At what point does changing your beliefs become a process?

[Trina]

This question may sound naive, but it is an honest one. I see a lot of posts on here about the process for changing beliefs, and it has always got me thinking. When does changing your beliefs become an internal process that you have to consciously work on?

For me, my beliefs have always changed as my experience and awareness grew, and through logic and understanding they changed on their own. I have never had to consciously put my mind to changing something I believed in, or convince myself of something I didn't already know or figure out naturally. My beliefs have definitely changed as I have gotten older (I have gone from religious to atheist, and from Republican to Democrat, for example) and it did happen gradually, but it has never been a conscious process that I had to put time and effort into. It happened on it's own as my world grew.

So, at the risk of sounding naive, when does changing beliefs become something you have to work at? The way it is discussed on here sounds like programming yourself to believe something you don't actually believe, not discovering that something is true and believing it for that reason. Do I make sense? I can understand that something like that would be necessary for someone who was abused as a child to look at relationships in a healthy way, or maybe someone who was raised in a racist family to get over any automatic responses to people of different races that were instilled in them by their parents. But is that necessary for all beliefs? Or am I just not understanding the language you all use?

[Pagoda]

Process may be too strong a word.

I definitely put out the intention that I want to explore the edges of my existing boundary system. That seems to have really opened my eyes and shown me some things I would have never considered before.

I also have tried to write down what I really believe on a subject from time to time. No formal process, but it really helps to clarify things. I then know what areas I may need to explore further.

[Trina]

That makes sense to me. Making a point to be open minded and explore new things is a good thing, in my opinion. Making a point to force a belief you don't really believe, not so much. LOL.

[RT Wolf]

Originally Posted by Trina

So, at the risk of sounding naive, when does changing beliefs become something you have to work at?

When you choose to make it so. The essence of conscious growth is in the "conscious" part, so you choose to start changing your beliefs and do.

There's different kinds of beliefs, obviously. Many of our beliefs become self-fulfilling prophesies (whether because of subjective reality or because of the nature of our minds--believe what you will), so I would rather pick the useful ones versus get stuck with the regular ones. The other thing that Pavlina emphasizes is the idea of trying out beliefs. Yes, it can seem like forcing yourself to believe something you might not, but what if you're wrong in your current belief? That's why its called a belief, cause we believe it, not necessarily because its true. So try out a new belief and if it doesn't work (according to certain criteria in the link below) then you drop it and find a new belief or go back to your old one.

However, some more beliefs one might consider changing if one has them:

- "People like to be left alone" (as an excuse against striking up a conversation with a stranger, Steve also uses this example)
- "I'll never be rich." Not true, as long as you understand the basics of compound interest, you can easily become a millionaire in your life time--provided you start early enough.
- I don't need to consciously change/choose my beliefs. You don't "need" to do anything, but hey, its a lot more fun and in some ways easier to reach some goals.

Some background reading:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...ering-beliefs/

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...ctive-beliefs/

These ones are about questioning spiritual beliefs or fundamental beliefs such as the belief of how reality works:

This one may be most useful to you -- http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...-or-create-it/

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...t-005-beliefs/

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...-your-beliefs/

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...-the-red-pill/

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...ering-beliefs/

Enjoy!

[PMcDonald]

Trina,

I would say to take a deep look at the results you are having in your life - spiritual, financial, in your relationships, etc. and really dig down and be honest with yourself. In which areas are you not getting the results you desire?

From there, you can begin to identify why you haven't gotten the desired results. Hone in on exactly what it is that is preventing you from moving forward in any particular area. Once you have gotten clear, you can begin to reprogram your mind with the new beliefs that will serve you better in achieving your desired results.

So I guess the answer is - when you realized that you can do better or become more in any area of your life, then you can work on changing your beliefs. The key is to be honest enough with yourself to realize that there are things you need to work on.

For the record, I personally believe I am on a life long journey, and therefore knowing that changing my beliefs in a number of areas is required - that process becomes a life long journey as well.

Make sense?

[Brutha]

A lot of people (especially woman) have phobias of spiders. Even when they know that a a little spider can't harm them in any way, those people have a deep believe that the spider is danguarous that may be so strong that the person panics.

No amount of knowledge over spiders will change the belief.

Since the belief has negative consequences for you, you may want to change the belief.
Sure getting knowledge that small spider aren't harmful is a good first step.
And you still need to make the additional step of changing the belief.

Sure you can also live with your spider phobia, it won't kill you.

a) You might go to a therapist and talk about the phobia and understand it. To remove a phobia that way takes years.
b) You might also go to a hypnotherapist and let him change the belief in a few hours.

Do you agree that b) is more efficent than a), focusing on changing the belief is more efficent than focusing on "understanding".

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Trina

So, at the risk of sounding naive, when does changing beliefs become something you have to work at?

When you are changing a core belief about reality or some habit/pattern you've had forever. Usually it's deep stuff that has a huge resistance to change.

I'm working at changing my beliefs about how I 'move' in my life. I have a belief system or framework in my head that says to move (do something, create something new, etc.) I have to (1) know what I'm doing (2) have expectations of the outcome (3) judge my experience with right and wrong.

Its very difficult to do new things in life if I first have to research every last stinkin detail about it, create a picture of how things should unfold in my head, and then judge myself as to how close the experience turns out as related to the picture in my head.

This doesn't work. I know it doesn't work, but I do it all the time and I avoid moving towards new experiences because I approach them with this framework.

I've also learned that the unconscious self is not gonna take this one for me... I have to do it consciously.

This is huge to the psyche. Consider the alternative framework:
(1) allow and move in the unknown (2) stay in the moment (no future or past or expectations) (3) no right or wrong to play with.

It's like taking away Christopher Columbus' compass and stars and say "go find America".

My mind hates it, and it fights it, and I have to consciously keep at it, refocussing in the now and just move from the present moment.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Trina

The way it is discussed on here sounds like programming yourself to believe something you don't actually believe, not discovering that something is true and believing it for that reason. Do I make sense?

Oh yes.

Now, what you must understand is that each of your beliefs operate within a certain "range". Within that range, you can actually quite easily reach for a "better" belief, and truly believe it.

For example, suppose you currently believe this: "I am bad at mathematics."

You probably cannot make the immediate jump to this alternative belief: "I am brilliant in mathematics."

But you could probably make the jump to: "I am not so good at mathematics".

It's likely that you could also make this jump: "If I practise more, my maths could improve."

From there, it's a short hop to: "If I practise a lot, my maths could improve a lot. I could even become better than average."

Doubt and limiting beliefs could creep in. Eg "These maths questions are so difficult. I'm really struggling here. Will I really be able to become better than average."

Squash that thought. Stretch a little more, and consciously reach for this belief: "If I practise a lot and also ask my teacher for extra help, my maths will improve a lot and I will become good at maths."

Now you might already be ready to reach for this belief: "In another six months time, I can become good at maths."

Or even: ""In another three months time, I can become good at maths."

Now build around this belief. Get corresponding beliefs like:

"I could learn to enjoy maths."
"I am getting better at maths."
"I realise now that I've always had the potential to do well in maths. It's just that I didn't practise enough."
"I made a mistake here, but that's good. I learned from this mistake."
"I am good in math."

...

and eventually ---> "I am brilliant in maths."

Better beliefs will translate into better results, because thoughts affect reality. The problem is that people don't realise that they can constantly be reaching for better beliefs, and thereby getting results.

It isn't about choosing to believe something that you don't believe; it's more like all your beliefs are choices, and have always been. You originally chose to believe this - "I am bad at mathematics." - therefore you manifested a certain reality; but you always have the freedom to choose another belief (although your choices are not unlimited - you have to stay within the range of what's currently believable to you).

If you don't see how malleable beliefs really are - note for example on some days how you might feel that your job is a good job and you like it. On other days, you might feel that your job sucks and you really feel like quitting and looking for another job. Yet the job hadn't really changed in the meantime. Your beliefs did.

Now you may see how malleable your beliefs are. Knowing that, why not keep consciously reaching for better beliefs?

[RT Wolf]

^ Excellent post. That sounds similar to the "reach for the best feeling you have" idea from Abraham-Hicks. Our beliefs are very malleable.

Another reason why you might want to consider conscious belief replacement is by considering where most of your beliefs are coming from. You see, we live in an age, and inside that age, everything looks normal to us, without its proper contrast. However, if you step outside that age and start exploring history, you start to find and realize that other people held greatly and vastly different views on everything. We are, in many ways, the products of our age which forms our environment. If you've ever taken sociology or social psychology, you'll realize the extent to which "independant" people are influenced by each other and our surroundings.

Of course, when I speak of our surroundings, I include other people. How many beliefs do you hold from childhood which you just accepted because they were imposed on you before you had any sort of analytic or critical thinking faculty? You might choose to change any of them, but you should analyse them to make sure everything is good. For example, my parents tried to indoctrinate me with the idea that other people don't care and that only my family cares. Which is fine, its their belief formed after being burned by other people so many times (its still an example of a cognitive bias--probably over-influence by vivid emotional evidence), its just a very limiting belief so I never accepted it, consciously. However subconsciously, it was still affecting me so I had to work through it. I'm not saying that people consciously put self-limiting beliefs into your head, but they do do what they thing is best. So that's one reason I believe one should consciously evaluate and then maybe choose to change your beliefs.

Another way that we form beliefs is through our own experiences. However, there are many cognitive biases which affect us, including the Fundamental attribution error - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. That one affects us because of our misunderstanding of how much other people around us and the environment around us affect us.

Here's the wiki page on them Cognitive bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and a list of them here: List of cognitive biases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Another reason you might want to change your beliefs is what I said earlier about experimenting with finding other, more empowering or accurate beliefs.

[Trina]

Thanks for explaining everyone. I understand what you mean now. I knew if I asked here I would get at least one answer that I understood. LOL.

[Sarek@Vulcan]

What about reframing beliefs, what are known methods to do that? Is there some kind of 1,2,3,4... process to do that change beliefs?

[RT Wolf]

Welcome Sarek.

Process for installing/changing beliefs



Edit: Check out my posts at end of the thread, they give a quick summary. Also, ALG described a great method in this thread.