not-so-hot for college

[Erasmus]

Well, maybe you've all heard this before, or something similar...but anyways, I'm a senior in highschool. And I have my list of schools I'll be applying to...but I just feel apathetic about the whole thing.

I wonder if I could be doing something more productive, instead of sitting in school for another four years. I ask myself what I want to really do, and I just see myself wandering through America, and Europe. Maybe productive isnt the right word, what I mean is that I could spending my life in a more personally meaningful way than hitting the books.

My parents, everyone, has been beating into my head that I need to go to school (mostly cuz my parents never did, I think), and that if I dont I'll be poor and fail in life. And very upset with me. Perhaps its me, because I want to be wealthy, but I dont want to sit in school. I dont want to ever have a job.....at least none of the jobs my parents have in mind (lawyer, doctor, etc). I want to start my own business(es). I have two ideas now actually. I also want to be able to act on stage, write, and draw when I want.

But if I dont go to college, what do I do? I cant imagine telling my parents that I'm not going. I dont want to be dependant on them for more than two months after I'm 18.

Maybe my mistake is a lack of perspective? But that's why I'm here, hopefully to glimpse other perspectives. Maybe I feel apathetic because of my living conditions, and so that feeling just spills over into everything else, because I have the impression that being in college will be as stultifying as living at home and highschool.

Honestly, I dont want to go to college. I dont want to go. But I feel its the only choice, because I wont have any other means for living after I'm 18 (I have no money of my own, my parents wont let me have a job..."school first"), and being in college would be a way of buying time. Maybe I resist simply because everyone's beating me over the head with it, and I'm sick of the whole idea....really I'd just like to here you thoughts and opinions.

I dont want to work for another person, ever, if I can help it. So if the only reason for going is to get a better paycheck from someone...I think I'd rather not. But! I would go for the sake of learning itself, not a degree. But I want to do more than just school for the next four years.

Why not both? I dont know. Maybe this is contradictory, I'm not reading over anything I'm writing...kinda tired today. So...go to school, and take it for what its worth, and in my spare time, go out in the world and do my thing. And really, picking a major will be difficult, because my interests are vast. Why does one have to major?

I'll stop now, before I go off topic.

[firesign]

What do you mean your parents won't "let you" get a job? You're eighteen.

[Erasmus]

Originally Posted by firesign

What do you mean your parents won't "let you" get a job? You're eighteen.

No, I'm seventeen, I guess I should've specified. I wont be eighteen for eight months or so. A few weeks after I graduate.

[firesign]

Oops, that was my fault for misreading.

Well, I guess I have a similar experience. I turned 18 a few weeks before I graduated this June. I recently got a retail job with no intentions whatsoever of going to college but no intention of working for someone else for the rest of my life, either. Do you have something you'd like to be doing? I would get a start on that right away. Get to be good at something before you have to start paying for your own food and shelter...because when that time comes, you might have to get a 9-5. But you'll have alternate streams of income(you know, like Steve Pavlina suggests) and it will make it easier. If those streams get to be large enough then maybe you can quit your job.

I'm not really in any place to give you advice, though. So I don't know why you'd listen to me.

(oh, and have you read those "similar threads" that are at the bottom of the page? Might help)

[Erasmus]

Whoa, I never knew the similar threads were there! hehe, I never scrolled down that far. But good to know...and its nice to know I'm not the only one.

No, its good to here from someone who is going through something similar and knowing what you have chosen. Good point with the "alternate streams". I could probably have a "normal" job, if I knew it was temporary.

I have things I'm good at, its just a bit hard to start building something off that when you have no support from the people who pay for everything...ugh, that's something I really hate about being a legal minor. It feels like they own me.

Anyways, thanks. I do appreciate the input. If there's a will, there's a way!

[ChaosKiwi]

First off college is not the same as high-school. You'll meet new people, try new things and gain some independence.

Challenging your parents while you are dependent on them is a recipe for failure. I could go into details but from personal experience just don't do it.

If you are very experienced in something you could try starting a business. But if you have no skills, starting a business is very hard and stressful. Like yourself I never wanted to have a job. I'm now 24, in a bad economy with little work experience. I now feel that not working for someone else is something that needs to be earned through experience and hardwork. The sense of entitlement and "your a winner for trying" attitude that many young people are raised on doesn't work in the real world.

If your parents are paying for it, I would apply to a college away from your home town and take classes in acting, writing and drawing in the first year (if possible) while simultaneously getting work experience through volunteering or part time work in something with high demand. At the end of that first year I would then either continue on with college if I had found something I was interested in or drop out and get a job with the work experience I had gained.

If you are getting a student loan I'm not sure what you should do, perhaps do the above on a much shorter timeline?

I think a big part of the challenge that faces you is perspective. With you current perspective college will most probably suck. You do have the power to change it though.

Good luck

[Lioness]

Honestly, I dont want to go to college. I dont want to go

.

Why, exactly? Are you afraid of something? Or do you simply want to get away from a structured learning environment and do your own thing for a while? I feel you need to identify all the reasons why you are so against going to college, and then discuss them, calmly, not confrontationally, with your parents.

Be forewarned, a young daughter wandering around the globe by herself is the not a situation your parents are likely to embrace. You need a plan. Your school most likely has a guidance counselor. Speak with this person about the possibilities of doing some kind of independent work-study, or taking off for a year. I remember someone who did this. She was accepted into an Ivy league school but took a year off between high school and college.

In my infinite wisdom, I quit school before I'd done a year, convinced I could get a headstart on earning a living. I've regretted that many times over as young college grads jump over me in promotions and earn far more money with far more interesting jobs. In this economy, the value of higher education can't be dismissed.

I also want to be able to act on stage, write, and draw when I want.

There are plenty of colleges/universities that have excellent theater/drama and fine arts programs. What can it hurt to develop your skills? You don't have to commit to 4 years. You can try it for a semester and see how it goes. Except for a couple of mandatory courses, you can take whatever classes you want. Even if you have to declare a major, it is certainly not set in stone. Why not explore the possibilities on your parent's dime before you venture out into the cruel world?

[YourHumbleNarrator]

Have you tried talking with your parents about taking a year off? Not to do nothing, but to get a job and do volunteer work and explore your interests etc? It's a really good idea to take a break whether you decide to go to college or not. If you can get your hands on it, I'd highly recommend this book: Amazon.com: Success Without College: Why Your Child May Not Have to Go to College Right Now--and May Not Have to Go At All (9780767905718): Linda Lee: Books

In the end, it's your life and your choice. You don't have to go to school, and if you're set on not going you're gonna have to be honest about it. It might be hard dealing with your parents, but being that you're underage and still at home with them you'd need their permission to get a job and you're going to want to get a job ASAP if you mean to be independent once you're legal. Failing that, see if there's anything you can set up through the internet, or if you can grab some odd-jobs around your community, or get paid under the table by someone looking for help. (In my experience, the latter is better than traditional jobs. People who will deal with you directly and pay you in cash tend to be more respectful toward you and more flexible in their demands.) There's a number of ways you can set yourself up real nice with or without your parent's cooperation. While I don't outright promote dishonesty, this is your life we're talking about. You have to make your own choices, and if you can't get your parents to cooperate with you and see things from your perspective you'll need to figure out how you can pursue your aims while still under their roof.

Regardless of where you end up, this is a time for soul searching. It sounds like you've already got a fair idea of what you want to do with your life, which is more than most your age can say, the question is how you're going to get there. You've got plenty of options, college is only one of them. I can't blame you for thinking otherwise since it's pounded into our skulls from childhood onward that if you wanna be somebody you're gonna have to stay in school for a good four years to a decade after you graduate. I say educate yourself on the other options that are available to you and look at college as though it's one of many valid paths, even if you don't know what those other paths are yet.

It's important that you feel like it's your choice. If it's not, then there is no point in going, not even to buy time. "Buying time" is just another word for procrastination. If you need soul searching, soul search. If you think college would help with that, go. If you think going to college would take the pressure off while you work on your ideas, fine. But buying time? You don't sound like you need that. It sounds like what you need is integrity-internal integrity-and courage. Ultimately it doesn't matter what your parents think or what anybody has to say, you're responsible for your success. As the pilot, where are you going to steer yourself?

[FazK]

There are a million things you could do besides college, why don't you travel start a business or do charity work as an alternative to college. Remember it's your life and as someone said above me your are 18 and if push comes to shove there is nothing that your parents can really do about it

[SomeRandomGuy]

I would suggest talking to your parents about the situation. It sounds like, however, you may be in a situation where you either have to go to college, or stop being dependent upon your parents. If you truly have no desire to go to college, I would suggest not going. Although that likely means getting a job, which you also do not want to do, moving out and supporting yourself. That can be a daunting prospect, and going to college would probably be much easier.

[ar81]

Do you want to travel without challenging your parents?
Try flying to space at home
Orbiter - A free space flight simulator

Not having education is a ticket to poverty.
Just finish your education, then do whatever you want.
Later, having education would be harder, so seize the opportunity, even if it involves some sacrifice. Think long term.

[Lupe]

you could join the Navy, they travel a lot.

you could become a manual laborer like this person, who escaped from white collar trap: Blue Collar Independent Scholar « Unconventional Ideas

[Mafistos]

Hey, Erasmus, I completely understand how you feel.

I felt the same way when I graduated high school. I only looked at 2 colleges and I really didn't care. I don't want to be in college. I made myself go because I knew it's something that I had to do. I'm in my first year of college right now. It's very lonely and unstimulating. All my friends moved away to colleges. I went to a community college because the state has a program called NJ Starz that allows certain kids to go for free. My parents can't afford to pay for a better college and I don't want student loans on my back forever. Plus I wanted to stay close so I can be with my boyfriend.

I too, aspire to be a writer. In fact, I'm working on a novel right now while going to school. Like you I do not want to work or have the feeling of "working for someone." I started out at a grocery store and I feel they completely took advantage of my hard work. I had way too much responsibility there for just a cashier--a server or the public, a place where customers were nasty almost all the time. I moved on to a small boarding home for the mentally ill. I work there on weekends and it's a much more fulfilling job than cashiering.

Listen, don't cheat yourself out of an education because I know how you feel. I completely understand. It's just that in this world it's what you need to make your way (unless your amazingly talented at something). Go to college and take many electives in writing. THAT will help you and mean something to you. Don't go to college because your parents want you to either. It's YOUR life. I started working at 17. These are necessary sacrifices--short term suffering for long-term happiness. These are just things you need to do. Like I said, it's your life, but if you don't choose to educate yourself or get a job you will most definately be dependant upon your parents, or even in a worse enviroment.

Hope that helps.
Anjelica

[ar81]

Originally Posted by Lupe

you could join the Navy, they travel a lot.

The difference is that parents give orders and you may obey or not.
But in the Navy you obey or face court martial.

[Cochonette]

Erasmus, your attitude reminds me so much of myself a few years ago. When I was in high school, I was very depressed, hated my school where I didn't learn anything, hated my family, hated myself, hated life. I thought about running off to Africa as a volunteer or something. Didn't think I could ever get into a college worth going to. If it was a college the people I knew went to, it must not be good enough because I didn't like those people and they weren't ambitious except to make money or look good. Had no idea how to get a job, didn't want any of the jobs I knew I could get like working at a fast food restaurant or a store.

But then something happened... since my teachers adored me, they helped me raise $7000 to go to a month-long summer program at Oxford University. That was a university I thought I'd like to go to but could never get in. Anyway, I went there and had a BLAST. I didn't want to leave. Felt I could stay forever. But most of those kids had gone to or were currently attending great high schools, many private schools. For all of them, college was a given. I learned that they were all intending to apply to several colleges/universities at least. I found that, unlike people at my high school, these people cared about learning, were educated, even were open-minded politically. The teachers were awesome. I just knew that this was where I wanted to be. So I always tell people that before I went to that program, I didn't want to go to college. It changed my life! I ended up applying to six colleges/unis and got into four of them, two of the ones I got into being my "reach" colleges.

At first I was still depressed, but within my first year, college made a huge reversal on my life, bringing me out of a 3-year-long depression. It wasn't even my classes that did it, but my roommate. Just surrounding myself by amazing people who cared about the world and me has had limitless profound effects on my life.

I love my classes, too, though. It may take you a couple of semesters or more, but you'll eventually find classes you really enjoy if you're looking for them.

College is a time and place of many opportunities, especially if you make the effort to go to a decent college. I have been able to discover Zen (which changed my life), make friends and meet people I truly loved (for the first time in my life, and also who changed my life), check out many interesting organizations, go to all kinds of events that have enriched my life in small ways, learn how to organize a campaign in class, organized and ran a vegan campaign all by myself, trained Aikido, been president of an organization (Aikido club), networked with amazing people, gotten an internship thanks to my college résumé, learned some amount of independence (I never go home to live with family), learned a lot about how to write and think critically, learned so much about the world, joined the campus meditation center, etc. If any of that sounds like what you might be interested in, maybe you should rethink your (non-)desire for college.

By the way, I have completed my first two years of college and am now taking a semester off to work on some basic things in my life. That's another thing. You could take a semester or year off before starting college if you want a break from school. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound like you really know what you want to do that you're capable of doing right out of high school. If you're going to take a year or even few years off, I hope you have a plan and do it meaningfully. Some amazing people like Einstein and Bill Gates dropped out of school, but I'm sure they knew exactly what they were doing.

There's a woman who comes to the meditation center here and works at the uni... she said after high school she took like a year of college, dropped out, went backpacking through Europe till she was about 28, and then suddenly realized she was "wasting" her life, went back to school and now has a Ph.D. and works at one of the top universities in the U.S. That was very inspiring to me as someone who enjoyed school but needed a break.

[Andrew Brunelle]

You don't need college to be successful in the world. I dropped out of college over 3 years ago. I hated it. It was completely pointless and my two cousins who just graduated got jobs that hardly pay better than the jobs they had before. College is becoming more and more a pyramid scheme and less and less about education. It's about getting so far into debt before you even start your life, unless you can get through it for free with academdic/athletic scholarships. My brother goes to a well-respected college for free and just did an internship in Washington DC and got paid for it. If you can get there for free, it will look good to employers, but I wouldn't recommend getting into debt like I did just to have a degree, which I ended up not getting because I realized the life I want to live will not be the socially conditioned one, so why should I keep being educated when I can learn on my own for basically free and learn about what is useful to me, not what the cirriculum says is important.

But to each thier own. For some people, college is valuable for a future career, but for those who strive to be free and to think for themselves, put off college a year or more and see if it really is what you want, or what your parents want you to do.

[Cochonette]

Depends what college you go to, Andrew, and if it's suited to you. I love my university. Yeah, it's more conventional than I'd like, but there's plenty of room for free-thinking. It's one of the most expensive unis in the country, but I go for under $2000 per academic year and don't take out loans. I am actually taking a semester off in part because, as you said, there's so much one can learn for free. But if you find the right professors, you'll learn things and skills in class that you'll probably have a really hard time finding help with outside of college (at least I know I would). I would've never learned how to run a campaign without taking a class. I did need time off to study things on my own and learn more about my own interests, but ultimately I know there's so much to learn from people who've been around the academic/intellectual block. Plus, there are so many jobs I'm interested in that list as their first requirement that you have a Bachelor's degree. I've been trying to find a job in my time off, and it can be hard.

By the way, if you really want to start a business, you might want to start off - nonetheless - working for someone else. Network with people who know what they're doing, who are doing what you want to be doing, and ask questions. And do lots of online research in this area. You might still find there's a lot of stuff regarding that that you'd like to go to school for.

[Erasmus]

Thanks for all of the input. I am still contemplating all of this...

Funny thing is I used to be perfectly happy with the idea of going to college, a year ago, until I found out that some people just leave and backpack through Europe, sometimes staying permanantly. I just felt really depressed because suddenly I felt like like I had NO idea what I wanted to do.

It's hard to say no, because my school really puts on the pressure (I go to a private catholic school...) and makes it feel like (tho I know its not the case) that if you dont apply now you're screwed.

I like the idea of a gap year, then I would have more time to actually decide what I really want. I had suggested it a while back when I still lived with my mom (I live in a different state with my dad and brother now), but my parents just complained that I'd probably wouldnt bother going to school at all. I make my own choices for what I ultimately want, and I'm not the kind to do anything someone tells me to do just because they said so...it's just that everytime I bring up anything to my parents they are exceedingly negative, and project their own feelings of failure and disappointment onto my life and dreams. That's why I dont tell them about anything anymore, unless its necessary...and in this case, it is very much so, obviously.

And having a job isnt so bad that I'd rather starve than get one...I wouldnt work in a grocery store or burger joint tho, if I could help it. What would an example of an under-the-table job be? (I feel kinda naive for having to ask, but whatever) I have been contemplating some odd jobs...like graveyard caretaker...or butler. Or go be a character at disneyland or Knott's Berry Farm. Or work on a cruiseship....there are a billion things.

I would want to go to college for an education, not to get a higher paying job...I dont know, this is something that will need thought. Thanks again, everybody

[Cochonette]

Erasmus, it's not about getting a higher paying job, but about getting the job you really want. And if you really care about a high-quality education, you might find that the job you want requires a college degree.

And I totally understand the parents projecting fears and failures and disappointments onto you. My mom did that ALL the time, and it made me feel helpless. According to her, nothing I wanted to do mattered because all I needed to do to "enjoy myself" was what she thought was right. According to her, it wasn't worth money to spend time in a monastery.... when I actually did it, I found it to be lifechanging.

[Scipio]

I suggest the book Skip College and Go Into Business Yourself. No I do not sell this book, but I found it very eye opening.

This is your life here, so I suggest you read all the *good* opinions that you can. Get a book on the benefits of college too.

CanaryIslandsPress - Skip College - Go Into Business For Yourself

And check out this free site. It shows you how to get a degree in the shortest time for the least money, at an accredited university. If you just need that degree as a "peice of paper" for entry into other things, look at this route:

http://www.lowestcostcolleges.com/

[ginkgo]

If you are a woman, you have a 1 in 4 chance of being raped in college. If you are a man, I know a guy who has been doing construction ever since he graduated high school.

He says many college graduates are getting into construction just like he did. There is a high demand and high pay for this. More and more men are getting blue collar jobs and women are getting white collar jobs.

Author Daniel Quinn says that college (not trade schools or specific schools like computer school) are to keep younger people out of the work force so the older people have less competition for getting a job. A college graduate learns how to do his job when he gets it.

There are co-op colleges that have you work 6 months and go to school for 6 months a year so you graduate college with experience in their major. Nurse students were guaranteed that there would always be a high demand for them. Now many are graduating and cannot find a job as a nurse.

For 2,990,000 years people did not have jobs since there was no money. Ten thousand years ago they started locking up food and creating a need for money. Then they started acting like people have always done this. Quinn says that this new (10,000 years old) system is not working since you have all this depression and crime that did not exist before that. Everyone lived in tribes and took care of each other.

In the tribes no one was forced to do anything but were eager to help out since they wanted to help out their family (tribe). A distortion of this is the gang. Here are unusual ways to make money. You can sell your blood and if you are a man, you can sell your sperm. If you are a women, you can sell your eggs.

Here is an exercise to help you. Imagine that you just won $100 million dollars. What would you do with your life? Try to do that now. Would you lose it gambling or just sit around smoking pot? If so then y ou have some bigger problems.

[Cochonette]

Author Daniel Quinn says that college (not trade schools or specific schools like computer school) are to keep younger people out of the work force so the older people have less competition for getting a job.

That's one of the wackiest ignorant things I've ever heard. Some old people just one day decided, "Hey, why don't we invent professors so younger people won't steal our jobs?!"