmed even further. Either way, once you were in that social situation your thoughts (which are actions) were affected without your consent.

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

What you do with that information is completely up to you not me. Whether change is realized from this information is for YOU to decide. Not me.

Yes, but you assumed I would already be motivated to read that post. Knowing that I would make that action, you placed information in that post which I could not help but absorb once I read the post. That forced me to think, which lead to me writing this right now. This sentence would not exist if it weren't for your actions (as well as mine).

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

"Improve" is a highly subjective idea. Who are you to determine what needs to or should be improved in someone's life?

As humans we are given the ability to judge right and wrong, good and bad, and act on those judgements. In your terms, it is a core value of mine to help other people improve; I have to act based on that core value. As a human I have the ability to judge what can to be improved in another person's life. We can never truly decide what is right and wrong, but that won't stop us from making educated guesses.

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

How can you know that what may seem to be a negative behavior or "bad" situation is not happening so that this person may learn and/or grow?

That is exactly what I implied when I wrote this:

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

I guess what I'm thinking about are times when other people's choices are directly affecting the results I want in my own life. So maybe: waiting for someone to decide vs. persuading them.

I don't know how long I should allow someone to continue damaging themselves before I interrupt. But I don't think I should wait until someone has a heart attack before I encourage them to improve their diet. Again, it is more difficult to judge the best way to help someone else compared to helping yourself. How long should I sit back and watch someone do something that I know (through my well-developed human judgement) is harmful?

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

helping or guiding others is more difficult than helping ourselves

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

If that were truly so, we would all be happy, well-adjusted individuals.

I said helping others was harder. I did not say that helping yourself was easy.

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

It is far more difficult to look within than it is to look at someone else.

Perhaps, but my point was that it is far more difficult to motivate someone else than it is to motivate yourself.

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

It is about being able to offer assistance in as much as we can without it becoming damaging either to ourselves or those we intend to help.

Wouldn't you say that is the same concept that I brought up here:

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

How do you balance accepting things just as they are vs. rejecting something and working to change it? Resting vs. Working?

I other words the question is: how do you decide that you have done all you should do for them?

I think the only thing that stops us from helping each other is dissatisfaction with our own level of development. That is why I want advice on how to encourage other people when I see room for improvement. I feel fortunate to hold the belief that I am in a position to help people. Many life experiences and a lot of work have lead me to develop this belief. Finding myself in such a position makes me feel obligated to learn how to help people more effectively. You can call that one of my core values; One which you caused me to think about, which caused me to post it here. We are causing each other to think about these ideas. That will likely affect our physical actions whether we notice it or not.

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by learnllovelaugh

I other words the question is: how do you decide that you have done all you should do for them?

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

And I believe the answer to that is when you authentically look at all your actions and can honestly tell yourself, "There's nothing more I am willing to do. It's up to them now."

Let's face it; there's ALWAYS something more you can do, but when you have exhausted all that you are willing to do, AND that is in alignment with your core values, then it is time to stop. The key to this is being truly honest with yourself. THAT is a tough one.

Now, if we want to talk about how we decide those limits, that goes back to my series of questions you have to ask yourself and being impeccable in your actions.

[learnllovelaugh]

Originally Posted by Mato Kinze

Let's face it; there's ALWAYS something more you can do, but when you have exhausted all that you are willing to do, AND that is in alignment with your core values, then it is time to stop. The key to this is being truly honest with yourself. THAT is a tough one.

Great piece of advice. Thanks for your posts!