Martial Arts & Self-Discipline

[Cochonette]

Do martial arts increase your self-discipline? I am a white belt in Aikido, and we train really slowly at my university, so it's the worst example. It hasn't improved my self-discipline except a little bit physically. But I was talking to someone who had second dan in karate and told me that training karate improved her general self-discipline, i.e. with school. I can't imagine this. Has anyone else found that martial arts increased their academic or otherwise non-physical self-discipline? If so, what made it so helpful?

[openeyes]

In short, I would say yes, if you become disciplined in your practice and stay with it rather than getting frustrated with periods of seeming lack of progress and moving on to something else.

Particularly since you're practicing Aikido I would recommend George Leonard's Mastery: The Keys to Success and Long-Term Fulfillment, in which he uses lessons learned from practicing Aikido and applies them to life as a whole. Another option would be his later book, Way of Aikido, The: Life Lessons from an American Sensei, though the first one was a quicker, more enjoyable read for me.

A large focus is on learning to love the plateau and stay with something through to the next peak, keep training through the next plateau, on to the next peak, and so on for years and then decades, with it usually seeming like you're not making any progress and possibly even getting worse.

[Lancer786]

Self-discipline is perhaps one of the most difficult traits to cultivate not just in others but especially in one’s self. Perhaps you started in your youth so its seems to be difficult in this age but children, They begin to understand about the things they have to do not just because they’re told but because it’s right. They will understand, for instance, that homework, house chores, and even eating broccoli, are things they have to do, even if it’s somewhat unpleasant.

[elucidate]

My self-discipline has improved alot since I started about a year and a half ago...I've also been graded twice in that time, so it's VERY motivating to keep going. I'm alot more organized than I was, and not as lazy as I used to be. It's definately helped me in this area. Overcoming that human laziness to put off what you need to do is all part of training...just do it...as the Nike add says...and rest later!

I see all the mundane stuuf like dishes and cleaning my room etc. to be 'just training'...which it is.

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Do martial arts increase your self-discipline? I am a white belt in Aikido, and we train really slowly at my university, so it's the worst example. It hasn't improved my self-discipline except a little bit physically. But I was talking to someone who had second dan in karate and told me that training karate improved her general self-discipline, i.e. with school. I can't imagine this. Has anyone else found that martial arts increased their academic or otherwise non-physical self-discipline? If so, what made it so helpful?

[Captain Drywall]

I think these traits are more revealed than developed, thus if you had it already you go places , thus martial artists seem to be disciplined. Look at how many stick with it and how many drop out.

i am sorry, if you go to a strip mall Martial arts school your just getting screwed. you will waste a ton of time with repetion.

now pay attention: What you learn in Aikito is important. If you learn to stay on the center line, keep you center of gravity. No matter how much you ever want to bend forward dont. keep your center. Americans dont like to be close to other people, but you must get in close for the moves to work. This is basic to ballet, basketball, steeplechase, and most other sports, and of course dance, its no wonder bruce lee was the hong kong cha cha champion.

in the mean time, get some pepper spray and knife. id rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

[180]

The problem is when martial arts get taught by joe shmoe who got his black belt mailed to him from an infomercial. There are a lot of "ok" martial artist teachers that don't learn the fundamentals and don't urger their students on the philosophy.

I joined one such Kung Fu program in my college. Truly disappointing.

Martial arts is NOT about kicks and punches or even about self defense. It's a philosophy and a style of life. The katas and movements are just expressions of self discipline and conquering of the mind.

All martial arts emphasize power over the body through the mind. Not about beefing up and kicking ass. When I joined my college Kung Fu program we spent the majority of the time running laps.

Not what Kung Fu is about... If we were truly training we should have been meditating and getting lectured first. Anyways, self discipline comes from the aspects and execution of martial arts. People who achieve high levels of martial arts ALWAYS emphasize the self discipline aspect and how everything in their life changes because of marital arts.

Martial arts is a system of design where they appeal to students from a life changing perspective. Gaining self confidence and self discipline.

[Dot]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Do martial arts increase your self-discipline? I am a white belt in Aikido, and we train really slowly at my university, so it's the worst example. It hasn't improved my self-discipline except a little bit physically.

Hi, Cochonette,

Could you explain a little more about why you think training slowly is the worst example? Because, you have a challenge right there. You (your ego) seems to feel differently about how you should be trained. And you're already making a value judgement. You have an opportunity for self discipline right in front of your eyes, and you're missing it.

Every time you resist wanting to train slow - there's your ego - the part of you that wants to learn it all in a day, win medals and be the master. : )

How long have you trained? Do you actually want to improve and become proficient in aikido or some other martial art?

[Cochonette]

Okay... first three responses were interesting. Last three responses were weird. I doubt my instructors are the "problem," and I don't want to get into a debate about what martial arts are about because it's different for everyone. My primary instructor is not "joe schmoe" any way I will ever look at it. I love the way he teaches, and he is a major reason I stuck with it.

I am not resisting training slowly. This is not an issue. I simply thought it might be a bad example because there is no intensity to the training, less is learned. Mostly white belts train on campus because the higher level students have less to gain from classes focused on basic techniques and so train at the dojo instead... although more of the higher levels come when our chief instructor is around because he teaches more diverse things that aren't even taught at the dojo.

Do you actually want to improve and become proficient in aikido or some other martial art?

Well, I don't know how you measure "proficiency" in a martial art, but I am definitely working toward the black belt.

[Klamachpin]

I'm going to relate my experience, take from it what you will.

I currently train in Soo Bahk Do, a striking art from Korea. The school I attend has its instructors teach at the local community college, as well as having a separate dojo. Beginning students tend to come from the college, but are encouraged to attend the classes at the dojo if they so wish. Advanced students train primarily at the dojo but are encouraged to aid the instructors at the college for additional training. The belts rank in 10 steps from white to midnight blue (effectively black belt), that at fastest advancement take 3 months to complete a rank. I've trained for roughly a year and a half and am currently an orange belt (step 3 of 10).

I went in seeking confidence and self-discipline -- initial reasonings that were uncommon but not unheard of by my instructor. Most students primary want to learn self-defense or even how to fight. Since starting there have been many days when I didn't want to attend class or practice, and have been about 50/50 on actually attending those days. I consider myself fortunate to have such patient instructors. It wasn't until roughly a year in that I began to perceive changes in my behavior concerning training -- more self-discipline and at least compartmentalized confidence. Only recently has such behavior spread to other parts of my life, which encourages me to train more.

I think that while a specific martial art will train you to do awesome things with your body, the real value of it comes from the philosophy behind training. More than anything else, the school I attend has provided me with a solid base that I can work from, something I found lacking when I first attended college. My instructors and to a lesser extent the other students at the school genuinely want to see me succeed in whatever I'm attempting to accomplish, even if I'm really, really bad at it at first.

I'd encourage you to discuss your concerns with your instructor, and perhaps talk about training at the dojo (or having advanced students come to your class). Training martial arts is not just about the belts or techniques -- it's about the people as well.

[Cochonette]

I do train at the dojo... during summers. That's when I have time. During the school year, well, it just takes too long to get to the dojo and then train and come back (an hour each way, 30 minutes to change and warm up, 1-1.5 hrs training) when I have homework to do.

So in what ways did you see it transfer to other areas of your life?

Thanks for your response.

[Klamachpin]

Insofar as skills learned that have transfered to other parts of my life, I'll cite two examples: one in the realm of confidence, and one in the realm of self-discipline.

Concerning confidence, I've learned to take constructive criticism more easily. Previous to training, any criticism would lead to some heavy irrational thinking in absolute terms -- mainly that I was somehow innately lesser or inferior because I couldn't immediately see what another person perceived. That thinking came from much experience of criticism that wasn't constructive, but rather meant to prop the critic up. Training has brought the opportunity to receive helpful criticism in an area where I know I am not innately skilled. Differentiating between helpful criticism and harmful criticism is still an issue, but at least it doesn't affect me in absolute terms anymore, allowing me to have some resolve in the actions I choose to take.

Specifically, asking women out (and risking rejection) and bringing concerns up to my boss (and risking a poor review) have become easier tasks since I don't react absolutely to the opinion of another.

Within self-discipline, it's largely been a matter of committing myself to scheduled tasks regardless of how I feel about them. Within my training, there have been days when I know class is going to be a whole lot of "ripping me a new one" and yet I still go because it advances me further to my goals. Sacrificing the short-term comfort for the long-term benefit is real to me through training, rather than being some woo-woo concept preached to me by folks attempting to be role-models. The realness transfers to things like keeping a clean home or doing homework that isn't required but recommended; when I see for myself long-term benefits from the short-term inconvenience I am more likely to take action.

I now take a few moments to put things where they belong in my home because I know having a clean home eases my stress/mind. I now do the non-required homework because it allows me to answer questions faster than the alternative. These long-term benefits I was not able to see before training, when attending class regularly directly affected my skill level in terms real to me.

I realize that was a bit of rambling on my part, but hopefully the main points got through. I do want to point out that I do not attribute these gains solely to training Soo Bahk Do, but training has been a strong reinforcement and complementary force. It's certainly not the only way to accomplish the integration of concepts like confidence and self-discipline, but it is one that I know is working for me and hopefully for you as well.

[Cochonette]

Ah, well, I have been training longer than you have, and I have had the same learning experiences to a far lesser extent. I mean, I learn them but they just don't apply very well to other areas of my life. Of course I learned to go to class despite knowing I will be made uncomfortable. I learned to accept criticism... in Aikido class. That applies a little bit to other areas of my life as well, but not much. I don't know how you applied it to other areas of your life. Maybe you are smarter than me.

I actually don't have much trouble accepting criticism anymore, but this is due only a little bit to experience in Aikido and mostly to other experiences like meditation and learning from a friend.

[elucidate]

I just re-read your original post and I wanted to add that you may be taking the fact that you are training "really slow" in a negative way?

If you look at it as a way of really paying attention to detail and perfecting the form of the katas you are given to learn, then this is a discipline in itself. It teaches you to pay attention to detail, which can be a very valuable asset in the world. Also, taking it slow is an effective way of ensuring safety within the dojo, which should be the teachers and students number 1 priority!

All the things you are learning in a physical sense are really teaching you ways of improving your life in the world, in whatever ways you need to improve.

If you can change your perception of things here, you may have better luck overcoming any impatience you seem to be feeling. It's not supposed to be a thing you instantly "get". We all want instant gratification in this society. "Patience is a virtue" wasn't just something someone said for the hell of it!

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Do martial arts increase your self-discipline? I am a white belt in Aikido, and we train really slowly at my university, so it's the worst example. It hasn't improved my self-discipline except a little bit physically. But I was talking to someone who had second dan in karate and told me that training karate improved her general self-discipline, i.e. with school. I can't imagine this. Has anyone else found that martial arts increased their academic or otherwise non-physical self-discipline? If so, what made it so helpful?

[Klamachpin]

Sounds like you have made gains, though, in applying concepts from class to other areas of your life, even if such gains are small. Realizing that you are improving, even if it is really slow, aids in attaining the big, easily noticeable goals faster.

You aren't compartmentalized. The skills/knowledge you learn in one area apply to all other areas of your life. Even through this conversation you've begun looking at your improvement differently.

Do martial arts increase your self-discipline? I am a white belt in Aikido, and we train really slowly at my university, so it's the worst example. It hasn't improved my self-discipline except a little bit physically

.

Of course I learned to go to class despite knowing I will be made uncomfortable. I learned to accept criticism... in Aikido class. That applies a little bit to other areas of my life as well, but not much.

So... Aikido hasn't improved your self-discipline except a little bit physically, but you can accept criticism a little bit in other areas of your life because, in part, of your training in Aikido? Either that's a contrary statement or you've made a small shift in your thinking. I'd like to believe the latter.


Maybe look at your practices in meditation and try to see how that has transfered into Aikido. My instructor has long said that the forms ("hyung" in Soo Bahk Do and I assume "kata" in Aikido) are a form of meditation. Once a connection is made one way it is easier to see the connection(s) the other way. You might see that the skills learned in practicing your kata have improved your meditation.

Then look at other seemingly related areas of your life and look at how skills might transfer over. Once you have a good amount of practice perceiving the gains made through unrelated areas of your life, you can start actively making bigger changes in one area (such as Aikido) that will indirectly affect another area (such as your schoolwork or self-discipline).

Just throwing out ideas and hoping something sticks....

[Cochonette]

Either that's a contrary statement or you've made a small shift in your thinking. I'd like to believe the latter.

No, nothing has changed. It is just a contradictory statement because I consider the amount of influence Aikido has had on my self-discipline outside of Aikido to be so insignificant that it wasn't worth mentioning. The criticism part? I was thinking of merely one example from Aikido, nothing else. And the only reason I even experienced that is because my awareness was extremely heightened at that moment because of an experience I was having with a person outside of Aikido.

I do like that I can use things I learn in Aikido as analogies for aspects of life outside of Aikido... sometimes this does make for good analogies about self-discipline. But that doesn't in itself increase my self-discipline. It only gives me ideas about how to go about improving my self-discipline. That can be helpful in itself, but it's not much different from reading an article on Steve's website and was not what I meant when I opened this thread.

[Dot]

Cochonette, if you only train during the summer/s, you're not really deriving the benefits of continuous training. If your schoolwork is important, by all means do that.

There's a large degree of "self discipline" that comes from just showing up. For the most part during the year, you don't show up to aikido. So, why would you be asking about the benefits of something you really only dabble in?

How long have you trained, btw?

[elucidate]

I agree with this. You can't be getting the most out of it if you are only going half the time.

Originally Posted by Dot

Cochonette, if you only train during the summer/s, you're not really deriving the benefits of continuous training. If your schoolwork is important, by all means do that.

There's a large degree of "self discipline" that comes from just showing up. For the most part during the year, you don't show up to aikido. So, why would you be asking about the benefits of something you really only dabble in?

How long have you trained, btw?

[Valkyrie]

I don't think it would hurt.

I've been training in martial arts since I was a little kid, so it's difficult for me to say whether it has been beneficial to my discipline outside of the dojo since it's always been there.

With a second degree black belt after years and years of training, I feel that it has kept me physically active, strong, and flexible. It boosts confidence because I know I can defend myself.

It definitely took considerable discipline in training. Learning katas is challenging, because you have to memorize all the actions and you have to perfect every aspect of your body throughout the process, literally from head to toe to your very breath. It takes a considerable amount of practice.

Learning to fight against people (especially as a female in a class mostly full of males) is a good growth tool to overcoming fear.

[Cochonette]

I am going to ask anyone to stop commenting on my martial arts experience if you are just going to keep making assumptions about me. I never said I only train during summers. I only train at the DOJO during summers, and I train at my university during the school year. I said it is slow training at my university and faster at the dojo. Also, even if I did train only during summers, I already said that I plan to get a black belt, so going and saying I am merely dabbling in martial arts and dismissing this entire thread shows a greater desire to comment on me than to read what I've written.

[Cochonette]

It boosts confidence because I know I can defend myself.

Learning to fight against people (especially as a female in a class mostly full of males) is a good growth tool to overcoming fear.

I haven't reached the level yet where it I could use it for self-defense, so I haven't experienced this yet. What martial art do you train?

It definitely took considerable discipline in training. Learning katas is challenging, because you have to memorize all the actions and you have to perfect every aspect of your body throughout the process, literally from head to toe to your very breath. It takes a considerable amount of practice.

Oh, that is interesting. Hadn't thought of it that way... I haven't learned the katas that well yet... I can imagine how that will take a lot of discipline in some sense. I've wanted to cross-train or maybe do yoga or dancing to add to my bodily self-control... a lot of times just doing footwork, I feel unstable even though my feet are basically in the right place. One reason I quit playing the saxophone was because I didn't like the incredible oral discipline it seemed to take... I didn't like so much mouthwork! But I do enjoy working with the body as a whole, and this is basically the same thing... just takes a ton of training for those of us who aren't physically talented.

[Dot]

Cochonette, I'm not wanting to dismiss your thread at all, and apologies if it appears that way. I am, however, wanting to qualify your aikido training a bit more than I can make out of the communication you've made here.

Originally Posted by Cochonette

I've wanted to cross-train or maybe do yoga or dancing to add to my bodily self-control... a lot of times just doing footwork, I feel unstable even though my feet are basically in the right place.

I can assure you, you're feet are not in the right place. And the way you continue to add to your bodily self-control is not to cross train, but rather to continue on with aikido training...at least until you reach the dan levels. And doing that, my friend, is gonna take some discipline.

Keep in mind that reaching shodan level is where the actual schools of martial arts start. Shodan is just a milestone that shows that you've learned how to learn; that you're no longer a guest in the school, and that you can demonstrate the basic body of techniques. The application of the technical syllabus within the arts doesn't even really start until nidan.

Our minds like to make all kinds of excuses for us not to go to training. The training's not good enough. It's too far away. I'll make it up next week. Any number of things...

The trick is to just go. Show up. Train. And in that lies the discipline. Stay with it. Keep training. The training - on all levels (physical, emotional, mental, spiritual) - will deepen and widen as you train.

It's a continuous process of emptying the cup. Showing up, soaking in the instruction.. rinse and repeat. And exploration on your own as well is vital. A teacher can only show you one corner of the square. It's up to you to find the other three.

--- signed, a guy who started training aikido in 1988, and kept at it, and continues to train as well as instructs.

[elucidate]

In all fairness, you did spread your story out over about 3 different posts, instead of telling us the full story at the start. How then can you expect us to not get a bit confused or misinterpret your words?

Anyways...I'll leave you to work it out. I've said my piece.