Skills for the end of the world

[WarrenG]

Imagine that civilisation as we know it fell apart. For whatever reason, there is no government, no police, and we're basically on our own.

Things may not be as depicted in post-apocalyptic movies. I think people would co-operate more, although there would be some bad guys around.

What are the best skills to have? *

• Carpentry/tool making?
• Martial arts*
• Negotiation / bartering
• Wilderness survival and identifying edible/useful plants
• First aid
• Navigation
• Hunting

What are the best possessions to have?

• Wind up equipment - torches, radio
• Means to make fire, waterproof matches etc
• Solar panels?
• Items to use in barter, tampons, cigarettes, etc
• Long-lasting food of course
• A gun/weapon?
• Tents/tarp/means to make shelter on the go
• Bicycle, spare parts (also bicycle repair skills!)

What would you add? Are any of these not necessary?

[Acting Like Godot]

A big, strong, good dog.

[elucidate]

I feel the same way. I don't think it would be a huge drama at all, and people would be forced to co operate, and be more responsable as well, which is a plus in my book!

More communicating would take place which would naturally create more community. It'd be a real test. I don't think everyone would handle it though. Obviously the majority really like having a government that will make all the decisions for them and they can blame them when things go wrong...so a lot of people would simply not cope...it would be survival of the fittest at it's most raw.

This is a really interesting thread for me, and it's something I have spent a great deal of time when I was in my early twenties thinking about.

All the things you pointed out as being relevant skills to have in the event of this happening I would agree with. Learning to survive and even hunt for food would be imperative, as would martial arts, since we would no longer have anyone "protecting us" (though some people would say they aren't doing the best job now)
Self-reliance would become second nature, and in my oppinion that's a good thing. People are so spoon fed in the western world and like jelly. Most people are wimps!

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Imagine that civilisation as we know it fell apart. For whatever reason, there is no government, no police, and we're basically on our own.

Things may not be as depicted in post-apocalyptic movies. I think people would co-operate more, although there would be some bad guys around.

What are the best skills to have? *

• Carpentry/tool making?
• Martial arts*
• Negotiation / bartering
• Wilderness survival and identifying edible/useful plants
• First aid
• Navigation
• Hunting

What are the best possessions to have?

• Wind up equipment - torches, radio
• Means to make fire, waterproof matches etc
• Solar panels?
• Items to use in barter, tampons, cigarettes, etc
• Long-lasting food of course
• A gun/weapon?
• Tents/tarp/means to make shelter on the go
• Bicycle, spare parts (also bicycle repair skills!)

What would you add? Are any of these not necessary?

[goldberg]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Imagine that civilisation as we know it fell apart. For whatever reason, there is no government, no police, and we're basically on our own.

Things may not be as depicted in post-apocalyptic movies. I think people would co-operate more, although there would be some bad guys around.

What are the best skills to have? *

• Carpentry/tool making?
• Martial arts*
• Negotiation / bartering
• Wilderness survival and identifying edible/useful plants
• First aid
• Navigation
• Hunting

What are the best possessions to have?

• Wind up equipment - torches, radio
• Means to make fire, waterproof matches etc
• Solar panels?
• Items to use in barter, tampons, cigarettes, etc
• Long-lasting food of course
• A gun/weapon?
• Tents/tarp/means to make shelter on the go
• Bicycle, spare parts (also bicycle repair skills!)

What would you add? Are any of these not necessary?

I think you are overestimating human nature, think New Orleans except with no other parts of the country to help them out.

You first would need to survive the first wave of mass death, in the first few weeks.

Best strategy I would say is to get as many guns and ammo + rations as you can get your hands on then take your family and find the remotest place you can think off and hole up there.

[Mounds]

Yep, I agree with Goldberg. It would be every man for himself chaos.

Also, consider what would create an end of the world type scenario. The only thing I could really think of would be a nuclear winter or something similar, as a result of nuclear war, a supervolcano or a big ass meteorite. That would drop the global temperature for a while and blot out the sun. Bye bye plants! Now you've got even bigger problems. No food. All your livestock would kick the bucket, among other animal populations.
My advice? Get used to eating bugs. Even those might become relatively scarce. If there's electricity, you might want to look into growing indoor plants. That's all I got

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Mounds

Yep, I agree with Goldberg. It would be every man for himself chaos.

Also, consider what would create an end of the world type scenario. The only thing I could really think of would be a nuclear winter or something similar, as a result of nuclear war, a supervolcano or a big ass meteorite. That would drop the global temperature for a while and blot out the sun. Bye bye plants! Now you've got even bigger problems. No food. All your livestock would kick the bucket, among other animal populations.
My advice? Get used to eating bugs. Even those might become relatively scarce. If there's electricity, you might want to look into growing indoor plants. That's all I got

Bugs contain a lot of protein

Sure, it would be chaos, for a while...just sorting the wheat from the chafe, and a lot of people would die. That's why all the suggestion he made would be necessary. You would need to learn how to fend for yourself, which is why most people would die...they are so used to getting everything so conveniently. That would all be gone, and they wouldn't know what to do without their creature comforts. If you think people complaining now annoys you, imagine how it would be in this scenario? You'd have to run for the hills just to escape the noise of everyone complaining And yes, guns would be necessary. Crazy people everywhere panic stricken, not to mention all the hardened crims out to play.

[WarrenG]

While at first I think there will be disruption and chaos, I gotta agree with elucidate that we'd get over it pretty quickly. We once lived as roaming tribes where co-operation was vital to survival, not co-operation as in "Pay your taxes and let the system take care of the rest", but the hands-on, getting stuck in, if-you-don't-pull-your-weight-we-know-who-you-are type of co-operation.

We don't really know until it happens, but I think once people get over the fact that the future, their pension fund, career, and vacation plans are gone, they'll adapt and come together.

And yes mounds, it depends what causes it. Nuclear war would suck, because there'd be the fall out to deal with. The most probable thing is global warming, but the question is how big nations act towards each other when things start to get worse.

Anyway, for the purpose of this discussion, let's say that there is no nuclear fallout, there is inhabitable land, buildings are still intact, but there's no government. You just have to fend for yourself. Imagine how free you'd feel! But anyway, the big dog is a good idea- especially if trained to use its nose for you.

We don't have guns here in the UK. Perhaps sword training, or archery would have to do.

I asked a friend and he had some more ideas:

• For maintenance of sanity you need, stress coping mechanisms
• Hobbies help but good thing in that world is you can work on anything you want, i would personally start with whittling.
• Basic knowledge of mechanics, electrics
• Languages of neighbouring countries.

Crucial items:

• compass
• good knife
• knife sharpener
• good boots
• duct tape
• several spare pairs of glasses.

As for a hobby, I think I would pick acoustic guitar. It's big and cumbersome, but light. And could be a useful thing to keep spirits up (although not my playing, perhaps!).

Any more ideas for skills and crucial items?

[James81]

I think you'd have a period of devolution (if that is even a word ) followed by a long period of people re-figuring things out, learning to cooperate again, etc.

After all, I imagine that our current society came from a place of complete chaos and anarchy, and I imagine that once the dust settled and the last bits and remnants of survivors moved on, that society would begin anew and evolve right back to where we are now.

(I kind of suspect that this type of thing has happened before, actually. Perhaps more than once.)

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by James81

evolve right back to where we are now.

Hopefully we'd learn from our mistakes and evolve to somewhere else!

[James81]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Hopefully we'd learn from our mistakes and evolve to somewhere else!

We humans tend to like to repeat the same mistakes over and over again. Just look at our own lives as individuals.

[LostMyMap]

I've actually thought about this quite a bit. Partially because I've seen so many Hollywood productions of post-apocalyptic movies ( Road Warrior fan). Also, along the vein of writing my own story one day. Is that what you are thinking of doing?

My most essential item would be a really good knife. The Rambo type, big, with the saw edge on the back. The next most important item would be means to start a fire. Flint, or those manufactured flint sticks that Bear Grylls uses sometimes. Also, probably a magnifying glass. Next, first aid kit. Duct tape and lots of rope/para cord would be really useful.

And I like ALG's suggestion of a good dog. Or a few.

[elucidate]

Water...it's the most essential substance. We can survive without food for a few days but not without water.

Make shift weapons can be made out of pretty much anything you can find, if you have the cunning to recognize it.

I love this thread. Does that make me weird-er?

I have a book called "How to survive anything, anywhere" and the very first page talks about what you were saying WarrenG about psychological survival. What would people do without their Xboxes and such. It means going back to basics, and yeah, whittling or making a guitar etc. Keeping busy is important as the person could easily collapse from the stress of it all if left too long with their own thoughts.

[WarrenG]

Good point LMM! Flint, and a first aid kit of course are essential. No it's not for a story it's...just in case! Actually, I really like the idea of being able to be self-sufficient, even if I don't ever need to apply the skills. It's an essential aspect of personal development in my humble opinion - you can have great social skills, bust past limiting beliefs and so on, but if your survival depends on "the system" (tm) you could argue that you're just getting good at playing a particular game.

Also, fishing hook/rod.

What about skills, any more thoughts in that department?

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Water...it's the most essential substance. We can survive without food for a few days but not without water.

There's one test I would love to do - shut off water for a few days. There's an easier version of this test, where you're allowed to bring water in from outside (neighbours, or bottled), but it's supposed to make you hyper-aware of how much you use and how much you waste.

I love this thread. Does that make me weird-er?

Me too! However, I like to think that it's weird not to love this thread. Something about the whole concept feels right.

I have a book called "How to survive anything, anywhere" and the very first page talks about what you were saying WarrenG about psychological survival. What would people do without their Xboxes and such. It means going back to basics, and yeah, whittling or making a guitar etc. Keeping busy is important as the person could easily collapse from the stress of it all if left too long with their own thoughts.

I'll see if I can find that somewhere. I don't think I'm going to be buying as much online anymore, so I don't get books instantly now (but that's a whole other story). Sounds really good though! You might also like a book called Emergency by Neil Strauss, and The Moneyless Man by Mark Boyle (which I'm halfway through). Both are true stories about dudes who wanted to be more self reliant.

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Good point LMM! Flint, and a first aid kit of course are essential. No it's not for a story it's...just in case! Actually, I really like the idea of being able to be self-sufficient, even if I don't ever need to apply the skills. It's an essential aspect of personal development in my humble opinion - you can have great social skills, bust past limiting beliefs and so on, but if your survival depends on "the system" (tm) you could argue that you're just getting good at playing a particular game.

Also, fishing hook/rod.

What about skills, any more thoughts in that department?

Skills, I guess the term wilderness survival could encompass quite a bit of that. Being able to use those tools to make shelter, fire, get food, or make tools, like fishing poles to get food with. How to set a snare, field dress anything you catch, that sort of stuff. What bugs and plants are edible, which ones will make you sick. What plants have healing properties (i.e. aloe).

One of your biggest risks beyond starvation is injury or sickness, so medical skills would be essential.

How about this, you mentioned negotiating/bartering, I can add leadership and organizational skills.

Are you in the US? The Sierra club has a Wilderness Basics course. I haven't taken it yet, but I know an instructor.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

There's one test I would love to do - shut off water for a few days. There's an easier version of this test, where you're allowed to bring water in from outside (neighbours, or bottled), but it's supposed to make you hyper-aware of how much you use and how much you waste.

Sounds interesting!

I'll see if I can find that somewhere. I don't think I'm going to be buying as much online anymore, so I don't get books instantly now (but that's a whole other story). Sounds really good though! You might also like a book called Emergency by Neil Strauss, and The Moneyless Man by Mark Boyle (which I'm halfway through). Both are true stories about dudes who wanted to be more self reliant.

It's weird, the book seems to have no author, it's just edited by Chris McNab? I suppose it isn't really a novel, it's a practical manual, so that's probably why. The editor has compiled a bunch of tips and traps from SAS manuals probably. I'm fascinated by the SAS and stories of the Spartans. I have a hunter mate who is friends with some SAS dudes, and I love hearing their stories through him.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Personally I think it's important to learn how to cultivate your own food, too. And various ways to prepare said food, either foraged or cultivate, because some parts of plants are surprisingly edible (sweet potato leaves for instance) and some are extremely not (tomato leaves and vines). Knowing how to butcher various animals and use all the parts of the animal. And also food preservation - canning, pickling, drying, smoking.

Sewing, knitting, spinning wool (or using any kind of fibrous material to make thread or rope), weaving (basket and cloth).

According to my Dad if you cook grubs over the fire they puff up and taste kind of like popcorn...He had this book published in the 60s called "back to basics". I remember reading it, instructions on how to chop and cord wood...lol.

[elucidate]

I agree with this, though, in the event of something like what WarrenG is proposing, growing your own food would require fertile soil and time, and if you don't have either of those where you are it's gonna be tough.


The book I have talks about all the other stuff you mention as well, killing, skinning and gutting animals and birds, plucking their feathers etc. and smoking and curing food to preserve it longer. I know a book isn't as good as a person with real experience, but it still helps...and I love reading it.

I did almost try a widdgety grub that my partner at the time found in our back yard. He roasted it up in the pan, but it turned out to be rhinoceros beetle larvae which is inedible. I was really looking forward to trying it too.

Lovely new Av btw Laks.

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

Personally I think it's important to learn how to cultivate your own food, too. And various ways to prepare said food, either foraged or cultivate, because some parts of plants are surprisingly edible (sweet potato leaves for instance) and some are extremely not (tomato leaves and vines). Knowing how to butcher various animals and use all the parts of the animal. And also food preservation - canning, pickling, drying, smoking.

Sewing, knitting, spinning wool (or using any kind of fibrous material to make thread or rope), weaving (basket and cloth).

According to my Dad if you cook grubs over the fire they puff up and taste kind of like popcorn...He had this book published in the 60s called "back to basics". I remember reading it, instructions on how to chop and cord wood...lol.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I agree with this, though, in the event of something like what WarrenG is proposing, growing your own food would require fertile soil and time, and if you don't have either of those where you are it's gonna be tough.

Microgreens require soilless potting mix! They just survive off of the nutrients in the seed. Then you eat the sprouts. Highly nutritious and only takes a few weeks. So there, underwear. And you can grind the sprouted greens up to make bread that has complete protein (if you include a variety of sprouted grains including mung bean).

The book I have talks about all the other stuff you mention as well, killing, skinning and gutting animals and birds, plucking their feathers etc. and smoking and curing food to preserve it longer. I know a book isn't as good as a person with real experience, but it still helps...and I love reading it.

Once, my sister took me with her to her boyfriend's house when I was in high school (I was supposed to prevent their sexual intercourse, but I didn't really make an effort.) I sat in the living room with her future father in law watching a video on how to skin an armadillo.

Apparently you're supposed to trap them and feed them clean food for a few days. They are the only other mammal that contracts leprosy, and it can jump the species barrier! After you slit the throat you nail it up on a tree or other vertical surface by the tail and drain the blood and skin it. Good times.

I did almost try a widdgety grub that my partner at the time found in our back yard. He roasted it up in the pan, but it turned out to be rhinoceros beetle larvae which is inedible. I was really looking forward to trying it too.

Lovely new Av btw Laks.

Aw thanks! (Re: av)

I'm scared to eat bugs but in my mother's country they eat cobra hearts that are still beating from an eviscerated cobra. And they drink the hot blood. They also eat duck eggs with almost fully developed embryos in them. Balut.

I've been forced to eat some hideous things in my life. Culturally appropriate, though!!

[LostMyMap]

I had a balut in the Philipines. Thought that was their thing. It required quite a bit of pre-lubricating with their cheap alcohol to prepare. As I was eating it, all the locals were of course laughing, and it occurred to me that this whole thing might be a big joke they perpetrate on us silly Americans.

I've heard that all cultures outside of western Europe, and countries they founded (i.e. US) eat bugs.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi

Microgreens require soilless potting mix! They just survive off of the nutrients in the seed. Then you eat the sprouts. Highly nutritious and only takes a few weeks. So there, underwear. And you can grind the sprouted greens up to make bread that has complete protein (if you include a variety of sprouted grains including mung bean).

Nice! I know that alfalfa and other lentils and beans can easily be sprouted in a jar in a couple of days,a nd they are considered super food with concentrated doses of vitamins. Between the two of us I'm sure we'd be living high if we had to rough it

Once, my sister took me with her to her boyfriend's house when I was in high school (I was supposed to prevent their sexual intercourse, but I didn't really make an effort.) I sat in the living room with her future father in law watching a video on how to skin an armadillo.

Apparently you're supposed to trap them and feed them clean food for a few days. They are the only other mammal that contracts leprosy, and it can jump the species barrier! After you slit the throat you nail it up on a tree or other vertical surface by the tail and drain the blood and skin it. Good times.

Wow, I've never thought about armidillos as food. They aren't your standard hunt are they? I'd imagine it would be tough removing their shell though...maybe not?

I'm scared to eat bugs but in my mother's country they eat cobra hearts that are still beating from an eviscerated cobra. And they drink the hot blood. They also eat duck eggs with almost fully developed embryos in them. Balut.

I've been forced to eat some hideous things in my life. Culturally appropriate, though!!

Ok...that's just disturbing! You were forced to eat this? Aye caramba

Thanks though. Now I'll know if ever some strange asian lady offers me an egg and says "Eat, Balut"...I'll be runnin' for the hills. I'm sure it has plenty of protein and all that, but...well, it would take an end of the world situation for me to EVER consider eating that!

[aelle]

If humanity ever goes through an apocalyptical scenario, what will matter most at first will be people skills. It will be chaos and every man for itself, but we would have a really hard time surviving each on our own. There will probably be bouts of guerilla really fast, to hoard ressources. So the people who know how to establish themselves as leaders, gain others' trust, negociate, cajole and indimitade would probably have the best initial chances of survival, both in terms of gathering resources and abilities around them, and in terms of personal protection.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by aelle

If humanity ever goes through an apocalyptical scenario, what will matter most at first will be people skills. It will be chaos and every man for itself, but we would have a really hard time surviving each on our own. There will probably be bouts of guerilla really fast, to hoard ressources. So the people who know how to establish themselves as leaders, gain others' trust, negociate, cajole and indimitade would probably have the best initial chances of survival, both in terms of gathering resources and abilities around them, and in terms of personal protection.

Agreed. It would really be a time where individuals would have to draw on their own inner resources like never before, and be forced to communicate more effectively. Adrenalin would be pumping and I have a sneaky suspicion that amidst all the death there'd be people feeling more alive than they have ever felt before.

[st33med]

Zombie skills. Definitely need zombie skills. And shotgun skills. And where the nearest grocery store is... Did I mention zombie skills?

[goldberg]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

While at first I think there will be disruption and chaos, I gotta agree with elucidate that we'd get over it pretty quickly. We once lived as roaming tribes where co-operation was vital to survival, not co-operation as in "Pay your taxes and let the system take care of the rest", but the hands-on, getting stuck in, if-you-don't-pull-your-weight-we-know-who-you-are type of co-operation.

We don't really know until it happens, but I think once people get over the fact that the future, their pension fund, career, and vacation plans are gone, they'll adapt and come together.

And yes mounds, it depends what causes it. Nuclear war would suck, because there'd be the fall out to deal with. The most probable thing is global warming, but the question is how big nations act towards each other when things start to get worse.

Anyway, for the purpose of this discussion, let's say that there is no nuclear fallout, there is inhabitable land, buildings are still intact, but there's no government. You just have to fend for yourself. Imagine how free you'd feel! But anyway, the big dog is a good idea- especially if trained to use its nose for you.

We don't have guns here in the UK. Perhaps sword training, or archery would have to do.

I asked a friend and he had some more ideas:

• For maintenance of sanity you need, stress coping mechanisms
• Hobbies help but good thing in that world is you can work on anything you want, i would personally start with whittling.
• Basic knowledge of mechanics, electrics
• Languages of neighbouring countries.

Crucial items:

• compass
• good knife
• knife sharpener
• good boots
• duct tape
• several spare pairs of glasses.

As for a hobby, I think I would pick acoustic guitar. It's big and cumbersome, but light. And could be a useful thing to keep spirits up (although not my playing, perhaps!).

Any more ideas for skills and crucial items?

Honestly you are not taking the scenario very seriously I would predict the probability of you surviving the first few weeks to be about 1% with your current attitude. In the scenario I would expect 90-99% of humanity to be wiped out.

In my scenario of just finding somewhere to hide, the most important thing is not to be seen, as once you are seen even with guns it is probably game over. Also you should not be living in a city or densely populated area as this pretty much means death.

Forget the glasses, get laser eye surgery now. In the post apocalyptic world you are dead meat if you lose or break your glasses, best not to take that risk.

You don't need a compass you can use the sun for this. Also I would have a map of the area you intend to have as your first base.

You won't need stress coping mechanisms, you will be too busy trying to survive.

Assuming an asteroid hit which is wiping out plants and animals, then I would tend to try and head towards a good source of fish after the first few weeks die out has occurred.

[Michael Chui]

Amazon.com: Dies the Fire: A Novel of the Change (7804514604173): S. M. Stirling: Books

*innocently* What?

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by goldberg

Honestly you are not taking the scenario very seriously I would predict the probability of you surviving the first few weeks to be about 1% with your current attitude. In the scenario I would expect 90-99% of humanity to be wiped out.

In my scenario of just finding somewhere to hide, the most important thing is not to be seen, as once you are seen even with guns it is probably game over. Also you should not be living in a city or densely populated area as this pretty much means death.

Logical conflict?

Originally Posted by goldberg

You don't need a compass you can use the sun for this.

Cloudy today. Darn.... No sun, no North Star tonight.

Originally Posted by goldberg

You won't need stress coping mechanisms, you will be too busy trying to survive.

Um, yeah, right, trying to survive wouldn't be stressful?

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

Logical conflict?



Cloudy today. Darn.... No sun, no North Star tonight.



Um, yeah, right, trying to survive wouldn't be stressful?

I agree. WTF?

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

Logical conflict?

No. Densely populated areas are the most susceptible to mass psychological meltdown in the wake of an apocalypse. It really depends on what goes away, but in most scenarios, you lose the transport industry, which means mass starvation, which hits people density the hardest since it's impossible for the land to support the population in a local area. You'd have people either starving to death or being eaten by other people until a localized infrastructure is established, and that infrastructure will be very hard-pressed to match the same level of output anyways.

The book I linked to is excellent. It's fiction and premises the apocalypse on some magic hand-waving, but it lays out four major styles of survival in the Pacific Northwest.

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

No. Densely populated areas are the most susceptible to mass psychological meltdown in the wake of an apocalypse. It really depends on what goes away, but in most scenarios, you lose the transport industry, which means mass starvation, which hits people density the hardest since it's impossible for the land to support the population in a local area. You'd have people either starving to death or being eaten by other people until a localized infrastructure is established, and that infrastructure will be very hard-pressed to match the same level of output anyways.

The book I linked to is excellent. It's fiction and premises the apocalypse on some magic hand-waving, but it lays out four major styles of survival in the Pacific Northwest.

OK I can see that. I was thinking after 99 % of people are wiped out, there wouldn't be much density anywhere. But at the beginning, yeah.

Still want my compass though