Progress is dead

[Daedalus]

Opinions. Even if you feel that the internet is cluttered and full of repetition that's part of the nature of the web. People are free to post their perspective of the topic they want b.s. or not. But it would be ideal if everyone were more genuine in what they post in the web instead of selling themselves as the best (something) that exist in the World (maybe they believe it).

I image you are bored of the same patterns and repetitiveness because you have read a lot of it but for others the same information might be valuable and important.
And yeah, I think the solution is to become better at gathering information, filtering b.s. and knowing when to stop searching.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Mounds

No. Were gonna have to think outside the bun on this one. The answer is not in the realm of PD.

This is Mounds, signing off.

Bye! I'm confident you'll be back when you've got more opinions to share on the internets.

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by Angela

Bye! I'm confident you'll be back when you've got more opinions to share on the internets.

Sheesh, I wish I could just delete this thread and start over.
I've said it a few times now that what I'm referring to is information overload. That has become "I hate everyone's opinions but my own". That will learn me to create a thread off the cuff. No going back now.

Daedalus gets it. I actually ended up thinking that the repetition could be for the next geneartion of readers, so to speak. So that part makes sense.

[st33med]

Originally Posted by Mounds

Sheesh, I wish I could just delete this thread and start over.
I've said it a few times now that what I'm referring to is information overload. That has become "I hate everyone's opinions but my own". That will learn me to create a thread off the cuff. No going back now.

We never said that you were hating everyone's opinions but your own. Maybe you came up with that yourself?

And you still responded to Angela after saying goodbye to this thread and inserting more opinion!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Mounds

I've said it a few times now that what I'm referring to is information overload. That has become "I hate everyone's opinions but my own".

I don't see anyone saying that.

[WarrenG]

Mounds - dude, sorry for the hijack. I'm enjoying this discussion with Angela though, perhaps someone with the power could split our tangent off to a new thread?

Originally Posted by Angela

Actually, I don't have to.

OK, OK. You don't have to, technically. No one is going to force you. What I'm saying is, you should. That might be a dirty word in some schools of thought, but to me this is a no brainer - of course, as people living together, we should be aware of the potential consequences of our actions on other people, and behave accordingly. That's my general point, and I think it applies to PD blogs. That's it, really.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, or we'll be going round in circles all day!

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Opinions. Even if you feel that the internet is cluttered and full of repetition that's part of the nature of the web. People are free to post their perspective of the topic they want b.s. or not. But it would be ideal if everyone were more genuine in what they post in the web instead of selling themselves as the best (something) that exist in the World (maybe they believe it).

Spot on.

I image you are bored of the same patterns and repetitiveness because you have read a lot of it but for others the same information might be valuable and important.

Well that's true, good point. At the same time though, people might find it useless or harmful...

And yeah, I think the solution is to become better at gathering information, filtering b.s. and knowing when to stop searching.

Good idea for a blog!

[Mounds]

So I had a good sleep and now I'm thinking this might be a two-part issue:

1. My own filtration system - maybe I should decide when something "expires". I thought about the financial blog I had mentioned and repeating the information does make a good bit of sense. People will always have problems at different times and therefore, it's good to have that information pop up regularly. If you've been there, done that a thousand times over... it's pretty boring and in fact, a distraction. I'm going to set a two-week goal within the next few days to see if I can change my filtration system.

2. No endgame - this is tough to explain but with many of these concepts, there seems to be no clear end. It's even difficult to set an over-arching goal. Without it, I fear one could be lost in this world forever, addicted to personal development. I don't think people should study PD until the day they die. At some point, you have to enjoy your investments.


I'm gonna go ahead and explore those two things out loud. I believe these two things are contributing to my own information overload and probably for a lot of other people as well. First of all, I don't have the proper filters and second, I don't even know the destination. So I try to process everything and become frustrated. After that, I'm not even sure what's relevant anymore. Solving this looks like a big win for time

-Tim

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

I have never subscribed to a blog and read it regularly. I always just do searches for topics that come up and read several different sources and use my own discernment to apply any newly absorbed information to the questionable task/situation.

So I don't notice this information overload that seems to be a source of discomfort for you, Mounds. It simply does not exist in my realm of existence.

Perhaps it was just my life/family of origin that taught me that personal space is something that happens in your mind as well as in your physical interactions.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Mounds

Worse, the internet allows us to share those opinions with the world and it's become very difficult to distinguish fact from fiction.

Not for me. In fact, with so many sources of information, I've been able to more easily find theories and research that are based upon facts, rather than old folklores or "common sense" (which is often false).

For example, I'm currently reading this book: Amazon.com: Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts (9780156033909): Carol Tavris, Elliot Aronson: Books

It's backed up by hundreds of studies and data. I may have never heard of this book or thought of reading it, if not for the Internet.

A theory that may have taken many lifetimes to establish and build up evidence for can be discarded in an instant for a theory that has no evidence and might have been cooked up on the fly!

Anyone who accepts a theory with no evidence is accepting it on faith. Someone who is willing to demand evidence will disregard theories which do not have it.

I do agree that the Internet has a lot of ♥♥♥♥♥ floating around in it, but it's pretty easy to ignore and just pay attention to the good stuff. I'm pretty sure my local library has a lot of crap too. There's no difference, except I can access the Internet much quicker.

Before the Internet, some people used to get their information overload from newspapers and magazines. Cosmo or Playboy or [insert popular magazine here] is full of 99% of stuff that no one really *needs* to read or know about. But we read it for whatever reasons... sometimes just mild entertainment.

So... what is my point. My point is that information overload has always been available to us, and even though it is more so nowdays because of the Internet, we still need to do what we've always needed to do: focus on the important stuff. Getting rid of blogs won't end information overload. We have to do it for ourselves, by being so busy achieving our goals that we don't have time to read a stupid blog or mindless magazine (unless we want to ). Only you can prevent forest fires.

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by Mounds

So I had a good sleep and now I'm thinking this might be a two-part issue:

1. My own filtration system - maybe I should decide when something "expires". I thought about the financial blog I had mentioned and repeating the information does make a good bit of sense. People will always have problems at different times and therefore, it's good to have that information pop up regularly. If you've been there, done that a thousand times over... it's pretty boring and in fact, a distraction. I'm going to set a two-week goal within the next few days to see if I can change my filtration system.

Also, you have similar problems again in the future. I bet you could go back over posts you wrote a long time back, that you don't even remember writing, and think "Damn, that's good advice!" I know I have, on a weight-lifting forum I used to post on.

So maybe it's good to have a way of remembering lessons learned, or maybe learning too much too quickly makes it hard to synthesise it all. Perhaps identifying broader themes and ideas from what you've read, and focusing on them individually and deeply as opposed to seeing PD as multi-dimensional, where you have to always be learning about different things. Having a framework that you relate things to might be less mentally taxing than learning/remembering a hundred different things, while helping you learn more about the broader idea you're focusing on at the same time.

edit: just read that back and it's pretty abstract... hope it makes sense

2. No endgame - this is tough to explain but with many of these concepts, there seems to be no clear end. It's even difficult to set an over-arching goal. Without it, I fear one could be lost in this world forever, addicted to personal development. I don't think people should study PD until the day they die. At some point, you have to enjoy your investments.

Or maybe cycle between periods of putting dedicated effort into PD, with periods of 'coasting', where you can see how what you've learned affects your life overall and get the bigger picture, see the forest and not just the trees and all that.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, or we'll be going round in circles all day!

With that I agree! Thanks for the discussion.

[Mounds]

@Warren - bang on once again.

@Daffy - great book. I've been pushing that one on people forever

@LL - thank you for the input!

I really like this:

Also, you have similar problems again in the future. I bet you could go back over posts you wrote a long time back, that you don't even remember writing, and think "Damn, that's good advice!" I know I have, on a weight-lifting forum I used to post on.

So maybe it's good to have a way of remembering lessons learned, or maybe learning too much too quickly makes it hard to synthesise it all. Perhaps identifying broader themes and ideas from what you've read, and focusing on them individually and deeply as opposed to seeing PD as multi-dimensional, where you have to always be learning about different things. Having a framework that you relate things to might be less mentally taxing than learning/remembering a hundred different things, while helping you learn more about the broader idea you're focusing on at the same time.

What I've done in the past is summarized information and recorded it into an audio file. That works like a beauty.
The broader themes idea is a good one as well. The way I see PD right now is a million little pieces that contradict each other. Broad concepts make it a lot easier to handle.
I've also considered going back to some old PD books, just to see how it affects me now.
Anyhow, I'm onto something. I'll keep working at it.

-Tim

[James81]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

I think that's too simplistic. What if staying with a particular world view for a particular length of time is more beneficial than switching immediately?

What if it's not?

This question kinda reminds me of the people who buy lottery tickets. What if I stop buying them and when I do, the numbers I pick actually come through?

One of the best ways I know of to hit rock bottom, is to be digging a hole and all the while thinking "I'm about to uncover something HUGE! I can't stop now!" All the while you are sinking, but you are doing so so slowly that you don't notice....until it becomes a chore to climb out of that hole.

Originally Posted by WarrenG

You're also assuming that any alternative world view will give better results than the present one, when it might make things worse. Also, you probably dismiss and resist old world views that used to be disempowering for you, but that's for good reason!

These assumptions are yours.

And they look like great reasons for staying right where you are and only growing to fill the box that your current worldview allows. That's the things about sticking with just *one* view on things and not allowing yourself to be open to other views. Just *one* view, the one that you are so sure of, is a box. And you can grow and expand until you fill that box. If you want to break out of that box, though, you're going to have to shift your way of thinking.

[Daffy Duck]

It would require some work, but I've always liked the idea of writing your own personal PD book that you can refer to. I think I heard of this technique from Jack Canfield. He writes notes to himself, about his career, his marriage, his children, etc. He writes down what works and what doesn't work. Then he can refer to it, in the future, and revise it.

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

It would require some work, but I've always liked the idea of writing your own personal PD book that you can refer to. I think I heard of this technique from Jack Canfield. He writes notes to himself, about his career, his marriage, his children, etc. He writes down what works and what doesn't work. Then he can refer to it, in the future, and revise it.

Holy ♥♥♥♥, this could be the greatest idea I've ever heard.

[Acting Like Godot]

What? You mean you guys don't already consult your Higher Self on a regular basis?

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by James81

What if it's not?

This question kinda reminds me of the people who buy lottery tickets. What if I stop buying them and when I do, the numbers I pick actually come through?

One of the best ways I know of to hit rock bottom, is to be digging a hole and all the while thinking "I'm about to uncover something HUGE! I can't stop now!" All the while you are sinking, but you are doing so so slowly that you don't notice....until it becomes a chore to climb out of that hole.

Jumping ship every time the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence is bad news too.

And they look like great reasons for staying right where you are and only growing to fill the box that your current worldview allows. That's the things about sticking with just *one* view on things and not allowing yourself to be open to other views. Just *one* view, the one that you are so sure of, is a box. And you can grow and expand until you fill that box. If you want to break out of that box, though, you're going to have to shift your way of thinking.

I'm not open to the views of religion and for good reason. As a human being, I can not direct my attention in every single direction. I can't say God created the Earth 6000 years ago and the Earth is 4.5 billion years old. Right there, I have to make a decision about which view I'm going to adopt.
It serves me well to choose some absolute truths and build upon them. After all, I'm not here forever and all my beliefs will die with me. So I might as well believe in something, as oppose to believing in everything and hashing out incongruities *boggle *. Does that make any sense? lol

-Tim

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

What? You mean you guys don't already consult your Higher Self on a regular basis?

Occasionally I climb up on the roof of my house and talk down to myself.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

It would require some work, but I've always liked the idea of writing your own personal PD book that you can refer to. I think I heard of this technique from Jack Canfield. He writes notes to himself, about his career, his marriage, his children, etc. He writes down what works and what doesn't work. Then he can refer to it, in the future, and revise it.

I hear you. If only there was a way to do this, and put it online to share with others who might like to enjoy it and might glean something from it rather than hiding it away so that nobody will ever be gauranteed to get anything out of it.

I envision...something...a website maybe? And it works like you write down what works for you and you can store publicy for others to access...or for you to access from anywhere.

If only...maybe someday. *dreamy sigh*

[spacecadetglow]

Oh look, another thread where someone just wants to get something off their chest and a whole group of people comes in to point out inconsistencies, incongruities, and grill the dude to add to his confusion.

Maybe it's not a personal problem here, guys. Maybe Mounds just wanted to express himself. Just sayin'.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Mounds

Jumping ship every time the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence is bad news too.

That's an extreme, though.

What I'm talking about is more like calibration. Your current view of the world isn't getting yout he results you desire, so there's either something you can let go of (resistance of some sort) or something that you can take on that might make a difference.

To me, that's what PD has been all about. A consistent calibration of beliefs that work, and learning to let go of those that don't work.

Originally Posted by Mounds

I'm not open to the views of religion and for good reason. As a human being, I can not direct my attention in every single direction. I can't say God created the Earth 6000 years ago and the Earth is 4.5 billion years old. Right there, I have to make a decision about which view I'm going to adopt.
It serves me well to choose some absolute truths and build upon them. After all, I'm not here forever and all my beliefs will die with me. So I might as well believe in something, as oppose to believing in everything and hashing out incongruities *boggle *. Does that make any sense? lol

-Tim

Baby steps, brotha. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

Oh look, another thread where someone just wants to get something off their chest and a whole group of people comes in to point out inconsistencies, incongruities, and grill the dude to add to his confusion.

Maybe it's not a personal problem here, guys. Maybe Mounds just wanted to express himself. Just sayin'.

This thought did cross my mind but luckily I'm hard-headed enough not to care what anyone says unless it contributes directly to a solution for my conundrum. I enjoy deflecting the grilling with my sense of humor. Eventually I hope I can - wait for it - filter it out.

To play psychologist for a second, I think what we are seeing is view envy. I don't know what else to say guys. If the size of my view is making you uncomfortable, stop looking at it.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Mounds

To play psychologist for a second, I think what we are seeing is view envy. I don't know what else to say guys. If the size of my view is making you uncomfortable, stop looking at it.

I'm one of those people who *knows* that everything I post is mainly for myself. So, even if it looks like I'm criticizing you or your views, I know that I'm mostly talking to myself.

It's the whole reason I do this. The whole reason I am here is to sort this **** in my own head. And I do that through threads like this. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. My posts in this thread are my attempts at sorting the subject matter you've raised in my own ways, for my own growth.

Doing so publicly, though, has the added bonus that others who read it can glean something from it. I consider that a wonderful bonus if they do.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Mounds

This thought did cross my mind but luckily I'm hard-headed enough not to care what anyone says unless it contributes directly to a solution for my conundrum. I enjoy deflecting the grilling with my sense of humor. Eventually I hope I can - wait for it - filter it out.

To play psychologist for a second, I think what we are seeing is view envy. I don't know what else to say guys. If the size of my view is making you uncomfortable, stop looking at it.

Do you suppose that in a forum whose stated purpose is "to help each other learn and grow" that inconsistencies and incongruencies would not or should not be challenged?

When you "just express yourself" on a personal development forum, others should help you learn and grow not by challenging you, but by restricting their responses to agreement?

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by James81

If only there was a way to do this, and put it online

No, you smartass!!

That ruins the whole point (well, not really, but sorta kinda). It's supposed to be very personalized, things that work specifically for your life. For YOUR wife, for YOUR children, for YOUR job.

The general stuff is what we get from PD material. The specific details we need to figure out on our own. I can tell you in general how to be an effective person, but only James can say how to be a really effective James.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

Oh look, another thread where someone just wants to get something off their chest and a whole group of people comes in to point out inconsistencies, incongruities, and grill the dude to add to his confusion.

Maybe it's not a personal problem here, guys. Maybe Mounds just wanted to express himself. Just sayin'.

I've come to believe that everyone posts only to various facets of themselves. So when threads balloon and get "off topic" magical things can happen, we can be presented with aspects of ourselves or thought formations that we weren't aware of - all from reading these various posts.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

That ruins the whole point (well, not really, but sorta kinda). It's supposed to be very personalized, things that work specifically for your life. For YOUR wife, for YOUR children, for YOUR job.

The general stuff is what we get from PD material. The specific details we need to figure out on our own. I can tell you in general how to be an effective person, but only James can say how to be a really effective James.

I dunno, but when I was blogging regularly, I wrote the blogs for myself mostly. I used "I" a lot and not "you." I've always viewed personal development as a sharing process, rather than a 'teaching and learning' process.

Having a blog, that is public, that is geared towards ourselves, seems like a win-win thing to me. You get to sort your thoughts, track your own progress, and do all of that stuff you mentioned...and, on the flip side, others get to glean from it if they so desire.

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by Angela

Do you suppose that in a forum whose stated purpose is "to help each other learn and grow" that inconsistencies and incongruencies would not or should not be challenged?

I don't mind it being pointed out if it's in the context of the thread. I've seen people grilled before on their choice of vocabulary while they're talking about a personal issue. I think that's a joke. Such incidents are not rare occurrences.

When you "just express yourself" on a personal development forum, others should help you learn and grow not by challenging you, but by restricting their responses to agreement?

Once again, I don't mind. It has to make sense though. Even in this thread, I stated what I was looking for and spent two pages trying to convince people of what I was trying to say. Not a rare occurrence either. It's a wires crossed issue and I'm not sure there's anything we can do about it.
OTH, I've gotten some real good ideas from this thread. A couple people appear to have caught on exactly to what I had in mind and offered some awesome ideas that I'm going to run with. It's not all bad.

-Tim

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Mounds

Once again, I don't mind. It has to make sense though. Even in this thread, I stated what I was looking for and spent two pages trying to convince people of what I was trying to say. Not a rare occurrence either. It's a wires crossed issue and I'm not sure there's anything we can do about it.

That's the thing, Tim. It often only makes sense to you if it's what you're looking for.