Asking for Help

[Lifeisamazing]

Just read something that inspired me to create this thread.

Look, you wouldn't expect a child to learn to walk, talk or feed it self from birth without help would you? It would make no sense.

Yet, when we become adults it's like a switch flips in our brains and we forget that it's not only ok to ask for help, but wise to do so too.

So we struggle by ourselves and try to figure out what to do when all along we could ask for help from someone and solve the problem much, much faster, much easier and with far less trouble.

My question is Isn't it much more enjoyable to come up with your own solution than to make it really simple by asking someone else?

[Cochonette]

First of all, I love the quote. But I think we need to stop with the false dichotomy, that just because you take care of yourself no one else can, too. Staying grounded in your being and being the conscious creator of your own destiny doesn't mean you can't ask for help in many instances. Otherwise, why are you here asking us this question? Why do you care what anyone else thinks? The important thing is you know where your own center of being is, so you're not off-balance, putting too much weight on someone else. Ideally, bring others to your center when you are asking for help, just as you would in a martial art like Aikido. The notion that any of us here today are here alone is nonsense. Alone, we wouldn't have computers, clothes, electricity, modern housing, books, or even language. But at the same time, living passively and just watching life happen to you isn't going to create happiness.

"Peace is more than the absence of war; peace must be waged! peace must be won!"
A good life, loving relationships, don't just happen to you. They must be waged; they must be won. But waging them yourself doesn't mean waging them alone. Since when did doing work imply being alone? We're social beings. We communicate so we can help each other.

We're really addressing two different issues here - autonomy/balance/centeredness and mutuality/interconnectedness/being social. They're not mutually exclusive.

[Lifeisamazing]

Absolutely true. I'm actually thinking about the more extreme way - asking for help all the time. Obviously I didn't express it here, even though I meant it.

We can achieve far greater things in a good team than alone, however, when you face a problem, when is the point when you should ask for someone to assist you? I mean, every problem you ever face... you have the capability of coming up with a solution to that.

Also, when we look for advice, do you ever really want solutions, or do you want ideas/hints? Wouldn't it be better to spend your time for developing your own brain by thinking about various answers rather than to get it handed to you on a plate? At the same time, it seems silly to cogitate on problems that have already been solved by many people.

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by Lifeisamazing

Absolutely true. I'm actually thinking about the more extreme way - asking for help all the time. Obviously I didn't express it here, even though I meant it.

We can achieve far greater things in a good team than alone, however, when you face a problem, when is the point when you should ask for someone to assist you? I mean, every problem you ever face... you have the capability of coming up with a solution to that.

Also, when we look for advice, do you ever really want solutions, or do you want ideas/hints? Wouldn't it be better to spend your time for developing your own brain by thinking about various answers rather than to get it handed to you on a plate? At the same time, it seems silly to cogitate on problems that have already been solved by many people.

You're right, one must find the right balance. You just have to figure it out on a case-by-case basis. That's part of our individual and collective problem-solving work. Sometimes it helps to have someone tell you that actually you could figure it out on your own. Other times it helps if someone tells you that so-and-so or such-and-such could help. Like in anamoly's thread. I offer anamoly the advice to meditate, and ze did and has been successful thus far. Would it have been better to just say, "Go figure it out without my help"? No.

I think we could say both that in general people 1) don't always know how to ask for help WHEN they need it and 2) don't always know how to ask themselves for help when they'd be able to give it. They're both important to our well-being. Personally, I could work on both. When you're in therapy, a lot of it is the therapist asking you questions that you have to answer for yourself, and that simple thing can redirect your mind to solution-seeking. But therapy is a form of help.

[Alison Jenkins]

Asking for help is vital no matter what your age is. I work with lots of people who wait so long to ask for help that when they do their lives are in a terrible mess.

Asking for help is a really mature thing to do.

Alison

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

Originally Posted by Lifeisamazing

My question is Isn't it much more enjoyable to come up with your own solution than to make it really simple by asking someone else?

This reminds me of my son always saying "I DO IT!" even though he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

Asking for help all the time is self limiting, but so is insisting on doing everything your way.

The middle way is the best way. Happy medium.

Anyways "the squeaky wheel gets the grease", as they say...

[ssandra]

I think asking for advice and help is always a good thing, and so is making up your own mind and decisions about the advice and help offered.

[Angelique]

I suck at balancing this. I wish I were more balanced, but I'm not. In some areas I'll rely on help way too much, but in other areas I'll suck up and shut up about it completely.

Balance would be an intelligent way to go about it. You can leverage other people's strengths where your weaknesses lie, and vice versa.

I've heard of communities built where this is possible, like building a network bank. Oh man, can't remember where but I read about a lady that did just that in Florida I think. Where different professionals would go to a center and share their knowledge. In return, they would be able to extract the same amount of time from another person at the network bank.

[ZephyrusX]

I think the issue is only a problem if you are unable to make a decision independently. It is beneficial to gather opinions and different perspectives from other people (especially if they are more experienced than us), but ideally we are going to synthesize that information in a manner that reflects the self and act on it. I’m not sure if there is a point where a person is asking for help too much so long as they trust their own decisions. I see asking for help simply as an external means of gathering the resources I need in order to make a decision.

[Critical]

I think that its faster to think about the situation by yourself and come to conclusions that are more personally suited to fit your needs. If you ask someone for advice its going to be what helped them in that situation, and no matter how similar you are you still may be two completely different people. Universal truths are there, and can be communicated, but in the end I think the concepts are only fully grasped on your own thinking time.

[VinceG]

People never ask for help.

Nor do they ever figure anything out for themselves.

What they do is far worse. They sit and wait for something that somebody else says to resonate with them. That way they get to feel like they're both asking for help and figuring things out for themselves, when in fact they're doing neither. They're finding validation for their messed up life.

[Lifeisamazing]

Originally Posted by VinceG

People never ask for help.

Nor do they ever figure anything out for themselves.

What they do is far worse. They sit and wait for something that somebody else says to resonate with them. That way they get to feel like they're both asking for help and figuring things out for themselves, when in fact they're doing neither. They're finding validation for their messed up life.

Aren't these broad generalizations?

[Lifeisamazing]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

I think the issue is only a problem if you are unable to make a decision independently. It is beneficial to gather opinions and different perspectives from other people (especially if they are more experienced than us), but ideally we are going to synthesize that information in a manner that reflects the self and act on it. I’m not sure if there is a point where a person is asking for help too much so long as they trust their own decisions. I see asking for help simply as an external means of gathering the resources I need in order to make a decision.

I'm thinking about efficiency. You only have X years to live and you want to maximize your brain capacity. Thats why it's an interesting and important question.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by Lifeisamazing

Aren't these broad generalizations?

Yep.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by VinceG

People never ask for help.

Nor do they ever figure anything out for themselves.

What they do is far worse. They sit and wait for something that somebody else says to resonate with them. That way they get to feel like they're both asking for help and figuring things out for themselves, when in fact they're doing neither. They're finding validation for their messed up life.

HUG honey!

Don't know what's going on with you lately... but I'm sure it will all be ok again very soon...

Lots of love!!

[ZephyrusX]

Originally Posted by Lifeisamazing

I'm thinking about efficiency. You only have X years to live and you want to maximize your brain capacity. Thats why it's an interesting and important question.

And you think you can maximize your brain’s capacity by not depending on external resources? Lets put it this way. You said else where that you love debating as it provides a means to… truth or wisdom… or something like that. But you can only form your thought and critique of another’s words in relation to that other person. You are dependant upon that externality. All participants of the debate are interdependent upon each other. This is the hallmark of academia btw; a community of scholars critique and build upon each others propositions and studies, and in doing so, a body of knowledge is formulated. If this is not development of one’s brain capacity, then what is? When people ask for help, they are not passively absorbing what the other person says. They synthesize and build upon that information according to their own experiences. I wouldn't call this 'simple'.

Well… may be I just don’t understand what you are trying to get at?

[Lifeisamazing]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

And you think you can maximize your brain’s capacity by not depending on external resources? Lets put it this way. You said else where that you love debating as it provides a means to… truth or wisdom… or something like that. But you can only form your thought and critique of another’s words in relation to that other person. You are dependant upon that externality. All participants of the debate are interdependent upon each other. This is the hallmark of academia btw; a community of scholars critique and build upon each others propositions and studies, and in doing so, a body of knowledge is formulated. If this is not development of one’s brain capacity, then what is? When people ask for help, they are not passively absorbing what the other person says. They synthesize and build upon that information according to their own experiences. I wouldn't call this 'simple'.

Well… may be I just don’t understand what you are trying to get at?

Let me put it this way. It's a math class. The teacher gives everybody a similar task to solve. Now, most people ask: "What formula should we use?" Some (very few) ask themselves: "What formula can I create with the information I have?" and start connecting the pieces. Obviously when we look for advice, then we look for those extra pieces not for the formula or at least we shouldn't look for the formula regarding our brain development and dealing with future problems. This is what I'm getting at.

I'm definitely not someone who thinks that there's no need for advice or to read on some topic, I'm just interested in finding the line, the right balance.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Lifeisamazing

Let me put it this way. It's a math class. The teacher gives everybody a similar task to solve. Now, most people ask: "What formula should we use?" Some (very few) ask themselves: "What formula can I create with the information I have?" and start connecting the pieces. Obviously when we look for advice, then we look for those extra pieces not for the formula or at least we shouldn't look for the formula regarding our brain development and dealing with future problems. This is what I'm getting at.

I'm definitely not someone who thinks that there's no need for advice or to read on some topic, I'm just interested in finding the line, the right balance.

In this case it depends on what you want to learn. Do you want to learn how to solve the math problem or do you want to learn how to create a formula?

Same goes for any "problem" you have. If you want to solve the issue and move on, asking for help is great.

If you want to learn how to solve the issue, asking for advice on that is great.

(you still have to do it yourself)

[Lifeisamazing]

Originally Posted by ssandra

In this case it depends on what you want to learn. Do you want to learn how to solve the math problem or do you want to learn how to create a formula?

Same goes for any "problem" you have. If you want to solve the issue and move on, asking for help is great.

If you want to learn how to solve the issue, asking for advice on that is great.

(you still have to do it yourself)

If you create the formula, you solve the problem and develop your brain, which means that you can find solutions to similar future problems much faster and easier.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Lifeisamazing

If you create the formula, you solve the problem and develop your brain, which means that you can find solutions to similar future problems much faster and easier.

True, but that isn't always the thing you are looking for. Sometimes you just need to know how much flour you need to bake a cake (from cubs to liters) and you don't care about how to calculate that.

I personally am a bit fan of learning by example anyway, and I absolutely get mad when people feel that i should learn something myself when they have the answer. I prefer if they just give me the answer, and then I'll make my mind up about it...

[Lifeisamazing]

Originally Posted by ssandra

True, but that isn't always the thing you are looking for. Sometimes you just need to know how much flour you need to bake a cake (from cubs to liters) and you don't care about how to calculate that.

I personally am a bit fan of learning by example anyway, and I absolutely get mad when people feel that i should learn something myself when they have the answer. I prefer if they just give me the answer, and then I'll make my mind up about it...

I feel the same way, Sandra. I often think: "Why should I waste time thinking if I could get the answer pretty easily from someone else?" There are some areas where I don't care about being able to put together puzzles myself. Yet, I want to be someone who has the potential to come up with the best muscle building training program ever for most people or something alike (you know, to create something really big). This would require great deal of analyzing, thinking, experimenting, putting the pieces together. I just want to be someone who changes the world in a very remarkable way and gets talked about in the books of history.

[ssandra]

But if you want that, you are best of spending your energy first learning all that there already is to learn, and then spending your energy on improving or learning new stuff.

Spending your energy on inviting things that are already invented seems a waste of energy to me..

[Lifeisamazing]

Originally Posted by ssandra

But if you want that, you are best of spending your energy first learning all that there already is to learn, and then spending your energy on improving or learning new stuff.

Spending your energy on inviting things that are already invented seems a waste of energy to me..

It takes more than one lifetime to learn everything about one area that there has been discovered/proven.

This is what I'm doing, however, there has to be a fine line - time for reading and time for creating.

[ZephyrusX]

Originally Posted by Lifeisamazing

Let me put it this way. It's a math class. The teacher gives everybody a similar task to solve. Now, most people ask: "What formula should we use?" Some (very few) ask themselves: "What formula can I create with the information I have?" and start connecting the pieces. Obviously when we look for advice, then we look for those extra pieces not for the formula or at least we shouldn't look for the formula regarding our brain development and dealing with future problems. This is what I'm getting at.

I'm definitely not someone who thinks that there's no need for advice or to read on some topic, I'm just interested in finding the line, the right balance.

Are you talking about originality? I don't think most people ever do get to the point where they create something truely original (as you mentioned). But I suspect those who do master everything there is to know in their field before they begin to synthesize that information in new and original ways. That still involves a community where knowledge and criticism are exchanged. In a way, I find the philosophy behind our Western notion of intellectual property rather silly. It wants to give 'moral authorship' (I forget the exact legal term) to the person who originally created the product via copyright, patents or trademarks. But we do not create anything in a vacuum, and chances are, if you are creating a new anti-retroviral drug (or whatever), you are relying on a previous body of knowledge generated from years of researchers' work in order to do so. Originality stems from the community just as much as it does from the individual; there are no 100% individual inventors.

[Angela]

I think it depends on my emotional guidance system and my evaulation of how much access I have to the resources that would make a difference.

If I'm enjoying figuring it out for myself -- getting myself into an insightful state, making connections, shifting perspectives, etc., I'll just go ahead and enjoy figuring it out for myself.

If I'm struggling -- and I don't have access to my own inner resources for letting go of whatever resistance I am doing -- or if I just don't have access to the internal or external resources I can see would be helpful, whether I'm feeling good or not -- then asking for help is probably my best bet.

[Kurtzilla]

We all don't have the answers in life and nor will we. Asking for help is a great thing and it shows you want to grow and learn from others. Sometimes we all have to swallow our pride and ask for help every now and then.

[Lifeisamazing]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

Are you talking about originality? I don't think most people ever do get to the point where they create something truely original (as you mentioned). But I suspect those who do master everything there is to know in their field before they begin to synthesize that information in new and original ways. That still involves a community where knowledge and criticism are exchanged. In a way, I find the philosophy behind our Western notion of intellectual property rather silly. It wants to give 'moral authorship' (I forget the exact legal term) to the person who originally created the product via copyright, patents or trademarks. But we do not create anything in a vacuum, and chances are, if you are creating a new anti-retroviral drug (or whatever), you are relying on a previous body of knowledge generated from years of researchers' work in order to do so. Originality stems from the community just as much as it does from the individual; there are no 100% individual inventors.

You make a good point. However, I read somewhere that at some point mastery and creativity are not in correlation anymore. I think the reason is that if you feel that you are an expert in something, you are not willing to listen to new possibilities. In other words: "I know so much about this. I'm not going to listen to some ignorant young person's idea." Still, you make a valid point.

[Lifeisamazing]

Originally Posted by Angela

I think it depends on my emotional guidance system and my evaulation of how much access I have to the resources that would make a difference.

If I'm enjoying figuring it out for myself -- getting myself into an insightful state, making connections, shifting perspectives, etc., I'll just go ahead and enjoy figuring it out for myself.

If I'm struggling -- and I don't have access to my own inner resources for letting go of whatever resistance I am doing -- or if I just don't have access to the internal or external resources I can see would be helpful, whether I'm feeling good or not -- then asking for help is probably my best bet.

True. If you're getting lots of ideas, then it's probably much better and more enjoyable to figure something out.

That said, how many times do you come up with something exceptional without struggle? An example: your life purpose. You'll come up with a great idea perhaps after you have scribbled down 150 ideas. The last ideas are hardly written down with enjoyment.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Lifeisamazing

That said, how many times do you come up with something exceptional without struggle? An example: your life purpose. You'll come up with a great idea perhaps after you have scribbled down 150 ideas. The last ideas are hardly written down with enjoyment.

That's not a good example for me, because the entire process of brainstorming IS enjoyable for me, start to finish.

[Lifeisamazing]

Originally Posted by Angela

That's not a good example for me, because the entire process of brainstorming IS enjoyable for me, start to finish.

That's awesome. You're a lucky one. I like that too but I also get frustrated sometimes, when those ideas are not just coming.