Does Money bring Happiness?

[charlottecharade]

What do you guys think is a source for happiness?

[natopoto11]

Good post. This is an important lesson to learn in our materialistic world.

I differ slightly from your opinion in that I believe money should not be your source of happiness (rather than just saying that money doesn't bring happiness). I believe that money is the symbolic representation of value, but has no value in itself.

The sad truth is that many people do value money. The possession of money does bring happiness to some, just as collecting comic books brings happiness to others. The reward for them is in having it, rather than what it represents or what it can do.

The reason why I believe that money should not be your source of happiness is because it is a symbol of value, rather than value itself. It makes no sense to me to seek a symbol, rather than the quality the symbol represents.

Rather than seeking the symbol, we should be seeking the quality. Rather than seeking money, we should be seeking to provide value to others. If we succeed in providing value, then the money will come on its own. There will be substance behind the symbol and there you will find contentment.

[Antiventurecapital]

You can do far more good for more people with money than you can without it.

With money, you can start a foundation, create scholarships, or fund the construction of a new hospital or library. The good you can do is almost without limitation.

Without money, you are severely restricted in your choices. About the best you can do is mow your elderly neighbor's lawn.

Read Wattles' book.

[andrew]

Any other solution besides god?

I don't think money itself is what creates happiness, but rather the result of money. If I had 2045995876934 dollars, and couldn't do anything with it, I wouldn't be happy. If i had 0 dollars and could do anything I wanted, I would be happy. Or would I?

It seems to me that happiness is a proccess rather than a state. I'm just throwing this out there as I've just thought about it right now. You don't get to happiness, because once you're happy, it's in the past. Whatever made you happy is in the past, so you need something else to make you happy. Maybe, maybe not, it all depends on what you see as being happy. Are you being happy or are you at happy?

Though maybe I'm mistaking happiness with fun. Fun equals happiness, but happiness does not always equal fun.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by charlottecharade

How many people have gone though the motions of day-to-day living without questioning their purpose for existence? Or perhaps if they have pondered the meaning of life, have they found a sound, legitimate reason for living? Don’t we all have a purpose? Or wouldn’t you like to believe that?

As a busy American, we don't like to do things for no reason. Realistcally, who does something "just because"? There's got to be a motivating factor behind their decision. There's got to be a deeper depth than meets the eye. There's got to be more to life.

We all want more. More money, more fame, more status. Yet once we start to get what we want, we are hardly content. We always want something more. If money can buy practically anything, can it buy happiness?

Perhaps the cliche of "money does not bring happiness" is merely a myth. Perhaps it was started by a rich man who had everything he wanted, and was just having a bad day. Is this statement legitimate?

Say you won the $1,000,000 jackpot. Would you be happy? Most people would not hestitate to admit they would. Sure, a little extra cash on hand would make life a little more comfortable. No one can deny that. So would it be honest to say that once you buy everything you could ever want or need, you are in a material heaven? Materially, you have all you need. However, emotionally you may be running dry.

Money directly effects people's emotions in that it can easily raise a person's instant happiness. A new house, a new car, a new wardrobe. All such things elevate a person's mood. However, it is important to note that these emotion-elevators are temporary. They simply don't last. Possessions come and go. Your physical body comes and goes. Your soul comes and stays.

Your soul, the center of your well-being, is the only thing that will last in the long run. All those years of building up wealth, status, fame, or fortune will seem like pure rubbish on your deathbed. They simply won't matter.

When posed the question of what they want out of life, most people would generally say happiness. Thus, they concluded that their purpose in life is to be happy. They would also agree that money brings happiness. Thus, wouldn't it be logical to say that the pursuit of money is the highway to happiness?

How many times have you heard a man lying on his deathbed, wishing he had clocked in more office hours? We hardly ever, perhaps never, hear a dying person gripe about the fact that their portfolio wasn't big enough. But all they wanted was to be happy! Money itself doesn't mean anything, looking at it from a physical standpoint. It is just a piece of paper. A thin piece of paper with various numbers and symbols on it.

Contrary to popular belief, money does not bring happiness. Instead, I believe that it can sometimes arouse discontentment and a spirit of greed. Money is never enough for people. It may fill a person's physical hole in that it provides them with material possessions, but it does not fill that emotional part of them. And we need both parts filled in order to feel content. We need to be physically and emotionally full.

So why try to fill your infinite well of emotional needs with money, which does not elict the expected emotions of happiness and contentment? If money is not the meaning of life, then what is? Why are we living? Why does it someitmes feel like we are running a futile race in which we havae no finish line? What's our goal in life? If your goal in life is to make big bucks, then good luck. The pursuit of money has no finish line. It is an infinite journey with no destination.

However, if you want something more out of life, if you want to experience a richer stay on earth, turn to something other than money. Turn to God.

God will fill your physical and emotional needs. His love is adequate. His love is infinite. His love is more than enough.

Thanks for the canned sermon.

Lordy, it's her very first post too. She probably posts the same sermon over and over on dozens of boards per day.

[songwriter]

Usually what money brings is... more money. Similar attracts you know. But not happiness. Happiness attracts happiness. And happiness is just being happy with what you have/are/do. If you're happy with the money you have and how have you got it and what you do with him... then it brings happiness, no matter the figure.

[Antiventurecapital]

Most of us have at times clicked into a trance like state wherein we stop thinking and start replaying a tape we have heard before from others who we feel a need to mimic. We have all done it as well as watched our friends do it.

When does it happen? When people are trying hard to convince themselves that something is true. You can almost hear the click and whirrr sounds as the canned lecture begins and the eye contact stops, for to maintain eye contact would break the trance.

The older you get the better you become at spotting this parroting behavior in others and--more importantly--in yourself. I finally got to the point where I can catch myself within seconds of starting "Oh man, there I go again with my old story about X or Y." Then I stop and smile.

Older folks tip you off that a "trance lecture" is coming with phrases such as "Well, in my day things were different...."

[Helena Handbasket]

I lived 2 years as a Peace Corps Volunteer in Togo, West Africa. Only a person with the luxury of never having lived in a giant garbage dump with nothing to eat, no sanitation, and no hope of a way out would have the arrogance to say that money does not provide happiness.

Thank your stars, my lucky friend, that your god saw fit to privilege and and bless you into a life which leads you to the conclusion that turning to God is the simple answer to happiness. Probably 95% of the billions of humans living on this planet are not half as fortunate as you.

[trekr5]

Read this http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:...nk&cd=10&gl=us

It's a link about the 6 human needs. It might help you clarify what you really want out of life

[ethereal]

My friend went to Africa on a medical internship and he noted that the people there seemed a lot happier than most Americans. Go figure

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by ethereal

My friend went to Africa on a medical internship and he noted that the people there seemed a lot happier than most Americans. Go figure

There is a recent international study on happiness which identifies Indians (from India) as the happiest people on earth.

In Africa there are both horrible and beautiful places to live, so it depends on the specific place you are talking about.

My feeling is that true happiness is most strongly related to having a sense of genuine community. "It takes a village" and all that. Having close healthy relationships with an extended family and neighbors is far more important than money or religion. Carl Jung once said that the ideal environment for humans is the hamlet. I believe it.

[renie408]

I have read studies that show that people are pretty much as happy as they are. People who were content before they won the lottery, were just content and rich after they won the lottery. People who considered themselves unhappy before they won the lottery were happy for a period of time after they won the lottery, but within a relatively short period of time became unhappy rich people. This points to emotional satisfaction being internal rather than external in nature.

And while I consider myself an atheist, I have often read that spirituality and participation in religion is a factor in how content a person considers themselves.

All that said, what money allows is freedom. There are experiences that I would like myself and my family to have which will require money. With increased income, we would be free to pursue those things. I think that the analogy of the man on his deathbed bogus. Your dying guy was not happy with or without the money. That had less to do with god, I imagine, and more to do with the way he was raised to view the importance of a work ethic. It is not the amount of time you spend working, but the REASONS you are spending the time. Oprah Winfrey puts in an insane amount of time into her work. And enjoys every minute of it and does fabulous things with her money for herself and for the world at large.

Lastly, being an atheist, I am always amazed at how much more I know about spreading the word of God than the majority of Christians I have the pleasure of encountering seem to know. Even I know that instead of proselytizing, you should let your life be your witness. Instead of chastising people for being venal, why not discuss HOW to find happiness without money? It is easy to say "Money bad!" It is easy to point out how ANYTHING can be bad. God and religion, for instance. Would you like me to offer you a brief history of how belief in god has accounted for more death and suffering in the world than anything else? But that wouldn't be helpful. It would be me puffing myself up at your expense.

Some sincere advice: Don't preach. It doesn't get your actually valid message across and most likely just puts off the very people who most need to hear it.

[Antiventurecapital]

I find myself drawn to happy, vibrant, and positive people. A big part of the reason is that they are not judgmental, preachy, and have no need to feel morally superior to others. They also walk their talk instead of just doing drive-by sermons.

A friend and I were both struck by this exchange between an audience member and Michael Beckwith and James Ray on the second Oprah show about The Secret. The audience member is stuck on judgment issues.

The two exchanges begin at 7:50 and 13:00

Oprah Show

Pay attention to everyone's body language, facial expressions, and energy as you watch.

I know which type of person I would much rather spend my time with.

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by charlottecharade

However, if you want something more out of life, if you want to experience a richer stay on earth, turn to something other than money. Turn to God.

God will fill your physical and emotional needs. His love is adequate. His love is infinite. His love is more than enough.

Hmm.. Is God going to fix my car or pay the rent? There's nothing wrong with money. Overall, money is a Good Thing. I agree with what Steve has said about it -- money provides an easy way to exchange value, and it amplifies a person into being more of what they already are. If someone is greedy they'll be greedy whether they're rich or poor.

It's kind of strange to me that so many people equate money with material possessions. Money is a lot more than that. It gives you freedom, and the ability to make bigger contributions to society. The more money you have the greater the contribution you can make. Personally I care a lot more about that than material possessions that money can buy. And I'm sure that on this forum a lot of people feel the same way.

[Liara Covert]

As a child, I was often fascinated with the resourcefulness and creativeness of children I knew whose families had little money and few toys. These kids came up with really original games, made fantastic tree forts, and developed determination to learn things which discouraged kids who had been born into an easier life. Kids who chose to challenge themselves didn't need money, though some had it.

As I grew older, I was continually inspired by people who were drawn to challenges. Why? They didn't let their circumstances control them or hold them back. Instead, they were able to nurture an imagination that helped them create visions to work toward. This only cost them their time. Skills they learned as children taught them to find ways to realize dreams. They already knew more than one option exists to get to where you wish to go.

If you seek money in life, this doesn't necessarily make you materialistic. You may benefit from learning how people with little resources can and do astonishing things to become financially successful. I would recommend "You Have 3 Minutes!"
Amazon.com: You Have Three Minutes! Learn the Secret of the Pitch from Trump's Original Apprentice: Books: Ricardo Bellino

You may have heard of rich people not knowing what to do with their money. Some of them have the "with what" otherwise known as "the how," but they may not always have clear ideas "why."

Baltar makes a great point that contributions to society do come in different sizes. Yet, why do many people seem so convinced that the "biggest" or "best" contributions necessarily need money? Money does have exchange value, and if you have it, you can do things people without it can't. Yet, donating time and compassion can mean far more. If you look at individuals who truly make a difference in the lives of others around the world, they don't seek to boast or quantify numbers, and the vast majority give of themselves. That's something money doesn't usually buy.

[ethereal]

A table from Truth vs. Falsehood by Dr. Hawkins:

Consciousness___Unemployment___Poverty____Happines s Rate___Criminality
Level

600+ ______________0%_____________0%____________100%___ ______0%
500-600____________0%_____________0%____________98%___ ______0.5%
400-500____________2%____________.5%____________79%___ ________2%
300-400____________7%____________1.0%____________70%__ ________5%
200-300____________8%____________1.5%____________60%__ ________9%
100-200___________50%____________22%____________15%___ ______50%
50-100____________75%____________40%____________2%___ _______91%
50-_______________97%____________65%____________0%___ _______98%

Looks about right to me

[natopoto11]

Originally Posted by charlottecharade

What do you guys think is a source for happiness?

Finding value in something.

I think the point that you were trying to make earlier is that money is not lasting, so to try to obtain value from something that doesn't last is pointless. On the other hand God is eternal and lasting, so it is much better to find your value in him.

I suggest reading Ecclesiastes in the Bible. In there Solomon talks about how he found money, power, etc to be pointless and how he found value in God.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by natopoto11

Finding value in something.


I suggest reading Ecclesiastes in the Bible. In there Solomon talks about how he found money, power, etc to be pointless and how he found value in God.

There are some dumb things to be found in that book. The above is one example. I marvel at the good works of people such as Bill & Melinda Gates and Warren Buffet. Good people use money to do even more good; bad people use money to do more bad. Money is just a tool. Would you call a saw or a hammer evil?

Personally, I would love to be able to fund scholarships for poor but gifted students at home and open up computer schools for kids in Africa.

Unfortunately, much of the bible is geared toewards nothing more than keeping the impoverished masses as docile as sheep. "Don't worry about the injustice and inequity in this life as you will be rewarded with an eternity on a puffy cloud in the next if you just toe the party line."

Good grief. The stuff some people swallow.

[Erki]

Money is useful, but one shouldn't make his/her whole life about money and more money. There should be something behind that money as well.

[celeste]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

Unfortunately, much of the bible is geared toewards nothing more than keeping the impoverished masses as docile as sheep. "Don't worry about the injustice and inequity in this life as you will be rewarded with an eternity on a puffy cloud in the next if you just toe the party line."

Good grief. The stuff some people swallow.

With all respect, I don't appreciate your sarcasm, Antiventurecapital. Maybe you don't believe in the Bible and maybe it isn't applicable to you. But other people believe in it.

I personally do, and I have found that it helps me grow in life. It is true that Christians will be rewarded in eternity according to how we live their life on earth. So the point you were trying to make about the "impoverished masses as docile as sheep" doesn't mean that they don't have a voice. It is merely an encouragement for the "less fortunate" people, saying that they have something to look forward to when they die. They may not have much of a "voice" or "influence" now, but what counts is how they choose to use the resources/abilities that they presently have. Life here on earth isn't everything, it is just a prelude to our life ahead.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by celeste

With all respect, I don't appreciate your sarcasm, Antiventurecapital. Maybe you don't believe in the Bible and maybe it isn't applicable to you. But other people believe in it.

I personally do, and I have found that it helps me grow in life. It is true that Christians will be rewarded in eternity according to how we live their life on earth. So the point you were trying to make about the "impoverished masses as docile as sheep" doesn't mean that they don't have a voice. It is merely an encouragement for the "less fortunate" people, saying that they have something to look forward to when they die. They may not have much of a "voice" or "influence" now, but what counts is how they choose to use the resources/abilities that they presently have. Life here on earth isn't everything, it is just a prelude to our life ahead.

Well, let's hope they stop canceling the Rapture. Damn thing has been postponed at least 21 centuries in a row.

I was really hoping that it would come at the last turn of the century. Really hoping. The sooner it comes the better, AFAIC.

[Dani]

Originally Posted by celeste

With all respect, I don't appreciate your sarcasm, Antiventurecapital. Maybe you don't believe in the Bible and maybe it isn't applicable to you. But other people believe in it.

I personally do, and I have found that it helps me grow in life. It is true that Christians will be rewarded in eternity according to how we live their life on earth. So the point you were trying to make about the "impoverished masses as docile as sheep" doesn't mean that they don't have a voice. It is merely an encouragement for the "less fortunate" people, saying that they have something to look forward to when they die. They may not have much of a "voice" or "influence" now, but what counts is how they choose to use the resources/abilities that they presently have. Life here on earth isn't everything, it is just a prelude to our life ahead.

There are some good points in the bible, and some helpful to growth. But that doesn't necessarily mean the whole thing is true.

For example the bible fully endorses slavery and the oppression of women.

Most people would dismiss those sections as being 'related to the times' and then start to pick the pieces that still apply. Well, if humans are allowed to decide what is still the word of god and what isn't, then it isn't the bible you believe. But you.


But to answer the original question.

Freedom brings me happiness, and to be in constant state of creation and challenge.

To be making useful things and contributing to others and to myself.

I ask a counter question. What is it about god that make you so happy? What do you do with him that you enjoy?

Whenever I hear a sermon like this I feel like AntiVC said, that the people preaching it are usually just trying to convince themselves of it. Because most of them rarely seem truly happy with their own life. So try to convince themselves they are happy by trying to get other people to come and 'feel happy' with them.

They seem to just be 'killing time' until they die so the can go to heaven where the 'happiness' is.

Your comment about the death bed is partially true. I would hazard a guess that no almost one has died wishing they had enjoyed their life less and worked more.

But I would counter that with I would be confident guessing that about the same number of people died saying 'I wish I had gone to church more' on their death bed.

Most people regret not enjoying their life. But just because they regret working too hard and not living life doesn't automatically mean that god is what they regret...

Most religions are virtually 'anti enjoying life' anyway. They tell you to constantly deprive yourself more and more, and to punish yourself and feel guilty whenever you don't do exactly what a more than 2,000 year old book says.

If we read a book written 2k years ago telling us about any other subject, we would chuckle at the simplicity and stupidity of these people. A book on medicine, or healthy living, or the earth being flat!

I mean c'mon, these guys couldn't work out that Planet was round, but you are claiming that somehow the one and only subject they got right was the best way to live your life? (except for this bit, and this bit and this bit of course. Aka the xxx edition bibles.)

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by Dani

There are some good points in the bible, and some helpful to growth. But that doesn't necessarily mean the whole thing is true.

For example the bible fully endorses slavery and the oppression of women.

Most people would dismiss those sections as being 'related to the times' and then start to pick the pieces that still apply. Well, if humans are allowed to decide what is still the word of god and what isn't, then it isn't the bible you believe. But you.

Someone posted this elsewhere:

In MT 16:28, MK 9:1, LK 9:27 Jesus says that some of his listeners will not taste death before he comes again in his kingdom. This was said almost 2000 years ago. This and many other passages indicate that Jesus was to come again in a relatively short period of time and not just "quickly" as present day Biblicists assert. All of his contemporaries are now long dead, yet Jesus has not come again in his kingdom. All of the alleged words of Jesus recorded in the Bible are therefore suspect.

Since then various Xian cults have predicted innumerable dates for the Rapture/Second Coming, all of which have come and gone. It's a real life Waiting for Godot.

Just how many times does something have to be canceled before you finally wake up to the reality that it's not coming???

[Nelson]

Ok to stay on topic here - happiness. It's all in your head. Any person at any point in time can choose to be happy. That's because we are happy when we are grateful. We are unhappy when we complain and bring negativity to a situation.

I focus on the little things. I am blessed, anyone who is on this Earth is. Not just Americans.

Most people build up happines in there mind too much. You may say in your head "when I have $XXXXXXXX I will be happy, the day I make $XXXXXXXX will be a good day." But you have the choice of changing that. You can say to yourself, as I do(which by the way is taken from an Anthony Robbins course), "Every day above ground is a good day!"

Then once you've set your mind to believeing that everyday your body is above the ground is a good day all you have to do in the morning is look at your feet. Are they above ground? Then you are alive! You're much more fortunate then the billions of dead people, right?

Gradually throughout the day I become more grateful for my life and my surrondings. I am happy that I have a family that loves me, that I was born with all my fingers and toes, that I live in America. That I can live in ahouse that most of the world would consider a well furnished mansion. I am happy that I have all the knowledge of the world at my fingertips.

You choose to be happy. Not me, not God, not your parents - YOU.

[celeste]

Originally Posted by Dani

I ask a counter question. What is it about God that make you so happy? What do you do with him that you enjoy?

I have a number of reasons of why God makes me happy. The main dominant reason is that he gives me a peace and contentment I can find from no other.

I've pursued a number of things in life, searching for the true meaning of happiness. Being a girl, I was once on the role for the "perfect body." I exercised excessively, cut back on my calories, and became underweight. I believed the myth that if you are thin you are happy. I was never content with myself, I figured that if I was even skinnier, I would look better and be happier. I bought into that myth and discovered that it was a lie.

At one point in my life, I was obsessed with making money. I was always trying to find ways to earn more money. Whatever I got was never enough. I realized that it was a hollow game that I could never win. I was not trying to earn X amount of dollars. I just wanted more money. What I had was never enough. Essentially, this pursuit burned me out because it has no end.

So, I turned to relationships. Everyone wants to feel loved and accepted by others. I thought that having a boyfriend would solve all those problems. I figured that if someone loved me, I would feel happy, content, and accepted. Sure, I experienced all those feelings, but then I began to question if there was something more. I felt loved and wanted, but there was still something inside of me thirsty for something more. I couldn't lay a finger on what it exactly was. But all I knew was that I was frusterated, restless, and hungry for something more.

The ironic thing was, in my mind, I had absolutely everything! I was going to a costly private school, had a boyfriend, had a group of close girl friends, lived in a large house, got all the clothes/material possessions I basically wanted, and had my college future all mapped out. I was puzzled. If I have everything, what more could I possibly want? I'm in no way saying that I wasn't happy or appreciative of what I had. I did appreciate the people who helped enrich my life and the possessions that helped make my life more comfortable. However, I knew that something was missing in my life. I turned to numerous avenues and realized that they weren't giving me ALL that I wanted. Sure, they filled a majority of me, but I still felt empty inside.

Take an example of a celebrity. They have all the material possessions, the famous connections, and anything money or fame could buy. Yet not all of them are happy. Truly happy.

I was happy. But I was not truly happy. At this point, I realized what I was missing. It was someone I had ignored for countless years. That someone was God. God gives me a contentment and happiness I can't describe. The happiness I get from him is not a fleeting feeling from certain circumstances; it is a deep feeling of contentment. Joy. I can be happy in him, knowing that he is watching over me and can see my future. When I have worries, I give them up to him, knowing that he knows the best for me. That relieves a load of stress right there.

I no longer felt empty inside. God filled me peace and contentment that I couldn't find anywhere else. I love that fact that I can pray to him any time of the day, and that I don't have to go to a certain temple to talk to him. He accepts anyone. He accepted me, faults and all. He loves everyone, even if they reject him. I believe if people give him a chance, he will make himself known to them. Not physically, because God does not have a physical body. He works in people's hearts. He definitely worked in my heart, filling up my emptiness with a peace and contentment that I found from no other.

...

Here's a testimony I thought was pretty remarkable: THE MORNING GOD BECAME REAL!

[Antiventurecapital]

A most excellent post, Nelson.

The wisest throughout history have always advised people to make the most of their lives and to treat each day as if it could be one's last. This attitude makes perfect sense because all we have with any certainty is the "now". What's that old saying about today being cash in the hand, while yesterday is a canceled check, and tomorrow is but a promissory note?

After you have been around for a few decades, you realize that religion is constantly evolving despite protests to the contrary. For example, when I was very young back in the 60s and 70s, the church taught that heaven and hell were real places. Now there's a movement to reinterpret them as states of mind that you find yourself in here on earth. It was Vatican II that first introduced this interpretation a few decades ago. Now some mainstream Protestant churches are adopting this viewpoint as all. For support, they point to the recent discovery that the Aramaic word which was originally translated as "hell" was actually referring to a physical dump site outside of Jerusalem.

More interestingly, the word "sin" has been reinterpreted as meaning "to miss one's mark" in life. To miss one's mark is to not make the most of your life, to not use your talents to their fullest, and to not appreciate your time here, if I understand correctly.

On a gut level, this interpretation rings true for me.

This is why I find the saddest people on earth to be the ones impatiently waiting for the rapture or second coming to arrive and end it all. Writer David Korten tells of hearing a fundamentalist on a radio talk show describe her life as nothing more "than a brief layover in a cheap motel."

The people who have been hoodwinked into believing this are the ones guilty of the sin of "missing the mark."

[celeste]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

More interestingly, the word "sin" has been reinterpreted as meaning "to miss one's mark" in life. To miss one's mark is to not make the most of your life, to not use your talents to their fullest, and to not appreciate your time here, if I understand correctly.

On a gut level, this interpretation rings true for me.

This is why I find the saddest people on earth to be the ones impatiently waiting for the rapture or second coming to arrive and end it all. Writer David Korten tells of hearing a fundamentalist on a radio talk show describe her life as nothing more "than a brief layover in a cheap motel."

The people who have been hoodwinked into believing this are the ones guilty of the sin of "missing the mark."

I have a different opinion on this. Yes, it is true, that the definition of sin is "missing the mark." That depends on what standard you are measuring up to. If you are measuring up to your own personal standard of what you want out of life, then what you said makes sense. Not living life to the fullest would be missing the mark. Missing the mark essentially means hitting below the "ideal life" you are aiming for.

However, from a Biblical view, "missing the mark" means acting below God's standard. God is sinless. His standard is perfection, which is impossible to attain. Thus, sinning would translate to anything that does not measure up to God's standard, which is perfection. Us humans are not capable of perfection. We can be good people no doubt, but not absolutely, 100% perfect.

This is where the definition of sin differs. It's all about what you are measuring up to. "Missing the mark" is hitting below the standard, whether it be your own personal goal or God's idea of perfection.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by celeste

I have a different opinion on this.

There is no personal standard for "sin", by definition. Either you have sinned or you haven't. A higher power decides. It's not for the individual to decide whether they have sinned or not. It goes without saying, that I provided the emerging religious reinterpretation of sin. To be clear, this reinterpretation is actually the original interpretation. Biblical scholars are continously identifying mistranslations. Woe onto him that taketh the bible literally.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

There is no personal standard for "sin", by definition. Either you have sinned or you haven't. A higher power decides. It's not for the individual to decide whether they have sinned or not. It goes without saying, that I provided the emerging religious reinterpretation of sin. To be clear, this reinterpretation is actually the original interpretation. Biblical scholars are continously identifying mistranslations. Woe onto him that taketh the bible literally.

In the secular world, the concept of "sin" does not compute.

People make mistakes, they lie, cheat, steal, kill, and do other nasty things which call for a showing of remorse and as well as societal punishment, but there is no such thing as "sin".

[celeste]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

There is no personal standard for "sin", by definition. Either you have sinned or you haven't. A higher power decides. It's not for the individual to decide whether they have sinned or not. It goes without saying, that I provided the emerging religious reinterpretation of sin. To be clear, this reinterpretation is actually the original interpretation. Biblical scholars are continously identifying mistranslations. Woe onto him that taketh the bible literally.

I am not saying that we PERSONALLY decide whether we have sinned or not. We have all sinned, I understand that. We have all missed the mark of perfection; nothing will change that.

Earlier you said:

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

"the word "sin" has been reinterpreted as meaning "to miss one's mark" in life. To miss one's mark is to not make the most of your life, to not use your talents to their fullest, and to not appreciate your time here, if I understand correctly."

I don't know whether you believe that view or not, but the Bible differs from that, as I said in my previous post.

So essentially, if we have all "sinned" in not "living life to the fullest", have we thus not attained true happiness? Adding to that, is it then possible to attain happiness DESPITE the fact that we have all sinned, which means we are unable to attain that certain standard?