shifting stoicism and detachment

[rei]

Well, I had a fantastic session with Angela last night, and I'm already seeing positive effects from it. Especially with what goes on internally.

Now I'm looking at adjusting things externally. While I know it would probably be better for me in the long run, to focus on feeling something as a way to create a facial expression ... that's not how I'm used to working, so I think a bit of a mechanical process might help.

It seems I can come across as rather stoic in person, or "detached" is the actual word that was used. (That's one reason I love chatting with awesome people online, since I don't really feel particularly stoic.)

I'd prefer to change whatever habits contribute to this. Even if this standoffishness was a valid and appropriate habit for me to set up, I don't want it to be my default anymore. Even if it's temperament, I feel some level of change is possible anyway. Even if I learned it through modeling, I believe with some focus and effort I can change this.

So, I've started by - whenever I think about it - creating a warm and friendly facial expression. I'm used to being more introverted so this is an interesting change, and even when I feel happy I'm not used to showing that all the time. (My guess is these forums have many people who can relate.)

I don't think I want to come across as "bubbly" as that currently seems like it would be a bit incongruent, and could even be pathological based on my initial reading on this topic. But pleasant, gentle, accepting - I'd like my face to convey these things. In short spurts I have conveyed this but it has, up to this point, been different with longer periods of time around a person.

So far, I have not turned up much in Google, which is odd, since I imagine this is a common topic. Then again, maybe most folks who deal with this don't choose "people-friendly" careers. I did, and while when people give me a chance that caring, pleasant, friendly side comes out, I would like it to show up sooner.

Is there anyone in these forums who has transitioned from being seen as stoic to being seen as warm or warmer? If so, please share the methods you used for that.

I think I may make this a very loose 30-day trial.

[secrets0stolen]

Hmmm... I made this shift in the past. The mechanism don't come to mind at the moment, but I'll try to think of some and get back to you!

[rei]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

Hmmm... I made this shift in the past. The mechanism don't come to mind at the moment, but I'll try to think of some and get back to you!

Thank you! Oddly enough I made this kind of shift before too, but somehow it creeped back in.

Maybe it was a reaction to the situation. It shifted last when I was living in a different environment. Hmm...

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by rei

Thank you! Oddly enough I made this kind of shift before too, but somehow it creeped back in.

Maybe it was a reaction to the situation. It shifted last when I was living in a different environment. Hmm...

Ahh... I understand that. It's hard to be in a situation where certain amounts of stoicism are necessary as coping mechanism, but have other areas of your life where you need to appear quite the opposite. I imagine it's even greater with a people-based career.

[rei]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

Ahh... I understand that. It's hard to be in a situation where certain amounts of stoicism are necessary as coping mechanism, but have other areas of your life where you need to appear quite the opposite. I imagine it's even greater with a people-based career.

Thanks for the validation, s0s

[Angela]

Just an idea off the top of my head: do you think it would be fun to do a photo journal, whether it's just for yourself or to share with others, where you take photos of just your face that deliberately illustrate a feeling you're feeling that day? As a work of art, I mean.

Also, have you ever considered taking an improv class?

[rei]

Originally Posted by Angela

Just an idea off the top of my head: do you think it would be fun to do a photo journal, whether it's just for yourself or to share with others, where you take photos of just your face that deliberately illustrate a feeling you're feeling that day? As a work of art, I mean.

That would be fun, actually But I'd have to take a lot of photos since I feel so many different ways each day... This actually inspired another idea - use my webcam more, even if it's just for me, to get an idea of how I look.

Originally Posted by Angela

Also, have you ever considered taking an improv class?

I used to be in an improv group

Great tips, Angela, thank you!

[Angela]

There was a movie star I love named Hedy Lamarr. She was scrumptious. Her face was so calm, so still -- it was a bit startling when she'd break into a smile. One of the fun things about watching her was the micro-subtlety of her expressions, the way her eyes said so much in an otherwise placid face.

I'll be you're like that.

[rei]

Yep, that's very much how I am. While there are undoubtedly settings where this would be honored, viewed neutrally, or even enjoyed since it also tends to create calm in the environment, it's something I'd like to look at tweaking

Is Hedy Lamarr someone I might spot on Turner Classic Movies?

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by rei

Yep, that's very much how I am. While there are undoubtedly settings where this would be honored, viewed neutrally, or even enjoyed since it also tends to create calm in the environment, it's something I'd like to look at tweaking

Is Hedy Lamarr someone I might spot on Turner Classic Movies?

It takes a lot of subtly to read those things and some people obvious aren't good with subtly. I think I'd really enjoy it though.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by rei

Yep, that's very much how I am. While there are undoubtedly settings where this would be honored, viewed neutrally, or even enjoyed since it also tends to create calm in the environment, it's something I'd like to look at tweaking

Is Hedy Lamarr someone I might spot on Turner Classic Movies?

Maybe. She was in "Sampson and Delilah" and a really old, wonderful film with Charles Boyer called "Algiers." She's also the first woman ever depicted having an orgasm in a film (Ecstasy). Not a real one; the director poked her in the butt with a pin to get her face to contort.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Angela

Maybe. She was in "Sampson and Delilah" and a really old, wonderful film with Charles Boyer called "Algiers." She's also the first woman ever depicted having an orgasm in a film (Ecstasy). Not a real one; the director poked her in the butt with a pin to get her face to contort.

Wow, she's beautiful! That's really funny how the director got her to fit the demands of the scene I will check out some of her work if I get the opportunity.

[ZephyrusX]

Sit in front of a large mirror and pull funny faces at your self...

I don't have any serious advice. I have the same problem; I have a stoic facial expression. But people tell me that they can 'read my eyes' so I figure it is not that big of a deal... so long as I am giving them something to read.

[VinceG]

If anyone finds themselves acting "stoic" I would greatly encourage them to read the works of history's greatest Stoics. Marcus Aurelius, Epictetus, Seneca. Stoicism was often thought to be a dry, humorless discipline; actually Stoicism was about being free from suffering. "This too shall pass" is a common saying often said to be stoic, but the stoic sage was in fact completely immune to misfortune, and carried the same ineffable demeanor in good times and bad. They did not give up their wills to fate, they challenged authority and the world by refusing to be affected by them. Real stoicism does not involve repressing their feelings, but by feeling them intensely, and thereby changing their flavors.

"The point is, not how long you live, but how nobly you live." -- Seneca
"How ridiculous and how strange to be surprised at anything which happens in life!" -- Marcus Aurelius
"Man is disturbed not by things, but by the views he takes of them." -- Epictetus

Personally, I find Stoicism much more accessible and much more satisfying than Buddhism.

[rei]

Originally Posted by ZephyrusX

Sit in front of a large mirror and pull funny faces at your self...

I don't have any serious advice. I have the same problem; I have a stoic facial expression. But people tell me that they can 'read my eyes' so I figure it is not that big of a deal... so long as I am giving them something to read.

I've had people say they can read my eyes as well, and honestly, it seems some people don't seem to think this stuff really has a negative impact. But some do. I feel I convey concern, connection, etc. but perhaps it would help to make it more obvious.

Originally Posted by VinceG

If anyone finds themselves acting "stoic" I would greatly encourage them to read the works of history's greatest Stoics. Marcus Aurelius, Epictetus, Seneca. Stoicism was often thought to be a dry, humorless discipline; actually Stoicism was about being free from suffering. "This too shall pass" is a common saying often said to be stoic, but the stoic sage was in fact completely immune to misfortune, and carried the same ineffable demeanor in good times and bad. They did not give up their wills to fate, they challenged authority and the world by refusing to be affected by them. Real stoicism does not involve repressing their feelings, but by feeling them intensely, and thereby changing their flavors.

"The point is, not how long you live, but how nobly you live." -- Seneca
"How ridiculous and how strange to be surprised at anything which happens in life!" -- Marcus Aurelius
"Man is disturbed not by things, but by the views he takes of them." -- Epictetus

Personally, I find Stoicism much more accessible and much more satisfying than Buddhism.

I found a lot about Stoicism in my research. Honestly, I don't see how examining that philosophy would really help. I mean sure, if my goal was to learn more about proper application of stoic expression, that would be a good idea. But if my goal is to shift out of a stoic expression, I'm not sure how this would support that goal...? (Seems to me it would just lead to rationalizing that it's okay to keep coming across this way - in one sense, that's true, but in another sense I'd rather grow from self-acceptance into shifting this.)

Having said that, I do think there could be value in checking out Stoicism. I've heard Seneca is an inspiring source of information. Thanks for your thoughts.

----
I played with my facial expression while out and about today. People were responding to me with warmth, and while I did not start out by interacting with those same people using a standard stoic expression (no 'control group'), I do think there's a chance they were reflecting increased warmth on my part. I've also been using self-talk to set up a new belief, a reminder that the rest of the world relates to feelings different from my family of origin, and that previous experience/evidence doesn't need to create expectation about others. I've been alternating this with acceptance of the Now and acceptance of whatever way I'm being in the moment.

I've also been exploring how negativity ties into this. The trial is so far seeming to use a bit of energy but that's okay. I also feel a bit like I'm performing but that's okay too, and I do trust that sticking with this long enough will lead to it feeling more natural and authentic. I do have light, peace, joy inside of me, and I do desire to have it show on the surface more of the time. Not really for others, for myself. To create the kind of regular interaction that is a better match for my goals and preferences.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by rei

I found a lot about Stoicism in my research. Honestly, I don't see how examining that philosophy would really help. I mean sure, if my goal was to learn more about proper application of stoic expression, that would be a good idea. But if my goal is to shift out of a stoic expression, I'm not sure how this would support that goal...? (Seems to me it would just lead to rationalizing that it's okay to keep coming across this way - in one sense, that's true, but in another sense I'd rather grow from self-acceptance into shifting this.)

Having said that, I do think there could be value in checking out Stoicism. I've heard Seneca is an inspiring source of information. Thanks for your thoughts.

An excellent introduction to Stoicism can be found here:
Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Stoicism is not to be studied, it's not to be "checked out." It's to be practiced, in the same way you practice a sport. It's training for your emotions.