The Best Goal is No Goal

[Andrew Brunelle]

I found a post on Zen Habits about the best goal being no goal, and to just do what you are passionate about without concern for how it will turn out or if you will succeed or fail, because when you have no goals, there is no failure. This kind of reminds me of Steve's inspiration trial. I just thought you would enjoy reading about a similar way of life. I'll post the link below:

the best goal is no goal | zen habits

Thoughts?

[Lioness]

There seems to be a lot of synchronicity in the forums right now regarding inspired living, doing only what you love, forgetting about goals, structure, and money. Hmm, I'm contemplating.....

It seems that people like Steve and the Zen guy already achieved a solid level of success through the traditional hard work and discipline and are now able to access a plane of even greater success/contentment/knowledge through a more free floating approach. I'm inclined to think tlhat you have to do the structured work first. For me at this point in the life journey, having no goals would mean achieving very little. If you start walking with no map, compass or destination, unless you're very lucky, won't you just wind up lost?

[Mondrian]

Do we have no goals or do we think we have no goals or do we think we should have no goals?

Is not the idea that we should have no goals, a goal?

What goals do we have that we don't realise are goals we have?

Who has no goals?

I agree, I don't feel 'enlightened enough' to make a living without goals. But then I think I have goals that I don't see properly that are preventing me from making a living. Perhaps making a living is a natural state, that is, one that doesn't need goals. Perhaps hidden goals are getting in the way of making a living. Perhaps the the hidden goal of 'ought not to have goals' is in the way of a natural goalless state.

Am I adding to the confusion or helping clear it away?

[elucidate]

I like to have as little structure as I can when it comes to my creativity, and then I can enjoy the process of whatever I am doing in the moment...instead of being future oriented as with the setting of goals...always having to keep the end result in mind rather than the journey getting there.
I find that difficult and less enjoyable...but then, it means I also have very little ambition...I just go with the flow and sometimes am not decisive enough. So yeah, it can lead to getting lost...but sometimes getting lost can be fun.

In that way I very much resonate with Zen...it sets me free to be without the structure of goal setting...though sometimes I will set intentions, like, this month I'm gonna look for and find the right apartment for me to move into, as my time in this current space is well and truly over.

It also eradicates the feeling of having somehow failed if I didn't get it done when I said I would. That can be an unnecessary pressure that can lead to getting down on yourself later if it doesn't work out, if you are prone to beating yourself up about stuff, as I am. Some people work really well under pressure and can come up with the goods on time and feel great...and that's great for them. Until I am better at not beating myself up or being hard on myself, then I won't be setting goals anytime soon.

I think also, it can be difficult to live this way and be surrounded by people who are goal oriented and feel it is their right to pressure you to do things, according to THEIR time periods, to be considered 'an achiever' and therefore be placed in their high esteem, as opposed to risking being placed in their "she's just lazy" category in their judgemental minds. But who are you doing it for...them or yourself?

It's always really important to know who you are wanting to achieve something for...and it's always best if it is just for you!

[AlmostGodess]

Living without goals is a goal in itself.

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

Living without goals is a goal in itself.

It's also surprisingly difficult to live a goal-less life.

[Orecle]

I understand what the author is saying but I feel like it is childlike and irresponsible. Children are the only ones who should feel comfortable not setting goals to a small degree and for a short while. i feel to not set goals is to not be responsible as u would then have to rely on the responsibility of others to produce that which you cant

The basic purpose of life (survival) requires goal-setting and attainment. To produce consistently for our survival and that of our family requires being purposeful. To find and cook food, to find clothing, to find shelter requires goals. To ward off predators (human, disease or otherwise) requires goals.

We live in such an artificial system espiecally in the western world, that people really feel they can reap without sowing.

To live without goals is to live at the mercy of chance, like animals partially do. "I will do what I like, when I like, how I like....." Unfortunately life is way too complex for that and requires forward thinking if you truely want to experience the most.

When i consider principles i always consider what it will be like if the whole world took on the principle and i feel this is as flawed as the financial advisor who advised everyone to dump cash and invest it all in gold. As the late great Jim Rohn said "beware what you teach in mass" or brian tracy "what will this world be if every one in it were just like me"

SO WHAT WOULD THIS WORLD BE, IF EVERYONE STOP SETTING GOALS? WHAT WOULD THIS WORLD BE IF ALL THE FARMERS STOP SETTING GOALS, OR ALL THE RETAILERS STOP SETTING GOALS?

Does the promise of the future not create the actions of today? If we all had an hour to live, would we do what we are doing now?

[KaleidoskopicVision]

Originally Posted by Orecle

I understand what the author is saying but I feel like it is childlike and irresponsible. Children are the only ones who should feel comfortable not setting goals to a small degree and for a short while. i feel to not set goals is to not be responsible as u would then have to rely on the responsibility of others to produce that which you cant

The basic purpose of life (survival) requires goal-setting and attainment. To produce consistently for our survival and that of our family requires being purposeful. To find and cook food, to find clothing, to find shelter requires goals. To ward off predators (human, disease or otherwise) requires goals.

We live in such an artificial system espiecally in the western world, that people really feel they can reap without sowing.

To live without goals is to live at the mercy of chance, like animals partially do. "I will do what I like, when I like, how I like....." Unfortunately life is way too complex for that and requires forward thinking if you truely want to experience the most.

When i consider principles i always consider what it will be like if the whole world took on the principle and i feel this is as flawed as the financial advisor who advised everyone to dump cash and invest it all in gold. As the late great Jim Rohn said "beware what you teach in mass" or brian tracy "what will this world be if every one in it were just like me"

SO WHAT WOULD THIS WORLD BE, IF EVERYONE STOP SETTING GOALS? WHAT WOULD THIS WORLD BE IF ALL THE FARMERS STOP SETTING GOALS, OR ALL THE RETAILERS STOP SETTING GOALS?

Does the promise of the future not create the actions of today? If we all had an hour to live, would we do what we are doing now?

A survival oriented life is one based on the avoidance and fear of one's own mortality. It's a terrible waste of a life, to live in such a way. Yet people do it, every day. Rather than surviving, a life is better spent living.

[Tanja]

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

Living without goals is a goal in itself.

Ah, I was about to say something similar.

I think it's not about having or not having goals, but how you go about them and whether or not you feel too attached to the end result, or as you said without concern for how it will turn out or if you will succeed or fail.
I used to look at my goals as a ''point'' to reach, and I was always aware that I'm not there yet, now it's finally sinking in for me that the whole journey and what you learn along the way leading up to that ''point'' are part of my goal.
And sometimes even though I technically reached my goal, the lessons I learned along the way became more valuable than the goal itself.

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by KaleidoskopicVision

A survival oriented life is one based on the avoidance and fear of one's own mortality. It's a terrible waste of a life, to live in such a way. Yet people do it, every day. Rather than surviving, a life is better spent living.

You cannot live without surviving. Survival oriented life does not require your volition. It is wired into your being, you make provisions for it automatically as you have from when you could provide for yourself. Tell me when you work do you not consider food, shelter bills, medical insurance?

do you not consider your family? when a child initially leaves their parents home, what do you think are the first consideration - shelter, food and clothing or hedonism? Is survival not most peoples biggest expense (rent or mortgage). People who dont worry about that eiether earn enough or live off the charity of others and these are the minority.

As i said before, in the western world, the entreprenaural few have made it that most of us can survive without any thought to whom is producing that which keeps us living. For a few dollars/euros/ pounds (insert currency) we enjoy goods and services we could not begin to pay for in time and effort.

Imagine if those pesky doctors or pharmaceuticals didnt think about survival, or those firefighters or policemen or those people concered with roads, standards, infrastructure?

Question - Have you ever had a project so compelling you could not eat, sleep or do anything but work on your project......

How many days could you work optimally on yr purpose, without worrying about survival NEEDS???

my guess is not many..... Life will always be survival oriented and to the degree you can meet them, your mind transcends them to other higher needs. At least Maslow thought so


Am I saying you should think in terms of purely physical survival? NO

But to truely not have goals, is to not think of your survival, which in turn is suicidal.

What do you think has driven medicine and doctors in whatever culture since the dawn of time? Why do you think man continues to live longer and can get rid of more diseases than at any time in history?

my point is a truely goalless life is irresonsible and to be honest impossible. The acquisition of wants and needs requires either goals or wishing and hope because to get the things which you havent set goals for

P.S. - Both Maslow and David Allens GTD awakened me to a very intersting truth. When somethings are on your mind, you cannot think of anything else long enough without your unconscious bugging you about how you are going to handle it and what the very next actions you will take to move it along. The people who dont consider their survival are the people who know it is already taken care of.

[James81]

I bought a daily planner yesterday, and a big old hardback notebook. In the notebook I started designing my new website in my head and started recording thoughts and ideas. Brainstorming and collecting thoughts.

In the daily planner I made a list of things I would like to do today. A bunch of different things that are small increments of things I would like to make more deep in my life that, added up over time will wield big results.

The thing that I discovered about it was, that I am completely and totally inspired by the process of brainstorming and of setting goals. Just the mere act of DOING that is something I enjoy doing.

I wrote down things that I thought might be inspiring to me to do in regards to different interests I have. My ultimate goal, however, is that if I get stuck on one of the things I have listed is to look at it and see if I can find a perspective that inspires me to do it. If not, then I give myself permission not to do it, recognizing that the true inspiration was in the process of making a list like that and brainstorming ideas.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I'm not sure how practical this approach is, but it would be interesting to do a 30-day trial of no goals and just do what I feel passionate about. I would still be doing, but without goals. There would be no expectation of failure or success, just what actually happens. I just found this article a very interesting way to view the world and perhaps it can have some kind of benefits. Or perhaps not. Only through testing can we know for sure.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

I'm not sure how practical this approach is, but it would be interesting to do a 30-day trial of no goals and just do what I feel passionate about. I would still be doing, but without goals. There would be no expectation of failure or success, just what actually happens. I just found this article a very interesting way to view the world and perhaps it can have some kind of benefits. Or perhaps not. Only through testing can we know for sure.

Bear in mind it's not the goal itself (i.e. the specific thing you are doing), but, rather, how you feel about your goal.

I think it was Plays With Life who once said, "You don't have to think about eating a bowl of ice cream do you? No, you just do it."

Since he said that, I realized how true that was. But then I got hung up on, wait, if I ONLY do what inspires me, I'll bounce around and never get anything done because I get inspired by such random things and there will be no direction to what I'm doing and....

Brrrrt!

Then I realized that, wait a minute, there are all sorts of things to do. There are actions, and, really, those actions only have the meaning that I assign to them, right? For example, I *hate* doing dishes. And that's because I associate doing dishes with being *made* to do dishes 5 days per week growing up (and the childish thought was: I'm made to do chores, but my brother does whatever he wants).

But doing dishes just is....doing dishes. There's only meaning to it that I assign. So, the question is, is there a perspective and a meaning that I can give to doing dishes that would totally inspire me to effortlessly just *do* them? Is there a perspective that I could choose that would have me automatically gravitate to doing dishes, that would make me excited about doing them?

It's the same for any goal. If you want to reach a goal, and that goal requires you to do certain things to attain it, then, it would be far more effective to find ways and perspectives that inspire you to do those things than it would be to just "bull through it and get 'er done."

[IEvo]

There are already a lot of people saying that this isn't really a good idea to practice in the long term, so I'm not going to go on and on about it.

But basically everything I've ever read says this: Successful people set goals. It helps guide them towards what they want and helps them form a good plan in order to get there. And that just makes sense. The great majority of people don't set goals, and the great majority of people do not become 'successful'. They achieve nothing more than mediocrity.

Yet if you ask anyone who has had a lot of success, they'll tell you that setting goals was something they did. And then they set about working towards seeing those goals becoming a reality.

Not setting goals makes you feel better in that there's no pressure to achieve anything, (Which is a good pressure to have anyway.) but when you set your sights on nothing, that's generally all you manage to accomplish as well.

[Angela]

Well, that would make the World Cup pretty dull.

Goals are just fun games. They're not necessarily, and they don't necessarily require "failure" in order to enjoy them.

when you have no goals, there is no failure.

Even when I DON'T have no goals, there is no failure.

Only feedback.

It's like saying, "you shouldn't have sex, because when you have no sex, there is no failure."

[Mondrian]

If you never try you never fail.

If you never fail you never try.

If you try you have failed.

If you have failed you try.

If you have not failed you don't try.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Mondrian

If you never try you never fail.

If you never fail you never try.

If you try you have failed.

If you have failed you try.

If you have not failed you don't try.

wat

[3afash]

I think we have to have a healthy balance of having a goal while knowing that achieving that goal is not going to give you any extra peace or fulfillment. Know that everything we want is within us and nothing external will give us anything more than what we already have. Unattachment from a goal is key to achieving it. And a main reason why people don't achieve their goals is because they are not satisfied with a life that lacks accomplishment of that goal