Getting what you want

[James81]

Originally Posted by SatvikBeri

You can get cheesecake from the Cheesecake Factory. But you do not have to go to the Cheesecake Factory to get cheesecake.

Ha! I never knew what the hell Cheesecake Factory was until I got involved with the California girl earlier in the year. When I was out there, she took me to this one that really swanky looking and we sat outside on the deck that overlooked some sort of water/lake/whatever. I was like, DAMN, for something that's supposed to be on par with an Applebees, this seems a little swank. (I don't guess it was really THAT swank, but it was a little nicer than I was expecting. )

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by Angela

enlightenment, shmenlightenment.

Most overused word in PD/New Age spirituality. It's lost its luster!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

Most overused word in PD/New Age spirituality. It's lost its luster!

Ha ha!! Pun intended?

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by Angela

enlightenment, shmenlightenment.

Yeah. I don't like to use the term myself, but I've got no other word for it.

Again, as much as I love them, words often fail ...

[Angela]

I'm really glad we had this chat, guys and gals. Mr. Sandman is here now; I'll see you soon. Lots of love to y'all.

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by Angela

Ha ha!! Pun intended?

Jigga what?

Night lady!

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by Angela

I'm really glad we had this chat, guys and gals. Mr. Sandman is here now; I'll see you soon. Lots of love to y'all.

And so, another song pops into my head....

I'm so glad we had this time together....
Just to have a laugh, and sing a song...
Seems we just get started, and before you know it,
Comes the time we have to say...

So long....

[James81]

Speaking of songs, I heard this one tonight and I really liked the words:

YouTube - I'm In Here - The Anthem For Autism

(Although, I would argue that this song could apply to just about every human being on the planet. )

[davidv90]

Is it possible to want something really bad but not get depressed or sad when you don't get it?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by davidv90

Is it possible to want something really bad but not get depressed or sad when you don't get it?

That's what we were talking about earlier in this thread: attachment and desire, two different things, and yes, it is possible to have desire without being attached.

As I was saying, one way to see your way through an attachment (when you want something that, if you don't get it, you will feel bad) is to look deeper inside yourself: What is your heart's desire about this thing, what value will you be generating for yourself and for the world when you get it?

Please read the first page or two of this thread for more info on that.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

And as for surrendering the desire for everything, yes. .

Well, Buddha tried that, and look where he is now

j/k

Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with desire, even desire for Lamborghinis and million dollar checks. In fact, I think desire is necessary in order to function in life. Seriously, even the desire to pee in a clean bathroom is still desire.

ETA: In fact, I think desire is divine guidance from the universe. Of course, it can be misused just like anything through greed and what have you.

[LostMyMap]

Hi Angela, I hope you are feeling better today!

I was a little concerned about the part about getting what you want, and not minding so much that someone gets stepped on. On a level playing field, no problem. But sometimes it isn't level, and people get stepped on who really don't have the ability to deal with it. I don't think that's what you meant, I just wanted to clarify.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

Hi Angela, I hope you are feeling better today!

I was a little concerned about the part about getting what you want, and not minding so much that someone gets stepped on. On a level playing field, no problem. But sometimes it isn't level, and people get stepped on who really don't have the ability to deal with it. I don't think that's what you meant, I just wanted to clarify.

Thank you, I am feeling better today!

Do you have a specific situation in mind, where someone gets stepped on and doesn't have the ability to deal with it?

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by Angela

Thank you, I am feeling better today!

Do you have a specific situation in mind, where someone gets stepped on and doesn't have the ability to deal with it?

Well I was thinking in a general sense. Let me try an example. My step-father's desire was to work for himself. He was always quitting a job and trying some new scheme, none of which worked out well. As a result we were mostly poor and did without often. My brother and I were kids so we didn't have any say in the matter, we were along for the ride.

Now as an adult, I can say that I learned from that experience, but as kids I feel we were stepped on because every time he got his desire (no boss over him) we got poorer.

Don't know if that is the best example. Can you see what I mean though, not taking advantage of people who can't help their position?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

Well I was thinking in a general sense. Let me try an example. My step-father's desire was to work for himself. He was always quitting a job and trying some new scheme, none of which worked out well. As a result we were mostly poor and did without often. My brother and I were kids so we didn't have any say in the matter, we were along for the ride.

Now as an adult, I can say that I learned from that experience, but as kids I feel we were stepped on because every time he got his desire (no boss over him) we got poorer.

Don't know if that is the best example. Can you see what I mean though, not taking advantage of people who can't help their position?

That's a great example! from your perspective as a kid, you felt stepped on because you felt like your step-dad's win (making a choice that worked for him) meant you lose (you're poor and often do without).

Would I make the same choice your dad made? I don't know, maybe not, but I consider that he did the best he could with the resources he had available. If I were coaching him, I would ask him to consider how his choices are working out, and what impact they have on himself and on the people around him, particularly his dependents. If I were coaching you, I would ask you to consider if it's actually The Truth that you were stepped on, or if your experience contains all sorts of extraordinarily valuable learnings that have gotten you where you are, and informed the sort of parent you are committed to being.

I wouldn't say that what happened shouldn't have happened - it should have happened, because it did happen. I'm not interested in arguing with reality. But I might ask, what is it that you can learn from the experience, the learning of which will be there to protect you going forward, and allow you to release any old negative emotion from it? And if I were speaking to the child who is experiencing that right now, I might assist him in accessing internal and external resources that will serve his highest interest, but I wouldn't encourage him to believe that he is being stepped on -- because that's not a very empowering context.

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by Angela

The midlife crisis -- the anytime in life crisis -- is, I think, the sense of being disconnected from the heart's desires.

Fortunately that's not a tragedy; it's only feedback. It's a message, an angel, that is saying: ok, time to focus: what is it I want that, if I were to have, be, or do it, I would be totally lit up and inspired? What brand new possibility do I want to be the source of for myself, my family, my community, and the world?

And when you generate that, you can actually transform yourself into BEING it, just like that - *POOF*! And then the occurrence of the signposts and representations transforms, as well -- the things 'n stuff you thought you wanted look different suddenly, often just becoming trinkets and baubles that you don't really want after all, and sometimes looking like fun games (instead of stressful, far-away someday-type yearnings.)

Sorry, Angela, if I'm correct in what you're saying here, I just can't relate to it.

Again, I question motive--why is it important that you become anything specific? I this not still an attempt at ego gratification? You may want to become a mogul, and using such a method, may indeed become a mogul, but end up dying young from the stress of being a mogul. As the saying goes, "be careful what you wish for...".

Not sure what I'm missing, here. Why would you want to be the "source" of anything, when, in essence, you're already the Source of everything?

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by Angela

Hi, Ikkyo, you're right, maybe that's the thing that occurs as "scary." Collapsing together "attachment" and "desire."

You still haven't convinced me how desire is not attachment.

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by Angela

Although, wanting to be free of desire is itself a result that one wants.

Indeed, wanting to be free of desire is, itself, desire. But surrendering the will to a higher power is not wanting anything. It is simply surrender.

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

Sorry, Angela, if I'm correct in what you're saying here, I just can't relate to it.

Again, I question motive--why is it important that you become anything specific? I this not still an attempt at ego gratification? You may want to become a mogul, and using such a method, may indeed become a mogul, but end up dying young from the stress of being a mogul. As the saying goes, "be careful what you wish for...".

Not sure what I'm missing, here. Why would you want to be the "source" of anything, when, in essence, you're already the Source of everything?

I was wondering if that phrase was going to come up. Is getting what we want scary because what we want probably comes with some side effects?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

Sorry, Angela, if I'm correct in what you're saying here, I just can't relate to it.

Again, I question motive--why is it important that you become anything specific?

Because it's fun.

I this not still an attempt at ego gratification?

ego, schmego.

You may want to become a mogul, and using such a method, may indeed become a mogul, but end up dying young from the stress of being a mogul. As the saying goes, "be careful what you wish for...".

My experience is that heart's desires don't kill people off young from stress -- on the contrary; they enliven and invigorate people.

Not sure what I'm missing, here. Why would you want to be the "source" of anything, when, in essence, you're already the Source of everything?

My experience is that some people generate ways of being that feels great to be around -- joy, freedom, peace, love, enthusiasm, creative spark, all kinds of things. And some people generate ways of being that don't feel so great to me. I prefer to be a person who generates the ways of being that feel great for me to be around. Why? Again, because it's fun.

Originally Posted by Solipsist

You still haven't convinced me how desire is not attachment.

I haven't been trying to.

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

I was wondering if that phrase was going to come up. Is getting what we want scary because what we want probably comes with some side effects?

Not that I'm really scared to get what I want here, Lost, but yes, I think that's a viable consideration.

[Angela]

Again, my experience of hearts' desires is that the there are no undesirable side effects. If there are undesirable side effects, it's not a heart's desire.

[ChrisL]

Lostmap - Getting what we want can be scary if we have a belief that something scary will happen if we get what we want (i.e. the other shoe will drop), or if we have some upper limit/ceiling with how much we can receive. I know some people that couldn't bear to go past their parent in what they had, until their parents died and they could move on.

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by Angela

Because it's fun.
ego, schmego.

Okay, here's where you lose all my support in even this very discussion, Angela. It is evasive, and avoids answering the question, directly.

Tell you what--how about I visit your house, and just blow your brains out, just because I might think it's "fun"? I suppose that might prove your point? It is precisely this attitude that makes me averse to even further discussion on the topic.

My experience is that heart's desires don't kill people off young from stress -- on the contrary; they enliven and invigorate people.

Yeah, I guess you're right, here. Adolf Hitler was certainly enlivened and invigorated in his heart's desire to rule Europe, and he didn't die from stress.

My experience is that some people generate ways of being that feels great to be around -- joy, freedom, peace, love, enthusiasm, creative spark, all kinds of things. And some people generate ways of being that don't feel so great to me. I prefer to be a person who generates the ways of being that feel great for me to be around. Why? Again, because it's fun.

So that's the answer, I suppose--just have fun!!

Weeeeeeee!! Let's all just have fun!!!



ETA: This is where you show me that you're ego is MASSIVE, Angela. I can relate to that right now, because I'm having to surrender my own. THIS is what scares me. THIS is why you sometimes show me that you're a person that I specifically DON"T want to be around.

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by Angela

Again, my experience of hearts' desires is that the there are no undesirable side effects. If there are undesirable side effects, it's not a heart's desire.

OOOOh. So we could use that then to help decide if something we want is really a heart's desire? Not the only thing, but maybe a useful criteria?

If so, that would pretty much answer the bit about stepping on someone. If I determine that getting what I want would be stepping on someone and I consider that to be undesirable, then I can re-evaluate things.

Or am I being too logical again...

[ChrisL]

Lostmap - I was looking at your example about your father - how he wanted to work for himself. I'm going to use an analogy which I think Angela and probably others can probably relate to - being, doing, having. Create a target with being in the center, then doing around that, then having at the edge. Most people are living in the Having and Doing segments, without ever reaching the center. And at the center we want to embody what it is we want. We're typically looking for it on the outside - externally validating.

For example, your father might have wanted to work for himself so that he could let himself feel a sense of freedom, power, etc. When we actually know the core issue we want to embody, then suddenly the Doing and Having can start reflecting our core from the inside out. If we know that we want to personify freedom (or whatever we want to embody/be), then we become more internally-validating and not so rigid about the Doing and Having.

Angela - I'm in agreement with you about the heart's desires not having undesirable side-affects. My experience has been that our internal conflict (i.e. not matching our thoughts, feelings, words, and actions), contained within the ego/personality, located in the etheric bodies of the body and soul, is what creates the undesirable results in relationships, jobs, and attracting what we want in general. It's like conflict is a stained-glass window, and when we shine our consciousness through it, anything we are trying to attract resembles the stained glass conflict. Then when we are clear, like a piece of clear glass, our heart's desire can manifest more directly!

Solopsist - I see Desire as a seperation between Thought and Feeling. If we can unify them, then we feel completion/satisfaction. One way to feel complete is to attract what we want to then let ourselves feel satisfied, another way is to embody the feeling of having what we want, and yet another way is to feel satisfied with now. My experience has been that at some point we really are living in the void/abyss - no definition, no desire, just a conscious Creator to the present moment.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

Okay, here's where you lose all my support in even this very discussion, Angela. It is evasive, and avoids answering the question, directly.

I'm sorry you think it's evasive and avoids answering the question. From my point of view, it very directly answers the question - it is the heart of the matter. I really have no better or more full answer to the question of what motivates me to take on a particular way of being -- it's just fun!

Tell you what--how about I visit your house, and just blow your brains out, just because I might think it's "fun"? I suppose that might prove your point? It is precisely this attitude that makes me averse to even further discussion on the topic.
Yeah, I guess you're right, here. Adolf Hitler was certainly enlivened and invigorated in his heart's desire to rule Europe, and he didn't die from stress.
So that's the answer, I suppose--just have fun!!

Weeeeeeee!! Let's all just have fun!!!

Is that your heart's desire -- do you think it would be fun to visit my house and blow my brains out? Because if you do, I'm kind of averse to discuss this topic (or any other topic! ) with you further, too!

I don't think people do destructive behaviors out of hearts' desires. I think they do those kind of behaviors because they haven't gotten in touch with their hearts' desires, and they're desperately trying to fulfill or satisfy something in themselves. Even the people who do stuff like that for fun, I don't think it's their heart's desire. Please note: just because something is fun doesn't mean it's a heart's desire! But doing or being a heart's desire is usually pretty darned fun.

Are you letting this discussion, or my expression of my perspective, move you away from Surrender or Peace?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

OOOOh. So we could use that then to help decide if something we want is really a heart's desire? Not the only thing, but maybe a useful criteria?

If so, that would pretty much answer the bit about stepping on someone. If I determine that getting what I want would be stepping on someone and I consider that to be undesirable, then I can re-evaluate things.

Or am I being too logical again...

Well, I think you might get a clearer idea of what I'm talking about if you were to actually take a look at what your heart's desire is. When you are really present to that, and you're thereby generating it, I think the idea of it occurring like a loss for anyone else may make you giggle a little bit.

Is it something you're interested in distinguishing for yourself?

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Lostmap - I was looking at your example about your father - how he wanted to work for himself. I'm going to use an analogy which I think Angela and probably others can probably relate to - being, doing, having. Create a target with being in the center, then doing around that, then having at the edge. Most people are living in the Having and Doing segments, without ever reaching the center. And at the center we want to embody what it is we want. We're typically looking for it on the outside - externally validating.

For example, your father might have wanted to work for himself so that he could let himself feel a sense of freedom, power, etc. When we actually know the core issue we want to embody, then suddenly the Doing and Having can start reflecting our core from the inside out. If we know that we want to personify freedom (or whatever we want to embody/be), then we become more internally-validating and not so rigid about the Doing and Having.

OK. The step-father example was for the sub-topic of 'stepping on' other people in the quest to 'get what you want'. I do believe he wanted that sense of freedom etc. just as I do in being self-employed. The point was, he didn't look outside himself enough to see what his actions were causing.

I think Angela addressed that one, just now.

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by Angela

I'm sorry you think it's evasive and avoids answering the question. From my point of view, it very directly answers the question - it is the heart of the matter. I really have no better or more full answer to the question of what motivates me to take on a particular way of being -- it's just fun!

Well, okay, I guess. Go have your fun, then.

Is that your heart's desire -- do you think it would be fun to visit my house and blow my brains out? Because if you do, I'm kind of averse to discuss this topic (or any other topic! ) with you further, too!

For the record, no. That I would want to do such a thing is my ego reacting to yours. That is my point about wanting anything.

I don't think people do destructive behaviors out of hearts' desires. I think they do those kind of behaviors because they haven't gotten in touch with their hearts' desires, and they're desperately trying to fulfill or satisfy something in themselves. Even the people who do stuff like that for fun, I don't think it's their heart's desire. Please note: just because something is fun doesn't mean it's a heart's desire! But doing or being a heart's desire is usually pretty darned fun.

Then you would disagree that Adolf Hitler's "heart's desire" was to rule Europe? After much study of megalomaniacs, I would disagree that trying to fulfill your "heart's desire" is necessarily fun. Might be for you, but perhaps you're too busy just having fun, apparently, to notice or really care about others, and their real "heart's desires."

Are you letting this discussion, or my expression of my perspective, move you away from Surrender or Peace?

No. As a matter of fact, I'm using this discussion as a means to surrender my own ego. It's kinda like Jesus meeting the devil in the desert. My peace is ever undisturbed.