Sleep Debt

[Zulu]

I've spent some time trying to figure out how sleep works and whether it's possible to sleep less, long term (I'm taking like, for a lifetime, not 1-6 months).

I've done a fair bit of reading and a fair bit of personal experimentation and I feel like I'm no closer to the answer.

Right now, I definitely get the impression that a sleep debt can carry over quite a long time. I've personally felt best:
A) While on modafinil (though this doesn't really count)
B) While free sleeping for extended periods, which is hard given modern constraints.

I've had success sleeping less for weeks/even 1-2 months, but have always ended up crashing.

Adrenaline and cortisol can keep you going for quite a while under conditions of short/long term sleep deprivation but I'm a bit scared of the consequences of this kind of continual adrenal exertion.

Thoughts?

Paul

[joelyle]

thanks for your post. I have the same questions. What is meant by "free-sleeping"? How much sleep do you think is necessary? It seems accurate to me that younger people (up to 13 years) require 10 hrs. sleep/night. It seems the average person could remain refreshed/healthy with six hours per night. (especially if one sleeps 9:30P-3:30A, for example) I liken oversleeping to overeating. I have found that after about 11-12 hours: I can stay in bed all-day. However, too much sleep makes one dull. In a positive frame of mind: sleep will have great quality. In depression: one could sleep half the day and not feel refreshed. I have had periods of my life where I have done this.

[fretho]

You might try brainwave entrainment with binaural beats. Delta and Theta frequencies are supposed to eliminate sleep debt, perhaps it's the short-cut to uberman napping.

[Brutha]

Sleep debt is a metaphyisc concept, I haven't seen any neurological backup of the thesis that it correlates to something physical in the brain or the rest of the body.
The idea that you can measure sleep by the hour is just silly. You won't find a counter in the brain that says: 55 hours sleep debt or something like this.

You might try brainwave entrainment with binaural beats. Delta and Theta frequencies are supposed to eliminate sleep debt, perhaps it's the short-cut to uberman napping.

I don't think that you can elimate all sleep with brainwave entertainement.

The real question (question A) is: Why do humans need sleep?
1) To move Daily memories to long term storage.
2) To relax the eyes.
3) etc.

The next question (question B) is what activities can fill those needs and how well can they do this.
1) Stage 1+2 Sleep
2) delta wave sleep
3) REM sleep

You can add a few other optional things:
1) Meditation
2) brainwave entertainement
3) modafinil
4) Hypnosis

Now you can puzzle a shedule together with things from the B list to solve A needs.
You might get a lot of the items on the A list covered with sleeping a Uberman shedule or using brainwave entertainment + a low amount sleep.

So the question whether they are things on your A list that aren't covered with you packet of B's remains.
Those have to be things that are "long term", because you don't feel them after being on the shedule for a month.

What are the remaining A items if their are any, and is their perhaps a more time efficent way of adding additional B items then adding a lot quantity of the "common sleep package"?

That is a better way of thinking about the problem than using the sleep debt concept.

[John Hill]

I have also been interested in and read about sleep debt. I'm sure sleep debt does occur and wrote about it in the health and fitness section of my site in a post called "are you getting enough sleep". The link is below.

John

[Brutha]

I have also been interested in and read about sleep debt. I'm sure sleep debt does occur and wrote about it in the health and fitness section of my site in a post called "are you getting enough sleep". The link is below.

We are talking here about long turn sleep debt.

You can substitute a lot of sleep in the short term with something like an Uberman shedule and adding more sleep quality.

If the equantion is Sleep effect = Sleep quality*Sleep quantity you could halve the Sleep quantity and double your Sleep quality to get the same effect. Sleep quantity just isn't an isolated variable.

The question is whether covering those short term problem is enough or whether they are long term effects beyond.



It is also funny that a post can be about an abstract concept like sleep debt without mentioning the concept. If I search for you post with the term 'sleep debt' I don't get that post.